Warframe Pride 2022

[Scruffel]

On 2022-06-07 at 12:55 PM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

 

 

Warframes are not human and so impossible to be LGBTQIA++ 🏳️‍🌈 

Hmm... so you never referred to a Warframe by gendered pronouns? I wonder... 

[Sean]

On 2022-06-09 at 10:45 AM, MagPrime said:

DE is currently boycotting Russia & Belarus due to the Ukraine war & you think this game is above politics?  Or any game?  

It's also pretty funny (well... sad really) how just being for human rights / equality is even considered politics.

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, Sean said:

It's also pretty funny (well... sad really) how just being for human rights / equality is even considered politics.

No kidding!  Not only politics but the response one gets just from saying things like "maybe we shouldn't default to eff'you when someone asks for help" 

[SpicyDinosaur]

On 2022-06-02 at 10:54 PM, Satsuki_Hyphen said:

The first "A" is for "Asexuel" and the second is for "ally". 😉

 

And Happy Pride Month ! 🌈✨

Asexual, Aromantic. Allies are not a marginalized group and shouldn't be demanding space of their own when they already have space. Being an ally means elevating the voices that are the most marginalized, not trying to claim part of the attention for themselves.

 

LGBTQ+ is probably the best you can get as far as short acronyms. The Q can cover a lot of ground. I know I identify as bisexual and queer. Which was so weird hearing for a long time. I was out in high school in the 90s, queer was not something I heard that you'd want people calling you. But yea, the acronym is so long because gender and sexuality are nebulous things that can be hard to pin down sometimes.

 

On 2022-06-09 at 3:40 PM, MagPrime said:

DE, please give me the laugh emoji back, please.  It's sorely needed. 

 

DE is currently boycotting Russia & Belarus due to the Ukraine war & you think this game is above politics?  Or any game?  

I don't understand why they decided to do that when there are a lot of Russians risking their lives protesting the war themselves. Unless Putin has an account or something, which I can't imagine being the case.

[Leo.doodling]

2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I don't understand why they decided to do that when there are a lot of Russians risking their lives protesting the war themselves. Unless Putin has an account or something, which I can't imagine being the case.

Moving money between Russian banks and the rest of the world is currently very difficult due to sanctions.

[SpicyDinosaur]

17 minutes ago, Leo.doodling said:

Moving money between Russian banks and the rest of the world is currently very difficult due to sanctions.

Ahh, that makes a little more sense.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

17 hours ago, Scruffel said:

Hmm... so you never referred to a Warframe by gendered pronouns? I wonder... 

Whatever “pronouns” DE wants to give the Warframe is whatever, but that doesn’t change the fact that Warframe’s don’t have genitalia. Warframe’s aren’t human. Warframe’s don’t have a sexual preferences. Warframe’s don’t have feelings or emotions. Warframe’s don’t even have a mouth. Warframe’s are weapons. To say otherwise is lore breaking and silly. Warframe’s are infested tissue and metal. So again impossible for Warframe’s to be considered apart of lgbtq+ 🏳️‍🌈 rights community. Yea I also find it cringe shipping any frames together too. All of Rule 34 is vary strange and cringe to me. I’m all for LGBTQ pride and rights and am proud of many in my family, but pretending Warframe’s have a sexual preference is bizarre-o.

Edited June 12, 2022 by (XBOX)YoungGunn82

[SpicyDinosaur]

50 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Whatever “pronouns” DE wants to give the Warframe is whatever, but that doesn’t change the fact that Warframe’s don’t have genitalia. Warframe’s aren’t human. Warframe’s don’t have a sexual preferences. Warframe’s don’t have feelings or emotions. Warframe’s don’t even have a mouth. Warframe’s are weapons. To say otherwise is lore breaking. Warframe’s are infested tissue and metal. So again impossible for Warframe’s to be considered apart of lgbtq+ 🏳️‍🌈 rights community. Yea I also find it cringe shipping any frames together too. All of Rule 34 is vary strange and cringe to me. I’m all for LGBTQ pride and rights and am proud of many in my family, but pretending Warframe’s have a sexual preference is bizarre-o.

you apparently know nothing about Warframe lore as the warframes -were- people. Also, why would you choose to die on this hill other than as a thinly veiled excuse to want to silence marginalized groups. Why does it matter? We have an event where Kela de Thaym is pitting us against her e3xecutioners in a super soaker battle on the beach because she had a gas leak nearby and got high off it.

[Anaktoria]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Whatever “pronouns” DE wants to give the Warframe is whatever, but that doesn’t change the fact that Warframe’s don’t have genitalia. Warframe’s aren’t human. Warframe’s don’t have a sexual preferences. Warframe’s don’t have feelings or emotions. Warframe’s don’t even have a mouth. Warframe’s are weapons. To say otherwise is lore breaking. Warframe’s are infested tissue and metal. So again impossible for Warframe’s to be considered apart of lgbtq+ 🏳️‍🌈 rights community. Yea I also find it cringe shipping any frames together too. All of Rule 34 is vary strange and cringe to me. I’m all for LGBTQ pride and rights and am proud of many in my family, but pretending Warframe’s have a sexual preference is bizarre-o.

To be perfectly technical, DE has never confirmed or denied exactly what anatomical details or levels of sentience frames have. (They don't externally demonstrate independent sentient thought, excepting a few very special cases, but that doesn't preclude them from being the equivalent of conscious coma patients with completely internal thought processes - a la "I have no mouth and I must scream.") Also, as others have pointed out, frames are heavily infected and changed humans, or the bodies of humans at least, so it's definitely not at all a stretch to suggest they might still have any given human anatomical body part (Umbra's Sunder helmet indicates that he still has a human eye buried under his "skin," for example).

That said, there's no need for you or anyone else to be upset about frame sexualities at this point anyway, because DE and affiliates have absolutely not made any statements about canonical frame sexualities. No, that new Orbiter display art piece of Banshee and Octavia does not count either. The artist specifically said it is just a cute piece of art that she felt like drawing, based on what she personally enjoys imagining.

Relax.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Anaktoria

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

20 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

you apparently know nothing about Warframe lore as the warframes -were- people. Also, why would you choose to die on this hill other than as a thinly veiled excuse to want to silence marginalized groups. Why does it matter? We have an event where Kela de Thaym is pitting us against her e3xecutioners in a super soaker battle on the beach because she had a gas leak nearby and got high off it.

 

15 minutes ago, Anaktoria said:

To be perfectly technical, DE has never confirmed or denied exactly what anatomical details or levels of sentience frames have. (They don't externally demonstrate independent sentient thought, excepting a few very special cases, but that doesn't preclude them from being the equivalent of conscious coma patients with completely internal thought processes - a la "I have no mouth and I must scream.") Also, as others have pointed out, frames are heavily infected and changed humans, or the bodies of humans at least, so it's definitely not at all a stretch to suggest they might still have any given human anatomical body part (Umbra's Sunder helmet indicates that he still has a human eye buried under his "skin," for example).

That said, there's no need for you or anyone else to be upset about frame sexualities at this point anyway, because DE and affiliates have absolutely not made any statements about canonical frame sexualities. No, that new Orbiter display art piece of Banshee and Octavia does not count either. The artist specifically said it is just a cute piece of art that she felt like drawing, based on what she personally enjoys imagining.

Relax.

not worth my time to engage you two about Warframe’s lore, and don’t need to defend myself. Have fun with your head cannon. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by (XBOX)YoungGunn82

[SpicyDinosaur]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

 

not worth my time to engage you two about Warframe’s lore, and don’t need to defend myself. Have fun with your head cannon. 

😊

[Anaktoria]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

not worth my time to engage you two about Warframe’s lore, and don’t need to defend myself. Have fun with your head cannon. 

Amusing! Thing is, though, you're the one with headcanons. I'm saying there is a lack of canon. You're asserting a statement (that frames definitely do not have sexualities) and I am saying you cannot assert that statement due to absence of any evidence one way or another. A headcanon on my part would be saying that they do have sexualities, which I certainly don't believe. We simply have been given no canonical evidence either way.

Belief vs. logical absence of belief, not belief vs. counter-belief. Very common misunderstanding, easy to make if you aren't familiar with the way logic works, so I don't blame you. Good luck anyway, though.

For the record, I have no problem with the fact that you have headcanons about this, nor do I have problems with anyone else's headcanons (not to mention, funny enough, I actually do headcanon that frames themselves have no attractions! I just also have the presence of mind to realize that that is a headcanon, until and unless DE officially expands canon on that). If I were you, the least I'd do is not be hypocritical and let everyone enjoy their headcanons, whether they align with yours or not. 😉

Edited June 12, 2022 by Anaktoria
Removed quoted image for readability.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Anaktoria said:

Amusing! Trouble is, friend, you're the one with headcanons. I'm saying there is a lack of canon. You're asserting a statement (that frames definitely do not have sexualities) and I am saying you cannot assert that statement due to absence of any evidence one way or another. A headcanon on my part would be saying that they do have sexualities, which I certainly don't believe. We simply have been given no canonical evidence either way.

Belief vs. logical absence of belief, not belief vs. counter-belief. Very common misunderstanding, easy to make if you aren't familiar with the way logic works, so I don't blame you. Good luck anyway, though.

For the record, I have no problem with the fact that you have headcanons about this, nor do I have problems with anyone else's headcanons (not to mention, funny enough, I actually do headcanon that frames themselves have no attractions! I just also have the presence of mind to realize that that is a headcanon, until and unless DE officially expands canon on that). If I were you, the least I'd do is not be hypocritical and let everyone enjoy their headcanons, whether they align with yours or not. 
 

Edited June 12, 2022 by (XBOX)YoungGunn82

[SpicyDinosaur]

23 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

I think you lost this one. People are coming up with cogent responses to your already flimsy arguments and you are falling back on memes. If you aren't going to address anything in said responses, then why bother posting at all other than to try and save face or troll?

[MagPrime]

5 hours ago, Leo.doodling said:

Moving money between Russian banks and the rest of the world is currently very difficult due to sanctions.

It may have started as a bug but a handful of days later, DE decided to roll with it.  https://www.warframe.com/news/important-update

[MagPrime]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Whatever “pronouns” DE wants to give the Warframe is whatever,

I just, I know you don't want to jump into this but I feel it's important to be clear about what pronouns are; it's just what you use to describe yourself.  If you say "I'm a guy" then you're using pronouns.  If someone says "That's YoungGun, he's cool" then they're using pronouns.  It's not a new concept, it's just been...radicalized? I guess?  Become a trigger word? because the loudest people have over used it and it now creates an emotional reaction. 

So DE has given Excalibutt "he/him" pronouns, Mag has she/her, Mesa is she/her.  It's not a sexual orientation, it's an identity and DE gave it to them when they created the Warframes with the limited and chaotic lore they have.  (it's kinda the only consistent lore most of them have had)

[Anaktoria]

5 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I just, I know you don't want to jump into this but I feel it's important to be clear about what pronouns are; it's just what you use to describe yourself.  If you say "I'm a guy" then you're using pronouns.  If someone says "That's YoungGun, he's cool" then they're using pronouns.  It's not a new concept, it's just been...radicalized? I guess?  Become a trigger word? because the loudest people have over used it and it now creates an emotional reaction. 

So DE has given Excalibutt "he/him" pronouns, Mag has she/her, Mesa is she/her.  It's not a sexual orientation, it's an identity and DE gave it to them when they created the Warframes with the limited and chaotic lore they have.  (it's kinda the only consistent lore most of them have had)

Well put, ha (though I'd nitpick that technically saying "I'm a guy" isn't using pronouns, but it does typically imply that one uses a specific set of pronouns, i.e. "he/him/his"). It's kind of funny, actually, seeing people sometimes saying, "I have no pronouns. I'm not into that stuff." Well, er, are we then to refer to you by nothing by your name? "Bob has no pronouns; Bob isn't into that stuff. Bob says Bob doesn't like that kind of thing." (And you'd use these in first person and second person too, so technically, Bob would say to Alice, "Bob has no pronouns. Bob isn't into that stuff. No, Bob isn't a caveman. Alice is making Bob upset.")

Anyhow, yeah, I do think the community is generally comfortable with calling Mag "she" and Excalibur "he" (and to a degree, Xaku "they," though I've unfortunately seen cases of push-back on this one). It's when you explicitly mention the word "pronouns" that people are suddenly weird about it. Pronouns are just a regular, age-old part of English, friends, much as verbs or nouns are. Nothing to be afraid of...

(I think some players genuinely also don't realize that plain old humans were in fact the literal, physical core and basis of Warframes, so that might be part of the weirdness one sometimes encounters when talking about Warframes and their pronouns. Our friend Gunn here certainly seems not to have noticed, but I dunno.)

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I think you lost this one.

Sure, ok spicy you win I loose. 

8 hours ago, Anaktoria said:

(I think some players genuinely also don't realize that plain old humans were in fact the literal, physical core and basis of Warframes, so that might be part of the weirdness one sometimes encounters when talking about Warframes and their pronouns. Our friend Gunn here certainly seems not to have noticed, but I dunno.)

You know what it’s just not worth it. Believe what you want to believe. But it’s cringy to me shipping a tank and a sports car together, or calling a magic turret non-binary. 

 

9 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I just, I know you don't want to jump into this but I feel it's important to be clear about what pronouns are; it's just what you use to describe yourself.  If you say "I'm a guy" then you're using pronouns.  If someone says "That's YoungGun, he's cool" then they're using pronouns.  It's not a new concept, it's just been...radicalized? I guess?  Become a trigger word? because the loudest people have over used it and it now creates an emotional reaction. 

So DE has given Excalibutt "he/him" pronouns, Mag has she/her, Mesa is she/her.  It's not a sexual orientation, it's an identity and DE gave it to them when they created the Warframes with the limited and chaotic lore they have.  (it's kinda the only consistent lore most of them have had)

It’s is important Maggie. I appreciate you. And your friendship. Thank you. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by (XBOX)YoungGunn82

[Anaktoria]

Most recent topics of conversation (and poor Gunn) aside, I must say, I like the new stuff. The logo/Pride combo icon they're using on their Twitter and so on actually looks pretty nice. I'd love to have the Pride Lotus as a Glyph in-game.

Don't get me wrong - Debbysheen's art on the Glyph they released this time is very cute and well made, and I like that Glyph too. But I'm a real sucker for simple, elegant designs (check my current avatar, for example), and the Progress Pride Lotus look they've got going is really quite nice - I'd love to see that up next year.

Great stuff, DE, thank you for it all. I appreciate that it's available for free (or essentially free) - feels like a show of genuine support, personally, speaking as someone who is gay. Kudos!

Edited June 12, 2022 by Anaktoria

[SpicyDinosaur]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Sure, ok spicy you win I loose. 

good response. I actually think Anaktoria did a better job of responding to you. But pearls before swine and what not.

[VoidArkhangel]

En 11/6/2022 a las 20:47, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 dijo:

Warframe’s aren’t human.

I was like "but they were... oh, they were" Warframes were human but after the infestation they became pretty much mindless golems just like Ballas was told so, while they were humans once, they aren't anymore.

Kind of funny thinking how many people in today's world would get pretty salty if you call them by what they were...

En 11/6/2022 a las 20:47, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 dijo:

Warframe’s don’t have feelings or emotions.

This is somewhat wrong since we can see warframes have emotions and feelings in The Sacrifice, they are just suppressed because y'know... drones created to win wars shouldnt have any of those.

Anyways, I feel sad that today's people only see what they want to see but well... next time cut it sooner.

[Scruffel]

Okay I know the situation has been "resolved", I still want to reply since I was directly quoted. 

On 2022-06-11 at 8:47 PM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Whatever “pronouns” DE wants to give the Warframe is whatever, but that doesn’t change the fact that Warframe’s don’t have genitalia.

While gender is usually determined by sex in some cases, sex is not the sole determiner of gender. Hell, we refer to stuff in a gendered fashion when they don't have a concept of sex in general, like cars or boats. 

On 2022-06-11 at 8:47 PM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Warframe’s don’t have genitalia. Warframe’s aren’t human. Warframe’s don’t have a sexual preferences. Warframe’s don’t have feelings or emotions. Warframe’s don’t even have a mouth. Warframe’s are weapons. To say otherwise is lore breaking and silly. Warframe’s are infested tissue and metal.

Ok the mouth part is untrue because Grendel is literally there. But in all seriousness, I think this is a very strange hill to die on because not only have Warframes been gendered in the past with no issue (besides Xaku but that's just general enbyphobia if anything) but also these details could be used to just refute any sort of creative spin or vision one would have for a Warframe based on their design or character. I mean, you might as well have said that Warframes' are actually fictional and not real, and that they are also just pixels in your computer. But I don't think it would be fair to simply disregard them as such, right?

On 2022-06-11 at 8:47 PM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Yea I also find it cringe shipping any frames together too. All of Rule 34 is vary strange and cringe to me.

Except shipping is not inherently sexual while Rule 34 clearly is? Also, if I'm gonna be honest, I literally don't care about ships at all unless the creators of said characters have explicitly stated not to do so or the pairing in question encourages bad or downright immoral behavior like abusive behavior or dubious age differences. But I feel like that's pretty obvious.

On 2022-06-11 at 8:47 PM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

I’m all for LGBTQ pride and rights and am proud of many in my family, but pretending Warframe’s have a sexual preference is bizarre-o.

I don't trust that you do honestly. It seems like you have a "the gays are taking it too far" mentally that really only perpetuates the marginalization of certain groups and minorities by calling out harmless tendencies that you disagree with. Which I know seems unfair, but considering how long Warframe has existed and many ships alongside that, it feels very weird to complain about it *now* that two characters are implicitly being paired together. Especially ya know, it being one of the homo variety in a sense.  

Like, I'm not saying that you have to prove yourself to me or anything, but from the way you came in hostile from the get-go and still seem to not respect the choice of others, it just feels odd to me. But if you really do care, and do not want to continue, then so be it. 

[vanaukas]

On 2022-06-11 at 10:54 AM, Sean said:

It's also pretty funny (well... sad really) how just being for human rights / equality is even considered politics.

Human rights are politics tho. Human rights it's not only your right to exist, HUman rights exist as a tool forf protection of common regular people against extrme circumstances. To have human rights lots of politices were involved.

This article summarizes a lot of what happened to reach our current Human Rigths status: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#History

Human rights are politics and there is nothing wrong with it. Politics is not a "bad word".

[Anaktoria]

2 hours ago, Scruffel said:

It seems like you have a "the gays are taking it too far" mentally that really only perpetuates the marginalization of certain groups and minorities by calling out harmless tendencies that you disagree with. Which I know seems unfair, but considering how long Warframe has existed and many ships alongside that, it feels very weird to complain about it *now* that two characters are implicitly being paired together. Especially ya know, it being one of the homo variety in a sense.  

Like, I'm not saying that you have to prove yourself to me or anything, but from the way you came in hostile from the get-go and still seem to not respect the choice of others, it just feels odd to me. But if you really do care, and do not want to continue, then so be it. 

Well now, that's an interesting point. It's common to see complaints like Gunn's (i.e. that frames don't have sexualities or certain anatomies, which, as I explained to them, hasn't been confirmed or disconfirmed either way) pop up conveniently only when there's an "unorthodox" pairing involved. There is this frankly adorable Glyph from Valentine's 2017 that apparently shows Nyx giving Captain Vor a giant, ribbon-wrapped heart. Yet I don't seem to find evidence of Gunn or anyone else objecting to this Glyph when it released, or upon its inclusion in more recent Valentine's events. Same goes for this likewise adorable Glyph of a Grineer Lancer giving a love letter to a blushing, heart-spouting Nova, that in-game Display art of Volt and Mag holding hands, and that other one of Ember and Frost embracing (which, yes, both Displays are ascended fanart, but so are the vast majority of Glyphs, which was an earlier point of mine - neither are canonical, both are just images the artist decided would be fun to draw, and neither deserve uproar based on being "new canon that I don't like." But I digress.)

Interesting, isn't it? Certainly that could be a coincidence. Certainly any one of these oh-so-innocent objectors could really be cross-their-heart-and-hope-to-die proponents of gay people who just shun any and all kinds of love where Warframes are involved, and they conveniently forgot to complain when the Nyx/Vor and Nova/Lancer Glyphs dropped. Certainly Gunn was just having a bad day when they ranted on and on about goofy things that nobody mentioned here (like shipping sports cars together) and sidestepped the actual simple, logical arguments being made. Certainly it's chance that this all happened on a thread about Pride and not on any other topic.

I'm frankly tired of how this happens every time (every time) there's some kind of Pride event in gaming communities, so I'll leave the disappointing thought-thread there and focus on the fact that this new Glyph featuring Banshee and Octavia is, in fact, cute art that I really like, and I'm happy DE released it.

1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

Human rights are politics tho. Human rights it's not only your right to exist, HUman rights exist as a tool forf protection of common regular people against extrme circumstances. To have human rights lots of politices were involved.

This article summarizes a lot of what happened to reach our current Human Rigths status: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#History

Human rights are politics and there is nothing wrong with it. Politics is not a "bad word".

Well, that's a fair point. Politics and human rights are innately entwined, are unavoidable in Warframe and many games at large, and that's not a bad thing.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Anaktoria

[MagPrime]

How can you have this in game and not offer it as a purchasable print?