How many years has it been since bugged reactant spawns was first made public knowledge?

[JohnMorte]

double post, please ignore

[JohnMorte]

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

As I said in a previous reply, the vast majority of people who fall into this category are late joiners either due to system or join time. The reactant is still there to be picked up, but it is backwards instead of forwards. This is something as (again) I have said in previous replies people can learn in one or two fissures - let alone it being a constant concern.

Constant concern? No. It's still a bug. It still can affect gameplay as a whole. It's been encountered multiple times by myself, and I have other friends who have had it occur to them as well, I don't simply speak from my thousands of hours played.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

The frequency of there quite literally not being enough enemy spawns to have reactant drops map-wide is so low and excepting to the standard rule that it's a joke you and others are highlighting it to this degree as a "bug" when it is almost always due to lack of game knowledge or slow join speed, let alone the other plethora of potential causes.

Joke? It's not a joke. I'm not laughing, I'm not trying to provide some sort of twisted social satire.

This is a known bug that people have been aware of since just after the inception of the mode itself, years ago.

"Almost always due to lack of game knowledge" We'll address this point a little later.

"Slow join speed" I'm sorry, is this not a good enough reason to patch the issue? You're becoming increasingly defensive about fixing a known issue. Bewilderingly so.

"Let alone the other plethora of potential causes" Oh? There's even more potential causes? Do tell. All more reasons to patch the issue and be done with it instead of defending an esoteric bug that has somehow netted pages of discussion on a forum.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

I've also spent 5 of the last 6 years of my time in Warframe as a staff member on the community discord - I encounter this far more often than I would care to state and your ignorance of the situation does not remove it from relevance.

Wonderful. I'm happy for you that you encountered plenty of people who were struggling with the same issue. Did you blame the players there, too?

I'll be frank with you, if my own personal experience over countless missions ran in Warframe are irrelevant to the topic at hand, then I don't give a damn about your own experience in handling the issue. But I will say this: If the amount of times you have encountered people having issues is that numerous, why is it such a long-standing issue?

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

And in response I deem your concern to be overstated. It's a concern in very specific situations, sure - others are because of outside factors that are unrelated to the unavailability of either enemies to be corrupted or the failure for reactant to drop.

Saying this while also saying that you encountered people dealing with the issue more often than you can count is quite the potent self-contradiction.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

DE has implemented multiple changes over the years that aim to improve the overall encounter rate of reactant vs enemy spawns if the latter is low for whatever reason - so you deem it irrelevant at your own peril.

I say "irrelevant" because the bug is still a bug. Developers typically want to fix those no matter the situation, especially when it is unintended behavior that they clearly wish to repair.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

I've said it before and I'll happily say it again - I weathered the change from the tower system and while in the early days it was touch-and-go, now it is far more refined and almost entirely to the fault of the aforementioned.

Countless people running into the bug more often than once is what makes the "fringe case" argument irrelevant: It is a direct game bug, one which, as you established before, DE clearly doesn't want in the game, and have, in the past, attempted to rectify with changes to how reactant spawns. Which is great, but it's far too roundabout of a patch and has not fundamentally solved the issue.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

Your inability to accept the fact that players either willfully ignore the spawning mechanics of corrupted enemies or otherwise just nuke them or run past hoping for more spawns later is a very clear indicator that you are viewing this with a very narrow lens.

This is the crux of the issue and why this issue often goes unsolved or goes nowhere: the constant blame attributed to the playerbase. A consistent refusal to acknowledge that there are issues with the mission type in general. Even after admitting that it happens often, that it does certainly happen enough for you to get complaints about it countlessly, or even admitting that DE has been attempting to fix issues in the mode since the very inception of it, you still want to blame the players. The players aren't "willfully ignoring spawn mechanics" in these cases (even though they should be; DE has taken multiple steps in the past to actively prevent players from gaming the spawn system, they clearly don't want spawn manipulation to be a mechanic that players can either game or be forced to game), I'm looking at this whole issue from the entire lens.

This doesn't just occur in a very specific set of circumstances: Reactant issues can arise from nearly every possible mission type. I personally have had issues in these modes while playing in a normal manner: Capture, Exterminate, Interception, Survival. That's a fairly large part of the total missiontypes available. And other players who are in those missions with me also encountered the same problem.

1 hour ago, iPathos said:

Don't call it "bad faith argumentation" when you can't even back up the claim with anything that isn't your own experience.

So now the onus is on me to provide evidence?

This isn't enough to assuage you? You want listed stats of the games I've played? What about testimonials from other players? Oh wait, is their feedback even valid, because it would be from their own experience? You want video evidence? How about a full scale investigation? Shall I hire a PI?

This is absurd. If my own experience of the game is invalid, what makes any subsequent evidence from anyone else valid either?

This is why I'm calling your argumentation "bad faith." Instead of taking the evidence that you yourself presented to me as part of your argument as a reason to patch this whole issue out and make everyone happy, you'd rather defend a mode that DE themselves acknowledge, although indirectly, as having issues. And you defend the practice while also claiming that the players are either lazy or irresponsible. What on God's green earth is this, if not bad faith argumentation? Your little "Almost always due to lack of game knowledge" quip exposes your bias and elitism towards the playerbase at large.

Your own post details the fact that DE themselves think there's an issue. Most of the playerbase wants it fixed for the sake of consistency and their own time to not be wasted, and DE wants to fix it too. Just you and a very vocal minority don't. Are you sure you're representing the playerbase at large as an ex-discord moderator and supposed community member? Or maybe you just want to stick it to one of those pesky Volt players that ran through the mission?

52 minutes ago, Dauggie said:

guess reduce in oxygen by cutting trees (caused by humans) is just normal since that's we can freely do.. the nature is to blame because it lets us do that, right? if it lets us do that, than humans can't be blamed to cut trees and #*!% rest of the population.

this is exactly how your stupid "players can't be blamed" BS sounds like..

Whatever point you may be attempting to make isn't even coherent. Are you trying to make a grand, sweeping judgement of humans in general?

You apparently have come into this topic to try and stick it to the dumb dummy OP who is also stupid and ugly.

[Lutesque]

6 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

What instead happens is that everyone has a mistaken narrative where it's only those who push the game to it's limit that are experiencing this issue. I come here to establish that this is patently false.

That has been my experience too....

6 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

I won't speculate as to why players seem keen on defending the bug (false sense of superiority, mistaken belief that this is just mechanical depth, or even malicious players who just want to see people complain on the forums)

Il just assume it's all three... 😝

6 hours ago, iPathos said:

As I said to Lutesque earlier - get off your high horse

Never.... !!! I like the view from up here 😈 !!!

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

And yet the people bringing this up have been here longer than you with the same issue.

Just like the Broken Spawns in Excavator Missions.... Yeah I'm well aware there's a bunch of things DE hasn't fixed since before I signed up...

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

It becomes blatantly obvious within a few kills - if not a few missions - that not killing non-corrupted enemies and waiting for a fissure to work on em is the way to go.

Like I said.... It maybe that way for you....

For everyone else I know there's entirely way too much going on to make any sense of it.

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

If anything, your case is an exception to the rule because it is that simple. I'm not saying DE is the most apt at explaining things, but this doesn't need explanation.

That's where you're wrong, Tenno. At this point DE should be explaining anything and everything if only to Squash the belief that they suck at Explaining anything.

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

I'm doing exactly that right now - sure I'm annoyed, but I'm explaining every relevant point as I approach it so that you should be able to understand.

Nope... What you're doing right now is just Assuming everybody is just as Observant as you and blaming them for not noticing the Connection....

Look... People don't generally Google or discuss any one aspect on social media before or After playing a game mode.... I don't know how you got the impression that they do but this obviously isn't the case.... Hell half the players I encounter can't even be bothered to Say Hi in Squad Chat... 

You're obviously not extending Your Fellow Tenno the same Courtesy you give DE.... And you know... Space Mom would be Dissapointed 😞

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

I have given the same reason multiple times - player inability to understand core mechanics from something so simple as "glowy enemy drop thing, no glowy enemy don't" is not on DE. It's literally black/white or yin/yang - it's as simple as it gets in this game.

So is Moving Right or Jumping in Super Mario Brothers but Nintendo still made a "Tutorial" for it just to make sure everybody was on the same page. Never leave people to just assume things.... They might assume that they didn't get enough Reactant because their Team Mates' took their Share....

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

Refer to "asking people who know" in at least two of my previous posts. This extends to the fact the wiki is a thing and is hardly little-known like your previous gripe.

You're blaming people for not using the Wiki 😐 ? You do realise the fact that you have to use the Wiki or ask someone on Discord/Region Chat/Forums is exactly the problem and has been since the BETA....? 

Sorry... I'm not budging on this one... I'm not going to hold Players responsible for not playing Detective.

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

In the grand scheme of things, this is child's play - barely even worth mentioning compared to things like damage formulae, elemental weakness interactions, strength scaling per-ability and such. Don't act like I'm pointing things out that aren't well-known here, because they are.

It's well known that players aren't getting enough Reactant.... But its Definitely not well known why.... But I'm pretty sure there's more to it than just players going to quickly.

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

Mate, I work in retail. Don't even get me started on the idiocy or incompetence of people because I encounter it daily. That doesn't change my point of view on the matter.

You know.... Idiots aren't as bad as you make them out to be... Idiots are pretty good people once you get to know them. Try being nice to some of these Idiots....it might pay off...

 

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

Did I say that it wasn't a problem with the game's design? That's entirely separate to the reactant issue though as it applies to almost all game modes.

Then Why are you blaming the Players ? 😭

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

How does the idea of "more players here so spawn more enemies here" in any way seem like a wrong decision?

I know for a Fact that the game doesn't spawn enemies to where the largest cluster of players are 🤨 ...  It literally only takes one player to Run off on their Own and drag all the spawns with them....

I know this because in some missions "that player" is usually me... 😈 !!!

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

Jesus man think for a second.

NEVER !!! 😈

In all seriousness though I think that's your Problem... You spend too much time thinking and not enough time Feeling.... You should try Feeling for a second.... Lest your Fellow Tenno grow to resent you 😱 !!!

5 hours ago, iPathos said:

Speak for yourself. There are certainly exceptions to the rules and situations I've stated but they are as said - exceptions to the rule. They are not common, they are not the norm, they are caused by lack of knowledge, care or patience. Deal with it.

They seem Pretty common to me....

And honestly I'm not surprised because it.... Rather than giving Relics their own Dedicated missions for opening them they merely Repurposed existing missions and made the opening of those Relics a Secondary Objective... Which actually conflicts with the Primary Objective in some cases....

Ofcourse it's going to cause problems and that's before we get into the bugs that just make it worse...

4 hours ago, iPathos said:

As I said in a previous reply, the vast majority of people who fall into this category are late joiners either due to system or join time. The reactant is still there to be picked up, but it is backwards instead of forwards. This is something as (again) I have said in previous replies people can learn in one or two fissures - let alone it being a constant concern.

Wait.... Hang on.... Why should players have to learn this ?

They literally have no control over who the game is going to join them with or How Late that will happen... 😐 If you don't want me to accuse you of being Biased then for goodness sake don't make it so easy to do so 😭 !!

4 hours ago, iPathos said:

And in response I deem your concern to be overstated. It's a concern in very specific situations, sure - others are because of outside factors that are unrelated to the unavailability of either enemies to be corrupted or the failure for reactant to drop. DE has implemented multiple changes over the years that aim to improve the overall encounter rate of reactant vs enemy spawns if the latter is low for whatever reason - so you deem it irrelevant at your own peril. I've said it before and I'll happily say it again - I weathered the change from the tower system and while in the early days it was touch-and-go, now it is far more refined and almost entirely to the fault of the aforementioned. Your inability to accept the fact that players either willfully ignore the spawning mechanics of corrupted enemies or otherwise just nuke them or run past hoping for more spawns later is a very clear indicator that you are viewing this with a very narrow lens. Don't call it "bad faith argumentation" when you can't even back up the claim with anything that isn't your own experience.

I mean... When I read this I imagine you with a Pipe in your Mouth and it comes across like: "Back in my Day you would be lucky to get Screwed over.... Hell... I'm gonna find me bug and get Screwed over right now."  🤣 !!!

Sorry... It's just that you've clearly been doing this for so long that you're out of touch with normal player Behavior.

2 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

Wonderful. I'm happy for you that you encountered plenty of people who were struggling with the same issue. Did you blame the players there, too?

He/She Probably did... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

That seem to be his/her M.O. 

 

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Wow, there's a lot of people in this thread who are confusing the existence of a workaround with "working as intended".

[DarkSkysz]

On 2021-10-01 at 11:42 PM, JohnMorte said:

Breaking the game is different from pushing the game to design limits, or even just playing normally.

You just prove my point. In this game mode you are supposed to wait for enemies to get corrupted and then kill them. If you are just killing normal enemies, you are the one to blame, not the game.

Pushing to the limits and respecting timers are two different things. If the missions was projected to work in 5 seconds, you can't say its garbage because you tried to do it in 1 second and failed.

Still if you want a game to be 100% for your liking, hire some programmers. While there are people who love to rush everything, there is also people who enjoy the game in a more slow pace.

Anyway, the game is working fine. Wait for enemies to get corrupted, kill them, loot the reactant, move on. They will always drop at least one reactant per fissure, with chances for more.

If you are a hardcore zerger that can't wait 2 seconds for more enemies to spawn before rushing to the end, then you are the problem.

 

  

17 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Sorry... I'm not budging on this one... I'm not going to hold Players responsible for not playing Detective.

Wow... since way the common sense of doing research instead of being lazy became a normal thing?

Nutella generation makes more and more sense everyday. Open google and search what you need (30 seconds) or blame the game, the developers, the whole world just because you are too lazy to search something...

Damn... I guess thats the reason RPG's are in decline in 2021. People are lazy even to use their brains.

[JohnMorte]

1 hour ago, DarkSkysz said:

You just prove my point. In this game mode you are supposed to wait for enemies to get corrupted and then kill them. If you are just killing normal enemies, you are the one to blame, not the game.

Pushing to the limits and respecting timers are two different things. If the missions was projected to work in 5 seconds, you can't say its garbage because you tried to do it in 1 second and failed.

Still if you want a game to be 100% for your liking, hire some programmers. While there are people who love to rush everything, there is also people who enjoy the game in a more slow pace.

Anyway, the game is working fine. Wait for enemies to get corrupted, kill them, loot the reactant, move on. They will always drop at least one reactant per fissure, with chances for more.

If you are a hardcore zerger that can't wait 2 seconds for more enemies to spawn before rushing to the end, then you are the problem.

Once again, another post completely missing the point(s) I have tried to clarify multiple times throughout this 4 page topic. Since you're not going to put the effort to read through the thread, I'm going to just quote something I posted previously.

On 2021-10-01 at 9:42 PM, JohnMorte said:

Players are playing within design parameters. They choose frames and weapons and play the mission. DE has been pretty consistent when it comes to releasing multiple frames and weapons, allowing millions of potential combinations of playstyles in game. The game was made to be played with millions of varied specific playstyles. When the game fails to function as intended, regardless of playstyle, it is a definitive design fault.

Now, if players were intentionally breaking the game (this means using a weapon and it functioning outside its intended method. Think using a hek and if you hit one enemy on the map, it hits all enemies on the map) then I can understand this argument. Breaking the game is different from pushing the game to design limits, or even just playing normally.

 

Let me step back a second and highlight this issue: Fissure missions are bugged when it comes to reactant spawns in specific scenarios. This bug affects both Those who play normally and those who push the game to it's limit. My whole issue is that this design flaw affects all groups, not just those who push the game to it's limit. There are plenty of proposed changes that would easily make both sides happy and everyone could finally shut up about the issue entirely.

What instead happens is that everyone has a mistaken narrative where it's only those who push the game to it's limit that are experiencing this issue. I come here to establish that this is patently false. Those who play normally encounter this problem more often than those who push the game to it's limit. But somehow, the belief has entered the minds of a decidedly vocal minority of players who are unwilling or unable to comprehend what happens during average gameplay. Fixes would make every party happy. Especially DE: I'm quite certain DE doesn't want players gaming the spawn system in general. I can only guess that they never wanted to encourage that mindset from the beginning.

And now, here we are. Unironically YEARS later from the introduction of this bug, and it still persists. I won't speculate as to why players seem keen on defending the bug (false sense of superiority, mistaken belief that this is just mechanical depth, or even malicious players who just want to see people complain on the forums) but I will say that the game could be better. It doesn't have to be such a hassle to establish simple bug fix suggestions, but we have players who believe the bug is just what constitutes normal gameplay and not obtuse and esoteric issues that give the illusion of depth and stratagem.

As for me, I don't really care about false illusions or how deep people are dug into a sunk cost fallacy. I see people who are so invested in knowing how this silly bug effects normal gameplay that if it were to be patched, they'd lose some of their sense of superiority and would come to the forums to rant about how mad they are that they got used to the bug and now all that time thinking about the bug is going to go to waste!

All of this can be summed up as: Stop blaming the players.

Here's a fun fact for you: I played a speedrunning frame during all of my fissure missions yesterday, and had zero issues with reactant. It's not those missions I'm complaining about in the grand scheme of things: It's the missions where I am actively playing a normal setup and the reactant fails to spawn. For me and my thousands of hours of experience, it has been those missions that fail to spawn reactant, and not the ones I am speedrunning.

Fissure missions failing to spawn reactant is not a skill check. Stop pretending it is.

[(NSW)Greybones]

30 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

Once again, another post completely missing the point(s) I have tried to clarify multiple times throughout this 4 page topic. Since you're not going to put the effort to read through the thread, I'm going to just quote something I posted previously.

Here's a fun fact for you: I played a speedrunning frame during all of my fissure missions yesterday, and had zero issues with reactant. It's not those missions I'm complaining about in the grand scheme of things: It's the missions where I am actively playing a normal setup and the reactant fails to spawn. For me and my thousands of hours of experience, it has been those missions that fail to spawn reactant, and not the ones I am speedrunning.

Fissure missions failing to spawn reactant is not a skill check. Stop pretending it is.

Out of mild curiosity, what does a normal setup look like?

[JohnMorte]

15 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Out of mild curiosity, what does a normal setup look like?

Any setup not directly made to nuke or speedrun. For example, a "normal" setup that simply couldn't nuke or speedrun a map would be something like Rhino equipped with a Hek, some single target secondary, and some generic melee. And let's be real, the number of people who would unironically play this kind of setup is astonishingly low.

I would like to take this time to make a side note: The beauty of the argument used by people who complain about "nuker" mindsets is that they get to endlessly enforce their inane argument because of how the general meta is in Warframe at the moment. Nuking frames and weapons are just incredibly popular at the moment. Getting that to change would require severe nerfs to an entire line of weapons and warframes, which I don't anticipate happening any time soon. So even if you take a non-nuke reliant frame, you'll still get people complaining that you're nuking because of the weapons you've taken instead.

It would be much easier to simply fix the whole issue entirely and be done with it. Nerfing everything else to slow down the pace of the game would probably be detrimental to the popularity of the game right now, and that hits DE's bottom line. Now, we can argue all day long about how to patch the issue in general, but the one consistent mantra I know the vast majority of companies bow to is the almighty dollar.

[(NSW)Greybones]

19 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

Any setup not directly made to nuke or speedrun. For example, a "normal" setup that simply couldn't nuke or speedrun a map would be something like Rhino equipped with a Hek, some single target secondary, and some generic melee. And let's be real, the number of people who would unironically play this kind of setup is astonishingly low.

I would like to take this time to make a side note: The beauty of the argument used by people who complain about "nuker" mindsets is that they get to endlessly enforce their inane argument because of how the general meta is in Warframe at the moment. Nuking frames and weapons are just incredibly popular at the moment. Getting that to change would require severe nerfs to an entire line of weapons and warframes, which I don't anticipate happening any time soon. So even if you take a non-nuke reliant frame, you'll still get people complaining that you're nuking because of the weapons you've taken instead.

It would be much easier to simply fix the whole issue entirely and be done with it. Nerfing everything else to slow down the pace of the game would probably be detrimental to the popularity of the game right now, and that hits DE's bottom line. Now, we can argue all day long about how to patch the issue in general, but the one consistent mantra I know the vast majority of companies bow to is the almighty dollar.

Hm. Based on other conversations I’ve had elsewhere on the forums, I can’t help but feel that the distinction between a “Nuke build” and a “Non-nuke build” is pretty academic for some players. It sounds like your normal build is encountering this bug, but it’s not because it’s killing so fast that enemies are dying before they have a chance to corrupt?

edit: Still looking through the topic. There’s a lot to read

[JohnMorte]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hm. Based on other conversations I’ve had elsewhere on the forums, I can’t help but feel that the distinction between a “Nuke build” and a “Non-nuke build” is pretty academic for some players. It sounds like your normal build is encountering this bug, but it’s not because it’s killing so fast that enemies are dying before they have a chance to corrupt?

It encounters the issue due to the fact that some missions simply do not spawn enough enemies for reactant, or that enemies so rarely corrupt in some missions that collecting enough reactant is functionally impossible without failing some mission parameter or engaging in highly unintuitive gameplay (standing around and letting an enemy shoot me for an extended period of time is a poor gameplay pattern no matter how you want to slice it).

I believe all criteria are fulfilled for an issue to get patched. DE certainly has patched less significant issues out in the past, like some cosmetic not clipping right or something. Can we get fissure missions adjusted for 2021 gameplay first?

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

It encounters the issue due to the fact that some missions simply do not spawn enough enemies for reactant, or that enemies so rarely corrupt in some missions that collecting enough reactant is functionally impossible without failing some mission parameter or engaging in highly unintuitive gameplay (standing around and letting an enemy shoot me for an extended period of time is a poor gameplay pattern no matter how you want to slice it).

I believe all criteria are fulfilled for an issue to get patched. DE certainly has patched less significant issues out in the past, like some cosmetic not clipping right or something. Can we get fissure missions adjusted for 2021 gameplay first?

Hrm. The capture-turn-exterminate lacking in spawns after a few reactant drops sounds like it might be a bug/oversight, but I’m not sure what sort of killing was happening before the target was captured

How easy would you say Warframe normally is for you? Without a baseline experience at “Standard difficulty”, it might be hard to determine whether overpowering the mission is causing problems. Many new players will go through the game without the option to obliterate everything; I wonder what their experience is like.

[JohnMorte]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hrm. The capture-turn-exterminate lacking in spawns after a few reactant drops sounds like it might be a bug/oversight, but I’m not sure what sort of killing was happening before the target was captured

How easy would you say Warframe normally is for you? Without a baseline experience at “Standard difficulty”, it might be hard to determine whether overpowering the mission is causing problems. Many new players will go through the game without the option to obliterate everything; I wonder what their experience is like.

Warframe is not a hard game. Plenty of options have been given for player survivability and damage. The game is not difficult to grasp once you have a fundamental knowledge of the mechanics. It is neither deep nor mechanically intensive. It certainly has many options in situations, but almost every one of these options is just some variation of "Use gun on man."

I, personally, am probably not the average player Warframe regularly deals with. I play organized PvP tournaments in an old FPS shooter (Doom/Doom2) regularly with the best players in the world and that is a much faster game with far more things I end up needing to think about. I have experience in several other games in a more casual manner (for me, anyway), such as Team Fortress 2, Quake 3, League of Legends (peak mid-diamond), Overwatch (high diamond), and others that I don't recall immediately. I am quite used to esoteric and strange interactions within games themselves. Warframe is a nice, slow paced shooter that I enjoy playing to unwind from more stressful activities.

Warframe, on average, attracts a lower average skill level than more competitive games, which is fine! If the issue I've been complaining about for 4 and a half pages in this forum thread got fixed, it would benefit more players than just myself, it would also make players who have limited time and don't wish to have their time wasted much more confident in starting and playing fissure missions. One of my clanmates simply doesn't want to play any endless fissure missions until the issue gets fixed.

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 minutes ago, JohnMorte said:

Warframe is not a hard game. Plenty of options have been given for player survivability and damage. The game is not difficult to grasp once you have a fundamental knowledge of the mechanics. It is neither deep nor mechanically intensive. It certainly has many options in situations, but almost every one of these options is just some variation of "Use gun on man."

I, personally, am probably not the average player Warframe regularly deals with. I play organized PvP tournaments in an old FPS shooter (Doom/Doom2) regularly with the best players in the world and that is a much faster game with far more things I end up needing to think about. I have experience in several other games in a more casual manner (for me, anyway), such as Team Fortress 2, Quake 3, League of Legends (peak mid-diamond), Overwatch (high diamond), and others that I don't recall immediately. I am quite used to esoteric and strange interactions within games themselves. Warframe is a nice, slow paced shooter that I enjoy playing to unwind from more stressful activities.

Warframe, on average, attracts a lower average skill level than more competitive games, which is fine! If the issue I've been complaining about for 4 and a half pages in this forum thread got fixed, it would benefit more players than just myself, it would also make players who have limited time and don't wish to have their time wasted much more confident in starting and playing fissure missions. One of my clanmates simply doesn't want to play any endless fissure missions until the issue gets fixed.

I think people seriously need to start distinguishing the difference between “Warframe is not a hard game” and “I choose to make Warframe a not-hard game”

[JohnMorte]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think people seriously need to start distinguishing the difference between “Warframe is not a hard game” and “I choose to make Warframe a not-hard game”

Perhaps. But even if I were to take weapons that were not meta or not efficient, the game is still not difficult. At the base level, all of the content is completable with basic weaponry that has time and effort put into it. The "difficulty" in Warframe comes not from the mechanics but rather wading through the tedium to reach a higher capability and power. Functionally, at the most basic level, Warframe is a stat check. Most players, should they run into something that out-statchecks them, they'll just lose no matter what the situation may be.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, JohnMorte said:

Perhaps. But even if I were to take weapons that were not meta or not efficient, the game is still not difficult. At the base level, all of the content is completable with basic weaponry that has time and effort put into it. The "difficulty" in Warframe comes not from the mechanics but rather wading through the tedium to reach a higher capability and power. Functionally, at the most basic level, Warframe is a stat check. Most players, should they run into something that out-statchecks them, they'll just lose no matter what the situation may be.

Yeah Warframe’s a stat-check in tiers (hello level guides). What ends up happening is players get a little overzealous with their stat buffing the moment things get difficult. Instead of “Do I need that health or damage increase, or do I need to do something else?”, it’s “Struggled in a mission. Time to figure out how to make it super easy, because I’ll be doing this a few times and it’d be stupid to waste time doing anything else other than making it easy”.

Suddenly all the combat mechanics fall to the wayside, but that’s allright; the player was clever with overcorrecting, because there’s no way that fight would be fun if played through again without the boost.

It should be easy to distinguish the two, Warframe being easy and Warframe being made easy

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

On 2021-10-01 at 11:02 AM, JohnMorte said:

 

 

Stop. Poor game design is not the fault of the players. Stop blaming the players.

I agree. What these replies have in common is blaming the players for going too fast. I'm not sure about you guys, but most other games ENCOURAGE you to play at your best, while Warframe is constantly incentivising you to hold back, or you won't get the rewards L. What's worse is for someone like myself that's played 60,000+ missions, I'm at a point where I'm naturally fast without pushing for it, and feel like I have to force myself to constantly slow down to an average or slower pace, no longer being able to play at my own natural capabilities. Sometimes it can feel suffocating and I end up having to play a different game. 

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Wow... since way the common sense of doing research instead of being lazy became a normal thing?

Have you been living under a rock ? 🤔 It's been like that since forever.... See, Tenno.... This is what happens when you play a game for too long... You lose track of what it's like to be a normal Human Bean who doesn't "Research the Best way to have Fun"...

4 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Nutella generation makes more and more sense everyday. Open google and search what you need (30 seconds) or blame the game, the developers, the whole world just because you are too lazy to search something...

Il do the Latter... Thanks 😁

4 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Damn... I guess thats the reason RPG's are in decline in 2021. People are lazy even to use their brains.

They Are 😮 ?!

That's GREAT NEWS !!! That genre has always Irritates me to no end 😤 !!!

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Out of mild curiosity, what does a normal setup look like?

In my case they Vary quite Abit but I always encounter a Mesa.... She was Top 3 In the most used Warframe's last year.

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

It sounds like your normal build is encountering this bug, but it’s not because it’s killing so fast that enemies are dying before they have a chance to corrupt?

I wouldn't say it's a bug either... But Its Definitely a design Flaw....

Extra Credits Classified Flaws into 2 Categories:

1. Technical Breaks (these would be things like actual Bugs and Crashes)

2. System Breaks (these would things that are merely overlooked)....

Which is funny because my limited Knowledge of Programming tells me that Even Bugs are just the code behaving normally due to an Oversight. It might not necessarily be Intensional... But it still makes sense after it's been discovered.

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)l Saminator l said:

I agree. What these replies have in common is blaming the players for going too fast. I'm not sure about you guys, but most other games ENCOURAGE you to play at your best, while Warframe is constantly incentivising you to hold back, or you won't get the rewards L.

It's discovering this fact that lead me to believe that it's basically impossible to Sustain any game indefinitely using content... It's just way too much work... Not even Blizzard or Ubisoft can keep up at the rate players can Chew through Updates.

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)l Saminator l said:

What's worse is for someone like myself that's played 60,000+ missions, I'm at a point where I'm naturally fast without pushing for it, and feel like I have to force myself to constantly slow down to an average or slower pace, no longer being able to play at my own natural capabilities. Sometimes it can feel suffocating and I end up having to play a different game. 

That's interesting... Because for me it's The Exact opposite... Sometime last year I just Decided to Slow down....

My guess is because I had finally caught up to the grind and had almost every Warframe, Mod and Arcane.... I no longer needed to Rush... I could Take my Time and do things my way... Which is how I discovered my Mains... Booben and Ivara.

That's why I love content Droughts... Its the only time I get to do what I want at my own pace... ☺️

[DarkSkysz]

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Human Bean

Talk by yourself... I was never a 'bean'.

 

And thanks for proving my point. Getting 'irritated' in a game that only ask you to use your head, even if it is for just a little...guess you know what that means =P

Big gap between being smart and just pretending to be smart.

  

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Have you been living under a rock ? 🤔 It's been like that since forever

No it was not... research was and still is (at least for people who are not stupid...) a common thing to figure out stuff.

  

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Il do the Latter... Thanks 😁

I know...easy to tell what kind of person you are. The one that loves mobile games that play by itself while all you have to do is watch it...

Ya great 'gamer' indeed.

[DarkSkysz]

5 hours ago, JohnMorte said:

Fissure missions failing to spawn reactant is not a skill check. Stop pretending it is.

Player being dumb and trying to blame the game when its clearly their fault is not normal. Stop pretending it is.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Talk by yourself... I was never a 'bean'.

Become One With The Bean 😈 !!!

2 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

And thanks for proving my point. Getting 'irritated' in a game that only ask you to use your head, even if it is for just a little...guess you know what that means =P

Players alre always down for using their Heads.... The problem with Warframe is that the game lacks sufficient information to actually allow players to actually use their Heads.

2 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Big gap between being smart and just pretending to be smart.

So googling stuff is being smart now ey ? Alright Tenno 🤣 !

2 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

No it was not... research was and still is (at least for people who are not stupid...) a common thing to Figure out stuff. I  know...easy to tell what kind of person you are. The one that loves mobile games that play by itself while all you have to do is watch it...

 

Ya great 'gamer' indeed

Ah now I see.. you  have some sort of Superiority Complex... Tell me, Tenno... Why is it so important to prove to Everyone how hardcore you are ? 🤔

 

[JohnMorte]

15 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

Player being dumb and trying to blame the game when its clearly their fault is not normal. Stop pretending it is.

You have not read anything in this topic, at all.

Please stop posting in here if you continue to refuse to perform the basic reading necessary.

This level of player blame is obnoxious and rude. You do nobody any favors by continuing to behave in this manner.

[DarkSkysz]

8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

have some sort of Superiority Complex.

Funny. Someone like you, that waste time quoting everyone (I mean don't you have something better to do? Are your life really that lonely that you beg for attention like that? Poor you...) saying that someone else have 'superiority complex'. Lol.

Btw, like I said, I kow what kind of person you are, just begging for attention because you have no friends in real life to talk to :(

Quote someone else if you want more attention, I will stop feeding your lonely ego right now.

 

1 hour ago, JohnMorte said:

Please stop posting in here if you continue to refuse to perform the basic reading necessary.

First, you are not special to demand who can or cannot post in here.

Second, I did read, but it was so stupid... I really did not care much at all.

And for last, maybe you should get off your pedestal prime and learn that the game was not made FOR YOU.

Accepting or not, the truth is simple. Game is working fine and you are just finding excuses to blame the developers (who clearly have better stuff do to than fix something that is not broken...). 

[LillyRaccune]

13 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

Funny. Someone like you, that waste time quoting everyone (I mean don't you have something better to do? Are your life really that lonely that you beg for attention like that? Poor you...) saying that someone else have 'superiority complex'. Lol.

Btw, like I said, I kow what kind of person you are, just begging for attention because you have no friends in real life to talk to :(

Quote someone else if you want more attention, I will stop feeding your lonely ego right now.

 

First, you are not special to demand who can or cannot post in here.

Second, I did read, but it was so stupid... I really did not care much at all.

And for last, maybe you should get off your pedestal prime and learn that the game was not made FOR YOU.

Accepting or not, the truth is simple. Game is working fine and you are just finding excuses to blame the developers (who clearly have better stuff do to than fix something that is not broken...). 

I can see you're going to make lots of friends here. Maybe don't take other players so seriously. When I meet players with attitudes I don't like, I use the features of the forum. Peace out, tenno.

[JohnMorte]

24 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

First, you are not special to demand who can or cannot post in here.

Second, I did read, but it was so stupid... I really did not care much at all.

And for last, maybe you should get off your pedestal prime and learn that the game was not made FOR YOU.

Accepting or not, the truth is simple. Game is working fine and you are just finding excuses to blame the developers (who clearly have better stuff do to than fix something that is not broken...). 

Stellar superiority complex. Stop blaming the players.

I have repeatedly said that the reactant issue affects those playing normally more than those who are pushing the game to the limit. You cleverly subvert this argument by directly ignoring it.

Kindly go away.

[Sovyul]

it will never cease to amaze me when people argue against their own interests

surely, DE, a small multi dollar company would crumble under the pressure of fixing their game and pause with the release of reskinned frames and weapons for a while