Archgun REWORK / Buff ideas

[Sevenus.]

Feels sad how Archguns are introduced as heavy space weapons that can be used on ground missions upon getting a gravimag, while normal weapons output them in damage and turn archguns less effective in higher level missions.

I came up with some changes that could turn archguns into a category that suit the name "heavy weapons" :

***I Will edit the tread to change or add new ideas over time from comments and things ill come up with***

Archgun rework ideas :

Increase base stats :   most archguns especially archguns that have been released before the Larkspur are outclassed by pretty much everything in higher level content.

(EDIT)Increased damage against Eximus units :  This will provide something special to archguns on normal missions that normal weapons do not have.  as they are considered "heavy weaponry" and require a gravimag upgrade. make it more rewarding to use archguns as heavy weapons.

 

(EDIT)Archgun summon animation:

T    -The summon animation is quite long and the warframe is volnurable to damage during the animation and you can't do anything to evade it, in alot of cases the player dies because he was summoning an archgun .

     -Arcane/mod that speeds up summon speed.

     -Immunity/reduced damaged taken when summoning an archgun.

 

-

 

 

 

1.      Add exilus slot for archguns :

-        Exilus mod ideas : beam length , projectile flight speed , ammo max , archgun summon animation speed.

-(EDIT) Ammo mutation mod for archgun exilus mod : the only two ways currently to get ammo are corpus units that use archgun during profit taker fights and using dispensary.

 

-     Unlocked by using Exilus Weapon Adapter dropped from Requiem Relics.

 

 

2.      Add archgun arcanes  :

-        Arcane adapter obtainable from teshin’s shop.

-        Archgun merciless / dexterity / deadhead arcanes.

-        Turn arcane Tanker into an archgun arcane. (instead of warframe), intead of a 60 seconds buff make it buff while using archgun.

 

 

2.1.  Other Archgun arcane ideas :

- ON DEPLOYMENT : increase movement speed and aim glide while archgun is active.(this could also be an exilus mod).

-ON KILL  : x chance to drop mutated(all ammo) or archgun ammo.

-Turn ammo into rechargeable magazine.

-  ammo efficiency

 

3.      New Archgun Mods :
-(EDIT) increase the value of base mods such as critical chance, critical damage, status chance etc.

 -Dual stat mods like Lethal Torrent (Fire rate + Multishot)

 -New Set mods that involve archgun+warframe and buff when using archguns

 -(EDIT)New Set mods that involve archgun+Necramech .

 -Corrupted mods (+crit – fire rate , +damage +spread etc)

* new mods can be dropped from Profit taker phases as it’s the first archgun boss fight.

 

4.      Change Archgun Gravimag Cooldown ideas :

-        Same cooldown regardless of how much ammo you have left(currently less ammo left= more ccooldown)

-     Ammo mutation mod for archguns(mentioned in the mod section of the thread)

 

 

Bonus :

-Tenet Archguns (please)

[Pakaku]

I'd want to see all of them get a damage buff of some capacity first. Some are already great (Larkspur, Kuva Ayanga, Corvas Prime) and don't need as much of a buff... but all archguns should all feel like they're worth the gravimag, even the lowest fodder, if they're still intended to be temporary summoned guns. So if something like the base Imperator becomes a powerhouse, the others will need to be adjusted, too.

Second thing after that would be to look into tweaking the cooldown timers. Some guns are intended to be lighter archguns, like the Dual Decurions, so give those weapons the biggest cooldown reductions. Guns which are major damage dealers don't even really need a reduction.

New mods, new arcanes, new slots... sure, we always get those. But I'm tired of "buffs/fixes" like that, which we are forced to put in the work to grind for, and which don't actually do anything about the actual core issues.

[Sevenus.]

7 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I'd want to see all of them get a damage buff of some capacity first. Some are already great (Larkspur, Kuva Ayanga, Corvas Prime) and don't need as much of a buff... but all archguns should all feel like they're worth the gravimag, even the lowest fodder, if they're still intended to be temporary summoned guns. So if something like the base Imperator becomes a powerhouse, the others will need to be adjusted, too.

Second thing after that would be to look into tweaking the cooldown timers. Some guns are intended to be lighter archguns, like the Dual Decurions, so give those weapons the biggest cooldown reductions. Guns which are major damage dealers don't even really need a reduction.

New mods, new arcanes, new slots... sure, we always get those. But I'm tired of "buffs/fixes" like that, which we are forced to put in the work to grind for, and which don't actually do anything about the actual core issues.

I mentioned stat buffs and cooldown change on gravimag, would be a good idea to have cooldown changed based on "how heavy" the weapon is tbh.

I suppose archguns that have been added after the Larkspur are adjusted with higher stats for normal missions and higher levels, we also got Corvas prime recently which is good. but yeah stat buffs would be appreciated to make them worth the gravimag and actually feel like heavy super weapons.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

1 hour ago, Sevenus. said:

Feels sad how Archguns are introduced as heavy space weapons that can be used on ground missions upon getting a gravimag, while normal weapons output them in damage and turn archguns less effective in higher level missions.

I came up with some changes that could turn archguns into a category that suit the name "heavy weapons" :

Archgun rework ideas :

Increase base stats :   most archguns especially archguns that have been released before the Larkspur are not suited for higher level content.

1.      Add exilus slot for archguns :

-        Exilus mod ideas : beam length , projectile flight speed , ammo max , reduce summon time .

 

-     Unlocked by using Exilus Weapon Adapter dropped from Requiem Relics.

 

 

2.      Add archgun arcanes  :

-        Arcane adapter obtainable from teshin’s shop.

-        Archgun merciless / dexterity / deadhead arcanes.

-        Turn arcane Tanker into an archgun arcane. (instead of warframe), intead of a 60 seconds buff make it buff while using archgun.

 

 

2.1.  Other Archgun arcane ideas :

- ON DEPLOYMENT : increase movement speed and aim glide while archgun is active.(this could also be an exilus mod).

-ON KILL  : x chance to drop mutated(all ammo) or archgun ammo.

-Turn ammo into rechargeable magazine.

-  ammo efficiency

 

3.      New Archgun Mods :

              -Dual stat mods like Lethal Torrent (Fire rate + Multishot)

              -New Set mods that involve archgun+warframe and buff when using archguns

              -Corrupted mods (+crit – fire rate , +damage +spread etc)

* new mods can be dropped from Profit taker phases as it’s the first archgun boss fight.

 

4.      Change Archgun Gravimag Cooldown :

-        Same cooldown regardless of how much ammo you have left(currently more ammo = less cooldown)

 

 

Bonus :

-Tenet Archguns (please)

 

Loved everything you said, agreed 👍 what I'd also say is Archgun's should do bonus damage to Eximus.

And maybe  archgun set mods could include Necramechs? 🤔  

[Sevenus.]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

 

Loved everything you said, agreed 👍 what I'd also say is Archgun's should do bonus damage to Eximus.

And maybe  archgun set mods could include Necramechs? 🤔  

oh wow, ill edit my post to include it if you don't mind.  these are really good ideas.

[Leqesai]

36 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

Archgun's should do bonus damage to Eximus.

This is the only change I'd like to see.

[Sevenus.]

23 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This is the only change I'd like to see.

Archguns will still need a damage buff one way or another, like they did to guns for steelpath by inteoducing primary/secondary arcanes at the very least.

 

Base stat buffs to update for the current difficulty would be necessary too as alot of old archguns are build for lvl 50 max hell they do not work well in railjack either.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, Sevenus. said:

Archguns will still need a damage buff one way or another, like they did to guns for steelpath by inteoducing primary/secondary arcanes at the very least.

 

Base stat buffs to update for the current difficulty would be necessary too as alot of old archguns are build for lvl 50 max hell they do not work well in railjack either.

I disagree. There are strong arch guns and there are weak arch guns. Just like there are strong+weak primary, secondary, and melee weapons.

[Sevenus.]

6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I disagree. There are strong arch guns and there are weak arch guns. Just like there are strong+weak primary, secondary, and melee weapons.

What i meant is that Archguns, at least some should be on par with normal guns, its wierd that through the gravimag they are introduced as heavy weapons that only they are strong enough and can inflict damage to the profit taker because of it's armor.

 

When you take them to higher level missions they are quite easily outclassed by normal weapons, and im not talking just about ground missions, im talking about railjack and archwing missions too.

 

Sorry if my grammar is not good im trying to figure out the right words to explain myself.

[Leqesai]

43 minutes ago, Sevenus. said:

What i meant is that Archguns, at least some should be on par with normal guns, its wierd that through the gravimag they are introduced as heavy weapons that only they are strong enough and can inflict damage to the profit taker because of it's armor.

 

When you take them to higher level missions they are quite easily outclassed by normal weapons, and im not talking just about ground missions, im talking about railjack and archwing missions too.

 

Sorry if my grammar is not good im trying to figure out the right words to explain myself.

Yeah I get what you are saying. I disagree.

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

Yeah, even if there's weaker archguns they are still "heavy weapons" and should still at here to a base standard of heavy weapon. 

 

 

[Tyreaus]

Curious that mod reworks aren't included. Dual Rounds is just 60% multishot (even Split Chamber gives 90%). Rubedo-Lined Barrel gives 100% damage (Serration is 150%). Parallax Scope and Hollowed Bullets is 100% CC and 80% CD (Point Strike is 150%, Vital Sense is 120%). The mods we have are weaker than rifle ones, and rifles tend to be on the weaker side modding-wise, with special mods like Hunter Munitions often making up for it.

Colour me crazy but I think it'd go a ways if the mods we have got a bit of a touch-up, at least to match rifle mods if not get bumped up to pistol ones.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

Yeah, even if there's weaker archguns they are still "heavy weapons" and should still at here to a base standard of heavy weapon. 

Disagree with this entire sentence. Some archguns are not truly meant to be used as "heavy" weapons. They are first and foremost, space weapons. Not ground weapons.

[Leqesai]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Disagree with this entire sentence. Some archguns are not truly meant to be used as "heavy" weapons. They are first and foremost, space weapons. Not ground weapons.

^This guy gets it

[fo3nixz]

faction damage mods please?

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Disagree with this entire sentence. Some archguns are not truly meant to be used as "heavy" weapons. They are first and foremost, space weapons. Not ground weapons.

I Disagree with your disagreement, as "space weapons" they are bigger, higher caliber round heavy weapons and as such should deal more damage to non ship based things. 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

10 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

I Disagree with your disagreement, as "space weapons" they are bigger, higher caliber round heavy weapons and as such should deal more damage to non ship based things. 

So, your whole disagreement is around just 3 weapons? Because only 3 of them apply to your description.

[Leqesai]

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

I Disagree with your disagreement, as "space weapons" they are bigger, higher caliber round heavy weapons and as such should deal more damage to non ship based things. 

They're for use in space, not for taking out "ships"

Have you played many archwing missions? You're fighting robots and guys in jetpacks and/or dargyn flight machines...

Using archwing in Railjack missions where there are actual fighter ships illustrates how they're drastically less effective than actual anti-ship weaponry (railjack guns).

Edit: I will say it makes little sense why we are using the space guns for submersible content though...

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So, your whole disagreement is around just 3 weapons? Because only 3 of them apply to your description.

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

They're for use in space, not for taking out "ships"

Have you played many archwing missions? You're fighting robots and guys in jetpacks and/or dargyn flight machines...

Using archwing in Railjack missions where there are actual fighter ships illustrates how they're drastically less effective than actual anti-ship weaponry (railjack guns).

 

The point still stands; quite a few Archguns aren't up to par with Primaries, and considering how limited our mod selection currently is, I'd prefer something over nothing.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

The point still stands; quite a few Archguns aren't up to par with Primaries, and considering how limited our mod selection currently is, I'd prefer something over nothing.

The 'point' is ridiculous. This is an apples to oranges comparison. The high-end arch guns are perfectly fine the way they are and the lower end arch-guns are certainly not in need of buffs. Just like we don't need buffs to the lower rank primary and secondary weapons to bring them in line with the high end weapons in their respective class. 

We will, inevitably, get more powerful arch guns. That's the nature of power-progression, and along the way we'll also see random spatterings of mods that will, in effect, buff up the weaker arch guns.

Every player gets the Mausulon through natural progression and that's really all anyone needs. The other arch guns (the old ones) are perfectly fine for regular star chart play and by the time the player is considering using arch guns for regular gameplay they should be on-track to getting some decent heavy weapon varieties.

The only reasonable suggestion in this whole thread is making arch guns have a damage bonus against overguard/eximus. This is a great idea and would give arch guns the edge they need to have a viable place in the rotation of weaponry.

[Sevenus.]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

The 'point' is ridiculous. This is an apples to oranges comparison. The high-end arch guns are perfectly fine the way they are and the lower end arch-guns are certainly not in need of buffs. Just like we don't need buffs to the lower rank primary and secondary weapons to bring them in line with the high end weapons in their respective class. 

We will, inevitably, get more powerful arch guns. That's the nature of power-progression, and along the way we'll also see random spatterings of mods that will, in effect, buff up the weaker arch guns.

Every player gets the Mausulon through natural progression and that's really all anyone needs. The other arch guns (the old ones) are perfectly fine for regular star chart play and by the time the player is considering using arch guns for regular gameplay they should be on-track to getting some decent heavy weapon varieties.

The only reasonable suggestion in this whole thread is making arch guns have a damage bonus against overguard/eximus. This is a great idea and would give arch guns the edge they need to have a viable place in the rotation of wweaponry

 

 

4 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Curious that mod reworks aren't included. Dual Rounds is just 60% multishot (even Split Chamber gives 90%). Rubedo-Lined Barrel gives 100% damage (Serration is 150%). Parallax Scope and Hollowed Bullets is 100% CC and 80% CD (Point Strike is 150%, Vital Sense is 120%). The mods we have are weaker than rifle ones, and rifles tend to be on the weaker side modding-wise, with special mods like Hunter Munitions often making up for it.

Colour me crazy but I think it'd go a ways if the mods we have got a bit of a touch-up, at least to match rifle mods if not get bumped up to pistol ones.

This is a fine suggestion too in my opinion, this kind of similar to how DE increased the value of mods to add veriety and reason to use over normal ones (viral acceleration increases more crit that point strike but at the cost of reducing fire rate).

Set mods that encouporate mech or warframe use of archguns would be good too, to increase the amount of mods and options you can have for archguns.

I love archguns and i think it will be great to have them have an exilus and arcane slots too.

Also ive added a few things to the thread which feel more of an issue fix than  buff like reducing cooldown because now the cooldown is based on how much ammo you have left - the lower ammo % the bigger the cooldown and make it a flat cooldown regardless of ammo status, other than using dispensary there is no way to recover archgun ammo in normal missions while in space the ammo is rechargeable.

Another issue i encountered that someone in the forum suggested was giving an immunity when pulling out the archgun, as you are volnurable to damage during the animation and cant move or do anything while so.

 

[Leqesai]

19 minutes ago, Sevenus. said:

Another issue i encountered that someone in the forum suggested was giving an immunity when pulling out the archgun, as you are volnurable to damage during the animation and cant move or do anything while so.

I addressed this in that thread where the guy was complaining about dying while pulling the arch gun. There should not be an invuln period when pulling an arch gun out... You should just not pull it out in a situation where you're getting bombarded by enemy fire. I know warframe isn't very tactical but come on... You don't rush into a horde of enemies without having something at the ready to defend yourself... lol...

[Sevenus.]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I addressed this in that thread where the guy was complaining about dying while pulling the arch gun. There should not be an invuln period when pulling an arch gun out... You should just not pull it out in a situation where you're getting bombarded by enemy fire. I know warframe isn't very tactical but come on... You don't rush into a horde of enemies without having something at the ready to defend yourself... lol...

I have to agree with you on that mate lol.  to be honest ive added it to this thread on an impusle seeing that other players use archguns in normal mission.

[Drasiel]

10 hours ago, Sevenus. said:

4.      Change Archgun Gravimag Cooldown :

-        Same cooldown regardless of how much ammo you have left(currently more ammo = less cooldown)

How is this one an improvement? aside from the frustratingly long animation I am quite happy busting out an archgun for a few rounds then putting it away and getting to use it again faster.

[Sevenus.]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

How is this one an improvement? aside from the frustratingly long animation I am quite happy busting out an archgun for a few rounds then putting it away and getting to use it again faster.

The cooldown goes up to minutes depends on how much ammo you use, i think it could have like 20-30 cooldown regardless instead.

 

Then again i dont actually mind it because i specifically use dispensary to refill archgun ammo before i swap out to negate the cooldown, and thats pretty much the only way to fill ammo for archguns. The other way is archgun corpus enemies on the profit taker.

 

Perhaps make eximus units drop mutated ammo drops?

Or add an exilus mod that mutates ammo dropped into archgun ammo?(ammo mutation)

 

*Edit : this actually sounds like a better idea. Will edit the tread.