Helminth ability values....

[(PSN)PoKerZ2017]

Holy crap... Defy is capped at 750 armor and Dispensary is 12 seconds 

 

DE what are you smoking 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I thought it was going to be worse than that

[(PSN)Kaiser_Rebellion]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

Holy crap... Defy is capped at 750 armor and Dispensary is 12 seconds 

 

DE what are you smoking 

I believe that’s the unmodded value

[jam2see]

At 200% duration thats still 24 seconds, thats still quite a good amount of energy.

[PopGligor]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

Holy crap... Defy is capped at 750 armor and Dispensary is 12 seconds 

 

That's exactly why they nerfed them. Because the entire community would flock to 3 skills, when you have so many others that open up interesting builds, and that's the point of the system. If they released it in a state where 3 abilities dominate, it would be dead on arrival. And it's not even that these abilities are so objectively good, cuz they're not. It's that the community immediately got tunnel-visioned into them. The nerfs are good.
 

[(PSN)PoKerZ2017]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb PopGligor:

That's exactly why they nerfed them. Because the entire community would flock to 3 skills, when you have so many others that open up interesting builds, and that's the point of the system. If they released it in a state where 3 abilities dominate, it would be dead on arrival. And it's not even that these abilities are so objectively good, cuz they're not. It's that the community immediately got tunnel-visioned into them. The nerfs are good.
 

Ah yes butchering usefull abilities so that everything sucks is totally a good thing instead of buffing the other abilities that suck. Now instead of more choice, there's even less. 

[Tonin4ABonin]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

Holy crap... Defy is capped at 750 armor and Dispensary is 12 seconds 

 

DE what are you smoking 

Unmodded value, what are YOU smoking

[PopGligor]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

Ah yes butchering usefull abilities so that everything sucks is totally a good thing instead of buffing the other abilities that suck. Now instead of more choice, there's even less. 

People like you are the reason for the nerf. Those who think only 3 abilities are good, and everything else sucks. That's simply not the case, mate. There's so many good abilities in this list that open up interesting builds

[(PSN)PoKerZ2017]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb PopGligor:

People like you are the reason for the nerf. Those who think only 3 abilities are good, and everything else sucks. That's simply not the case, mate. There's so many good abilities in this list that open up interesting builds

You CANNOT deny all the sucky abilities on the list. Sure there's a few good ones (I won't name so they don't get nerfed from a knee jerk reaction again) but there's way too many ones in DESPERATE need for buffs. Decoy, Ice Wave, Mind control just to name a few... 

[trst]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

You CANNOT deny all the sucky abilities on the list. Sure there's a few good ones (I won't name so they don't get nerfed from a knee jerk reaction again) but there's way too many ones in DESPERATE need for buffs. Decoy, Ice Wave, Mind control just to name a few... 

Congratulations you named the only three abilities in the system with genuinely zero value. Skimming through the list only those three are bad while about four require augments to have a function.

There are a load of synergies and effective niche applications thanks to this system that don't require Roar, Dispensary, or Defy. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

[Tiltskillet]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)PoKerZ2017 said:

Now instead of more choice, there's even less

QFGIF

[GREF_TM]

On 2020-08-26 at 10:16 AM, PopGligor said:

People like you are the reason for the nerf.

People who want all the stuff on the list be good and comparably viable? lol

On 2020-08-26 at 10:07 AM, Tonin4ABonin said:

Unmodded value, what are YOU smoking

Base defy doesn't scale it cap with power though. So unless they change that part but didn't mention it, 750 is a hard cap.

[Tonin4ABonin]

11 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

People who want all the stuff on the list be good and comparable viable? lol

Base defy doesn't scale it cap with power though. So unless they change that part but didn't mention it, 750 is a hard cap.

Def was never really used for the armor anyways, so complaining about the armor is like ...what?

 

 

skill literally makes you invincible

but muh armor

[GREF_TM]

Just now, Tonin4ABonin said:

skill literally makes you invincible

And locks you down into animation, after which you get an underwhelming AoE.

Defy was used pretty much only for lingering armor buff. Especially on wukong itself, where you have a better invincibility button already.

[Selpar]

4 minutes ago, Tonin4ABonin said:

Def was never really used for the armor anyways, so complaining about the armor is like ...what?

 

 

skill literally makes you invincible

but muh armor

You do know that Wukong got reworked right?

Defy doesn't revive you from death anymore it makes you immune to damage for 2 seconds and then grants you an armor buff based on the amount of damage prevented, Literally everyone who is still using defy is using it for the armor buff.

[Tonin4ABonin]

Just now, GREF_TM said:

And locks you down into animation, after which you get an underwhelming AoE.

Defy was used pretty much only for lingering armor buff. Especially on wukong itself, where you have a better invincibility button already.

Yes, but we aren't getting that one are we? And in any case armor is useful, 750 is more than plenty, including the fact guardian exists. In a scenario where 750 armor isn't useful, 1500 wouldn't have either, so arguing semantics really.

[Tonin4ABonin]

1 minute ago, Selpar said:

You do know that Wukong got reworked right?

Defy doesn't revive you from death anymore it makes you immune to damage for 2 seconds and then grants you an armor buff based on the amount of damage prevented, Literally everyone who is still using defy is using it for the armor buff.

Yikes. Literally what i said, and can be changed with duration.

[GREF_TM]

Just now, Tonin4ABonin said:

750 is more than plenty

There's an immense difference between 750 and 1500 in terms of damage reduction. Unless it scales with power, defy is effectively dead.

[BahamutKaiser]

So, whose using Decoy? I only use it with switch teleport to get into vaults, on Loki himself. 

[Tonin4ABonin]

10 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

There's an immense difference between 750 and 1500 in terms of damage reduction. Unless it scales with power, defy is effectively dead.

in a game where most effective forms of DR come from %mitigation or CC, of which we got multiple better choices even if defy was increased to say 2k armor, so even if left alone, if the ability is bad people won't pick it to begin with so....

Let's also forget other things like shield gating exist too, IF you wanted armor to meme your rhino build w/e, but the armor reduction didn't make it a less appealing choice, it just never was one to begin with.

 

And you should read the values here, your assesment is wrong

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

[Selpar]

2 minutes ago, Tonin4ABonin said:

Yikes. Literally what i said, and can be changed with duration.

I just don't really see how being locked in the taunt animation longer is particularly helpful, and even assuming that the invulnerably period could be extended past the taunt with it only being 2 seconds it would need to be refreshed every 4 seconds even if you had +100% duration. It costs 50 energy if there isn't a trinity on your team I don't see that happening.

Just now, GREF_TM said:

There's an immense difference between 750 and 1500 in terms of damage reduction. Unless it scales with power, defy is effectively dead.

Gonna be honest armor has diminishing so while I would agree with you as a Valkyr main that 750 armor is nothing, for Warframe that have a base armor of like 50 going from ~14% damage reduction to ~72% damage reduction isn't actually that bad.

There are definitely better choices on the list but if they think it is cool it won't hurt slapping it on over one of the skills they don't use.

[Tonin4ABonin]

5 minutes ago, Selpar said:

I just don't really see how being locked in the taunt animation longer is particularly helpful, and even assuming that the invulnerably period could be extended past the taunt with it only being 2 seconds it would need to be refreshed every 4 seconds even if you had +100% duration. It costs 50 energy if there isn't a trinity on your team I don't see that happening.

Gonna be honest armor has diminishing so while I would agree with you as a Valkyr main that 750 armor is nothing, for Warframe that have a base armor of like 50 going from ~14% damage reduction to ~72% damage reduction isn't actually that bad.

There are definitely better choices on the list but if they think it is cool it won't hurt slapping it on over one of the skills they don't use.

This is why people run guardian, i think its fine to say defy is just a bad ability. But guardian exists, pretty much is up 24/7 and won't cost a skill slot. Defy isn't dead cause the armor reduction, it just wasnt there to begin with really.  The difference between 750 and 1400 wasn't much in terms of scaling,so if you wanted dr you'd be better of taking DR% or cc or anything else to increase your EHP at a higher scale

 

[vegetosayajin]

roar is 30% from 50% on the original(unmodded)
so...it will still be very useful 😄

[GREF_TM]

5 minutes ago, Selpar said:

Gonna be honest armor has diminishing

Look up EHP.

7 minutes ago, Selpar said:

Warframe that have a base armor of like 50 going from ~14% damage reduction to ~72% damage reduction isn't actually that bad.

Same frame will get 83.78% from 1550 armor, which translates into taking 40% less damage compared to 800 armor from current defy.

[Selpar]

3 minutes ago, Tonin4ABonin said:

in a game where most effective forms of DR come from %mitigation or CC, of which we got multiple better choices even if defy was increased to say 2k armor, so even if left alone, if the ability is bad people won't pick it to begin with so....

Let's also forget other things like shield gating exist too, IF you wanted armor to meme your rhino build w/e, but the armor reduction didn't make it a less appealing choice, it just never was one to begin with

Pretty sure defy is nerfed solely because of Inaros, it isn't hard to give Inaros 8,635 HP a fact that is normally kept in check by the fact he only has 225 Armor, but if I gave him some armor mods and defy didn't have the lowered cap he could have 2000 armor while the effect is active. Having over 8000 HP and ignoring ~87% of incoming damage would make him stupidly good.