About mercy kills and the upcoming changes to Eximus units.

[Traumtulpe]

The Devstream reminded me that mercy kills exist in this game. So apparently you are going to double Eximus units health, and their mercy threshold, in order to force us to interact with that badly implemented, useless mechanic. I'm going to judge that part when I see it, but what caught my attention was that Rebecca said this would make the Parazon mod "Hard Reset" easier to use...

Nobody uses that mod, ever. It doesn't work. You don't mercy kill 3 Eximus in 40 seconds, ever. Not ever. Just so we are on the same page, okay? Anyhow that still isn't the issue I am making this thread about:

You also said Eximus units would have a 60 second cooldown between spawns. And (if solo) no more than 2 Eximus can spawn at any given time (I think that restriction is still in place). And Hard reset needs 3 Eximus kills in 40 seconds.

I'll let you do the math. Hint: It doesn't effing work! At all! Not even in theory!

[Pakaku]

I would mercy-kill way more if the animation just didn't happen. It wastes so much time and is not impressive. Just let me shank them once and get it over with, like a standard attack swing.

[Tyreaus]

If DE wants people to use mercy kills, keep mercy-able enemies in a downed state like progenitors and have them count toward mission completions on down. Open window to mercy kill, if the player chooses not to fast-track (or deals too much damage to do so), and otherwise optional.

It's not like the Parazon system and mercy kills aren't worth doing. Heck, I'd probably run Hard Reset with squishier companions and keep a set of mercy-able enemies in the downed state as long as possible to revive that companion if needed. The problem is that the system is too bloody finnicky to do that.

A boost in mercy speed probably wouldn't hurt. No, not using a mod to do that. We're (practically or otherwise) invincible during it anyway, so what does it matter if it's a touch faster? Besides, the animations looked and felt better back when attack speed mods worked on finishers. Feels too floaty at current.

[taiiat]

i wouldn't hate doing special Finishers if they didn't interrupt the entire flow of the game.

you can't even just speed up the Animation to address that either. having an Animation at all breaks the entire flow of the game.
so People don't use it.

 

if you force me to use it, i'll just play the game less. :)

[Tiltskillet]

I've been wanting eximus to have more regular health anyway.  Even when they took off some overguard and moved it over to health it still left eximus feeling to me too much like OG was their health bar. 

48 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

but what caught my attention was that Rebecca said this would make the Parazon mod "Hard Reset" easier to use...

Nobody uses that mod, ever. It doesn't work. You don't mercy kill 3 Eximus in 40 seconds, ever. Not ever. Just so we are on the same page, okay? Anyhow that still isn't the issue I am making this thread about:

You also said Eximus units would have a 60 second cooldown between spawns. And (if solo) no more than 2 Eximus can spawn at any given time (I think that restriction is still in place). And Hard reset needs 3 Eximus kills in 40 seconds.

It doesn't -require- eximus kills does it?  I know the challenges involved in getting regular units into a mercy state, especially in a squad, but I do see it happen.

Another 20 seconds on that condition would make a lot of sense though.

 

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It doesn't -require- eximus kills does it?  I know the challenges involved in getting regular units into a mercy state, especially in a squad, but I do see it happen.

Well yeah, but you cannot mercy most enemies types unless they are Eximus. And I usually oneshot enemies. And even if I didn't oneshot them, they die on the fist tick of the slash proc. And don't even think of mercying anything in a group, lol.

[sitfesz]

A finisher move should be a reward for making a heavy target vulnerable and being close to it, so a melee finisher kill would kill the target faster than guns, without ammo, etc.

Meanwhile in warframe the opening hp is so low, the animation is so long it just doesn't worth it. Even with high impact proc it's questionable, because of the silly long animation everytime from a random angle.

Thralls still have the bug of finishing them 2 seconds later 30 meters away with a simple parazon hack animation.

1. Fix finisher bugs 2. Improve finisher playability 3. Maybe then, if point 1 and 2 is done, start to dig it up again to improve it even more 4. THEN start to integrate it into the gameplay more

[(PSN)manicmartz61]

I mercy kill. Dosn't interupt my game play. I find it a handy mechanic TBH.

[Tsukinoki]

8 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It doesn't -require- eximus kills does it?  I know the challenges involved in getting regular units into a mercy state, especially in a squad, but I do see it happen.

And please tell me, how often does the option to mercy kill an enemy that isn't an eximus unit actually pop-up?
AND even beyond that how many enemies last longer than a quarter second with whatever status proc is on them when they are open for mercy kills?

The simple fact is that outside of eximus units it's nigh impossible to actually use the mercy finisher system.  Even on steel path.
The healthgate that triggers the mercy kill is way too low to actually use with any efficiency....and even if you put a ton of impact in your attacks to raise that it doesn't raise it anywhere near fast enough that you can actually kill the enemy before a tick of poison/burn/slash just kills them as you get close enough to actually do the mercy kill.

 

In actual use of that mod it might as well require eximus units, because no other unit has even a faint hope of surviving down low enough that the mercy kill triggers and they don't immediately die.
And even then eximus units have a very hard time surviving at that point as well.

And when you throw in other group members good luck with that.

 

7 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Meanwhile in warframe the opening hp is so low

IF the mercy kill threashold was around 50% of their HP it might be somewhat usable as you would actually have time to react to it before they just instantly die....but that horribly long animation that you can't really speed up and is always at the absolute worst camera angles would still make it not worth it most of the time.

But hey, if it was half their HP by default for eximus units then you might actually see people use mercy kills on steel path.

[Famecans]

I have a feeling that the parazon system was designed to work at long distances because that is basically a whip of connection but making an enemy active for mercy only works at close range because you need to calculate the damage interval before killing him. Parazon is amazing but for me this still in beta because it's possible to confuse with the old finisher system and all the mess of melee v2.9 which is not yet v3.0

I think parazon mods should give us consistent non-time related buffs for example:
ExempleA: After 1 mercy triggers 70% efficiency for current magazine.
ExempleB: After 1 mercy 50% skill strength for the next skill.
ExempleC: After 1 mercy opens 30 lockers by touching them.
ExempleD: After 2 mercy restarts sentinel and primed regen.

all skills charged and without timers because it is very difficult to trigger and execute a mercy.

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And please tell me, how often does the option to mercy kill an enemy that isn't an eximus unit actually pop-up?
AND even beyond that how many enemies last longer than a quarter second with whatever status proc is on them when they are open for mercy kills?

Definitely not a lot.  :P    Thus "I know the challenges involved in getting regular units into a mercy state."

But I try not to assume my current experience is universal either.  There are dozens of mods and mechanics that seem pointless to me now, that I used at one time or hear about other people using. 

5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

IF the mercy kill threashold was around 50% of their HP it might be somewhat usable

They're raising it to 80%, although it sounds like that's just for eximus.