Leqesai Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 2020-10-18 at 8:46 AM, Traubenzuckr said: stop the drama and begging it makes me sick QFE Having subsumed nearly every warframe while testing most of the subsumable abilities in various builds/setups, I can safely say that there really isn't anything wrong with the system. The nerfed abilities are still useful. They were never needed before and even at 50% efficiency they are STILL a boost over what we currently had. This is a system that really never needed to exist and has only made frames stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 17 hours ago, vegetosayajin said: Helminth would have been a great thing, but if you allowed any power but "balance reee". There is no balance in warframe, there never was, I don't know why they still try to sell this as some kind of a thing. Of course there is balance... Are you kidding? It isn't the same type of balancing that is done to competitive games but there is absolutely balance in Warframe. Otherwise why does your gun not shoot for a base of 1 million radiation damage? Because specific numbers are chosen to fit the needs of the game. The fact that stats are adjusted, abilities are reworked, and combat systems change speaks directly to the fact that Warframe developers are trying to keep a balance between underpowered and overpowered stuff. Killing everything in one shot? Overpowered (not balanced) Not killing everything in 1000000 shots? Underpowered (not balanced) Killing everything in a reasonable amount of shots? Balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 We shouldnt be concerned about meta slaves. There will ALWAYS be a "most used" ability. I use helminth more to have fun than i do to make every single frame Meta. Roar is a rather boring ability IMO. All it is a damage boost, in a game where im usually ok with whatever damage ive already been doing. It feels like a "do nothing" button most times. I have much more fun experimenting with combos to discover synergies than i do trying to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of my warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said: We shouldnt be concerned about meta slaves. There will ALWAYS be a "most used" ability. I use helminth more to have fun than i do to make every single frame Meta. Roar is a rather boring ability IMO. All it is a damage boost, in a game where im usually ok with whatever damage ive already been doing. It feels like a "do nothing" button most times. I have much more fun experimenting with combos to discover synergies than i do trying to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of my warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdsUds Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Meanwhile I'm here wanting the stamina and wall running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurtiStryke Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 2020-10-19 at 8:28 PM, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said: I haven't subsumed larva yet, but if it is moddable with range mods then there is no issue. It's DEs game so if they don't want people pulling enemies from 30 meters away that's their decision. I assume cosmic armor is Defy? If I'm not mistaken only the armor buff was adjusted, as you can still do plenty of damage with it if modded correctly and it also saves you from death, so once again, not bad for 1 ability alone. They tested, and adjusted these before releasing them, saving the casuals from using the excuse that their toy was taken away from them after wasting their resources and time, so you can't be entitled to something you never owned, so there's no issue there as well. "They tested", apparently De tested only strong abilities, while weaker ones got unchanged or completely avoided, if they nerfed the meta abilities, couldn't they also "adjust" or buff weaker ones? why just nerfing?(like they usually do) Like i said, the nerfs aren't catastrophic, it just pisses me off that they didn't even try to buff non-meta/weak abilities such as tempest barrage/ mind control/deco/spellblind etc etc. I'm not against the nerfs who bring balance to the game and avoid powercreep, i just hate when they act like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerJoke66 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Even though i agree with the statement , but before you come into conclusion of 'DE doesn't understand Helminth' you should've concluded that 'DE doesnt understnad their own gameplay flow , the dynamics of damage and how it scales , how it plays in the game that created certain metas for certain content islands' . In other words 'DE doensnt get what works in their game and what doesnt' That also can be referred to 'Just by looking at statistical data you cant balance your game , you have to dive into the fields a bit , not even in games everything can be solved by theorycrafting' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerJoke66 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Just like how breach surge garuda in theory having infinite damage doesnt play out the same in actual endless missions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 4 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said: "They tested", apparently De tested only strong abilities, while weaker ones got unchanged or completely avoided, if they nerfed the meta abilities, couldn't they also "adjust" or buff weaker ones? why just nerfing?(like they usually do) Like i said, the nerfs aren't catastrophic, it just pisses me off that they didn't even try to buff non-meta/weak abilities such as tempest barrage/ mind control/deco/spellblind etc etc. I'm not against the nerfs who bring balance to the game and avoid powercreep, i just hate when they act like this. Well I think everyone agrees DE works very slow. They're working on another warframe:revised but we don't know what they're gonna touch yet. They may buff one or 2 things that they feel everyone has constantly been bringing up, but they're not gonna do much. It could be time constraints, resource restraint, them deciding what they want to do, laziness, or just overlooking things etc. We don't really know. I haven't been here for years like others so I still just actually have fun with the game and don't take it all to seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culaio Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I honestly cant be bothered with helminth system, I sacrificed every single frame to it so now I have nice garden but other then that I refuse to use system as long as devs can at any moment nerf any ability I would want to use, I refuse to wasted my resources that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akko_Cavendish Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 No, you are the one who don't understand Helminth. If DE nerf every abilities, people will finally use Loki's Decoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 2020-10-26 at 5:48 PM, Culaio said: I honestly cant be bothered with helminth system, I sacrificed every single frame to it so now I have nice garden but other then that I refuse to use system as long as devs can at any moment nerf any ability I would want to use, I refuse to wasted my resources that way. thats a lot of contradictions there. You cant be bothered, yet you've subsumed "every single" frame 24hrs at a time? also- subsuming every frames takes a lot of resources, and a lot of farming if you need duplicates. So you use a bunch of resources to subsume frames for a system that you refuse to use.???? Im confused....or are you just trying to be edgy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akko_Cavendish Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1分钟前 , Hypernaut1 说: thats a lot of contradictions there. You cant be bothered, yet you've subsumed "every single" frame 24hrs at a time? also- subsuming every frames takes a lot of resources, and a lot of farming if you need duplicates. So you use a bunch of resources to subsume frames for a system that you refuse to use.???? Im confused....or are you just trying to be edgy? I think he meant the resource he'll use when transferring the abilities. For example Mark for death before nerfed (I know it's been buffed afterwards), And Vauban 1 on Limbo (I know it's a bug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renginus Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 In wf are stupid and op powers problem is there are USSELES powers HelS#&$ system looks good but its a bandage that only hides the wound (usseles skills or energy waste powers) this system would be amazing if it had depth and if half of the warframes did not have an ability that is only there in number and is a clear choice for exchange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroPed Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 2020-10-19 at 3:07 AM, _R_o_g_u_e_ said: If an ability needs to be nerfed as a Helminth ability, they need to be nerfed on the original frame too. There’s nothing stopping any two frames from working together. Nerfing the subsume doesn’t make any sense. The problematic element remains, the synergy is still in the game, they’ve just crippled their newest system. There is a limit of 4 frames in a squad. With helminth a limit of 8 separate warframes abilities are available. Using two abilities on the one frame is not the same as two warframes working together. With Helminth you could potentially eliminate the need for an entire warframe in a squad by replacing an ability. And as a result freeing up the spot to have another warframe, with an extra ability to replace one you probably didn't use since you replaced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akko_Cavendish Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 6分钟前 , NecroPed 说: There is a limit of 4 frames in a squad. With helminth a limit of 8 separate warframes abilities are available. Using two abilities on the one frame is not the same as two warframes working together. With Helminth you could potentially eliminate the need for an entire warframe in a squad by replacing an ability. And as a result freeing up the spot to have another warframe, with an extra ability to replace one you probably didn't use since you replaced it. This is true, but I want to point out that it's because most of the warframe is good because of one of their ability (depends on the mod you equipped, and not something like a Loki decoy ). It's really down to the overall design of the warframe abilities. For example Frost is not replaceable by abilities (lol rhino). As all of his 4 abilities are good and can bring a huge benefit to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culaio Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 2020-10-28 at 12:24 AM, Hypernaut1 said: thats a lot of contradictions there. You cant be bothered, yet you've subsumed "every single" frame 24hrs at a time? also- subsuming every frames takes a lot of resources, and a lot of farming if you need duplicates. So you use a bunch of resources to subsume frames for a system that you refuse to use.???? Im confused....or are you just trying to be edgy? you missunderstood me, poping into game every 24 hour isnt a problem for me since I play regularly, what about having every frame ? I already got copy of each frame before helminth even droped, it wasnt hard to get, parts of majority of frames I already had, just needed to get main blueprints. I do not regret making garden(sacrificing each frame), since I am completionist, so I dont mind using all the resources and frames to create this garden, I known exactly what I get when sacrificing them. Problem with USING helminth system is that I dont know what will I get, I may find good combination and be happy with, but DE hinted at further significant nerfs, I do not know if my combination will survive or not, and if I used helminth to change abilities of a lot of frames then I could be throwing tremendous amount of resources into trash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobiparty Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I stopped using helminth after the second week, it's just not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traior246 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 "Don't let Warframe die" - Mogamu, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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