The impact AoE nerf could have

[0_The_F00l]

15 minutes ago, AbyssalSerpent said:

This, but people always seem to think that nerfing, rather than tending to the core issue is always the #1 solution.

Curious as to what you consider the core issue to be , please elaborate.

2 hours ago, (PSN)icecell6 said:

So first all secondary weapon including exalteds have 100% cc, next secondary weapon will provide energy per damage delt (this can be gained even through channeled abilities), now all secondaries including exalteds now have a pax arcane slot and a regular arcane slot for merciless, alright so next all duel wilded secondary weapons have 25% increased fire rate, and crit damage which stacks, and they can also be modded separately, again including exalteds.

This feels like a specific ask to make mesas regulators stronger in a very thinly disguised attempt to make it look like something else.

You do realise that it's not the per shot damage that is the problem. No matter how fast you can pull the trigger and how much damage it does it's still going to target one enemy (and maybe luckily hit two more if pt exists).

Since AoE can target multiple enemies , and enemies tend to appear in clumps it gives them a much better advantage as well to clear them. 

[Numerikuu]

2 hours ago, (PSN)icecell6 said:

So first all secondary weapon including exalteds have 100% cc, next secondary weapon will provide energy per damage delt (this can be gained even through channeled abilities), now all secondaries including exalteds now have a pax arcane slot and a regular arcane slot for merciless, alright so next all duel wilded secondary weapons have 25% increased fire rate, and crit damage which stacks, and they can also be modded separately, again including exalteds.

[Birdframe_Prime]

15 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Point is that the game has kept up, but I agree that DE has also not utilized it as often as they should (mainly in terms of evergreen content for vets).

No, no you've completely missed the point. The point is that the game hasn't kept up.

It's not about 'evergreen rewards' or 'endgame' or anything like that for people like you and me. That has not been part of anything I've said here.

It's about raw content, things to do with the things that we actually have. Not even about the reasons to do them, not about the rewards, just things to actually do.

Even level 1-10 content should have something to actually do on it that isn't a combination of 'shoot bad guys, wait for timers, run to next location'. It should have more things as long as we have access to more than guns, abilities and movement. The second we get more than those three base things is when content needs to be available for those things to actually have a purpose in the game.

Something to do that exists for all of the things that we have to offer; shooting, melee, parkour, spoiler-mode, necramechs, heavy weapons, everything. Maybe not all at once, but across the whole game. We shouldn't have to only ever go to the open landscapes, Railjack to use our Necramech. We shouldn't have to relegate our Spoiler Mode to yet another buffing tool for our Warframes. There should be content for these things across the entire game. Different benefits to using them or not using them.

Things that the newer players can see, ahead of time, to think 'I wonder how you would access that thing?' and then they unlock a new item or gear thing and think 'Oh! you use this to access that thing I keep seeing in missions'.

Anything at all that is part of the base missions that we take on. 

Enemies have not been introduced in a state where we are actually required to interact with them. They are introduced in a state of 'you must kill this in the shortest time frame possible, or you must entirely ignore it on the way to somewhere else'.

A bare minimum of missions have been introduced, and never at the time the new power-upgrade was released, that require these new powers to interact with them. Only the most recent missions in the game were introduced with the presence of Spoiler Mode actually written into the base functions.

That's why I commented at all on this thread.

Power creep is absolutely fine in a constantly updating game.

If there is no content that requiring us to use the aspects of power creep we've been given, then that's what makes it the wrong kind of power creep.

[AbyssalSerpent]

28 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Curious as to what you consider the core issue to be , please elaborate.

2 hours ago, (PSN)icecell6 said:

I get so sick of repeating myself or people not reading what the previous person said: How will nerfing AoE fix the game becoming horde-shootery over the years? The reason why AoE is used so much is because back then before late 2017 this game wasn't as horde shootery, where you were able to bring a simple loadout in the Star Chart like a Soma/Prime, an Akmagnus and a Lesion, where stealth actually mattered (without relying on invisibility) and so did taking cover behind objects. Nowadays using an AoE weapon or warframe ability is a must since you're surrounded by enemies left-and-right, top, bottom, front and back. Simply nerfing AoE will do the opposite of help, and neither will buffing single-target weapons, but for whatever reason most of you are also against reasonable suggestions such as toning it down on enemy spawn rates outside of SP, Defense and Interception missions or toning it down on the mod capacity of punch-through mods to make single-target weapons more viable.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb AbyssalSerpent:

I get so sick of repeating myself or people not reading what the previous person said: How will nerfing AoE fix the game becoming horde-shootery over the years? The reason why AoE is used so much is because back then before late 2017 this game wasn't as horde shootery, where you were able to bring a simple loadout in the Star Chart like a Soma/Prime, an Akmagnus and a Lesion, where stealth actually mattered (without relying on invisibility) and so did taking cover behind objects. Nowadays using an AoE weapon or warframe ability is a must since you're surrounded by enemies left-and-right, top, bottom, front and back. Simply nerfing AoE will do the opposite of help, and neither will buffing single-target weapons, but for whatever reason most of you are also against reasonable suggestions such as toning it down on enemy spawn rates outside of SP, Defense and Interception missions or toning it down on the mod capacity of punch-through mods to make single-target weapons more viable.

Yes. always the same chewing gum. or they can't read. or they just ignore it. or even worse .... 😉

in addition, many warframes cannot tank the damage. because without an aoe weapon, i'll die faster than you think with 100 armor warframe... and yes! It's about normal missions, where my volt with 700 health is constantly on the ground - which I also saw in arbi yesterday. 2 people were killed instantly after wave 35 and this was a top group with a lot of damage and we did wave 35 in much less than 20 mins.

so... instead of increasing single damage DRAMATICALLY, should 1-3 usable aoe weapons be useless?

[(PSN)Unstar]

How to fix the AoE meta: nerf AoE weapons.

It's not complicated.  Why does everyone want to make it complicated.

[MutoManiac]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

How to fix the AoE meta: nerf AoE weapons.

It's not complicated.  Why does everyone want to make it complicated.

As long as they don’t touch Wukong, I’m good with this. 

[BatVenomPL]

1 hour ago, m_a_r_c_h_ said:

As long as they don’t touch Wukong, I’m good with this. 

They will touch Wukong. He's by far the most played Warframe, even more than the poster boy himself - Excalibur

[gamingchair1121]

>"how to fix aoe"

>buffs secondaries

>leaves single target primaries alone

[Hkiller099]

Probably about as much as AoE Haters have filled the forums these past 2 months. I still don't get where's the fun in making everyone go happy go lucky with CO Kronen again, tho. But to each their own. I only hope all those people complaining won't come here with tears after the nerf talking about how they're still unable to kill with their Braton Vandal before someone goes past them zooming around with their Kronen or Guandao Prime

[Venus-Venera]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Hkiller099:

Probably about as much as AoE Haters have filled the forums these past 2 months. I still don't get where's the fun in making everyone go happy go lucky with CO Kronen again, tho. But to each their own. I only hope all those people complaining won't come here with tears after the nerf talking about how they're still unable to kill with their Braton Vandal before someone goes past them zooming around with their Kronen or Guandao Prime

there will always be tears.
and are they the same people? maybe they escaped from a "special" facility? I've had most of them on ignore for a long time.

Yes. the whole thing will ruin the game and slow it down a lot. because surv/def etc. are not that popular. but this is exactly where top aoe warframes show their potential. and that would be saryn, mag, volt etc.

[ShogunGunshow]

Metas change. Adapt.

[George_PPS]

On 2022-08-15 at 12:11 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Disclaimer: I hope AOE is nerfed soon so people have less to complain about.

But this is still an issue with players not utilizing recruit and clans properly.

Players aren't going to just magically be silent after the wukong and AOE nerf, they're gonna find something else to complain about, because there's always gonna be a person faster than the next guy.

Range mods and people with faster reflexes and timing still exist. 

I'm sure there's some "No AOE" discord or clan out there where all these people can congregate. 

They can still go to recruit and say "Need non AOE users for arbitration 45min" etc.

Someone's always gonna take your kills regardless.

It's a human nature to dislike and want to nerf whatever is the best and the most powerful. Players always have had fun with whatever meta things are at the time until they get nerfed. Every time my favorite warframes or weapons get nerfed, I play a bit less. It's that simply. Once the game is nerfed to the realm of Call of Duty pace and style, I and some other players might as well as just quit. 

[ShogunGunshow]

The game has only gotten faster and faster over the years. Even if they squish the AoE meta, I'm sure they'll come up with an idea a few months later that's even more shortsighted and allows even faster clearing. 

The game is not going to slow down that much, so stop acting like those people who claimed that they were going to quit after coptering was removed, or after Itzal blink was nerfed and proliferated, or after Telos Boltace was nerfed, or after Atterax corner-sliding was killed, etc. etc.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

It's a human nature to dislike and want to nerf whatever is the best and the most powerful. Players always have had fun with whatever meta things are at the time until they get nerfed. Every time my favorite warframes or weapons get nerfed, I play a bit less. It's that simply. Once the game is nerfed to the realm of Call of Duty pace and style, I and some other players might as well as just quit. 

Yes, it's human nature to bandwagon. I agree. 

Things like playing a game just because you like it, are rare. 

People need someone else to tell them to like something.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

10 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

I want to see this op mesa. bubbles, eximus, line of sight and and and...
and as you switch back and forth, saryn does aoe damage in 3-5 rooms.

and there is only one aoe weapon with top performance. 2 are ok. rest either has major disadvantages or does extremely little damage like lenz.

and meta tarbuleta omgeta is in other games. I couldn't find any here...

Just as i said, there are pretty much 3 kuva aoe weps which are the AoE metas core. Zarr /ogris and bramma. Rather nerf AoE as whole, it be more reasonable that they get some more tuning, still being the powerhouse in dmg/kill sector, while limiting spam factor. 

But by the way you always protect them, its noticable which one you use :) and dont want to get changed hehe.

[0_The_F00l]

8 hours ago, AbyssalSerpent said:

I get so sick of repeating myself or people not reading what the previous person said: How will nerfing AoE fix the game becoming horde-shootery over the years? The reason why AoE is used so much is because back then before late 2017 this game wasn't as horde shootery, where you were able to bring a simple loadout in the Star Chart like a Soma/Prime, an Akmagnus and a Lesion, where stealth actually mattered (without relying on invisibility) and so did taking cover behind objects. Nowadays using an AoE weapon or warframe ability is a must since you're surrounded by enemies left-and-right, top, bottom, front and back. Simply nerfing AoE will do the opposite of help, and neither will buffing single-target weapons, but for whatever reason most of you are also against reasonable suggestions such as toning it down on enemy spawn rates outside of SP, Defense and Interception missions or toning it down on the mod capacity of punch-through mods to make single-target weapons more viable.

My apologies If i somehow offended , but it really wasn't clear what you actually were trying to highlight , there was no ulterior motive behind my query. It's clearer now.

And the games spawn rate and AI has not really changed too much (though there are more specialised units) so it's not more or less "horde shootery" outside of specific missions than it was earlier. What has changed is the number of enemies you can kill simultaneously leading to enemies spawning simultaneously from the same room making it feel that they are coming in a swarm. If you pick them off one by one they will appear one by one over larger distances.

Endless missions is where this becomes most overt as one tends to stay in place for a time and the enemies come from limited entrances giving advantage to area damage. But is still easily completed even without aoe weapons, though it tends to be more challenging/difficult.

Non endless missions can be completed much more covertly. But that rarely happens because players tend to use the same tactics for both (blow S#&$ up) , and they work just as well.

There is of course the issue to increasingly rarer rewards locked behind increasingly longer grind (this definitely has changed) , making players play it as a horde shooter as it's fastest.

I would be happy if that is changed somehow to be less RNG dependant.

This issue becomes more of a problem in squads where different players want to play differently , but the one with the bigger boom does not leave much room for others to play covertly.

And while one can choose to play solo  that should really not be a solution for a co op game. And the recruit mechanic is really really poor , so better matchmaking is also something i really wish for.

Also , not sure who you are refering to as "most of you" , i don't recollect sharing my opinions on spawn rates or punchthrough for single target weapons. Would appreciate it if you don't generalise in such a way or assume every question is somehow an attempt to diminish your own opinions.

8 hours ago, (PSN)icecell6 said:

-that moment everyone thinks your post is about mesa but your a Titania Prime main-

Ah , i guessed wrong. It's a thinly disguised buff for the dex pixia :)

[mycroft_]

19 hours ago, -EPECb- said:

Listening to outside advice is one thing. Understanding the consequences of applying these tips is quite another.

Very true. And they often don't listen, even when the feedback is overwhelming and unified:
 

Quote

You have requested many times (many, many, times) to have a UI toggle that will give you control over whether Gara's glass armor parts will "shatter" while using Splinter Storm...

Given how persistent and unified this feedback is, we've decided to simply make this power not remove her armor plates while it is active.

And later commenters in that thread have it right. "Good news Tenno, you requested a toggle so we've made that change compulsory!" "This is a terrible excuse, and the complexity is worth the effort." "I am disappointed that the dev team won't entertain the idea of making this a toggle because it "might break something"" "This is a deeply disappointing outcome." "In the end I'm quite disappointed, not because the change is being made but because of how divisive it is for no good reason. "

If basic game-improving features like this aren't implemented ever, things are just going to keep getting worse. It seems like development only has the capacity to handle brand new content, or stuff that's objectively gamebreaking. They don't have the capacity to work on anything else. And that's a problem.

[George_PPS]

6 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

The game has only gotten faster and faster over the years. Even if they squish the AoE meta, I'm sure they'll come up with an idea a few months later that's even more shortsighted and allows even faster clearing. 

The game is not going to slow down that much, so stop acting like those people who claimed that they were going to quit after coptering was removed, or after Itzal blink was nerfed and proliferated, or after Telos Boltace was nerfed, or after Atterax corner-sliding was killed, etc. etc.

So there is no point of killing of these extremely fun and fluid movement elements in the game that’s known of such fast action. I and many players do not appreciate for the sake of change some great movements or mechanics  got destroyed in place of much inferior movement systems  or weapons. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

I don't see a problem with it.

Well I do, but the rest of the community doesn't, considering how everytime DE adds yet another bullet sponge enemy who's best way to kill them it just use big guns and damage, everyone claps like seals.

So obviously there's nothing wrong with the Power Creep. If everyone is always fine with the next addition of 'Enemy with a Bajillion HP' so why complain about us having a weapon that does the same?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb AntifreezeUnder0:

Just as i said, there are pretty much 3 kuva aoe weps which are the AoE metas core. Zarr /ogris and bramma. Rather nerf AoE as whole, it be more reasonable that they get some more tuning, still being the powerhouse in dmg/kill sector, while limiting spam factor. 

But by the way you always protect them, its noticable which one you use :) and dont want to get changed hehe.

we don't want to get personal, do we?
and if you are already checking profiles, then you would have seen which account it is. It's no secret that I've maxed almost everything, have best mods and top builds. nothing will change for me. because I would speed run missions almost as fast, if not faster.
but it changes blatantly for my acquaintances and friends. because most of them will be hit very hard.

and you claim that bramma top is aoe weapon? then I can only laugh. without top mods (hello 400 logins for primed sure footed), sp arcane, carrier, possibly also warframe skills, NOTHING works there.

 

[Dakotych]

15 hours ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Nope, still wrong. I know what exactly needs to be done to fix this meta. 

 

But I'm not saying it until one of you guess it right.

Return AOE self-damage? instead of this stagger joke

[Venus-Venera]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Dakotych:

Return AOE self-damage? instead of this stagger joke

[AntifreezeUnder0]

4 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

we don't want to get personal, do we?
and if you are already checking profiles, then you would have seen which account it is. It's no secret that I've maxed almost everything, have best mods and top builds. nothing will change for me. because I would speed run missions almost as fast, if not faster.
but it changes blatantly for my acquaintances and friends. because most of them will be hit very hard.

and you claim that bramma top is aoe weapon? then I can only laugh. without top mods (hello 400 logins for primed sure footed), sp arcane, carrier, possibly also warframe skills, NOTHING works there.

 

No i said bramma is one of the aoe meta core weps. But you just like to take things out of context. AoE meta can get fixed if tune the holy trinity.Which you clearly dont like.

As if you need sure footed to bypass the self stagger. As if status immunity doesnt exist. Talk about top builds.

[TeaHands]

4 hours ago, Dakotych said:

Return AOE self-damage? instead of this stagger joke

Not even close!