Invigoration cycles

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I guess the main idea behind Invigorations was to inspire players to try different warframes but when you have everything, know every frame's pros and cons - all you do is inject all 3 trash frames every Monday, feed Helminth and just wait for the 3rd week to pick something good for your main - that's the routine for the most players (at least those who know what they are doing) + sometimes you get something meaningful for your 2nd-3rd favorite on the way. That's it.

My proposal is to shorten the cycle to 1 week, so that we can invigorate 3 randoms and pick something good for the main:

P.S:"or all 9+1 every week, will require some management to let Helminth's apetite restore (not all 10 on Monday)"
P.P.S:"or even let those invigorations stay permanently, because why not?"
P.P.P.S:"Permanently + 1 for each config slot, because again - why not?"




 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I think the system is fine as is.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

I'll share some of my thoughts about this system.  I used to be a min-max guy for quite a while, now I use Helminth mostly to be able to remove some mandatory mods for something more fun, for example if I get:

+200 str - I can remove STR mods or use [Overextended]
+100 range - can remove range mods or add [Narrow Minded]
+100 duration -  can go without duration mods, add [Fleeting Expertise] + [Trancient Fortitude] and still have some duration
+ 75 efficiency - max efficiency without [Fleeting Expertise]10 + [Streamline]8
+ 200% energy - free mod slot when your build includes [Primed Flow]
+ Status Immunity - remove [Primed Sure Footed]

I usually switch it to some exilus mods (I wish I had 3 exilus slots) or some othe utility/augmentation mods that just don't fit into my builds due to capacity limitations.

+1000 armor - Rhino bliss and any other tanky frames
+1000 hp - good for any frame if you have a chance of dying and don't want to waste a mod slot (arbitration mostly)
+200% weapon crit chance - lets you go more red crits or free a mod slot instead
+250% weapon damage - additive bonus, lets you remove [Serration]-like mods, matters less when arcanes and CO-like mods kick in
+75% reload speed - super good in our AOE launchers meta, works with both primaries and secondaries, Tonkor Bliss.

Energy/HP regen - better than nothing, but I have Arcane Energize and HP is usually either full or 0 anyway.

Jump Resets 5 - nice meme, I use [aero vantage] + [aerodynamic] very often to glide 5+ seconds with no gravity, this adds more fun

Sprint Speed +75% - I don't care personally, I would never choose it by myself over any other options

Parkour Velocity +75% - I tried this thing, i tried acranes like this before - i hate it, it makes me over-jump out of bounds and loose my buffs or miss door frames, more harm than good - but feels kinda nice in the open worlds. Nice on Ivara to roll further while in Prowl.
 

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I think the system is fine as is.

Yep. its been nice to use some warframe ive not used since its release.

[BiancaRoughfin]

6 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

P.S:"or even let those invigorations stay permanently, because why not?"

Because Power creep is already a massive F-ing problem in the game and if it was ever implemented, DE would have to add the Disposition system to frames to so the power would scale with how powerful that frame initially already is and how often its used but, people would still come to the forums complain because their favorite frames which are probably some lazy press-key-to-win or afk possible frame would have a low dispo.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

6 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because Power creep is already a massive F-ing problem in the game and if it was ever implemented, DE would have to add the Disposition system to frames to so the power would scale with how powerful that frame initially already is and how often its used but, people would still come to the forums complain because their favorite frames which are probably some lazy press-key-to-win or afk possible frame would have a low dispo.

There is no balance anyway, besides -- diminishing returns

If you are a Nuker the difference between 100% str and 199% is double (one mod), between 199% and 298% you only get a 50% increase (2 more mod slots that could be used for something better), but when you already have invigorated 300% (0 mods) and go for 498% (3 mods) you only get +40% increase (you also get 2 penalties from corrupted mods and all 3 mods require 16 capacity), you are not gonna break the game you know, if you nuke 5000 dmg instead of 3000, in that case you better invest in something else like energy economy or more energy or some survivability or exilus mods of your taste or Natural Talent or Augments that are fun but not worth a slot otherwise or more range or some cats/dogs set mods
 

Max numbers are just memes, if someone puts everything in one stat and gives you some super Rhino buff with extra 200 str from invigoration you will oneshot enemies pretty much the same way as without invigoration.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

I think the invigoration system is fine. Lately I have used it only as a “give my one frame the buff I want every few weeks” simulator but even then Im happy with it. As a Gauss main, its nice getting 200% power strength every month and a half or so, because it means my molt speed build is just THAT much more enjoyable. 
 

i think the other issues I have can be boiled down to minor burnout. Sure I loved the mission or 3 I played with 200% melee damage Atlas, but as of late the only frame Ive been really loving to play is Gauss. That doesnt mean the system is bad, more so my tastes are very picky. 

[Lutesque]

The thing that really Irritates me with Invigorations is how the game will repeat Selections before it has cycled through all the Warframes....

What so mean by this is since I've been back I've had Harrow and Garuda show up twice but Booben and Maggy haven't even had their Turns yet....

My suggestion is to just take the concept behind Prime Resurgence and then put it in the Helminth System... The list of Ever Growing Warframe's is just going to make it harder to Aquire the Invigoration for the Warframe you want....

This sucks especially hard for the players that don't have every Warframe....

[Scar.brother.help.me]

13 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

I think the invigoration system is fine.

Better than nothing, yes. Have 1 of 3 buffs on your main frame for one week every 3rd week is better than no buff, no argue to that. I just wish to have it constantly in some way because it's cool and allows for more fun builds. For me it would be enough to get one of 4 main stats buff -- Power/Time/Economy/Range. Just to be able to remove 1-2 mods from my build without breaking it and try something else.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-11-27 at 1:12 PM, Lutesque said:

The thing that really Irritates me with Invigorations is how the game will repeat Selections before it has cycled through all the Warframes....

I've learnt about Warframes "weight" just yesterday myself. And I got Harrow twice already (and both times it was meaningless for him, like health/energy regen, a bit meme with 75% reload (on top of his reload buff) and secondary or primary damage i think (which is not so good since we got arcanes and even remove damage mods from builds pretty often).

Good thing about Invigorations is that we can choose one of 3 for our main, but on any other we get whatever. So even if one of 3 frames happens to be the one you like - chances are high that bonus won't help.

If you could swap 3 bonuses between 3 random frames, it would be slightly more interesting.

[Devil_Zeldris]

Add +1 stat for Invigorations. 
Exemple: I need Power Strength, Melee Damage and Status Immunity for my Excalibur Umbra + War
I think, it would be better

[FacuNeko]

En 26/11/2021 a las 10:50, BiancaRoughfin dijo:

Because Power creep is already a massive F-ing problem in the game and if it was ever implemented,

people play this game to feel like gods...

that is one of the good things i say to friends when i recomend the game

AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT THING

don't kill the game experience

[BiancaRoughfin]

5 minutes ago, FacuNeko said:

people play this game to feel like gods...

that is one of the good things i say to friends when i recomend the game

AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT THING

don't kill the game experience

Power Creep is not the reason people play the game, when a very small group of frames can out perform the majority by a large margin, the game has problems that needs fixing.

If all frames benefited from the same level of power and the challenges in the game were up to par, Power creep wouldnt be an Issue.

The same people that complain in the forums that the game is too easy are the same people that play the highly unbalanced and power hungry frames that require no effort or skill to play. Whos killing the game? Me wanting Balance or them who spend the entire mission spamming a single skill and wiping out the entire map then call leveling up stuff a chore when by level 30 they many times have zero kills with the new gear they obtained?

[FacuNeko]

hace 14 minutos, BiancaRoughfin dijo:

when a very small group of frames can out perform the majority by a large margin

if i take octavia as example of easy/broken, giving her an amount of extra strenght would not be i high difference, wwhile giving it to a not so meta frame could be a whole different story

i am not sure what the suggested change on the thread is, but if it could reduce the usuability gap between frames, then it might be a possible good change

[BiancaRoughfin]

21 minutes ago, FacuNeko said:

i am not sure what the suggested change on the thread is, but if it could reduce the usuability gap between frames, then it might be a possible good change

If you had payed attention to my first post, i was protesting Invigorations being permanent. I wouldnt mind the Helminth cycle being a bit faster, just dont want it permanent because then again, some players could just pick an already OP frame and throw in +200% of a status forever.

[FacuNeko]

hace 7 minutos, BiancaRoughfin dijo:

If you had payed attention to my first post,

not so much sorry for my hypocrisy on that one

hace 8 minutos, BiancaRoughfin dijo:

i was protesting Invigorations being permanent. I wouldnt mind the Helminth cycle being a bit faster, just dont want it permanent because then again, some players could just pick an already OP frame and throw in +200% of a status forever.

and agree on that

 

i just had this ↓ sentence in my mind and wanted to slap it somewhere, and didn't know wich comment to reply

hace 32 minutos, FacuNeko dijo:

if it could reduce the usuability gap between frames, then it might be a possible good change

 

[Steel_Rook]

Honestly, the Invigoration system was a bad idea in the first place. DE seem to have it in their heads that if only they give players enough incentive to play with garbage items, players will actually do it. Maybe that works for some, but it doesn't work for me. If you want me playing anything outside my standard roster of Warframes... maybe make the others worth playing? Balance in this game is so far down the crapper that I don't expect it to ever improve in a meaningful way, especially since it gets flushed further and further down with the power creep of every new update.

From the outside looking in, it seems like "invigoration" was used as a stopgap. DE wanted to put a few more levels on the Helminth but a lot of veterans had already subsumed all the preexisting Warframes. A new, renewable way was needed to level up the Helminth and it couldn't be just dumping resources into it. As such, I don't expect anything to ever happen to Invigorations. They're a permanent placeholder.

[_junguler]

i think i used it a total of three times since the update hit and even then it wasn't enough to make a bad warframe playable, with how long it takes to rotate and how lucky you have to be for your favorite warframe to be included with a decent stat i think this whole system might as well not be there, since it hardly ever gets used (by me at least).

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Just had a nice week of +100 duration on my Wisp. It was quite fun but if I could just keep it forever I would play some other warframes last week. So if the intention was to inspire me play other warframes - it worked the opposite way. Now it's going to be 2 weeks of waiting with random invigorations and feeding resourses. Then it's going to be Harrow Prime to get a buff. Thats how it is.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-12-04 at 3:17 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

when a very small group of frames can out perform the majority by a large margin, the game has problems that needs fixing

This is the main reason I love current AOE launchers meta. At least right now it doesn't matter which frame you pick - with some Brama/Ogris/Tonkor/Acceltra/Zarr/etc you will do the job ANYWAY. So you can enjoy any frame you like and be effective enough to kill those hordes of enemies. On top of that you can add something from Helminth to buff your launcher. 
Meta is kind of bad but I am in Warframe since April 2019 and this is the first time I actually enjoy the META.