Hema's Cost, Mutagen Sample Drop Rate & Availability

[Flan-Flan]

31 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't know.  There's frequently Arbitrations on Deimos.  I just did 20 minutes and got 150.  I had a resource booster.  But no Smeeta and no lootframe.   And I don't think that's even an especially large amount.  And just goofing around on Deimos doing bounties or whatever I get a lot too. 

I got the Hema solo, and most of my progress happened fast after Deimos, even though I never played Deimos hard.  I'm probably more patient than most players should be expected to be, and I'm not saying you're wrong about the requirement being absurd.  Just that you'll never get there only if you decide not to bother.  (And if you stick around the game long enough, you'll get it even then.)

I'm MR30 and have been playing since like 2013, I've contributed just over 2000 mutagen samples to my clan dojo which isn't even close to enough. But no, you're right, I should just 'stick around longer'.

But as I said, this isn't about me, the Hema is a problem. None of you have successfully refuted this fact.

8 hours ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

You keep saying that. The fact I, as a solo clan, completed this research by simply cracking open resource crates in Cambion Drift over the course of about a month (without doing any specific farming whatsoever), completely disproves your opinion. Maybe I'm an outlier, but even so, if you were actively farming them, it could be quicker.

Your so called "mathematical proof" from your original post seems to focus entirely on an outdated and inefficient farming strategy. You should really just forget about that method entirely. You may as well be complaining that Iso Vaults are a poor option for farming void traces.

I strongly suggest you simply run around Cambiom drift cracking open crates. Take Xaku if you want to make it a bit easier. Hopefully then you'll start to understand just how easy they are to get. It seems as though your entire argument is based on a false premise.

A month long farm is utterly ridiculous for any item, let alone this one. The item itself is an outlier. It should be fixed. It does not consistently match up with any of the other item costs in the dojo, and SHOULD be brought in line with the rest of them, for the sake of consistency if not for all the other facts I have laid out within this thread time and time again.

[Tiltskillet]

37 minutes ago, Flan-Flan said:

But as I said, this isn't about me, the Hema is a problem. None of you have successfully refuted this fact.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to refute it, nor do I desire to.  It just sounded like the person I was responding to--which wasn't you, by the way--thought it was hopeless, and that I do disagree with.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

48 minutes ago, Flan-Flan said:

A month long farm is utterly ridiculous for any item, let alone this one.

If you just want the weapon, I'd imagine it's much faster to just buy it with plat. The research is/was just for bragging rights. And as I said, I wasn't farming it at all. It would be much faster if I had been.

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

If you just want the weapon, I'd imagine it's much faster to just buy it with plat. The research is/was just for bragging rights. And as I said, I wasn't farming it at all. It would be much faster if I had been.

Would it ?

You won't know until you try it... 👀

 

[cghawk]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't know.  There's frequently Arbitrations on Deimos.  I just did 20 minutes and got 150.  I had a resource booster.  But no Smeeta and no lootframe.   And I don't think that's even an especially large amount.  And just goofing around on Deimos doing bounties or whatever I get a lot too. 

I got the Hema solo, and most of my progress happened fast after Deimos, even though I never played Deimos hard.  I'm probably more patient than most players should be expected to be, and I'm not saying you're wrong about the requirement being absurd.  Just that you'll never get there only if you decide not to bother.  (And if you stick around the game long enough, you'll get it even then.)

I don't even know what arbitrations are but I shouldn't need to do that in specific to get that many. I can do 2 hours of excavation bounty on deimos and get maybe 30 mutagen samples, that's not much for 2 hours of work.

[Tiltskillet]

15 hours ago, cghawk said:

I don't even know what arbitrations are but I shouldn't need to do that in specific to get that many. I can do 2 hours of excavation bounty on deimos and get maybe 30 mutagen samples, that's not much for 2 hours of work.

I'm confused.  Are you still finishing the Star Chart?  Don't worry about Arbitrations then,   They just happen to be an infrequent occurrence that happens to be good both for decent rewards and for samples.

But 30 samples for two hours of work sounds quite bad compared to just doing Hyf or Terrorem.   Because I was curious, I just did  Terrorem solo with no loot ability and got  46.  I did have a resource booster (no blessing) plus Smeeta, but the kicker is...that was only 20 minutes.   And once you open up Steel Path and can deal with with the more difficult enemies, it's better than that.

I'm really just trying to point out that there are ways to do this that are both faster and easier.   And probably more likely to succeed than persuading DE to change the Hema requirement after all these years, although more power to you if you can manage it.

[L3512]

On 2021-03-24 at 12:28 PM, Voltage said:

I did read it. You can't make feedback and silence players for being in a demographic you rather not hear from. A fresh account has the same shot at Hema as I do. Sure, my hours were put in earlier in the game, but I would argue my hours would actually be more than a player now. Why? Because now we have True Master's Font giving an additional booster, Steel Path giving an additional booster, Steel Path's increased spawn mechanics, Pilfering Strangledome on Khora who can deal heavy hits of Slash damage, Helminth, and more. When I farmed for Hema, it was Hydroid (who likely needed Banshee in long runs due to being terrible at killing in long runs), Nekros, Smeeta (which was relatively new at the time), and the classic boosters. The effectiveness in farming for Mutagen Samples has actually grown in modern Warframe, especially with Warframe Revised nerfing enemy scaling heavily. 

The "actual grind" as you put it is still easier. You just want Hema lowered because you feel that the research is too much for you. I disagreed with the post and left my opinions why. Your decision to not farm for it is your own. New players still have a leg up farming Hema compared to a new player in 2016.

With both booster but not True Master's Font, solo pilferdome khora and smeeta at SP Terrorem you are looking at about 500 mutagen samples per hour.

So a single player will complete Hema in about ten hours while also netting at least 600SE, at least 10-12 million nano spores and something like 200 riven slivers minimum.

This really is not a big deal even solo.

 

Oh and we don't need derelict keys anymore.

Second edit, this thread is old. 🤦‍♀️

[Uhkretor]

On 2021-03-23 at 7:50 AM, Flan-Flan said:

I think the cost for Hema should either be reduced (15,000 shadow clan cost is absurd for anyone that doesn't have 'grandfathered' materials ready for it), or the drop rate for Mutagen Sample should be increased.

The intention of the entire Clan research system is that literally all members are required to minimize grinding sessions...

 

A Ghost Clan is supposed to have 10 active members.

A Shadow Clan is supposed to have 30 active members.

A Storm Clan is supposed to have 100 active members.

... See the pattern here?

 

If the Clan you're in is a Shadow Clan and there are only 2 or 3 active members, then perhaps its a good idea to reduce its size to Ghost, if you have the privileges for it?... I don't know, I might be outlandishly crazy in thinking that being a Shadow Clan just for the sake of bringing members in isn't going to fly and the only thing that will decide if members are more likely to join or not joining (or leaving, if they do get in) is whether Hema is already researched or not...

... Save yourself the trouble... If you're grinding your ass off for 15000 Mutagen Samples, just reduce the size to Ghost and do the same for 5000. You'll take 3x less time for it, too.

 

Edit:

29 minutes ago, L3512 said:

Second edit, this thread is old.

... Seems like I missed that too. 🤣

[Josh486]

38 minutes ago, L3512 said:

With both booster but not True Master's Font, solo pilferdome khora and smeeta at SP Terrorem you are looking at about 500 mutagen samples per hour.

So a single player will complete Hema in about ten hours while also netting at least 600SE, at least 10-12 million nano spores and something like 200 riven slivers minimum.

This really is not a big deal even solo.

 

Oh and we don't need derelict keys anymore.

Second edit, this thread is old. 🤦‍♀️

10 hours isn’t a lot for a single weapon when the average resources to research a weapon take like 20 minutes to get? Really?

[Voltage]

13 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

10 hours isn’t a lot for a single weapon when the average resources to research a weapon take like 20 minutes to get? Really?

The game isn't a race. There's a 10 month gap in the OP and the update response and that is more than enough time to finish Hema. Not finishing Hema is up to OP, not the game. The cost for Hema is reasonable.

I posted initially in March 2021 a screenshot of my 58.9k Mutagen Samples. I have 61.6k now and I have only played actively with no motivation to farm this resource (I even occasionally use Mutagen Samples when feeding Helminth too). Not to mention both Nights of Naberus and Aya favored running Deimos Bounties repeatedly (which is probably where my surplus ~2.7k came from even though I only really touched Naberus).

The whole "problem" still resides in players expecting easy research and pointing fingers at others instead of getting it done.

You don't need to finish Hema in one sitting, and multiple months is plenty of time if you're relatively active.

[L3512]

4 hours ago, Josh486 said:

10 hours isn’t a lot for a single weapon when the average resources to research a weapon take like 20 minutes to get? Really?

In the grand scheme yeah though @Voltage sums it up nicely.

That's one person as well, a ghost clan can have up to ten people so that's an hour each, two people can use a Nekros and Khora and complete it quicker than five hours.

 

People also want/will want SE so they can passively farm samples at the same time, an hour long survival is pretty much the same anywhere and chat always has groups looking for Khora/Nekros/Nova/Wisp.

[BlackAce]

On 2021-03-24 at 11:27 PM, LillyRaccune said:

Look at what a complaining attitude as achived? *Railjack 3.0 crew members wave hello while I'm AFK brewing coffee.*

Too real man.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

You don't need to finish Hema in one sitting, and multiple months is plenty of time if you're relatively active.

I have 1000 Hours Of Play Time That Says Otherwise.... I didn't get The Hema until I went out of my way to get it....

Mutagen Samples don't Build Up Passively like other Resources Do... Atleast they didn't for me.....

1 hour ago, acevezwing said:

On 2021-03-24 at 6:27 PM, LillyRaccune said:

Look at what a complaining attitude as achived? *Railjack 3.0 crew members wave hello while I'm AFK brewing coffee.*

Too real man.

Not Really....

You don't Get Any Affinity from Crew Member Kills...

 

Hence some players have gone as Far as just simply not using them just to get Affinity Again.... Which... I mean.... Seeker Volley can Single Handedly take out All Fighters Anyway.... 👀

 

[Venefik]

 Me and my friend have a (mostly) duo clan. We unlocked the Hema, after a pretty miserable experience grinding for samples, a good chunk of time before Deimos dropped. After Deimos launched, I grinded for mostly everything the cambion drift has to offer. The only things I don't have are the arcanes, since they don't seem to be very good.

 I am currently sitting at less than 800 mutagen samples, even after spending quite some time in the cambion. My Helminth has probably NEVER tasted mutagen samples.

 My other samples: 13k each. My Helminth regularly consumes both of these.

 "It's fine" 🤪👍

 

 I 100% support the reduction of these costs, even if only for lower clan tiers. For a more reasonable experience for those of us who don't want be forced into a clan to not miss out on gear, or those who want small clans with friends only. Or even for consistency. Hema was the literal only issue me and my friend ever had with dojo research. Everything else was a breeze. We similarly needed many fieldron samples for the Lenz research, which we easily farmed in a couple days, by doing fortuna bounties.

 Furthermore, since someone else pointed out, threads about the hema pop up periodically. I think this is mostly an obvious sign that it's not 'fine'. If anything, infested samples could be, at least, as accessible as the other samples. This would at least mitigate the problem without reducing the """""group effort""""" the research has.

[Josh486]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

The game isn't a race. There's a 10 month gap in the OP and the update response and that is more than enough time to finish Hema. Not finishing Hema is up to OP, not the game. The cost for Hema is reasonable.

I posted initially in March 2021 a screenshot of my 58.9k Mutagen Samples. I have 61.6k now and I have only played actively with no motivation to farm this resource (I even occasionally use Mutagen Samples when feeding Helminth too). Not to mention both Nights of Naberus and Aya favored running Deimos Bounties repeatedly (which is probably where my surplus ~2.7k came from even though I only really touched Naberus).

The whole "problem" still resides in players expecting easy research and pointing fingers at others instead of getting it done.

You don't need to finish Hema in one sitting, and multiple months is plenty of time if you're relatively active.

What? How can you look at the comparative costs of other weapons and say that the cost of the Hema is okay? I’m a Ghost clan and I made the Hema so I’m not just salty that I don’t have it, I’m mad that it’s so stupidly inaccessible when every other clan weapon takes at most what, an hour to farm? That’s not players be lazy that’s setting up an expectation for literally every other weapon and dropping the ball on some random pos health hose because “other people suffered so we can’t change the resource cost sorry.” Just because you “get it over time” doesn’t mean it’s not ridiculous, especially when the resource comes consistently from like one place and is much harder to find everywhere else

[cghawk]

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm confused.  Are you still finishing the Star Chart?  Don't worry about Arbitrations then,   They just happen to be an infrequent occurrence that happens to be good both for decent rewards and for samples.

But 30 samples for two hours of work sounds quite bad compared to just doing Hyf or Terrorem.   Because I was curious, I just did  Terrorem solo with no loot ability and got  46.  I did have a resource booster (no blessing) plus Smeeta, but the kicker is...that was only 20 minutes.   And once you open up Steel Path and can deal with with the more difficult enemies, it's better than that.

I'm really just trying to point out that there are ways to do this that are both faster and easier.   And probably more likely to succeed than persuading DE to change the Hema requirement after all these years, although more power to you if you can manage it.

No I'm not finishing the star chart, I'm nearly 1k hours in, me and my friend just play whatever we find fun, be it excavation on deimos or some random survival on a planet, idk what finishing the star chart has to do with that though. Where would I find these arbitrations then? Because I've never heard of it before now.

Are those planets or are those also hidden things like arbitration? Because I've not heard of Hyf or Terrorem either. 46 with a booster/kavat in 20 is allot better though ouch still a far shot from the 5k we both need. I've not heard of steel path either, another hidden thing?

That's a shame really that they're so stubborn because there really seems no good reason to have it be that expensive.

[Tsukinoki]

40 minutes ago, cghawk said:

No I'm not finishing the star chart, I'm nearly 1k hours in, me and my friend just play whatever we find fun, be it excavation on deimos or some random survival on a planet, idk what finishing the star chart has to do with that though. Where would I find these arbitrations then? Because I've never heard of it before now.

Kinda hard to miss arbitrations and steel path really....but to access them you need to complete every single node in the starchart.

You can read about arbitrations here: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arbitrations
Steel path here: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Steel_Path

41 minutes ago, cghawk said:

Are those planets or are those also hidden things like arbitration? Because I've not heard of Hyf or Terrorem either.

Hyf is a defense mission on Deimos.  Terrorem is a surival.

43 minutes ago, cghawk said:

That's a shame really that they're so stubborn because there really seems no good reason to have it be that expensive.

Part of the reason the Hema costs so much is because it's supposed to be a clanwide effort.  Not a single player effort.
If you have even half of a ghost clan active you only need 1K samples a piece.  This doesn't take too long to farm if you actually attempt to farm it since the drop rates for mutagen samples has gotten massively better since deimos became a thing.

DE priced it so high because at the time there was tons of players complaining:
-We have no use for all the mutagen samples we have
-There is nothing in the clan research that actually takes a clan to research since everything can largely be funded by a very small minority even in the largest clans! (Which is still a valid complaint seeing as how a single player can realistically fund the entirety of a storm clans research by themselves, when that is meant for 100 players to collaboratively work towards)
DE set the price high to answer both of those.  Giving a use to the fairly useless mutagen samples, and putting forward something that generally takes multiple people to properly fund.

[Voltage]

6 hours ago, Josh486 said:

What? How can you look at the comparative costs of other weapons and say that the cost of the Hema is okay? I’m a Ghost clan and I made the Hema so I’m not just salty that I don’t have it, I’m mad that it’s so stupidly inaccessible when every other clan weapon takes at most what, an hour to farm? That’s not players be lazy that’s setting up an expectation for literally every other weapon and dropping the ball on some random pos health hose because “other people suffered so we can’t change the resource cost sorry.” Just because you “get it over time” doesn’t mean it’s not ridiculous, especially when the resource comes consistently from like one place and is much harder to find everywhere else

Research should reflect costs like Hema to encourage clan contribution. Hema's cost is not back-breaking, it's simply higher than usual. 

Like I said 10 months ago in this thread, the enhancements at your disposal to farm resources is leagues better than what players used to farm Hema when it was first added to dojos. It wasn't that bad in 2016 and it's even less in 2022. 

It would be nice if Samples dropped based on enemy type and not planet, but that's been suggested time and time again. Reducing the cost isn't necessary.

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

DE priced it so high because at the time there was tons of players complaining:

-We have no use for all the mutagen samples we have

I seriously doubt that. When the Hema was introduced, I had fully 50x the detonite and fieldron as I did mutagen. Mutagen samples basically didn't drop at all in the normal starchart. Yes, they nominally appeared in Eris, but they were about as rare as neurodes - the actual rare resource there. The only reason I had "so many" was because Ember Prime was farmed in the orokin derelict back then.

If they wanted to pick an excess resource, it would have been detonite or fieldron. But no. They took the clantech resource which people had the least of and made it cost twice as much as everything else put together from all the faction resources. And I seriously doubt that people were clamouring for a use for mutagen explicitly.

[cghawk]

16 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Kinda hard to miss arbitrations and steel path really....but to access them you need to complete every single node in the starchart.

You can read about arbitrations here: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arbitrations
Steel path here: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Steel_Path

Hyf is a defense mission on Deimos.  Terrorem is a surival.

Part of the reason the Hema costs so much is because it's supposed to be a clanwide effort.  Not a single player effort.
If you have even half of a ghost clan active you only need 1K samples a piece.  This doesn't take too long to farm if you actually attempt to farm it since the drop rates for mutagen samples has gotten massively better since deimos became a thing.

DE priced it so high because at the time there was tons of players complaining:
-We have no use for all the mutagen samples we have
-There is nothing in the clan research that actually takes a clan to research since everything can largely be funded by a very small minority even in the largest clans! (Which is still a valid complaint seeing as how a single player can realistically fund the entirety of a storm clans research by themselves, when that is meant for 100 players to collaboratively work towards)
DE set the price high to answer both of those.  Giving a use to the fairly useless mutagen samples, and putting forward something that generally takes multiple people to properly fund.

Idk seems kinda easy to miss to me because I never really saw a reason to complete every single mission on the star chart, especially the junctions, why do them when I already got access to every planet? And why do every single mission if doing the mission doesn't give me anything? Makes no sense to me, though if I had actually known about these hidden things like steel path and arbitration I may have actually done them, so maybe they should work on not hiding/obscuring things so much or if they want to keep it a er''surprise'' then giving a reason to complete every single mission once.

Then something must be wrong or weird with mutagen sample drops, looking at my inventory I have 10541 detonite ampules, 1424 fieldron samples and 358 mutagen samples, looking at my stats: 301k grineer killed, 211k infested killed and 102k corpus killed, only a 100k difference in amount of enemies killed between grineer and infested yet it's 10k vs 358, that doesn't make any sense to me, are mutagen samples just waaaay more limited than the other 2 faction resources? Note I have donated 0 samples to clan so far because no point in donating when we don't have enough yet. Though I do see you say they became massively better so then were mutagen sample drop rates just trash in the past?(took a 3 year break and only recently came back).

Fair enough I suppose though just me and my friend do need to share plenty of researches in the clan to get them done already, researches that require neurodes, oxium or cryotic has to be done between the 2 of us already so I cannot fathom someone funding a storm clan all on their own, they'd have to be some extreme min maxer farming the most efficient way possible.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

1 hour ago, cghawk said:

301k grineer killed, 211k infested killed and 102k corpus killed

Fyi, enemies killed has very little to do with it. Mutagen samples are only available in specific locations (Eris and Deimos/Orokin Derelict). You could've killed 210k infested on Ceres for example, but you'll get absolutely zero mutagen samples.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, cghawk said:

 steel path and arbitration

Yeah, something to work toward now.  I find both Arbitrations and Steel Path very worthwhile.

Really the reason I'm tagging you is that I remembered today's devstream has a random Galvanized mod drop through Twitch..  Unless you've bought them via trading, normally the only source for these is via grinding Arbitrations, and they're extremely useful.  If they sound good to you, hopefully you can watch the stream through a twitch account. 

Galvanized Mods

Devstream

Info about Twitch drops and linking your Warframe account

 

[Steel_Rook]

I posted about this earlier in the thread I think, but I'm really confused here. Were we talking about this before the addition of Deimos I would agree. Farming Mutagen Samples on the Orokin Derelict is ridiculously tedious and boring. I too did it with a friend (and a resource booster) back in the day. Now, though? Mutagen Samples seem like a pretty common drop on Deimos, so just running random Bounties (including Iso Bounties) has given me more of the things than I know what to do with. Now that you can get Mutagen Samples from mainline content... what remains the issue? Or am I missing something?

Mind you, it's still a grind - what isn't in this game? Certainly not defending it, make no mistake. Grind is not content. It just doesn't seem that out-of-scope with the rest of the RNG grind in this game.

[Flan-Flan]

On 2022-01-28 at 3:58 AM, Voltage said:

Research should reflect costs like Hema to encourage clan contribution. Hema's cost is not back-breaking, it's simply higher than usual. 

Like I said 10 months ago in this thread, the enhancements at your disposal to farm resources is leagues better than what players used to farm Hema when it was first added to dojos. It wasn't that bad in 2016 and it's even less in 2022. 

It would be nice if Samples dropped based on enemy type and not planet, but that's been suggested time and time again. Reducing the cost isn't necessary.

Hema is an anomaly that should be excised. Oh, or I guess we could equalize it, bring everything else up to spec, make it so everything costs obscene amounts of resources, that way nobody could ever build anything, that'd make it so clans are even more useless than ever. You'd never start a dojo under pain of resource farming for the rest of your life. Imagine farming Hema-like resources for the like half dozen Warframes in the Tenno Lab. It would not be fun. Clans and dojos themselves have multiple problems, but that is not within the purview of this thread. Thus, your comments are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The fact remains that 99% of the items in the dojo do not cost obscene amounts of a single resource you can only obtain through consistent farming.

Thus, Hema should be brought inline with the rest of them.

Case closed.

[Voltage]

26 minutes ago, Flan-Flan said:

Hema is an anomaly that should be excised. Oh, or I guess we could equalize it, bring everything else up to spec, make it so everything costs obscene amounts of resources, that way nobody could ever build anything, that'd make it so clans are even more useless than ever. You'd never start a dojo under pain of resource farming for the rest of your life. Imagine farming Hema-like resources for the like half dozen Warframes in the Tenno Lab. It would not be fun. Clans and dojos themselves have multiple problems, but that is not within the purview of this thread. Thus, your comments are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The fact remains that 99% of the items in the dojo do not cost obscene amounts of a single resource you can only obtain through consistent farming.

Thus, Hema should be brought inline with the rest of them.

Case closed.

This thread is going in circles because you're unwilling to accept or even acknowledge why things are the way they are and the counter-points presented. You could have easily gotten Hema in the 10 months between your OP and update post and that is on you, not DE. Players here have offered countless helpful tips to help you and other players who still do not have Hema, but as the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink".