There is no reason to put Oberon and Ash in Railjack

[hdevansiv]

Not to derail things -- but how do you feel about Defection?  The Manics in there still drop Ash parts as of earlier today. (Probably an oversight in the drop tables but still.)

[FireSegment]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

A weak argument justifying bad decision. And it doesn't matter if those three mission types never got the big screen. They exist as grim reminder to what DE does with game modes like a kid does with a toy they're bored with.

.... DE doesn't get "bored" with the game mode, the game mode failed to gain enough traction from the player to justify further development effort. There's a different, and again, it's a whole different topic.

So far you make no respond any of my original arguments that showed the logic from the dev perspective, you choose to respond to my one off-handed comment about other mission type, and seem to be only interesting in demonizing DE... Why exactly? 

Warframe's drop locations got switched around multiple times in the past, and the sky still haven't fall, new player still come and go. Bad mission types got resurrected or retired multiple times in the past, we are still here. We players only remember what didn't work, all of us shared that big skewed bias toward not remembering what does works, and what did got better. The difference here is that i don't believe you are making good faith criticism in this thread, while don't even seem to realize your own bias. 

[Wheelhouser]

15 hours ago, FireSegment said:

I have to admit that i have bias that make the way i view new player experience is not accurate by a long shot. Being a new player back at 2016 and now isn't the same thing after all.

Yet, the perspective you gave me so far only added the point that Oberon is much more valuable than his non-existent grind effort before the change. From the dev perspective, he should be a harder frame to get than ... say ... hydroid for example, don't you think? 

And i did say that i also hate a frame reward being put in rot C defense. The only possible silver lining from that is they might add some other thing that make RJ def worth grinding in the future since RJ still not solidify what kind of reward are to be expected from it. (like somehow became a new hydron for example, but that's too hopeful)

Oberon is a valuable new player frame.  He should be available to new players.  He's not a valuable late game frame.  He can of course be used where ever, but a player with the option to use any frame will likely always choose another.  Oberon's value comes early when a new player has no mods, no resources, and little group mates.  Clearing the starmap, especially the early planets, often results in solo missions, or paired with a single other new player, with neither having good mods, access to spoiler mode, arcanes, or anything we would consider "good".  That's when Oberon's healing (and Rhino being tanky) are the most valuable in the game.  For me, it would make a ton more sense if Earth's boss wasn't a later game boss, and Oberon was there.  Or something.  I don't know.  But putting him where only end-game players can get him (as he is now) means no one will ever use him when he's most useful.  End game players might still find use for him in Eidolons if they choose him over someone else, but that's it.  If I got him now, I would level to 30 and set aside, as I can already do everything he can, but better (I have Wisp).  But early his healing came at a time when a new player would be dying a lot due to health loss.  I would say he should definitely drop across the first three planets.

I am glad they put nothing I need as rewards for the defenses, as I think it's horrid that there are defenses in Railjack.  If they put something I wanted/needed there, I would just end up hating playing whatever nodes were unkind to me with drops.  I still don't understand why Corpus Proxima Railjack missions are 80% non-Railjack gameplay.

[Wheelhouser]

1 hour ago, FireSegment said:

We players only remember what didn't work, all of us shared that big skewed bias toward not remembering what does works, and what did got better

One thing I fail to understand is how DE doesn't see that new modes/activities/etc won't work when they release them.  Some things that come out are just bad.  From day one.  I've only been playing since Aug 2020 (I did play for ~6 months PS4 in 2015 - it was before even the Orbiter existed), so I wasn't around for most things when they came out.

But my understanding is that Railjack 1.0 was bad.  Bug filled.  Railjack 2.0 was generally considered fun but pointless.  No reason to play unless you wanted to build a Railjack or run Gian Point (which got you affinity and credits but nothing else).  And now I see Railjack 3.0 generally considered an improvement in some regards but also heavily criticized in others.

Deimos Necralisk vaults came out when I started playing, and the update to them later.  I have yet to see anyone say the updated versions are an improvement on the initial vaults.  They're just too long with the drop rates they have to be worth it.

But also I know that players will run things they consider not fun to get the drops.  Does anyone consider Harrow farming fun?  I can't imagine anyone does.  But I did farm him up.  I know no one that thinks any of the Archwing missions fun (I'm sure there are some), but I know people run them to level their AWs.

It makes me wonder how much DE even considers fun when adding content.  Or if they just look at how many times a mission is run.  They definitely don't consider releasing bug-free content a priority, as everything has blatantly obvious day one bugs (10 patches in a week or so just for RJ 3.0).

Back in 2015 the warframe combat was amazingly fun.  It still is.  Not much added since is really what I would consider "fun" to play, though.  Railjack skirmishes are one thing I definitely think are fun, though.  Just wish there was more Railjack in the Corpus Proxima.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

5 hours ago, hdevansiv said:

Not to derail things -- but how do you feel about Defection?  The Manics in there still drop Ash parts as of earlier today. (Probably an oversight in the drop tables but still.)

manics still drop ash parts?

Also defection is boring. And so are all the other 'unique' unused game modes that isn't index.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

On 2021-04-08 at 3:18 PM, Wheelhouser said:

One thing I fail to understand is how DE doesn't see that new modes/activities/etc won't work when they release them.  Some things that come out are just bad.  From day one.  I've only been playing since Aug 2020 (I did play for ~6 months PS4 in 2015 - it was before even the Orbiter existed), so I wasn't around for most things when they came out.

But my understanding is that Railjack 1.0 was bad.  Bug filled.  Railjack 2.0 was generally considered fun but pointless.  No reason to play unless you wanted to build a Railjack or run Gian Point (which got you affinity and credits but nothing else).  And now I see Railjack 3.0 generally considered an improvement in some regards but also heavily criticized in others.

Deimos Necralisk vaults came out when I started playing, and the update to them later.  I have yet to see anyone say the updated versions are an improvement on the initial vaults.  They're just too long with the drop rates they have to be worth it.

But also I know that players will run things they consider not fun to get the drops.  Does anyone consider Harrow farming fun?  I can't imagine anyone does.  But I did farm him up.  I know no one that thinks any of the Archwing missions fun (I'm sure there are some), but I know people run them to level their AWs.

It makes me wonder how much DE even considers fun when adding content.  Or if they just look at how many times a mission is run.  They definitely don't consider releasing bug-free content a priority, as everything has blatantly obvious day one bugs (10 patches in a week or so just for RJ 3.0).

Back in 2015 the warframe combat was amazingly fun.  It still is.  Not much added since is really what I would consider "fun" to play, though.  Railjack skirmishes are one thing I definitely think are fun, though.  Just wish there was more Railjack in the Corpus Proxima.

I'm beginning to believe the doom posters when they say. Insane/boring Grind = Just Buy Plat tenno.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

Railjack is back to it's old unpopulated state. That last update did more to kill any hype than it's meant to bring. It's still buggy, and one of the worse decisions this game has ever made still stands today.

 

[Vaml77]

the entire update corpus railjack its a big fail in my opinion.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Can't find a good reason to incentivize players to play new game mode

 

DE:

I know! instead of putting some fresh new rewards in it, we'll take back something that was already easily available and stick it in there.

players won't realize that we're giving them something they already had!

[(PSN)I_graviton_I]

They can keep putting new frames in RJ all they want and I'm just gonna keep buying them with plat. I've farmed for frames that some would consider a PITA. Gauss, Nidus, Mesa, Equinox, Harrow, khora, bounty frames, all primes including all of the mats to build those frames like when I once spent 2 weeks getting Nitain for Vauban Prime before nightwave was a thing. Done it all.

I'm not opposed to a grind, I just dislike the Railjack game mode and that's fine. Not everyone has to like the same stuff. I play WF for the, well, Warframes. I like the bread and butter "boots on the ground" gameplay of frames with weapons and abilities. Some game modes I prefer over others but I like the variety because it gives different frames a chance to shine. If I wanted to play a game with space combat I wouldn't play WF that's for sure. I think the biggest reason why Archwing/Sharkwing and Railjack have largely been failures is because most people like Warframe for what it is and that being the boots on the ground gameplay with different mission types.

They are definitely trying to improve RJ and who knows, maybe I'll actually enjoy it one day but I'm not counting on it to be honest. I still never touch Archwing.

And as far as frames go, I hope Sevagoth is the last one we see as an exclusive RJ frame. They only ever did Atlas for Archwing and they said they've got a new method for acquiring Yareli so who knows. Maybe I'll save some plat. 

[(NSW)Dangruff]

On 2021-05-15 at 2:23 PM, (PSN)I_graviton_I said:

They can keep putting new frames in RJ all they want and I'm just gonna keep buying them with plat. I've farmed for frames that some would consider a PITA. Gauss, Nidus, Mesa, Equinox, Harrow, khora, bounty frames, all primes including all of the mats to build those frames like when I once spent 2 weeks getting Nitain for Vauban Prime before nightwave was a thing. Done it all.

I'm not opposed to a grind, I just dislike the Railjack game mode and that's fine. Not everyone has to like the same stuff. I play WF for the, well, Warframes. I like the bread and butter "boots on the ground" gameplay of frames with weapons and abilities. Some game modes I prefer over others but I like the variety because it gives different frames a chance to shine. If I wanted to play a game with space combat I wouldn't play WF that's for sure. I think the biggest reason why Archwing/Sharkwing and Railjack have largely been failures is because most people like Warframe for what it is and that being the boots on the ground gameplay with different mission types.

They are definitely trying to improve RJ and who knows, maybe I'll actually enjoy it one day but I'm not counting on it to be honest. I still never touch Archwing.

And as far as frames go, I hope Sevagoth is the last one we see as an exclusive RJ frame. They only ever did Atlas for Archwing and they said they've got a new method for acquiring Yareli so who knows. Maybe I'll save some plat. 

Did you miss the point of the thread?

[-Vahagn-]

It is also weird considering by the time you get to Railjack you probably would not have any use for a non-primed Oberon or Ash. Unless you want their helminth abilities.

[(PSN)Ravenger-MRIB]

It's the same thing they've done in the past with other under performing and disliked game modes.  You have Harrow tied to Defection, Trinity tied to the Ambulas boss, Nidus in Infested Salvage, Gauss in Disruption, Grendel with arbitrations, Xaku requiring resources from All the open world factions.  As it stands Disruption has at least been fixed to a be a bit more fun than when it launched and some people seem to genuinely like running it, but I can almost guarantee those other game modes go completely untouched once people have gotten the prospective drops from them.  No one runs defection for the fun of it. 

Putting in the work to really fix an entire game mode takes time and when you have players screeching for "More Content" and no doubt Tencent breathing down your neck, it's easier to just force players into playing a certain mode, thereby also increasing the chances they'll just buy the thing outright, than put in the time required to make it actually fun and engaging and push forward hoping you can strike gold with the next release.  We're lucky that they haven't decided to try and dump a new frame into Conclave at this point. 

[Dunkelheit]

Honestly, I like Railjack, it is fun, fast paced, interesting and immversive. But since I got all the rewards, it is no longer interesting to me and doing the Void Storms for relic cracking was not efficient enough.

I don't understand why DE is not taking the easy way out. Put up a dealer, invent a currency and let people grind for the currency to buy interesting things at the dealer. For example (and I will get many downvotes for that), why not put the Railjack Tempestarii skin behind a grind? Or why not create a couple of cosmetics or re-use old cosmetics and let us grind for them? Or put up "leaderboards" and let people climb by killing other ships in Railjack? At least something to move us there after you have finished the 4 items which brought us there.

Or put up simple stuff like a glowing Halo for a warframe to distinguish the veteran grinders from new players? Something that does not really means power, but pride?

Of course I did not think this through perfectly, but I am not paid for this and I wrote this posting in 2 minutes. But maybe we can find ideas for it if we all work together.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

On 2021-05-18 at 1:33 AM, Dunkelheit said:

Honestly, I like Railjack, it is fun, fast paced, interesting and immversive. But since I got all the rewards, it is no longer interesting to me and doing the Void Storms for relic cracking was not efficient enough.

I don't understand why DE is not taking the easy way out. Put up a dealer, invent a currency and let people grind for the currency to buy interesting things at the dealer. For example (and I will get many downvotes for that), why not put the Railjack Tempestarii skin behind a grind? Or why not create a couple of cosmetics or re-use old cosmetics and let us grind for them? Or put up "leaderboards" and let people climb by killing other ships in Railjack? At least something to move us there after you have finished the 4 items which brought us there.

Or put up simple stuff like a glowing Halo for a warframe to distinguish the veteran grinders from new players? Something that does not really means power, but pride?

Of course I did not think this through perfectly, but I am not paid for this and I wrote this posting in 2 minutes. But maybe we can find ideas for it if we all work together.

that was phasic cells and something else from scarlet spear. Why not implementing it in the game proper is a mystery.

[Redfeather75]

I think the ephemera blueprints should no longer use their parts anymore either.

The seeding step and smoke ephemeras are not so special as to require such an insane farm compared to ephemeras that use parts from frost, ember, saryn, garuda, and volt.

[Hyprexs]

Honestly, ash should have dropped from Ty Regor, not equinox. 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 23.5.2021 um 02:12 schrieb Redfeather75:

I think the ephemera blueprints should no longer use their parts anymore either.

The seeding step and smoke ephemeras are not so special as to require such an insane farm compared to ephemeras that use parts from frost, ember, saryn, garuda, and volt.

I would even remove it completely. drop chance is already miserable.

[Redfeather75]

I got a vengeful flame ephemera now. It was easier to get than farming ash systems for the smoke ephemera. And apparently it looks so much better I am told I made the right call. Now I'm playing elder scrolls online for a while so you won't see me posting on the forums. 👻

[Tesseract7777]

3 hours ago, Hyprexs said:

Honestly, ash should have dropped from Ty Regor, not equinox. 

They don't want it to be that easy.

Ever since they moved Ash to manics, I got the idea they thought Ash was "too cheese/op" for newer players, and so they hid him behind walls and layers of rng. 

I think they are going to keep making him hard to find. 

I'm just amazed they still haven't patched out the bug where he continues to drop from manics. 

[(NSW)Dangruff]

I want to ask the community again. Is it fun grinding railjack defense?