Idea on how to fix Valkitty

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

7 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

... right, that changes everything, you have totally convinced me.

Are you telling me you don't find the ability to make sharp turns equal to Wukong's Cloud Walker? Or Wisp's Will O' Wisp? Gauss' Mach Rush, or any other mobility ability? Why, you must not be doing it right then, because Ripline is the TRUE mobility tool!

[rs_sakuras]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Are you telling me you don't find the ability to make sharp turns equal to Wukong's Cloud Walker? Or Wisp's Will O' Wisp? Gauss' Mach Rush, or any other mobility ability? Why, you must not be doing it right then, because Ripline is the TRUE mobility tool!

And people here wonder why i have no desire to explain or answer to anything properly anymore. 

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

32 minutes ago, rs_sakuras said:

 

I don't think I need to learn how to use Ripline. Love both this and the "check my profile" thing.

I didn't deny its usefulness as a parkour complement, but trying to deny it's an ability from the old times that has had one of its intended uses made irrelevant is foolish. You didn't even propose anything for either its damage or use as a gap closer, that works somewhat bad given if you use it on an enemy they go flying past most of the time, and if you use it on a near surface you have no way of controlling were you want to stop and for some reason the momentum it builds is really hard to kill sometimes to the point of making you look like one of those birds flying against the wind and staying in place. Sometimes ripline won't even pull you a bit due to this, so depending on how sharp of a turn you take it won't even work. You really haven't seen the user that won't stop saying its pull strengths should be switched or something? It could really use at least something like that, yet you say it's perfect. Also, if you are a PC player you probably have a better time with it, but at least I on console have a hard time aiming at fast / small / far away enemies, so perhaps some auto target ala Fireball wouldn't be bad. 

Warcry buffs AS and armor by 50% and lasts 15 secs, inf with aug. Reservoirs grant 20% AS, FR, MS, 300 health, 50 h/s, and AoE stuns for 30 secs for the same cost, and can potentially last forever without augment. Really comparing is bad, but the augment could be baseline at least, and Warcry made recastable if you don't like the AoE slow idea.

Didn't mention if old channeling was weak or wasn't, just said your Hysteria, and some glorified venka with perma channeling LS would be very similar. Yes, if invencibility is gone then it should be replaced with something (if you think lifesteal is the special feature, then apply the Ripline logic because it might have been years ago, but nowadays even wall jumping restores health, so not quite comparable to energy waves and increased range with combo imo, or at least not yet). And you didn't even mention the stance, that is somewhat mediocre and has the block stationary and forward combos ending on the same attacks, even though they have different uses. Also, the absolute lack of multipliers making the slide the absolute best DPS option and rendering the ability somewhat repetitive to the point of being mind numbing. Also, synergies, as in a special effect when paired with another ability, not the kind of synergy a melee weapon gets from an AS buff. But admitting the increasing energy cost could be gone is a start. Also, that HA could really be baseline, and that Enraged's CD is an insult in itself, but I won't get salty. 

And don't tell me that "no recovery" passive she has (that everyone can have as long as the slide before reaching the floor) shouldn't be replaced by a Rage effect of a certain %. It's her bread and butter, and fits berserkers, can't think of a better passive for her (I assume you think her passives are perfect too, so just my two cents). 

And I dislike the Valkitty thing because people can't tell the limits of a joke and it seems some people skip over the berserker theme and understand agile as feline, and then we have people saying she should have Khora's cat on her kit. That's why. 

[(PSN)FK2P]

All she needs is better range on her 4’s attacks, exhalted melee needs access to acolyte mods. She also needs a new 3.

[Yamazuki]

A lot of why she's considered not good is because there's other Warframes that does what she does, and more, as well as with less restrictions. Unless you absolutely like Hysteria, there's no reason to use her from a performance perspective.

Wisp provides melee attack speed that applies fire rate to ranged weapons as well as movement, but she also has better cc and additional HP+HP/s ends up being better all around, especially its interactions with companions and objectives.

Gauss also gets to be pretty much immune to a lot of damage, and while he's more on the selfish side, he gets a lot of buffs that end up applying to ranged weapons too.

Valkyr is strictly melee, and it should be evident by now a lot of people don't stick to melee, melee only outshines ranged weapons entirely for endurance running, which doesn't apply to 99.9% of the player base. Then for people that do use melee, well, she's not even the best melee Warframe due to the above, and then there's other Warframes like Wukong that at least gets a Twin to use a good primary/secondary and better movement, and his sustain is both cheaper, less cast animations, and provides movement.

With the way the Warframe's have been balanced, she's objectively extremely underwhelming. Even her damage immunity tied to Hysteria, which was according to DE a balancing issue, isn't even exclusive to her either. Wisp has spammable immunity for example.

If she's to remain as the melee exclusive Warframe, then she needs to offer more than just attack speed and high base armor. The game has multiple unkillable ranged damage dealers that offer a million times more than what she does, and melee isn't even effective against all enemies unless you limit yourself to shotguns that can equip melee weapons.

Passive should be a higher recovery rate to staggers and knockdowns, probably at least equal to the mod values at max rank.

Ripline should've been changed ages ago to being a proper gap closer, instead of the nonsense it does now, it can still be used on terrain/allies. If used on an enemy/ally it just pulls her to them with the speed based on parkour/speed. This lets people like op keep their favorite ability without it being useless in most situations. For her to still have access to cc [allowing Paralysis to be replaced], this could just extend outward to enemies and pulling them to the target within a small area.

Warcry, rather than increasing the base speed it provides, it should just be given a damage bonus similar to Rhino's that apply to melee weapons only. At the end of the day, high attack speed isn't actually beneficial for all weapons, and ruins some stances.

Paralysis is the ability that I honestly think needs to be fully replaced. This could be a damage reduction ability and small amount of life steal with an additional component that rewards scoring melee kills/hits, since I know DE likes adding additional things other than energy to manage.

Hysteria would at this point lose the damage immunity, and her energy rebalanced as well as interaction with Rage [etc] brought back. Stats re-adjusted to be balanced around BR/WW and an increase of base range to 2-2.5. While active she could keep the cc immunity, increases lifesteel from her third, and enhances bonuses from Warcry, quicker Ripline. Combo counter between Hysteria and Standard melee would just be shared; it's bugged and BR/WW stacks during Hysteria so this would just be making it a feature anyways.

This would at least improve her standard melee play, while also increasing her usability for people that just like using her claws. At that point is just comes down to number balancing.

[Teridax68]

Beyond the question of whether these proposed changes would be a buff or a nerf (though I do agree with the others that they look like a significant overall nerf), I'm puzzled by what the OP considers to be the problem with Valkyr, and how their suggestions would truly fix that. There's nothing to Valkyr's invincibility on her 4 that damages her coherence, but there's also a general agreement that most of Valkyr's kit isn't very effective, which is why she isn't popular. Dashing to terrain isn't exactly spectacular mobility in a game that gives us Operator Void Dashing and a bullet jump (plus a dash augment on Valk's 4), Warcry is overcosted for what it does, and Paralysis is infamously weak, to the point where it's barely considered at all useful. Even her 4 isn't considered spectacular, given the strings attached, high drain, and mediocre weapon damage. She could easily use improvements across the board.

My 2 cents on how I'd change Valkyr:

• Passive: Valkyr cannot be knocked down or staggered, and is immune to hard landings.
• 1 - Pounce: Valkyr dashes to her target and reduces a percentage of their health, shields, and armor on impact, stealing a smaller portion of all three, while also knocking her target down to the ground and exposing them to ground finishers.
• 2 - Warcry: Cost reduced to 50 Energy, base duration increased. No longer increases armor, instead provides life steal. Can be recast while active, and animation no longer interrupts Valkyr's actions.
• 3 - Paralysis: Augment is now part of the base ability, stun always causes enemies to take stealth damage from the next melee attack. New augment allows a portion of Valkyr's damage to be dealt to all stunned targets while they are affected.
• 4 - Hysteria: No longer costs Energy or stores self-damage, but instead drains Valkyr's health. Claws base damage increased, but no longer have innate life steal. Ability activates instantly, and no longer interrupts her actions. Augment changed to give Valkyr's Exalted Claws stacking crit and status chance for each enemy killed.

Effectively, buff Valkyr across the board, reduce her Energy limitations, and increase her melee capabilities, while giving her lesser-used abilities a purpose. Ideally, she should be a really tough frame that can power through most things thrown her way, while being able to tear single targets apart in melee range really quickly, and contribute a degree of utility along the way.

[rs_sakuras]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

My 2 cents on how I'd change Valkyr:

• Passive: Valkyr cannot be knocked down or staggered, and is immune to hard landings.
• 1 - Pounce: Valkyr dashes to her target and reduces a percentage of their health, shields, and armor on impact, stealing a smaller portion of all three, while also knocking her target down to the ground and exposing them to ground finishers.
• 2 - Warcry: Cost reduced to 50 Energy, base duration increased. No longer increases armor, instead provides life steal. Can be recast while active, and animation no longer interrupts Valkyr's actions.
• 3 - Paralysis: Augment is now part of the base ability, stun always causes enemies to take stealth damage from the next melee attack. New augment allows a portion of Valkyr's damage to be dealt to all stunned targets while they are affected.
• 4 - Hysteria: No longer costs Energy or stores self-damage, but instead drains Valkyr's health. Claws base damage increased, but no longer have innate life steal. Ability activates instantly, and no longer interrupts her actions. Augment changed to give Valkyr's Exalted Claws stacking crit and status chance for each enemy killed.

Effectively, buff Valkyr across the board, reduce her Energy limitations, and increase her melee capabilities, while giving her lesser-used abilities a purpose. Ideally, she should be a really tough frame that can power through most things thrown her way, while being able to tear single targets apart in melee range really quickly, and contribute a degree of utility along the way.

I feel like those changes would completly change her, that armor buff is a big part of her damage reduction (while you're outside Hysteria) that's not something i would remove. Her invincibility is something that kind of needs to get out. It's a ability that is practicly impossible to get right when it needs to be balanced in game.

I would recomend checking what Yamazuki suggested (the one above you.) Atleast personally that's a suggestion i really like. 

[Tsuana]

On 03/02/2021 at 10:51 PM, (PSN)HynvictSanngRa said:

And unrelated but for the love of whatever when will the kitty joke die.

It'll never die. It's an adorable meme and I'll fight you on that.

[NoLazyShadow]

В 04.02.2021 в 02:00, rs_sakuras сказал:

Truthfully her kit is pretty good already. It doesn't need that much of a change.

*Looking at 4 broken, oudated and poorly desgined abilities*  I have to disagree

В 04.02.2021 в 02:00, rs_sakuras сказал:

Ripline: This ability is fine, It's a solid ability for movement and works as a great extension to Bullet jumping. (i will fight anyone who tries to say otherwise :D )

And you completly ignore its second function which is both bad and hard to use comfortably. 

В 04.02.2021 в 02:00, rs_sakuras сказал:

Warcry: This ability is also solid, Need no changes, some people might thing that slow effect should kinda be an aura like thing permanently around her. but it doesn't really need to as the skill is already solid even if it didn't even excist.

So, the fact that nobody use it without its augment is not a problem for you? What about debuff and spreading the buff both which only affects allies/mobs within cast range?

В 04.02.2021 в 02:00, rs_sakuras сказал:

Paralyzis: This is also another solid skill Doesn't need changes, it opens up some tougher enemies to finishers when needed.

No offense, but I think you haven't played Valk extensivly. This skill is 102% useless for number of reasons. 

В 04.02.2021 в 02:00, rs_sakuras сказал:

Hysteria: Now this is the one that needs a change that would tie it together with rest of her kit. and truthfully it only needs a small one, here's how i propose to change it.

Hysteria demand complete overhaul, proper integration into the melee 3.0 and removing of cancer that is her invisability. Operator and any proper melee can and will outperform Hysteria without broken any mechanics getting in your way

[Loza03]

On 2021-02-03 at 10:25 PM, NinjaZeku said:

... no, how about you teach us how to use it, how to make it something truly worthwhile?

AFAIK, you're the only one who thinks that Ripline is currently actually good,
and just repeating the same claim is not gonna convince anyone who's tried to make it work in combat
(and has access to the just superior Void Dash instead).

Like, you can have a smidgen of fun doing a little (not amazing) Spider-Man swinging now and then,
but even for that it often falls flat, the pull is just too weak / slow, especially on a high-Range build,
stopping way short of you reaching the anchor point, or just dragging you along the floor a bit.

Ripline basically acts as a second bullet jump, and whilst that's hardly amazing (I'd personally prefer it become a Helminth power, seems to fit really well), it dramatically improves your mobility, and in particular, your agility.

Consider it this way - Void Dash is faster in terms of linear speed, but it's not very dextrous and you're not really able to keep dealing damage at all whilst void-dashing. Ripline shines in closer-quarters or mid-range movement where it's not worth popping into your Operator - zipping up a level that's just out of reach of a Bullet Jump, landing quickly without the heavy slam endlag, even slowing down in mid-air after a horizontal bullet jump that overshot (or likewise speeding up after a vertical bullet jump). And yes, it's also really good if you want to make a quick, sharp turn. You can get some crazy speed if you get the angle just so too. Not to mention, well - sometimes you just miss a jump and it's a good course-correction power.

Having said that, I do have to agree with @(PSN)HynvictSanngRa - whilst the ability is still useful and fun, it's probably too outdated to be a main ability of a frame's kit. Again, I'd love to see it become a Helminth power, or even baked into Warframe's base parkour if DE could find room on the control scheme, but as part of Valkyr's main kit? Not so much. It's not even particularly thematic - when was the last time you saw a brute-force Berserker or a Cat swing around like Spiderman or a Titanfall 2 pilot?

[rs_sakuras]

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

And you completly ignore its second function which is both bad and hard to use comfortably. 

True, the 2nd function is kinda bad.

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

So, the fact that nobody use it without its augment is not a problem for you? What about debuff and spreading the buff both which only affects allies/mobs within cast range?

No, no it is not a problem. Debuff has never been the main point of the ability anyway. No one would not notice if it didn't even have the debuff.

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

No offense, but I think you haven't played Valk extensivly. This skill is 102% useless for number of reasons. 

To the first part, i don't know how i would respond to that without going into my hours between both of my accounts. 2nd part that is just not true. But i am open for change to it.

2 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Hysteria demand complete overhaul, proper integration into the melee 3.0 and removing of cancer that is her invisability. Operator and any proper melee can and will outperform Hysteria without broken any mechanics getting in your way

No, it doesn't need a complete overhaul, just a bit more of a revisit. And redesign of a stance. I'd recommend checking Yamazukis idea (on a 2nd page incase this goes to 3rd), as in my opinion that's really good revisit of Valkyr.

 

[Teridax68]

6 hours ago, rs_sakuras said:

I feel like those changes would completly change her, that armor buff is a big part of her damage reduction (while you're outside Hysteria) that's not something i would remove. Her invincibility is something that kind of needs to get out. It's a ability that is practicly impossible to get right when it needs to be balanced in game.

I would recomend checking what Yamazuki suggested (the one above you.) Atleast personally that's a suggestion i really like. 

I think the real issue here isn't that you're afraid of Valkyr being changed too much, but that you only want Valkyr to change in the very specific direction you personally want, even if that direction does in fact change her significantly. To compare, the three main changes between my proposal and current Valkyr are:

• Ripline always dashes
• War Cry gives LS and not armor (which doesn't need to happen, tbh)
• Hysteria drains health and not Energy (which also doesn't need to happen)

Effectively, the core kit would be the same, the rest would just be buffs. By contrast, the kit you're endorsing proposes the following:

• Ripline always dashes (same as mine)
• War Cry no longer grants attack speed
• Paralysis gets completely replaced by a damage reduction + life steal steroid
• Hysteria loses its damage immunity

Not only would those suggestions alter Valkyr far more significantly than anything I proposed, they'd remove the bits of her kit that are largely considered to be her identity, namely her attack speed buff and her invulnerability. I'm confused as to why you'd consider yourself a fan of Valkyr when your two stances in this thread so far have been to either refuse any buffs to her that she clearly needs, or advocate to change her into a completely different warframe.

[rs_sakuras]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

I think the real issue here isn't that you're afraid of Valkyr being changed too much, but that you only want Valkyr to change in the very specific direction you personally want, even if that direction does in fact change her significantly. To compare, the three main changes between my proposal and current Valkyr are:

• Ripline always dashes
• War Cry gives LS and not armor (which doesn't need to happen, tbh)
• Hysteria drains health and not Energy (which also doesn't need to happen)

Effectively, the core kit would be the same, the rest would just be buffs. By contrast, the kit you're endorsing proposes the following:

• Ripline always dashes (same as mine)
• War Cry no longer grants attack speed
• Paralysis gets completely replaced by a damage reduction + life steal steroid
• Hysteria loses its damage immunity

Not only would those suggestions alter Valkyr far more significantly than anything I proposed, they'd remove the bits of her kit that are largely considered to be her identity, namely her attack speed buff and her invulnerability. I'm confused as to why you'd consider yourself a fan of Valkyr when your two stances in this thread so far have been to either refuse any buffs to her that she clearly needs, or advocate to change her into a completely different warframe.

I don't really mind Valkyr being changed, Mostly i'm scared of the fact if she changes too much from Valkyr i "fell in love with". Ideal type of rework for her (atleast imo) would be a limbo type rework if you remember that one. They completly reworked everything about him yet still managed to keep him the same.

From my point of view, Valkyrs identity has always been a massive armor, attack speed and claws. I have never seen Invulnerability as part of her identity and atleast personally i was always against it, even back when they first added it (it wasn't always there). However that core identity i mentioned in last sentence is what i'm trying to hold in her. 

Few pointers:

Changing ripline to targeted pounce you suggested would affect her mid air mobility, However if it was still a ripline but also included the effect of opening enemy to finisher if you target it on mob. That would still keep the essence of the ability and keep it as a useful mobility tool (even though some people might disagree with that)

On a Warcry suggestion, taking armor away from would break her core identity. Taking away the attack speed and replacing it with permanent slow aura (in a range) would in a sense keep the same effect of attack speed in it.

On a Paralysis suggestion i like it, with increased range (and cost obviously) it would be an interesting ability to use. However i'm not entirly sure how you mean the new augment to work

On Hysteria, this is a problem ability in current state in more ways than one. Which mainly stems from Invincibility.

On game design aspect, it's a type of mechanic in game like warframe that is almost impossible to be balanced properly, either you make it too strong or too weak, it either drains too much energy or doesn't drain enough. While in theory i'm sure it can be made to work. In gameplay aspect not so much. (I'm saying almost impossible, maybe DE might find somehow a way to make it work)

Now a bit more heavily on gameplay aspect, having the invincibility on it kind of creates this safety net for you where your attitude while using it is a little counter against Valkyrs theme overall as it promotes this "I'm in no real hurry here even though i have a short range melee weapon i can just take my time". While if it was removed it would create certain urgency as you have a powerfull short range melee weapons on you but you could still die if you don't utilise their lifesteal fast enough.

I hope i explained this well, my english isn't very good so if some part might sound "cocky" i don't really mean it that way. But i hope what i tried to say atleast came across.

[(PSN)HynvictSanngRa]

4 hours ago, Tsuana said:

It'll never die. It's an adorable meme and I'll fight you on that.

As long as it remains a meme:

On 2021-02-04 at 12:59 AM, (PSN)HynvictSanngRa said:

and then we have people saying she should have Khora's cat on her kit

Peace. Yet I still dislike the joke after so many years of hearing it.

 

56 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

 

Don't take me wrong, I know the ability needs help / has minimum uses, but I still like it. It has come to the point I consider Valk a swiss knife which has some knives with a blunt edge and the rest somewhat / poorly polished, so I would prefer to fix instead of getting rid of them.

Also perhaps the Riplines are chains she wields along her bonds, but instead of using them to lash or something she uses them as harpoons (?). Mental gymnastic I made when I started playing Valk since I didn't understand the Riplines either. Some things are weird, like Excal shooting javelins.

 

1 hour ago, rs_sakuras said:

...just a bit more of a revisit. And redesign of a stance.

 

Brick by brick pyramids were made.

1 hour ago, rs_sakuras said:

No, no it is not a problem. Debuff has never been the main point of the ability anyway. No one would not notice if it didn't even have the debuff.

Brick by brick.

The slow has uses and a lot of potential even if not the main point, specially with its base numbers along the range it covers. And the constant AoE slow would somewhat turn her into a cold chroma, with all the beneficts that implies.

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

I don't really mind Valkyr being changed, Mostly i'm scared of the fact if she changes too much from Valkyr i "fell in love with". Ideal type of rework for her (atleast imo) would be a limbo type rework if you remember that one. They completly reworked everything about him yet still managed to keep him the same.

From my point of view, Valkyrs identity has always been a massive armor, attack speed and claws. I have never seen Invulnerability as part of her identity and atleast personally i was always against it, even back when they first added it (it wasn't always there). However that core identity i mentioned in last sentence is what i'm trying to hold in her. 

The version of Valkyr you became attached to has now only been around for a small fraction of her life span. Her invulnerability is part of her current identity, whether you like it or not. You can certainly ask to change that for design reasons, but you don't really get to claim you're defending Valkyr's identity when the "identity" you're defending changed long ago.

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

Few pointers:

Changing ripline to targeted pounce you suggested would affect her mid air mobility, However if it was still a ripline but also included the effect of opening enemy to finisher if you target it on mob. That would still keep the essence of the ability and keep it as a useful mobility tool (even though some people might disagree with that)

Sure, no reason to restrict the dash to enemies.

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

On a Warcry suggestion, taking armor away from would break her core identity. Taking away the attack speed and replacing it with permanent slow aura (in a range) would in a sense keep the same effect of attack speed in it.

Warcry already slows enemies. Turning it into an aura would certainly improve the effect, but I don't think one can reasonably argue that it substitutes for an attack speed buff, as it's nowhere near the same effect. You're gonna have to explain to me a bit more why taking the armor out of Valkyr's AoE steroid would "break her core identity", given that she's usually the only one to truly benefit from that bonus armor, and only when out of Hysteria.

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

On a Paralysis suggestion i like it, with increased range (and cost obviously) it would be an interesting ability to use. However i'm not entirly sure how you mean the new augment to work

It's a throwaway suggestion, but the basic idea is that every time you dealt damage, each enemy affected by Paralysis would take, say 30% of that damage, or some other number. Effectively, your single-target damage would be given an AoE component, which would mesh with Valkyr generally being good at meleeing single opponents with her short-ranged claws.

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

On Hysteria, this is a problem ability in current state in more ways than one. Which mainly stems from Invincibility.

On game design aspect, it's a type of mechanic in game like warframe that is almost impossible to be balanced properly, either you make it too strong or too weak, it either drains too much energy or doesn't drain enough. While in theory i'm sure it can be made to work. In gameplay aspect not so much. (I'm saying almost impossible, maybe DE might find somehow a way to make it work)

I can agree that invincibility is a potent effect that can often be difficult to balance around, but that's why I suggested a health drain. At the end of the day, Valkyr is by no means the only frame who can become invulnerable to damage and status: Rhino can soak up hundreds of thousands of damage at a time with Iron Skin, Harrow provides AoE invulnerability, and Revenant's Mesmer Skin can be continually refreshed while active. None of those frames are even top-tier. Really, this feels more like a residue of the storm in a teacup that happened when Valkyr originally received invulnerability on Hysteria, which has aged poorly in a climate where that sort of stuff really isn't a big deal anymore.

1 minute ago, rs_sakuras said:

Now a bit more heavily on gameplay aspect, having the invincibility on it kind of creates this safety net for you where your attitude while using it is a little counter against Valkyrs theme overall as it promotes this "I'm in no real hurry here even though i have a short range melee weapon i can just take my time". While if it was removed it would create certain urgency as you have a powerfull short range melee weapons on you but you could still die if you don't utilise their lifesteal fast enough.

On one hand, that's certainly a problem a health drain would solve ("If you don't constantly life steal you'll die"), but on the other, I also don't feel invincibility really encourages taking one's time. If nothing else, it encourages Valkyr to dive into the fray without fear of getting blown up, something mere armor wouldn't really guarantee. I can agree that there's sometimes the problem of Valkyr popping invincibility then running away, but once again, that's also an issue that would be brought about by any armor or DR steroid.

 

[(PSN)thegarada]

None of these fixes fix anything.

I, and  nearly everyone, according to do statistics, dropped ripline for another skill from Heleminth. This skill is garbage in every context. Even for mobility, I dropped this skill for fire walker:

Opening enemies to finishers? Who gives a S#&$. I could kill them instantly in melee. Paralysis is not the worst, but it is useless.

I don’t have issues with hysteria on live. It could use a slight buff. It will never be as effective as top tier melee weapon with riven. At least the invincibility can be used to cheese some stuff. Losing it for... useless healing, that I can do for free via operator? No thanks.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

It will never be as effective as top tier melee weapon with riven. At least the invincibility can be used to cheese some stuff. Losing it for... useless healing, that I can do for free via operator? No thanks.

This seems like a great reason to nerf melee and operator healing arcanes then. If the operators make any healing ability "useless healing", then clearly the operator is the issue here. And if we can't make an energy draining exalted weapon more useful than your normal melee without causing severe power creep, maybe we should take a look at melee's power.

We definitely should not design our frames around the powerful outliers, otherwise we have to make every frame nearly identical because every other design choice is redundant because of the outliers.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Valkyr isn't versatile. But does she need to be? 

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

Valkyr isn't versatile. But does she need to be? 

How does making her a better melee only Warframe make her versatile? It's often suggested she get improvement to her mobility, cc and her claws. None of that increases her versatility, it just makes her do what she already does, but better. Added versatility would be asking for Warcry to buff guns or reworking her in some silly way that allows her to heal allies. No one reasonable is asking for Valkyr to be turned into Wisp 2.0.

[(PSN)thegarada]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

This seems like a great reason to nerf melee and operator healing arcanes then. If the operators make any healing ability "useless healing", then clearly the operator is the issue here. And if we can't make an energy draining exalted weapon more useful than your normal melee without causing severe power creep, maybe we should take a look at melee's power.

We definitely should not design our frames around the powerful outliers, otherwise we have to make every frame nearly identical because every other design choice is redundant because of the outliers.

I agree with you. Nevertheless, hysteria main benefit is the invincibility. Barring some major change in the game design, removing that, especially without adequate compensation, is a major nerf.

As for exalted weapons, from a business sense DE would not want them to be stronger than melee weapons. No parts to farm and build (or buy). No rivens. It is not a question of good or bad design, but realistic expectations. If we pitch our tent in the exalted weapons damage we will lose.

And yes, operator healing and invincibility through void mode are balance issues, but we cannot ignore them. They have a major impact on the game and balance. If the frame main value is things that operator can provide, why use the frame at all? And changing these values requires major design in the game damage output and scaling.

Point is, let’s focus on realistic changes that are helpful within the game current design, not the one we hope the game might become. Valkyr is lacking, but the OP suggestions do not provide solutions to any of her issues.

[Andele3025]

As said multiple times before:
Fix 1 enemy pull to bring enemy to you as advertised and in preview+trailer instead of raw infinite acceleration,
Fix 1 self pull by removing the momentum kill that happens 1/3rd the way in (that should be on the enemy pull bit) and make its augment instead give you a reset of aimglide+double jump on use
Fix Hysteria to no longer reward cowardice by removing whole LOS bit and instead making the damage stored leak to HP if you dont fight, but be lifesteal/finisher reducible/clearable.
Revert hysteria stance to no longer stutter derp due to the stance butchering and its default heavy to be the rapid clawing.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

3 hours ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

Valkyr is lacking, but the OP suggestions do not provide solutions to any of her issues.

Firstly, I completely agree. I don't think OP's suggestions do anything to help Valkyr, who needs buffs across her entire kit. I just think that the top tier stuff shouldn't intrude in design, rather design should bring down the top tier stuff.

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

As for exalted weapons, from a business sense DE would not want them to be stronger than melee weapons. No parts to farm and build (or buy). No rivens. It is not a question of good or bad design, but realistic expectations. If we pitch our tent in the exalted weapons damage we will lose.

I can definitely see why you'd think this because it is somewhat true. Prime weapons are typically the strongest in their field. so it'd make sense that they're so strong to make sales. Having exalted weapons that are more powerful than melee weapons doesn't detract from the normal melee weapons because exalteds are limited to a single frame, along with having an energy cost. I also suggest that melee in general be nerfed, since it drastically outshines primary and secondary weapons.

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

And yes, operator healing and invincibility through void mode are balance issues, but we cannot ignore them. They have a major impact on the game and balance. If the frame main value is things that operator can provide, why use the frame at all? And changing these values requires major design in the game damage output and scaling.

 It's mainly the operator arcanes that are the issue. Magus Repair could be made slower or have less healing per pulse, and Magus Elevate could be given a cooldown. Very easy changes that make healing abilities within Warframe kits actually valuable. Vazarin still requires you to commit to that tree, so it is balanced in that regard.

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:53 AM, Teridax68 said:

To compare, the three main changes between my proposal and current Valkyr are:

• Ripline always dashes
• War Cry gives LS and not armor (which doesn't need to happen, tbh)
• Hysteria drains health and not Energy (which also doesn't need to happen)

This is actually one of the more solid suggestions I've seen.

I personally don't like Ripline, I think it's hot garbage. I've suggested elsewhere replacing it with a targeted leap ability that does AOE damage on contact. 

Your Warcry change I had never considered, as the only problem I ever really had was that the slow is relatively useless ( I'm in the whole "it should act as an aura" boat myself). But, swapping LS in would be problematic considering the augment. You'd effectively need no healing source, even if it only gave 1% due to the damage you can put out. However, if they could find a way to balance it, I'd be all over that. 

Hysteria draining HP would make it interesting, if you could factor in the aforementioned Warcry LS balancing. But if you always run Eternal War, you'd effectively be able to remain in Hysteria forever- unless they also made the Enraged argument a part of the kit. Give the ability a set timer effected by duration. 

On the draining HP note, I also feel like Paralysis should drain it instead of shields. No one builds Valkyr for shields, so by the time you're in a situation to use it you don't have any left 

[rs_sakuras]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)XLambentZerkerX said:

But if you always run Eternal War, you'd effectively be able to remain in Hysteria forever

You're currently even with currently able to stay in hysteria forever

[(XBOX)XLambentZerkerX]

1 hour ago, rs_sakuras said:

You're currently even with currently able to stay in hysteria forever

I was referring to the idea of using HP drain for Hysteria vs Mana specifically, I know you can (sort of) keep it going forever currently. But that requires a specific mod setup to do so, and as of now I don't personally see why you would