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Lich weapon RNG is insanity


HunterDigi

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I just did like 30+ for kuva larving and did a few past week too, did not get a single nukor, at this point I'm just saying screw it and not playing that gamemode until some serious improvements are done to this insanity.

 

It needs to have a way for the player to at least narrow down the weapon to a smaller pool.

Maybe divide the weapons into groups per planets (could be tied to what the troops on that planet actually use or could be done in how the effective the weapon is, like bramma and such only on sedna), that should give players a way smaller pool of weapons to roll from.

And maybe get it even narrower with the type of weapon you kill them: primary gives primaries and archguns, secondary gives secondaries and melee gives melee and archmelee.

 

It seriously is NOT fun to run the same mission over and over in the span of a week and simply get nowhere with it.
 

I look forward to corpus liches! This won't be an immediate issue there but it still will be one near arsenal completion.

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18 minutes ago, HunterDigi said:

Maybe divide the weapons into groups per planets (could be tied to what the troops on that planet actually use or could be done in how the effective the weapon is, like bramma and such only on sedna), that should give players a way smaller pool of weapons to roll from.

This could be problematic with invasions and the arbitrary definition on how effective a weapon is (also weapons get buffs/nerfs).

 

My preference would simply be for tokens that influence what weapon is given. A cheap token that sets the type (I.e. primary/secondary etc) and a more expensive token that sets what the weapon is (I.e. Nukor or Bramma etc). It would be simple system that lets people easily pick what they want.

 

Don't forget that you can trade for Liches. If you don’t care about the elements or percentages you could probably get one cheaply.

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Not to be THAT guy but: This is a game where the grind is the central game loop. You experienced the grind. You didnt like the grind.

I've had my fair share of "30 runs and STILL not the lich I wanted". I pushed thru. I am now all the more proud of my accomplishments.

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57 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Wonder what will you say when Liches have premiere, where weapons was totally random and you can get dupes everytime, now atleast you see what weapon you get

Doesnt make the current system good though. 

I fully agree with OP, Im missing only ONE kuva weapon for mastery, and its Kraken which I dont even want to use, so doing 50 cassini runs for that is just crazy. I started doing it so that if I dont get Kraken in less than say 10 runs I take the next "popular" wep and just hope I can valence it or sell for decent plat... 

They REALLY need a way of letting players choose the weapon or at least seriously narrow down the options like you suggested. Imagine if they add more kuva weps in the future, its gonna make it even worse if theres no change. 

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1 hour ago, HunterDigi said:

not playing that gamemode until some serious improvements are done to this insanity.

So never again?

1 hour ago, HunterDigi said:

It needs to have a way for the player to at least narrow down the weapon to a smaller pool.

There is one way to get a 100% RNG-free Kuva weapon, and that's trading, which is good for DE, because trading is done with plats, and someone at some point needs to have put the plats in the system.

And that is the reason why I don't expect the system to change. DE is - very indirectly - monetizing this RNG, and have very clearly told us "hey, you want a way to get weapons RNG-free, there is one, it requires trading, which probably requires plats at some point, FEEL FREE TO BUY A BIT OF PLATS WITH REAL MONEY, won't it make that Kuva farming so much more bearable".

Yes, OP, the system has a lot of RNG. It was designed to have lots of it and DE is certainly very happy that you confirm that it is working as intended.

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb Dhrekr:

There is one way to get a 100% RNG-free Kuva weapon, and that's trading, which is good for DE, because trading is done with plats, and someone at some point needs to have put the plats in the system.

And that is the reason why I don't expect the system to change. DE is - very indirectly - monetizing this RNG, and have very clearly told us "hey, you want a way to get weapons RNG-free, there is one, it requires trading, which probably requires plats at some point, FEEL FREE TO BUY A BIT OF PLATS WITH REAL MONEY, won't it make that Kuva farming so much more bearable".

Yes, OP, the system has a lot of RNG. It was designed to have lots of it and DE is certainly very happy that you confirm that it is working as intended.

Well, that or you have generous friends or guild mates trading one for a common mod.

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3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Well, that or you have generous friends or guild mates trading one for a common mod.

That is true. I'm personally always happy to give some of my excessively-farmed rare stuff to guildmates.

But still, for each unlikable bum who doesn't have friends and buys Kuva litches with plat, DE is making money.

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Kind of whatever really.

Just to put it into a somewhat accurate perspective according to the data you gave:

If you did 30 runs that means you were ~45 minutes at it over the past week. If you did it on Cassini on Saturn (~1 1/2 minutes per run). So, you spent 45 minutes out of  10.080 minutes this week had on it. That equates to 0.45% of your entire week's time going into it. If we would say you slept 12 hours each day: that's 0.9% of your available time spent on getting something you want. Let's say you did another 30 runs as the few you mentioned. That's 1.8% of your week's time spent on something you don't like in order to get something you want.

Is it perfect - especially in terms of minimizing rng? No, and your suggestions are generally interesting I suppose, but you make it sound like it's the worst thing to ever have existed in Warframe. Quite frankly, as someone who farmed pretty much all the Lich weapons (and Ephemera) in the first non-larvling-skip iteration(s) of the system - mostly without being able to even trade for any of them - I say: it's very far from that. I still have like eight Ayanga Liches I rolled mostly back to back and had to finish without having any option to evade them. That makes it difficult for me to empathize with complaints about the current way more lenient and more player/time-respecting system.

Trade for a Lich that has a Nukor if that farm seems like insanity to you after having seen some roughly estimated numbers. Up to you.

Good luck should you decide to keep going.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

If you did 30 runs that means you were ~45 minutes at it over the past week. If you did it on Cassini on Saturn (~1 1/2 minutes per run). So, you spent 45 minutes out of  10.080 minutes this week had on it. That equates to 0.45% of your entire week's time going into it. If we would say you slept 12 hours each day: that's 0.9% of your available time spent on getting something you want. Let's say you did another 30 runs as the few you mentioned. That's 1.8% of your week's time spent on something you don't like in order to get something you want.

Oh come on. 

Considering hunting for your larva is literally this:

1. Go to cassini

2. Speedrun the objective so the larva spawns 

3. Kill it, see its wrong weapon, abort mission (or run to exit) 

4. Repeat 30-50 times depending on RNG

Thats absolutely ridiculous gameplay, in fact I wouldnt even call it gameplay since Im literally ignoring everything I can to get to it and personally always aborting if its wrong. So Im spending almost the same time staring loading screen as Im doing the mission... 

Be it 1% or 50% its still not fun and is putting A LOT of people off liches entirely. If a person can play only say 2 hours a day, spending 1 hour running back and forth for this is massive amount of time wasted. At least for some other missions you get some other rewards while farming but for this even if you finish the map you get almost nothing for it, and any other gamemode where they spawn isnt worth it either unless you are a new player and want to farm something like cells while at it (but if they do getting the right gun could take them weeks or months depending how often they play and rng) 

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb xombob89:

Oh come on. 

Considering hunting for your larva is literally this:

1. Go to cassini

2. Speedrun the objective so the larva spawns 

3. Kill it, see its wrong weapon, abort mission (or run to exit) 

4. Repeat 30-50 times depending on RNG

Thats absolutely ridiculous gameplay, in fact I wouldnt even call it gameplay since Im literally ignoring everything I can to get to it and personally always aborting if its wrong. So Im spending almost the same time staring loading screen as Im doing the mission... 

Be it 1% or 50% its still not fun and is putting A LOT of people off liches entirely. If a person can play only say 2 hours a day, spending 1 hour running back and forth for this is massive amount of time wasted. At least for some other missions you get some other rewards while farming but for this even if you finish the map you get almost nothing for it, and any other gamemode where they spawn isnt worth it either unless you are a new player and want to farm something like cells while at it (but if they do getting the right gun could take them weeks or months depending how often they play and rng) 

I never said it was fun. I said it isn't perfect. I said the actual time that was spent on it so far was low relative to the entire week especially in comparison to how it was before and also a bunch of other current and past grinds and also other games (no, that doesn't justify it - just a fact).

1% or 50% makes a difference though if you call it insanity. Fun, boredom, unrewarding are different and very subjective topics. Some people enjoy getting kicked in their lower body area. My comment was there to point out that it's hardly an insane grind in terms of time you have to commit or requirements you have to meet.

I'm not sure what you want to argue here about. I also hate repeadetly doing the same thing. If I get annoyed I go do something else and come back later, take some plat and get it that way (if possible) or I wait until DE makes it easy(ier) to get like they tend to do if it's newer stuff (recent example: Necramech mods). This game is built around testing your frustration limits in order to make you spend plat/money. Usually, when it is actually insanity, you can be sure to have a community revolt on your hands - which isn't the case with the current Lich system as far as I can tell. 

Your critiques with the system are totally valid. Again, nothing really to argue about. I talked about a different aspect of the system.

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb xombob89:

Oh come on. 

Considering hunting for your larva is literally this:

1. Go to cassini

2. Speedrun the objective so the larva spawns 

3. Kill it, see its wrong weapon, abort mission (or run to exit) 

4. Repeat 30-50 times depending on RNG

Thats absolutely ridiculous gameplay, in fact I wouldnt even call it gameplay since Im literally ignoring everything I can to get to it and personally always aborting if its wrong. So Im spending almost the same time staring loading screen as Im doing the mission... 

Be it 1% or 50% its still not fun and is putting A LOT of people off liches entirely. If a person can play only say 2 hours a day, spending 1 hour running back and forth for this is massive amount of time wasted. At least for some other missions you get some other rewards while farming but for this even if you finish the map you get almost nothing for it, and any other gamemode where they spawn isnt worth it either unless you are a new player and want to farm something like cells while at it (but if they do getting the right gun could take them weeks or months depending how often they play and rng) 

It could be basically a spinning wheel and press ok for what you get or repeat till you get what you want. And this si the main problem in the system, it has no gamepla,y same for Kuva Missions the Siphon can be ignored on Nightwaver or doing Lich like this and the main objective has no connection whatsoever aswell. This is the main problem the game has overall, new "content" that not connects to any or feel to isolated.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Suggestion: first two requiems in your parazon determine the weapon you’ll get.
 

A help window will show what weapon your current combination will give. This will not be in the position of modded weapon damage on the left, but will be a window. This way, as additional factions of Lichs are introduced, the tooltip can easily be expanded with their weapons.

searching a specific weapon will pull up the requiems that combine to make that weapon, similar to how searching combined elements already pulls up results for both base elements.

Equipping no requiem mods will cause the created weapon to be random. If for any reason, this convenience is too strong, it can be throttled by eating 1-3 charges of whatever mods were used to select the weapon.

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  • 9 months later...
On 2020-10-18 at 9:59 AM, HunterDigi said:

ALL RNG is insanity

Fixed.

I know not everyone will agree and try to say the problem is that RNG is merely being misused... It's not innately bad....

 

But my Stance will always be... RNG can never be fun or good.... You can make it inconsequential or relatively Harmless... But good ? Nope... Sorry... I'm not buying it.

On 2020-10-18 at 10:43 AM, Angier said:

 

I've had my fair share of "30 runs and STILL not the lich I wanted". I pushed thru. I am now all the more proud of my accomplishments.

What about the stuff you haven't gotten yet ? 🤔....

On 2020-10-18 at 1:16 PM, (PSN)Deeceem said:

you make it sound like it's the worst thing to ever have existed in Warframe.

But.... Isn't it ? 😥

On 2020-10-18 at 1:16 PM, (PSN)Deeceem said:

Quite frankly, as someone who farmed pretty much all the Lich weapons (and Ephemera) in the first non-larvling-skip iteration(s) of the system - mostly without being able to even trade for any of them - I say: it's very far from that.

Yeaaaaah... But.... Isn't that just the Stockholm Syndrome talking ? 🤔

On 2020-10-18 at 1:24 PM, Proscriptor said:

something else should have been the mechanic behind choosing the weapon, but i'm not sure what

I mean....

They could just literally let you choose it like you do in the Market ?

It's good enough for market weapons... So I say it's good enough for Liches... 😁.

On 2020-10-18 at 10:51 PM, xombob89 said:

 

Considering hunting for your larva is literally this:

1. Go to cassini

2. Speedrun the objective so the larva spawns 

3. Kill it, see its wrong weapon, abort mission (or run to exit) 

4. Repeat 30-50 times depending on RNG

Thats absolutely ridiculous gameplay, in fact I wouldnt even call it gameplay since Im literally ignoring everything I can to get to it and personally always aborting if its wrong. So Im spending almost the same time staring loading screen as Im doing the mission... 

I can't say how many runs it took me to get my specific weapon....

But I can say that I levelled up 1 and a Half Warframes and 3 weapons from scratching will doing this....

 

That's generally how I measure my grinds these days....

 

You know the Grind is real when you can successfully level anything from 0 to 30 in non-endless low level mission... 😱...

On 2020-10-19 at 12:53 AM, (PSN)Deeceem said:

I said the actual time that was spent on it so far was low relative to the entire week especially in comparison to how it was before and also a bunch of other current and past grinds and also other games (no, that doesn't justify it - just a fact).

You're probably right... But the problem is as human beans... Our Perception of Time Passing is borderline inconsistent, unreliable and mostly subjective....

And that's really what we're crying about here... It's not how long it actually takes... It's how long it feels like it takes.... 

On 2020-10-19 at 12:53 AM, (PSN)Deeceem said:

 

I'm not sure what you want to argue here about. I also hate repeadetly doing the same thing. If I get annoyed I go do something else and come back later, take some plat and get it that way (if possible) or I wait until DE makes it easy(ier) to get like they tend to do if it's newer stuff (recent example: Necramech mods). This game is built around testing your frustration limits in order to make you spend plat/money. Usually, when it is actually insanity, you can be sure to have a community revolt on your hands - which isn't the case with the current Lich system as far as I can tell.

By default... Im that way aswell... But at some point I rationalised the situation to myself differently.... Now if I want something I just grind until I get Frustrated.... Then I keep grinding through the Frustration....

I don't do the whole "cool off and come back later" thing anymore because I don't want the game to hang this uncomfortable feeling over my heard for Weeks or even months on end.... So now I've put myself in an Ultimatum....

I grind until it drops or until I punch a whole through my monitor and swear off Warframe forever...

 

Guess which of those things happened first ? 😐 Il give you a hint.... I'm using a new monitor now...

 

 

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There was a very good suggestion to split out the kuva weapons into catagory based farming. Something like, put the melee and archwing weapons in tier 1, side arms in tier 2 and primaryies in tier 3.  Eg. Mercury, tier 2, etc.

Some are saying it was worse when we first farmed liches, and it was, way worse, but there was a much smaller pool (ignoring other changes). Now if you try and get the one you want you can literally do hundreds of capture missions (~5% chance only) and still reasonably expect to not get the weapon you want and you need up to 10 of them..... Not good at all.

I've given up on farming them. got the entire daily syndicate standing (no boosters) just trying unsuccessfully to get another Hek. It's soul destroying. Sounds fun, heh?

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On 2021-09-07 at 3:50 AM, (PSN)Reaperbot_scythe said:

Same thing here 7 hours trying to get a kuva bramma every other kuva weapon drops but not the bramma I just give up in the end it's insanly broken

Try lumping your Farms Together if its possible... what I mean by that is... if theres anything else you might want... see if you can get it on the same mission that would also allow you you to creating Larvings/Liches. in my case I farmed my Kuva Weapons in sabotage instead of Capture because I was farming the Tier 2 Xiphos Blueprint at the time :P !!!

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