How do we still not have an actual spear/ spear and shield weapon type in game ?

[Sonicbullitt]

So this is what I feared with Styanax's release, they went out of their way to create an entire Warframe based around spear and shield, yet didn't bother to create a spear melee archetype or even give the frame centered around it, it's own exalted weapon, even if it was in the style of Garuda's claws. I don't mean just a gimmick gun you can throw occasionally, such as the spear guns. I'm shocked after all this time we still don't have a spear in game, a polearm with thrust attacks and the occasional slashes, not to be confused with a glaive, which is only slashes. We already have a weapon of a similar type in game, the rapier yet no spear, it's disappointing especially with all the Styanax marketing his spear and shield, which he basically doesn't actually have in game, it's a little misleading imo.

Edit: I wasn't sure where to put this, so if mods feel this in the wrong place please feel free to move it.

[OniDax]

Animation team doesn't want to take the time to create new stances is my guess. Same reason they're unwilling to improve the old gameplay animations in the game.

[Sonicbullitt]

3 hours ago, OniDax said:

Animation team doesn't want to take the time to create new stances is my guess. Same reason they're unwilling to improve the old gameplay animations in the game.

So just laziness then ? Isn't that what the animation team is there for, to animate things in the game ? They could very easily repurpose rapier animations, which sucks tbh, I rather a new stance for a new weapon type, but if thats all I could get, I would take it. It just seems so silly to me to create an entire new frame from the ground up, with the perfect thematic premise to introduce a new melee type into the game, only to squander that chance completely. I apologize for ranting, but damn does this frustrate me, this is an archetype that doesn't exist in the game and I was so excited to possibly see it's introduction as I have been waiting for spears to get introduced into the game for years now, had a feeling they were gonna go the cringe and gimmicky speargun way out and they did. Instead of what we got in the trailers, we got a lame "bow spear thing."

[OniDax]

On 2022-09-08 at 9:51 AM, Sonicbullitt said:

So just laziness then ? Isn't that what the animation team is there for, to animate things in the game ? They could very easily repurpose rapier animations, which sucks tbh, I rather a new stance for a new weapon type, but if thats all I could get, I would take it. It just seems so silly to me to create an entire new frame from the ground up, with the perfect thematic premise to introduce a new melee type into the game, only to squander that chance completely. I apologize for ranting, but damn does this frustrate me, this is an archetype that doesn't exist in the game and I was so excited to possibly see it's introduction as I have been waiting for spears to get introduced into the game for years now, had a feeling they were gonna go the cringe and gimmicky speargun way out and they did. Instead of what we got in the trailers, we got a lame "bow spear thing."

Again, it's my guess, but I look at how so many melee weapons only have one stance. I look at how long it took them to fix an animation issue with the Ordis sentinel skin. I look at how they only have one weapon in certain melee classes, and how long they allow animations to remain broken. I look at how long it takes them to add new weapon classes and at the general quality of the current animations in the game. I look at how they were going to do swords and pistols and never did them. I look at how they were going to do modular archwings, which would've required new animations, yet that never happened.

But, imo, they need to hire more talented animators because animations are the weakest aspect of Warframe imo. They're so far below industry standards and most animations in the game look bad, imo, like a game from 20 years ago. If they hire more skilled animators, I think the game could see new types of weapons, like a spear and shield weapon. In my opinion, with the diverse gameplay Digital Extremes has attempted to offer, Warframe should have the best animations in the entire industry, but that won't happen with this current animation team. The team needs to be expanded and it needs to push towards putting out the best quality animations it can produce.

[(XBOX)deaddealer95]

I said the same thing. Kinda annoyed that this was a perfect opportunity for them to introduce another melee shield type archetype, but they completely flopped on the opportunity. Really sad and Annoyed and is definitely misleading.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, Sonicbullitt said:

So just laziness then ?

I hoped for spears too, and still do.  However, assuming we don't have them because DE developers are lazy rather than a thousand other things being prioritized instead is an asinine take.

[LegacyXI]

So you are telling me they literally show off this warframe on the front page of their website and and on steam wielding a spear/shield combo and it doesn't actually have a spear/shield weapon?

[Mediloric]

3 minutes ago, LegacyXI said:

So you are telling me they literally show off this warframe on the front page of their website and and on steam wielding a spear/shield combo and it doesn't actually have a spear/shield weapon?

But he does? I mean technically. Same could be said for Khora, she has her whip in shots but you actually "use" said whip. It's a bit crappy I'll admit but he does HAVE them.  

[Nick4]

Honestly, All the advertisements features styanax showed him freely using or hold his spear and shield. Then we saw his abilities during the dev stream stream and I was like ok no exalted when but surely were getting it as a new weapon type. Then yesterday it was released and nothing. Just a ghost of what could have been locked behind animation sets. 

Like  theyre there but they’re  not.

Im still leaving out hope though that we can get it as a blueprint from khal when we get his missions going 

[Nick4]

32 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

But he does? I mean technically. Same could be said for Khora, she has her whip in shots but you actually "use" said whip. It's a bit crappy I'll admit but he does HAVE them.  

Khora has her cat she can get away with it. Shes more of a lion tamer anyways.

[(XBOX)HeavyMetal Mike]

10 minutes ago, Nick4 said:

Im still leaving out hope though that we can get it as a blueprint from khal when we get his missions going 

okay, but we already have his spear as a speargun, which is gonna be in the new kahl zone, so if they make a new shield/spear combo melee weapon, it wont be his anymore since his spear is actually just a gun, which he pulls out his shield in the idle animation for spearguns.

[Nick4]

 

28 minutes ago, (XBOX)HeavyMetal Mike said:

okay, but we already have his spear as a speargun, which is gonna be in the new kahl zone, so if they make a new shield/spear combo melee weapon, it wont be his anymore since his spear is actually just a gun, which he pulls out his shield in the idle animation for spearguns.

have you used his new spear gun? His shield doesn't come with it. Plus older frames came with more then one signature weapon. Take octavia for example she had two.  

plus so far from what i've seen he doesn't pullout his speargun from any shield. in the idle he just bangs the speargun on it. 

Also what do u mean by ”it wont be his anymore since his spear is actually just a gun”

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

After the lukewarm reception of the Assault Saw and Heavy Scythe which both have awful stances, why would you want them to add another one which will undoubtedly be just as mediocre? 

[(XBOX)HeavyMetal Mike]

3 minutes ago, Nick4 said:

have you used his new spear gun? His shield doesn't come with it.

I said "his spear is actually just a gun, which he pulls out his shield in the idle animation for spearguns." saying that the shield is used with the spear, only in the idle animation, I never said that he has his shield out all the time with the spearguns.
 

Quote

plus so far from what i've seen he doesn't pullout his speargun from any shield. in the idle he just bangs the speargun on it. 

Again, read up, I said he pulls his shield out for spearguns, not the other way around since there's only sword and shields.

 

Quote

Also what do u mean by ”it wont be his anymore since his spear is actually just a gun”

I mean that he already technically has 2 forms of spears, his ability spears and his gun spears, and he already has the shield as part of his abilities, adding a spear/shield combo as a melee weapon they'd have to go make new assets since they cant just use the already existing assets since they're tied to the frame's abilities.

[(XBOX)ConfusingEel30]

The least they could've done it give him his shield when he's ads with a spear gun, they wouldn't even have to do anything extra just slap the shield on his arm and give him damage block in an angle in front of him.

[(XBOX)ConfusingEel30]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

After the lukewarm reception of the Assault Saw and Heavy Scythe which both have awful stances, why would you want them to add another one which will undoubtedly be just as mediocre? 

They made them mediocre though, that's not our fault.

[Nick4]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)HeavyMetal Mike said:

Again, read up, I said he pulls his shield out for spearguns, not the other way around since there's only sword and shields. 

But he doesnt only pull his shield out for spearguns. He pulls it out for any weapon but spearguns do get a different animation. In his Agile animation he instead pulls out his spear. which looks nice when you have a sword/shield equipped. 

also they don’t need to use the same visual assets but can you really see the spear and shield (as they are in the idles) when u use the abilities. They could release It as his signature weapon. So when styanax is welding it it goes for midt tier to high tier. or high tier to even better.  if not they could make it like garuda. 

They could look at the animations from sword/shield weapons and rapier for reference and build a prototype for that. It be stabbing animation with occasional slash attacks. good range too. It could also have blast damage (like the spear gun) if the range is good or tie it to a guard attack. With the shield blocking the knockback. 

[ChaoticEdge]

14 hours ago, Sonicbullitt said:

So just laziness then ? Isn't that what the animation team is there for, to animate things in the game ? They could very easily repurpose rapier animations, which sucks tbh, I rather a new stance for a new weapon type, but if thats all I could get, I would take it. It just seems so silly to me to create an entire new frame from the ground up, with the perfect thematic premise to introduce a new melee type into the game, only to squander that chance completely. I apologize for ranting, but damn does this frustrate me, this is an archetype that doesn't exist in the game and I was so excited to possibly see it's introduction as I have been waiting for spears to get introduced into the game for years now, had a feeling they were gonna go the cringe and gimmicky speargun way out and they did. Instead of what we got in the trailers, we got a lame "bow spear thing."

I agreed, it is very cringey at the time being, I trying figure out why the dev is being such of "unknownlegedable" about the action they are taking but they been doing this ever sense we got angry about few things back then, for now I am pretty sure they got to the point they are being Doctor Cring.  As I walk out the door right now

[Sonicbullitt]

7 hours ago, Mediloric said:

But he does? I mean technically. Same could be said for Khora, she has her whip in shots but you actually "use" said whip. It's a bit crappy I'll admit but he does HAVE them.  

He does not, don't mislead. He has a spear gun which is more javelin than spear and some animations where he throws it, alongside some idles and that's it. He does not have an actual spear nor a shield really, the shield is is only used mechanically in one ability and visually in a few others. His abilities are decent, but as a shield and spear warrior he doesn't fit thematically whatsoever, he is not a "hoplite," he's just a javelin thrower. They could've done something as simple as give him he equivalent of Garuda's claws, a spear and shield when he has no melee weapon equipped. That however is not what we got and what we got instead is false marketing, even if it's not major, I still see it that way.

[DrivaMain]

6 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

After the lukewarm reception of the Assault Saw and Heavy Scythe which both have awful stances, why would you want them to add another one which will undoubtedly be just as mediocre? 

If the stance doesn't have free movement, absurd multipliers, guaranteed slash, spinning animations to have that lucrative "AoE Experience", Players will just crap on it and don't even bother to touch it.

[Mediloric]

21 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

He does not, don't mislead. 

Have... have you actually seen the promotional images for Styanax? He has his SPEAR and SHIELD. These appear much like Khora's Whip, as usable in abilities and animations, to call it not there is simply incorrect.

Granted it's not USEABLE as a true weapon which is a total shame I agree, I think they should have done an exalted or as you said, like they handled Gaurda's claws, that would have been ideal but that is simply not the case at this moment. This COULD change in the future.

35 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

but as a shield and spear warrior he doesn't fit thematically whatsoever, he is not a "hoplite," he's just a javelin thrower.

I mean he fits the whole theme...? Have you looked up Hoplite? It's quite a interesting read if you are into history! All I've found so far on a quick search does suggest he's for that theme and IMO, does it well. Besides: it's not uncommon for DE to bend themes a bit for purpose. 

37 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

They could've done something as simple as give him he equivalent of Garuda's claws, a spear and shield when he has no melee weapon equipped.

Never assume anything is "simple" when it comes to development. What you think is simple is asking for quite a lot on a possibly short timeframe (eyy). 

What you are asking for is: (but not limited to) 

1. Full animations contained in a stance 
2. Soundwork 
3. Balancing and stats 
4. A new weapon class and all the work that takes

Sure they did this for Garuda in a way, but they was an already established weapon type, what you want for the moment is not simple at all. 

40 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

That however is not what we got and what we got instead is false marketing, even if it's not major, I still see it that way.

You think so? I'd think it's safer to say you assumed you were getting it as a weapon. You have nothing set in stone about that realistically. Trailers are always subject to change to the end product, this is nothing new and it is for sure not new in warframe.

But in this case... they and I stress the word.. TECHNICALLY... delivered on it. It was just wasn't in the way you wanted it. If anyone is at fault, it's you and assuming what it would be.   

I agree with you though, this should be a new weapon type, I think it'd fit wonderfully in Warframe. 

[TARINunit9]

On 2022-09-07 at 9:30 PM, Sonicbullitt said:

yet didn't bother to create a spear melee archetype 

The Sydon and Vaykor Sydon are spears

Now, spear plus shield would have been a cool exalted melee. But just fact-checking your post, there are spears in the game already

[OniDax]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

The Sydon and Vaykor Sydon are spears

Now, spear plus shield would have been a cool exalted melee. But just fact-checking your post, there are spears in the game already

The Sydon and Vaykor Sydon are polearms, not spears. But just fact-checking your post, there are no spears in the game because there is no spear class in the game.

[Reitrix]

All the really needed to do was make a Thrust based Sword and Shield Stance and then release a spear skin for the weapon type. 

Also, would it have killed DE to make his Shield appear and stay out while Rally Point is active?

Would have been a really good visual representation of it being active instead of only a sound prompt that I can barely hear anyway because my ears don't work all that well. 

Would be an awesome visual combo when he's using the Spearguns too. 

[Sonicbullitt]

6 hours ago, Mediloric said:

Have... have you actually seen the promotional images for Styanax? He has his SPEAR and SHIELD. These appear much like Khora's Whip, as usable in abilities and animations, to call it not there is simply incorrect.

Granted it's not USEABLE as a true weapon which is a total shame I agree, I think they should have done an exalted or as you said, like they handled Gaurda's claws, that would have been ideal but that is simply not the case at this moment. This COULD change in the future.

I mean he fits the whole theme...? Have you looked up Hoplite? It's quite a interesting read if you are into history! All I've found so far on a quick search does suggest he's for that theme and IMO, does it well. Besides: it's not uncommon for DE to bend themes a bit for purpose. 

Never assume anything is "simple" when it comes to development. What you think is simple is asking for quite a lot on a possibly short timeframe (eyy). 

What you are asking for is: (but not limited to) 

1. Full animations contained in a stance 
2. Soundwork 
3. Balancing and stats 
4. A new weapon class and all the work that takes

Sure they did this for Garuda in a way, but they was an already established weapon type, what you want for the moment is not simple at all. 

You think so? I'd think it's safer to say you assumed you were getting it as a weapon. You have nothing set in stone about that realistically. Trailers are always subject to change to the end product, this is nothing new and it is for sure not new in warframe.

But in this case... they and I stress the word.. TECHNICALLY... delivered on it. It was just wasn't in the way you wanted it. If anyone is at fault, it's you and assuming what it would be.   

I agree with you though, this should be a new weapon type, I think it'd fit wonderfully in Warframe. 

But do we have that in game ? No, that spear and shield is just for show, as I said misleading. He LOOKS like a hoplite, he doesn't fight or function like a hoplite, so no he isn't a hoplite, but a Javelin thrower. If you are not aware the spear has many more uses than just being thrown, unlike a javelin which is just designed to be thrown. It is a thrusting weapon and slashing weapon too with a long enough blade, think the current pole arms we already have in game but with more thrusting attacks. If the spear gun functioned more like a gun blade I'd have less issue with it. 

I understand it takes a lot of work, I know this, but if you are going to be making other assets from scratch, you should give 101%, not half ass it. I understand, this is a big patch, but they could've easily pushed back the frame till animations and other assets were ready and even used it for another content update, to tide players over. This patch was already massive, people wouldn't have minded if Styanax came out a little later. 

Don't create something you cannot deliver on, if they marketed him honestly they would've done it with his spear gun, instead we got anime and other material where he functions nothing like that in game. All of his promotional material, even the loading screen has him with his spear, not "Spear gun." DE knows that isn't as cool as an actual spear, thats why they didn't do that. DE didn't "bend" a theme or put a unique spin on it, they just half assed it. I think you should re use assets where you can, to reduce workload of course, but some things deserve to have brand new assets designed for them.

There are times where you just have to create new assets, this is one of those times. You knock out two birds with one stone, introduce a new weapon type and stance, with the perfect frame to market it for maximum impact. Which not only can you use for your new warframe, but for new melee weapons in the same vein. You put in the initial extra work and it repays that investment later, just like every other stance introduced into the game.