The New War just made me uninstall after 7 years playing (MR30)

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

You believe it's bad design because it makes someone leave their comfort zone?

I think if a "mini-game" is placed directly on the main story path to completion of the game, the mini-game is a bad design decision.

Mini-games are fine add-ons, things to diversify the experience, but generally, they're less polished games, poor controls, poor user interfaces, and are drastically different from the core game - the reason people are playing this game instead of other games...

EVERY game that has done this, has irritated me. I nearly quit the Kingdom Hearts game that had the icecream music hit-button-on-beat mini-game...

 

In WARFRAME, putting a mini-game like this quest as a progression stopper AND lock them in until complete, when the core game is much less difficult when a player is using their chosen loadout, makes it a bad design choice. Because Warframe is F2P, they bank on the masses playing the game and making small purchases over time... not a dedicated hardcore group that whales on the game. They don't make their money up front on sales, and it DOES matter if people keep playing. Off-line single player games can have more "challenge" put into the game and "lock people out" of completing the game... because they already got their money on the sale of the game...

[Packetdancer]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

You believe it's bad design because it makes someone leave their comfort zone?

I'm not the person you were posing the question to, and I did enjoy the New War, but...

I personally don't think it's questionable design because it made someone leave their comfort zone; I think it's questionable design because it doesn't give them any way back to said comfort zone.

In terms of narrative, the New War blocking all other activity for the duration makes perfect sense, sure. No question. But having a single mission that blocks you from doing literally anything else in the game until you complete it, with no way to abort/leave/whatever -- and more specifically, doing so in a multiplayer, live-service game -- is not a choice I think I personally would've made, design-wise. Especially when the content is different than the established 'norm' for the game.

As an example, when Final Fantasy XIV's most recent expansion, Endwalker, came out, there was a mission as part of the main scenario called "In from the Cold" which proved very divisive. Without giving any spoilers, I'll just say that the quest basically took away all the tools you're used to having throughout the rest of the game. I actually liked the quest -- it achieved its goal of making you feel helpless and vulnerable in a way the Warrior of Light has not in a very long time -- but it was an extremely heated topic at launch; a lot of people did not feel comfortable with the situation they were put in and had trouble with the quest, thus finding their progression through the story blocked. (Eventually, SQEX tuned the quest to make it slightly more forgiving for folks who were having an issue with it.)

And that quest only blocked your main story progression; folks who had trouble could still go "well screw this, I'll tackle it later" and bounce from it to go run roulettes or alliance raids or whatever other content you wanted with your friends. If starting "In from the Cold" had locked you out of the entire rest of the game until you completed it, I cannot imagine the levels of fury some folks would've expressed on the official forums.

I don't think the New War was a mistake, no. But I do think it might've been a mistake not to give players an "Abort, try again later" button.

[(PSN)Unstar]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Many games do this though. A lot of the newest Resident Evil games make you take control of a different character for a while. Is that also bad design?

I don't think this is innately bad design, but it can be.  The devil is in the details.

One example that springs to mind is the Spider-Man game from a few years back; it had a stealth section where you played as Mary Jane.  At least from what I've heard, most people didn't like this section.  They grumbled about it.  But in the end if I recall it was like 20 minutes and it wasn't too hard, so people were able to get past it and get back to the Spider-Man gameplay they actually enjoyed.

There's a reasonable (though subjective) argument to make that the Mary Jane section was the result of poor design decisions.  But it also could have been worse!  It could have taken hours rather than minutes.  It could have been more difficult, slowing progression, or potentially even proving to be an obstacle that less-skilled or less-able players couldn't overcome.

Warframe is a game that offers players the ability to thoroughly customize the way they play the game.  Some players lean into their play-style due to personal preference, but others do it because they lack the physical ability or the skill.  As I age, my arthritis continues to get worse.  Thankfully, Warframe offers me a lot of solutions that let me keep playing in spite of that.  It often hurts to aim precisely, but AoE weapons and melee let me get around that.  It can hurt to always keep moving and evading, but tanky Warframes can help me survive without doing that  There are a great many people who rely on Warframe's customization not just for the fun it provides, but for the accessibility it provides: that it lets them play and succeed in a game they might otherwise not be able to.

When I originally played The New War, I found it overall to be very enjoyable.  But even though it's only been a few years, I imagine I would have a much more difficult and painful time fighting the Archons now due to the worsening of my arthritis.  The combination of a "non-tank, bow-only" play-style against bosses that can heal is a tough one for some people.  I have a friend who lacks my decades-worth of gaming experience, and they won't even start The New War because they've got no idea if they'll be able to overcome the challenges it offers.  Normally it wouldn't hurt to just try, but in this case discovering the answer is "no" means losing the ability to play Warframe, and to them it's understandably not worth that risk.

In short, while I personally overall enjoyed The New War and like that DE is willing to experiment with new things...

• I don't think The New War does enough to support players who are less able
• I also think even for those who are able, being frustrated about a game experience you dislike is valid.

 

Also, mandatory egg video ;)

Edited July 14, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar

[Packetdancer]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Normally it wouldn't hurt to just try, but in this case discovering the answer is "no" means losing the ability to play Warframe, and to them it's understandably not worth that risk.

This sentence right here is a much more succinct version of what I was trying to say.

I've long had a soapbox I'll stand on and shout that games should try to avoid destructive, unrecoverable error states. (I mean, software in general should try to avoid destructive, unrecoverable error states, but...)

Imagine an MMO where it goes "You just did this very hard fight... but your inventory was full, so all the rewards were droppd into the digital void, never to be seen again! TOO BAD!" That's an example of what i mean; it's destructive (the player loses the thing they were trying to get), and it's unrecoverable (there's no way to undo the error).

But it's one you can guard against! You're about to be awarded an item, but the inventory is full? Toss up a dialog box saying "Your inventory is full; you cannot be awarded <list of items>. Clear up <#> inventory slots and click 'Retry' to re-deliver the items, or click 'Discard' to dispose of them." Now the error is not unrecoverable any longer; your inventory was full, yes, but you have a way to address the issue.

The New War turns a quest into a destructive, unrecoverable error state... where the thing lost by the "destructive" part is your ability to play the game at all. It's no wonder that some players feel trepidation about embarking on that quest... or that those who thought they were up to it and jumped in, then hit a wall, feel frustrated: they've lost access to the entire rest of the game.

Having an "abort" button would make it at least recoverable, if nothing else.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Packetdancer

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

2 minutes ago, Packetdancer said:

Having an "abort" button would make it at least recoverable, if nothing else.

Unfortunately DE's "Abort Button" is the equivalent of Git Gud or never play Warframe again!  What company would actively limit the amount of money they can make from their customers? From a business standpoint alone what corporate executive would agree with ANY RESTRICTIONS that might curtail future profits of a corporate conglomerate?  The corporate big-wigs at Tencent were totally on-board with the genius game design that limits their potential sales bonuses?  I can almost see that Tencent Board meeting written into a script spanning several episodes of The Office. 

It's business strategies like the New War that will NOT make Ten-Cents into Ten-Dollars!

Thank you very much, I'm here all week.  Don't forget to tip your Waitress!

[Zakalwe]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Many games do this though. A lot of the newest Resident Evil games make you take control of a different character for a while. Is that also bad design?

It's all about execution.

The concept was great, imo.

[(XBOX)Synderion13]

On 2022-12-03 at 1:25 AM, ArxDurusMaximus said:

YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.

Alright..I get it but non-warframe story quests have been a thing since 2016. 3 years after the games release and we just passed 10 (I know you mentioned people have been complaining since war within) but honestly it kinda feels disingenuous to say "it's not Warframe" when it's been a mechanic in the game for 70% of the game's existence at this point. Don't get me wrong you have every right not to like new war and the whole being a drifter thing. I have a few things I didn't like about new war myself...hell given how long it is who doesn't lol. 

[CephalonCarnage]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)Synderion13 said:

Alright..I get it but non-warframe story quests have been a thing since 2016. 3 years after the games release and we just passed 10 (I know you mentioned people have been complaining since war within) but honestly it kinda feels disingenuous to say "it's not Warframe" when it's been a mechanic in the game for 70% of the game's existence at this point. Don't get me wrong you have every right not to like new war and the whole being a drifter thing. I have a few things I didn't like about new war myself...hell given how long it is who doesn't lol. 

And those non-warframe story quests were trivially easy. Remember The Sacrifice? Go and zap Umbra with your operator. You fail to understand the vague instructions, aim, have the mote amp, whatever... and he kills you. You restart and continue with his health lower. You always kill him, there is no real skill involved because the quest is about the introduction of this warframe you have to zap to subdue.

Now look at TNW bosses. hard, challenging, one with a stupidly vague instruction to get past their auto-heal (as if going invisible will get you past his audial barrier? No make sense, no wonder so many had a hard time with the owl that they didn't with the wolf) plus a charge-trigger bow (that I will still say was the primary problem in the entire quest, getting that charge trigger right is a right pain! DE should absolutely given the choice of the bow or a rifle. I'd have chosen the rifle every time)

No other story quest has done this, ever. They are all easy to complete. The story is what matters to those quests, not the player skill or challenging gameplay. such gameplay was always dumbed down in the quest to demonstrate it, and then you find the some mechanics in the game later that is harder. This is the way all quests worked, until someone forgot what they were doing and made the quest some solo gameplay instead.

In a past DE quest, the archons would be shown, you'd kill them easily enough in the quest and then you'd fight them in game later as warframes and they would be the challenging then. Lke kuva guardians, they were easy in the controlled environment of the quest to show you the mechanic. When they appear in gameplay they were a lot more trouble (at the level you were back then, of course)

As it was, DE forgot a lot about what a quest is. It went on way too long, was filled with sections designed solely to force sales, and was generally boring. 80% of that quest should have been cut and it would have been fine. Cut the archon fights to one impossible-to-lose fight, cut the stealth fortuna section, cut the railjack and necramech sections. Pretty much keep the bits that cause the Zariman flashbacks and it would have been much better.

This quest is a bellweather for something at DE that has changed for the worse. whether its the "more plat sales" push, or the inability totell the story well, or the introduction of Drifter and a move away from the traditional warframe play. I don't know, possibly all of the above, but they lost the plot here.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2022-12-03 at 12:25 AM, ArxDurusMaximus said:

I was on a hiatus from playing for a little while (after I hit MR30 and maxed out everything available for like the 4th time), and just came back last month.  Started cleaning up the updated Railjack stuff, picking up the new Primes, hunting the new Sisters, etc.  I put off starting The New War because of the warning that it would take "several hours" and I wouldn't be able to access the regular game during that time.  It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.  But eventually all that new content hiding behind the quest called to me, so today I broke down and activated the quest.

I know some people like this.  I know because I've read their posts.  But even they admit that this is not Warframe.  The big hint is that YOU ARE NOT USING A WARFRAME.  This is some other game I'm being forced to play in order to get back to playing Warframe.  Okay, some of the previous quests have felt like that as well.  But they were all relatively short, and you could quit them at any time and go back to regular missions.  A few hours into The New War, I just don't want to do this anymore.  It's not fun.  Nothing about it is REMOTELY fun.  (And "a few hours" really should have been your first hint.  There's no excuse for taking us out of the real game this long.)

The movement, which is the best thing about Warframe, is atrocious.  For this game, it feels like playing a paraplegic.  We can't run properly, or jump, or slide, we can barely move.  The "stealth" sections were torturous, but thankfully you can just follow directions online, and the mechanics are fairly forgiving.  As for the rest, playing a regular human, with no Warframe, no choice of powers, not even a choice of weapons, is not only boring, but is frustrating and stupid.  But I pushed through, because I've been playing this game a long time and I really enjoy the actual game, if I could ever get back to it.

And then I got to these "boss fights."  And they are TERRIBLE.  And I don't want to play anymore.  If I could go back to the regular game, I would.  But life is too short to throw more hours into this unfun torture-machine they have turned their beautiful game into.  Seriously, DE.  I see posts of people complaining about this all the way back when The New War released.  How have you not fixed this?  How many players like me have quit because it's just too long and obnoxious and not fun?  I play video games to enjoy myself.  I'd love to get back to enjoying myself in Warframe.  If you eventually come up with an option to get out of this garbage, I'd gladly take it.  Until then, well, it's a damn shame.  I'll miss Warframe.

Get good.

[Grommile]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Get good.

Or, you know.

DE could learn a valuable lesson here, and not write long quests that lock you out of normal gameplay until they're finished.

Like, I'm not saying they shouldn't write quests that are harder than routine Warframe gameplay.

I'm just saying that if they want to write hard quests, they need to do so in a way that doesn't lock people out of using their accounts normally until the quest is complete.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Get good.

[Packetdancer]

14 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

...plus a charge-trigger bow (that I will still say was the primary problem in the entire quest, getting that charge trigger right is a right pain! DE should absolutely given the choice of the bow or a rifle. I'd have chosen the rifle every time)

I have to admit I almost thought Nataruk was too powerful; between quick shot/charged shot/perfect shot, you can do so much with it. It was such a good bow—and so ridiculously strong—that I used it as my primary weapon for way too long after the New War.

So "this bow is part of the problem with the quest" is honestly not a thing that's ever occurred to me.

But that highlights play-style difference as much as anything, I think. I love bows and will frequently use them as a primary weapon; I love my Paris Prime (with bonus Incarnon), I'm actually rather fond of Dread, I desperately want a Daikyu Prime someday. So Nataruk was like "here is the thing you already like, but even more versatile and on metaphorical steroids."

But I do have friends who loathe bows as a weapon, so I admit that on reflection I can certainly see why some folks would not have appreciated having that as the only real weapon option for part of the questline.

[CephalonCarnage]

7 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

I have to admit I almost thought Nataruk was too powerful; between quick shot/charged shot/perfect shot

IIRC in the quest (and I do not know if they changed this since I did the quest) there was no charged shot - it was perfect shot or nothing, if you didn't hit the sweet spot to get the perfect shot then you got a basic quickshot. I practiced that damn thing for ages because I understood it was going to be necessary to beat the archons, and still hate it. So I understood exactly what everyone complaining about beating the archons is talking about.

Its not play style of a charged trigger so much as that hair-trigger response. I hate charged triggers, but that mechanic is terrible.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

On 2023-07-14 at 2:44 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

They grumbled about it.  But in the end if I recall it was like 20 minutes and it wasn't too hard, so people were able to get past it and get back to the Spider-Man gameplay they actually enjoyed.

There's a reasonable (though subjective) argument to make that the Mary Jane section was the result of poor design decisions.  But it also could have been worse!  It could have taken hours rather than minutes.

No real skin in this topic, just wanted to come in as someone who played Spider-Man PS4 and comment; it did take a hour or so playing as Mary Jane on stealth section because it happened more than once with increasingly more and more annoying enemies. We even got the stealth section(s) with Miles Morales running away from Rhino. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

IIRC in the quest (and I do not know if they changed this since I did the quest) there was no charged shot - it was perfect shot or nothing, if you didn't hit the sweet spot to get the perfect shot then you got a basic quickshot. I practiced that damn thing for ages because I understood it was going to be necessary to beat the archons, and still hate it. So I understood exactly what everyone complaining about beating the archons is talking about.

Its not play style of a charged trigger so much as that hair-trigger response. I hate charged triggers, but that mechanic is terrible.

There always was a charged shot, the bow we have is the same as the one in the quest.

Perfect shots would speed up the fight but It's not necessary to beat it

[Clem...]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that you are an MR30 player.  You managed to get through all of the other content in the game but then you got challenged in the new war quest with a new set of mechanics and it was too hard? Or you didn't like being locked out of other content for the duration of the quest? 

I am only MR16 I finished the new war yesterday and it was an awesome quest, lore a bit confusing but interesting nonetheless.  I died many times but still got it done in like 4-5 hrs.  I mean fighting the Ropalyst solo was harder than the Archon fights in New War.  The boss fight with the corpus guy took me awhile because I couldnt get the timing right but eventually I figured it out and it was easy after that. 

How do you even get to MR30 without doing all the quests?  I been playing since Khora Prime was released on and off and feel like it would take me like another year to get close to MR30 unless I had the money to buy everything for plat. 

Anyways adversity can be good we are gamers, we solve problems, you can figure it out and do it.

Clem out.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

23 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Coincidentally that was my reaction to this thread.

On 2023-07-16 at 10:57 AM, Grommile said:

Or, you know.

DE could learn a valuable lesson here, and not write long quests that lock you out of normal gameplay until they're finished.

Like, I'm not saying they shouldn't write quests that are harder than routine Warframe gameplay.

I'm just saying that if they want to write hard quests, they need to do so in a way that doesn't lock people out of using their accounts normally until the quest is complete.

Lets suppose just for the sake of argument the quest totally sucks and isnt fun. Lets just say.

 

Okay. So get through it and never do it again. 

 

That makes a lot more sense to me than giving up and saying well gee i guess im just locked out of my account forever now. Its not that hard.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Its not that hard

For YOU maybe, but we are all not as awesome as you.   I would not qualify the New War Quest as extremely difficult in the overall scheme of difficult missions but the mechanics and the Health regeneration of the Archons were not what some players were anticipating when they agreed to the warning disclaimer.   For those that have physical impairments, it was at a minimum very taxing and debilitating to play a non-agile, non-Tenno powered character against a new enemy that could regenerate their health.  Even those that don't have a medical issue, the quest became more of a slog for some of us, as it felt like it was never going to end.  By the time I even got to the Archons, I was so over the New War Quest, and had no interest in any lore, character development, etc.  It was just too long in my opinion and it tarnished the whole experience when it became a chore to get through.  It does NOT matter how easy you think it was, as it was NOT the same experience for other players.  No one is saying to dumb it down, just let players that feel overwhelmed and stuck have a way out, so they won't lose the ability to enjoy Warframe and return to complete the New War when they feel ready, not because a button assumes they are ready, when some just are NOT! 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Grommile]

On 2023-07-17 at 10:00 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Lets suppose just for the sake of argument the quest totally sucks and isnt fun. Lets just say.

 

Okay. So get through it and never do it again. 

For the love of the wee man.

It's not just about fun.

It's about TNW being harder, in certain specific ways liable to cause trouble for people with various kinds of impairment, than not only approximately all of the content you have to complete to reach it, but also a fair chunk of the content that it unlocks.

(And even there I'm assuming every element of the quest to work well and be adequately communicated to the player.)

You can't even spend dollars or platinum to get out if it. If you can't handle two out of the three archons with the Drifter's toolset and an unmodded Nataruk, that's your Warframe account locked forever, because some game designer has too big an ego to accept that maybe, just maybe, a long quest chain with tasks more challenging than norm for the game might be something people want to take a break from.

[Zimzala]

On 2023-07-16 at 7:24 AM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Get good.

On 2023-07-17 at 2:00 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Okay. So get through it and never do it again. 

That makes a lot more sense to me than giving up and saying well gee i guess im just locked out of my account forever now. Its not that hard.

What a silly, testosterone filled take.

Your prose is based on Man-Up and Testosterone, with a big helping of Ableism.

I suggest you research concepts like Compassion and Understanding.

While DE in my book should put out whatever content they like, this particular content was deployed with very questionable tactics.

I have all but stopped playing the game literally because the attitude from DE on this matter is also based on Man-Up and Testosterone, with a big helping of Ableism, so you are aligned with the developer here, on what is a terrible implementation for a game of this type, IMO.

One day in the future when your physical and mental capabilities are not what they are today, you may understand, I hope one day you do.

This is a game to entertain people and while masochists exist, punishing your customer into interacting with your product or having to literally walk away from it is a terrible business tactic.

Where I work, we have a solid rule - Don't Punish the Client - pretty simple.

So, enjoy your abilities while they last, because one day you won't have them and you might just then, years from now perhaps, realize there is more to the world than Man-Up.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Zimzala
speeling

[Xrenosin]

Oh, and if the OP could complete this quest...
Quite possibly, we would have received another great thread with the headline "WHY DO YOU WHERE YOU JUST PRESS THE X BUTTON IS SO VERY DIFFICULT??? Are we in a soullike game????".

The main thing, of course, is to indicate that you received rank 30.
...and at the same time did not master the boss with the "roll + shot" mechanics.

[Packetdancer]

3 hours ago, Xrenosin said:

The main thing, of course, is to indicate that you received rank 30.
...and at the same time did not master the boss with the "roll + shot" mechanics.

I mean, mastery rank doesn't necessarily mean someone has mastered every aspect of the game. Just that you've leveled (and thus "mastered") a wide variety of gear. I'm LR1, approaching LR2, and I promise you there is gear I have "mastered" for the mastery rank that I cannot use to its full effectiveness. I can use a lot of it, sure, but... the Zylok, for instance, just feels clunky to me. If you give me a quest where I'm forced to use it, I'll muddle through, but it's not going to be a place where I shine.

I am, by nature, a bow sniper. If I'm in close range, I'm usually melee rather than firearms. Can I use other things? Sure... but given complete freedom, I'm still a girl who prefers her sniper rifles and bows, and my primary damage mitigation strategy is to be aware of where the damage is happening, and be somewhere else (preferably entirely across the room).

Which is fine, because there's usually more than one way to approach things. I might be fighting from across the room with headshots, but someone else might be in the thing's face hitting it with a hammer. Because the entire rest of the game allows you to approach most problems in multiple ways.

To use Arson Eximus knockback as an example... yes, you can dodge-roll into the effect to avoid it. But you could also use a frame that has an immunity to CC and knockdown/stagger -- Rhino with Iron Skin up, etc. -- or even slot Primed Sure Footed. You could use Trinity and Link to the eximus, turning their attack back on them. You could be Titania or Zephyr and just not be on the ground. (Or, more to the point, to be high enough to avoid the upper limit of that effect.)

Plus, actually taking down that Arson Eximus could also be done in multiple ways. Sure, you could headshot them from a distance. You could also be Ash and teleport in to do a finisher with Fatal Teleport, or more recently use Kullervo to teleport in and do a melee heavy attack. You could mind-control them as Nyx and make them a friendly instead. You could be Rhino and just casually walk up through their fire effect and smash them with a hammer.

Conversely, the New War -- at least when playing as Drifter -- only really allows you one approach to doing most things. And while I personally didn't have an issue with using a bow and dodging damage (which... should not be a surprise, given my gameplay preferences as stated above), there's a whole pile of other play-styles that would be viable in such encounters when in a Warframe, with access to your arsenal.

But it's not like Drifter can use Iron Skin or Razorwing. Or even a hammer.

So it's not a surprise that what the New War fights ask of people may not be in alignment with how people have previously approached similar encounters.

Like I said, I don't think that the New War itself is a mistake, even in how you have to approach the fights. I think the mistake is in not letting someone back out to regain access to the rest of the game.

By being let back out into the rest of the game, they could not only still do things with friends and tackle the New War later, but they could also practice the playstyle the New War wants from them in a scenario that's not quite so restrictive. Practice with Paris or Cernos out in normal Warframe content, be better ready to work with Nataruk once you're in the quest again. Etc.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Packetdancer

[Xrenosin]

12 часов назад, Packetdancer сказал:

Like I said, I don't think that the New War itself is a mistake, even in how you have to approach the fights. I think the mistake is in not letting someone back out to regain access to the rest of the game.

Maybe. But on the other hand, the intent of the story will be violated.

12 часов назад, Packetdancer сказал:

Conversely, the New War -- at least when playing as Drifter -- only really allows you one approach to doing most things.

I'm afraid to ask, what did the OP expect, for example, and those who sympathize with him from free-to-play grinding games?

It is natural for such games to put us sometimes in the corral of an idea, even if it contradicts our desires. The Warframe is casual enough as it is (you don't have to build a specific build, Warframe or weapon just to even taste the content).
I don't understand why people come to farm games and are looking for a great story or gameplay here...

[Packetdancer]

8 hours ago, Xrenosin said:

Maybe. But on the other hand, the intent of the story will be violated.

You can start other quests and then postpone them to come back later, whether or not it makes narrative sense, so I'd argue there's already an established expectation. Mind you, I think with the New War there's a solid argument to be made that hitting the abort button should require restarting the quest from the beginning, narratively, when you attempt it again.

8 hours ago, Xrenosin said:

I don't understand why people come to farm games and are looking for a great story or gameplay here...

I disagree with this statement, but beyond that...

If you don't think a free-to-play farm/grinding game can have good story, I don't know that I understand the basis for your earlier statement; if a game in this genre can't be expected to have good story, why should the intent of said story trump expected/established game mechanics (like "I can come back to this quest later")?

8 hours ago, Xrenosin said:

The Warframe is casual enough as it is (you don't have to build a specific build, Warframe or weapon just to even taste the content)

And that, right there, is the issue; the entire rest of the game can be played very casually, but the New War can potentially serve as a block... an obstacle that has to be passed through. Which would be annoying but not a huge problem if it just gated some content beyond it.

But as it is, if you start the quest and find the casual way in which you approached the game previously doesn't suit what the New War is asking of you? Too bad; the entire rest of the game is lost to you now. Forever. (Or at least until you sit down and play the New War and only the New War enough to hone your play-style to what it wants.)

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

2 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

But as it is, if you start the quest and find the casual way in which you approached the game previously doesn't suit what the New War is asking of you? Too bad; the entire rest of the game is lost to you now. Forever. (Or at least until you sit down and play the New War and only the New War enough to hone your play-style to what it wants.)

I mean... The entire point of the new war where the operator stops existing after being thrown into the void is that the drifter is, and isnt, the operator. It establishes that the operator and the drifter are two different versions of the same person, where the drifter is connected to (and gained their power from) the operator. I think DE could go a long way with making the drifter and their slower gameplay more normalized though; Add more drifter story content;

• When the player completes the second dream, they unlock the next drifter story quest that allows the drifter to explore the Zeriman and meet the holdfasts while setting up the zeriman breaking through the void.  
   
• When the player completes the sacrifice, they unlock another drifter story quest that follows the drifter being affected by the operator where they start to see visions and learn what they could have been (while fighting their phantom fears of a future that isnt possible for them).
   
• THEN during the new war after the operator is sucked into the void the drifter quest to finally leave the zeriman happens and we get a quest of the drifter leaving with a broken sun & moon (one of the swords is thrown away and the remaining swords part becomes a void energy themed rumblejack, establishing the rumblejack instead of it randomly appearing...) fighting their way to ordis, and working with the remaining tenno network to figure out a way to bring the operator BACK while hiding their identity. 
   
• Which then goes to the timeskip we have now (two years i think it was?) where the drifter finally has a plan to get the tools needed to get the operator (and thus their warframe) back so they can actually fight Ballas.
   
•  And finally leads into the angels of the zeriman questline, where the holdfasts for some reason all know you (because they knew the drifter... who is, and isnt, you just like they are, and arent, the people they are) and you can help them keep the void at bay like the drifter did in the above suggested drifter quest. 
   

Edited July 21, 2023 by (PSN)ARC_Paroe
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