Any new content on the Horizon besides Duviri Paradox?

[White_Matter]

Veil breaker has been nice, but we haven't had any major content update in a long while. I'm wondering if Duviri is the next big content drop or will get something like an appetizer before the main course? 

Also, how hard it is to make a road map instead of leaving the playerbase in pitch black darkness when it comes to updates?

[White_Matter]

12 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Surely you realize what you deem as "promises" aren't a legally binding contract, correct?

I don't think anyone here mentioned the term "legal" except you. If you want to meet with someone, you set a time and place. You don't show up, you got explaining to do regardless.

12 hours ago, NecroPed said:

And I fail to see how doing regular dev streams counts as leaving us in pitch black darkness when it comes to updates. 

Because I don't want to spend an hour or two on something that'd otherwise take me seconds to read and get informed. A road map would make their timings less vague. 

12 hours ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

A big issue is that people think everything DE says is a "promise". Admittedly I don't follow their devstreams closely, but I don't know I've ever heard them "promise" anything. It's just expectation management at this point. If they say they'll do something, and it's not realised within a couple of weeks, parts of the community rant and rave. Often it's the loud minority that ruin it for the rest of us. But unfortunately it means DE have had to change the way they communicate these things with us. And no doubt, lots of moving parts in the background that we're unaware of. So one small change can completely alter their development plans.

If you want a roadmap of sorts:

3-4 new frames each year, 3-4 new primes each year. Potentially one reworked tileset every 1-2 years. I'm not sure if they're done with the open-world shenanigans, but I hope they go back to cetus and fortuna and give them a bit of a touch up in terms of rep grinds etc (highly doubt it, but I can dream). Seems like they're done with improvements to NW, so any outstanding bugs/issues are now just features. Maybe some more kuva/Tenent weapons; I wasn't expecting any more, but they came out with some tenent weapons recently, so who knows. Probably some more old-frame reworks. Duviri will likely include a stack of new weapons, some will be locked behind ridiculous grind. And, in theory, there'll be some changes to acquiring tau forged shard, but it sounds like any changes there will be another 6+ months away. Since the khal missions aren't going away, we might see more of those missions; along with a long list of QoL improvements many of us would love to see (but probably won't).

I have absolutely zero experience managing a company, let alone one the size of DE. I can only imagine how rapidly things change. No doubt they have an internal roadmap, and we've seen their whiteboard version at tennocon before, but as others have pointed out, it never eventuates the way they expect, so it only leads to disappointment. Unfortunately, it's not good for anyone. They get cr@p loads of pressure, and if they're a day late, parts of the community rage-out.

Read above. They aren't obliged to promise me anything. But if you set a time and place to meet someone and don't show up, it is a problem. 

[NecroPed]

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

 

That's basically saying that If you set a time and place to meet someone and don't show up, and they call you up on it, then it is just better to not to make any plans until the last minute to avoid future conflicts.  That is a way to avoid to the problem, not to adrress it. The problem is the person who isn't fulfilling the terms they set.  And nobody would call them up on anything if it was just a small delay or if it didn't happen frequently, both of which they have been guilty of.

No it's not. It's completely different. We are talking about a game here, not getting lunch. 

And that's the thing, you are wanting a roadmap which could lead to DE not being able to fulfill the terms they set in the roadmap. That's my point. If they set a roadmap they can't necessarily commit to it. So is it better to give people a date they can't necessarily commit to? Or is it better to give people a date closer to release when they know that it's getting close to being finished and they feel they are more likely to be able to commit to it? Sure more delays can happen too. But, that's why its better to hold off until it's closer to being released. And they can't really do that if they do a roadmap with timeframes for several updates. 

[White_Matter]

6 hours ago, NecroPed said:

It is not a fact. I for one get hyped regardless of if a timeframe is given or not. I am happy to patiently wait for the updates to come while hyped for them.

I think it is better for them to withold timeframes until the updates are closer to being finished. That way they have a clearer picture of when it will actually be finished and ready for release and can account for more problems that happen a long the way. I think it is conjecture to say it is just incompetence or laziness. 

They originally planned for late 2022 I believe but decided to push it back because it needed more work. Which supports my point of it being better to wait until updates are closer to being finished to give a timeframe.

I'm not trying to assume what everyone is doing, I'm trying to be open about what people could possibly be doing based on the reasons I know of from people I have talked to. You are making pretty distinct statements that assume everyone thinks the same way you do. 

The dev streams usually give rough timeframes of updates. Dev streams are keeping players engaged. They detail the updates coming to the game and show off bits and pieces. A roadmap to me just really doesn't seem all that necessary when they're doing all that and with how many problems can happen while developing trying to commit to the timeframes of several updates ahead of the next update just seems like a bad idea to me. They had to push back duviri for example, if they had made a roadmap they would have had to have pushed back all the other updates too. At least in dev streams they can show off upcoming things without giving a date to commit to and potentially push it back, plus they generally give timeframes of updates in the dev streams too. 

It's pointless to go back and forth at this point, we've both spoken our minds neither of us have nothing to add anything new it seems.

I'll only adress one point. 

6 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I think it is better for them to withold timeframes until the updates are closer to being finished. That way they have a clearer picture of when it will actually be finished and ready for release and can account for more problems that happen a long the way. I think it is conjecture to say it is just incompetence or laziness. 

That's basically saying that If you set a time and place to meet someone and don't show up, and they call you up on it, then it is just better to not to make any plans until the last minute to avoid future conflicts.  That is a way to avoid to the problem, not to adrress it. The problem is the person who isn't fulfilling the terms they set.  And nobody would call them up on anything if it was just a small delay or if it didn't happen frequently, both of which they have been guilty of.

[NecroPed]

11 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

No, actually that's a fact.

Conjecture. It's not better that they don't give time frames, it is objectively worse. Their reasoning for not giving a timeframe is also just incompetence/lazyness and nothing else, so it is pointless to defend it. 

I didn't know Duviri had a time frame(thought it was a vague late 2022?). But maybe I should clear out what I mean by a road map. Example : 

Update X : February 2023

Update Y : April 2023

Big UPDATE Z : 3rd Quarter 2023

etc. 

Layout what's in the pipeline in detail so that people can more or less see that they can expect and look forward to incoming content.

Just because it is an assumption doesn't mean it is rubbish. We are all assuming here. Even you are now assuming what the rest of the playerbase is doing based on your own anecdote, no need to get emotional over this. 

People having other games to play has 0 bearing on what WF is doing. That's completely unrelated to the subject.  I do log in every once in a while to enjoy the gameplay, do a steel path survival or archon hunt or something but that's not the point.

The point is that having a road map would give 'up to date content vets' like me to have things to look forward to in the tangible future. If I know something is coming in february, I'd get hyped for it. IF I don't know when the next update is dropping, I'm less hyped and less enthusiastic about a game that I love playing. Having more tangible goals is a better business model and a better way to keep players engaged. That was my whole point.

It is not a fact. I for one get hyped regardless of if a timeframe is given or not. I am happy to patiently wait for the updates to come while hyped for them.

I think it is better for them to withold timeframes until the updates are closer to being finished. That way they have a clearer picture of when it will actually be finished and ready for release and can account for more problems that happen a long the way. I think it is conjecture to say it is just incompetence or laziness. 

They originally planned for late 2022 I believe but decided to push it back because it needed more work. Which supports my point of it being better to wait until updates are closer to being finished to give a timeframe.

I'm not trying to assume what everyone is doing, I'm trying to be open about what people could possibly be doing based on the reasons I know of from people I have talked to. You are making pretty distinct statements that assume everyone thinks the same way you do. 

The dev streams usually give rough timeframes of updates. Dev streams are keeping players engaged. They detail the updates coming to the game and show off bits and pieces. A roadmap to me just really doesn't seem all that necessary when they're doing all that and with how many problems can happen while developing trying to commit to the timeframes of several updates ahead of the next update just seems like a bad idea to me. They had to push back duviri for example, if they had made a roadmap they would have had to have pushed back all the other updates too. At least in dev streams they can show off upcoming things without giving a date to commit to and potentially push it back, plus they generally give timeframes of updates in the dev streams too. 

[White_Matter]

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Not everyone needs a time frame to be hyped for starters, that's just a ridiculous statement.

No, actually that's a fact.

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

And they DO give timeframes. They're just careful about when they give them and how often because things can change and if they give a date too early they can't necessarily commit to it and people get mad when they have to push things back. So it's better for everyone that they don't give too many timeframes out until content is actually closer to being released. 

Conjecture. It's not better that they don't give time frames, it is objectively worse. Their reasoning for not giving a timeframe is also just incompetence/lazyness and nothing else, so it is pointless to defend it. 

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Yeah, you mean like how DE give their timeframes? Like how duviri paradox is presented as having a release date of 2023? Or the devstream detailing that an update is coming next month?

I didn't know Duviri had a time frame(thought it was a vague late 2022?). But maybe I should clear out what I mean by a road map. Example : 

Update X : February 2023

Update Y : April 2023

Big UPDATE Z : 3rd Quarter 2023

etc. 

Layout what's in the pipeline in detail so that people can more or less see that they can expect and look forward to incoming content.

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Rubbish. Another assumption

Just because it is an assumption doesn't mean it is rubbish. We are all assuming here. Even you are now assuming what the rest of the playerbase is doing based on your own anecdote, no need to get emotional over this. 

10 hours ago, NecroPed said:

others are content taking a break and coming back when there's an update, some people just have so many games to play they don't care if one game doesn't have as much content to do because they already finished it. I don't think most of these people are just logging out due to frustration of seeing nothing. I'd even argue that it's more likely that most active veterans stay up to date on things like dev streams and teasers etc. and wont be logging in to see 'nothing happening' because they're generally up to date on what's happening and probably wouldn't even be logging in if there isn't content they want to play. I'd also argue that more people log out after logging in due to feeling lost in all of warframes features, or not knowing what to aim for, or having to relearn how to navigate through the game after a break, not because they're frustrated they see nothing happening. 

People having other games to play has 0 bearing on what WF is doing. That's completely unrelated to the subject.  I do log in every once in a while to enjoy the gameplay, do a steel path survival or archon hunt or something but that's not the point.

The point is that having a road map would give 'up to date content vets' like me to have things to look forward to in the tangible future. If I know something is coming in february, I'd get hyped for it. IF I don't know when the next update is dropping, I'm less hyped and less enthusiastic about a game that I love playing. Having more tangible goals is a better business model and a better way to keep players engaged. That was my whole point.

[NecroPed]

2 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

How are people getting hyped for upcoming content when there is no timeframe? Unless they give you an estimate, you will not get hyped. That's why upcoming games announce things like "1st Q 2023" or exact dates. 

As for logging out frustrated, yes I shouldn't assume what everyone else is doing, but I'd argue that most veterans who are up to date with content are probably on the same boat with me.

 

Not everyone needs a time frame to be hyped for starters, that's just a ridiculous statement. And they DO give timeframes. They're just careful about when they give them and how often because things can change and if they give a date too early they can't necessarily commit to it and people get mad when they have to push things back. So it's better for everyone that they don't give too many timeframes out until content is actually closer to being released. 

Yeah, you mean like how DE give their timeframes? Like how duviri paradox is presented as having a release date of 2023? Or the devstream detailing that an update is coming next month?

Rubbish. Another assumption. I'm a closed beta veteran and founders pack supporter and wholeheartedly disagree with you. A lot of people are content playing the core gameplay loop when there's nothing else, others are content taking a break and coming back when there's an update, some people just have so many games to play they don't care if one game doesn't have as much content to do because they already finished it. I don't think most of these people are just logging out due to frustration of seeing nothing. I'd even argue that it's more likely that most active veterans stay up to date on things like dev streams and teasers etc. and wont be logging in to see 'nothing happening' because they're generally up to date on what's happening and probably wouldn't even be logging in if there isn't content they want to play. I'd also argue that more people log out after logging in due to feeling lost in all of warframes features, or not knowing what to aim for, or having to relearn how to navigate through the game after a break, not because they're frustrated they see nothing happening. 

[White_Matter]

52 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

There's more than enough in dev streams and on the forums to give people that information. With all due respect, we basically already have a roadmap in the form of CONSTANT REGULAR DEVSTREAMS just not always with dates because things change all the time. 

Just watch the dev streams.. Don't want to watch? Read the dev stream overviews. It's basically a roadmap... They give us a time frame in dev streams when they have a time frame to give. You can basically already get everything you want, plus more, from dev streams, so I really, wholeheartedly, don't think we need a roadmap because we basically already have one in the form of dev streams, which gives far more detail than roadmaps tend to give as well.

People literally get hyped and look forward to content because of the dev streams, how is this going to be different if they add a roadmap with less information than a dev stream? 

I also think "most people log into the game and see that there is nothing happening, log back out frustrated" is a horrible assumption. You don't know what everyone is doing. You don't know why people are playing or not playing. I am confident that "most people" are not logging out frustrated because they see nothing happening in game (Considering there actually is? There's constant regular updates... How is there nothing happening?)

How are people getting hyped for upcoming content when there is no timeframe? Unless they give you an estimate, you will not get hyped. That's why upcoming games announce things like "1st Q 2023" or exact dates. 

As for logging out frustrated, yes I shouldn't assume what everyone else is doing, but I'd argue that most veterans who are up to date with content are probably on the same boat with me.

[NecroPed]

4 hours ago, White_Matter said:

With all due respect, I think we do.  Most people log into the game and see that there is nothing happening, log back out frustrated. But if there is a road map, then they'll have the incentive to get hyped and look forward to what's coming. Obviously that would require a time frame(can be vague), which is what I think is crucial with a road map.

There's more than enough in dev streams and on the forums to give people that information. With all due respect, we basically already have a roadmap in the form of CONSTANT REGULAR DEVSTREAMS just not always with dates because things change all the time. 

Just watch the dev streams.. Don't want to watch? Read the dev stream overviews. It's basically a roadmap... They give us a time frame in dev streams when they have a time frame to give. You can basically already get everything you want, plus more, from dev streams, so I really, wholeheartedly, don't think we need a roadmap because we basically already have one in the form of dev streams, which gives far more detail than roadmaps tend to give as well.

People literally get hyped and look forward to content because of the dev streams, how is this going to be different if they add a roadmap with less information than a dev stream? 

I also think "most people log into the game and see that there is nothing happening, log back out frustrated" is a horrible assumption. You don't know what everyone is doing. You don't know why people are playing or not playing. I am confident that "most people" are not logging out frustrated because they see nothing happening in game (Considering there actually is? There's constant regular updates... How is there nothing happening?)

[White_Matter]

17 hours ago, NecroPed said:

 I don't think we really need a roadmap on top.

With all due respect, I think we do.  Most people log into the game and see that there is nothing happening, log back out frustrated. But if there is a road map, then they'll have the incentive to get hyped and look forward to what's coming. Obviously that would require a time frame(can be vague), which is what I think is crucial with a road map.

[NecroPed]

12 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Because I don't want to spend an hour or two on something that'd otherwise take me seconds to read and get informed. A road map would make their timings less vague.

Read the overviews after the devstream then? It's generally going to be summarized pretty quickly after the stream ends. We don't need to know when things are happening until they're getting close to being ready, and when they are they generally show it off in dev streams and if you don't want to watch the devstream you can read the overviews. I don't think we really need a roadmap on top.

[rapt0rman]

And they've learned that they're unlikely to "meet at a certain time or place" so they stopped saying they will because a vocal portion of the player base does, unfortunately, think DE is obligated to promise stuff.

[NecroPed]

6 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Veil breaker has been nice, but we haven't had any major content update in a long while. I'm wondering if Duviri is the next big content drop or will get something like an appetizer before the main course? 

Also, how hard it is to make a road map instead of leaving the playerbase in pitch black darkness when it comes to updates?

Depending on what you consider major I'd say duviri is likely the next major update, and I expect the next update being detailed on the upcoming dev stream to be smaller than duviri but I can't say how big it's going to be, I guess I'll just have to watch the dev stream and find out.

And I fail to see how doing regular dev streams counts as leaving us in pitch black darkness when it comes to updates. 

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

41 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Ok so people shouldn't be held accountable for their promises. Gotcha.

Seriously though, a road map would be nice. They don't have to be precise about it, they can talk in "quarters" instead of days or months. 

A big issue is that people think everything DE says is a "promise". Admittedly I don't follow their devstreams closely, but I don't know I've ever heard them "promise" anything. It's just expectation management at this point. If they say they'll do something, and it's not realised within a couple of weeks, parts of the community rant and rave. Often it's the loud minority that ruin it for the rest of us. But unfortunately it means DE have had to change the way they communicate these things with us. And no doubt, lots of moving parts in the background that we're unaware of. So one small change can completely alter their development plans.

If you want a roadmap of sorts:

3-4 new frames each year, 3-4 new primes each year. Potentially one reworked tileset every 1-2 years. I'm not sure if they're done with the open-world shenanigans, but I hope they go back to cetus and fortuna and give them a bit of a touch up in terms of rep grinds etc (highly doubt it, but I can dream). Seems like they're done with improvements to NW, so any outstanding bugs/issues are now just features. Maybe some more kuva/Tenent weapons; I wasn't expecting any more, but they came out with some tenent weapons recently, so who knows. Probably some more old-frame reworks. Duviri will likely include a stack of new weapons, some will be locked behind ridiculous grind. And, in theory, there'll be some changes to acquiring tau forged shard, but it sounds like any changes there will be another 6+ months away. Since the khal missions aren't going away, we might see more of those missions; along with a long list of QoL improvements many of us would love to see (but probably won't).

I have absolutely zero experience managing a company, let alone one the size of DE. I can only imagine how rapidly things change. No doubt they have an internal roadmap, and we've seen their whiteboard version at tennocon before, but as others have pointed out, it never eventuates the way they expect, so it only leads to disappointment. Unfortunately, it's not good for anyone. They get cr@p loads of pressure, and if they're a day late, parts of the community rage-out.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Ok so people shouldn't be held accountable for their promises. Gotcha.

Seriously though, a road map would be nice. They don't have to be precise about it, they can talk in "quarters" instead of days or months. 

Surely you realize what you deem as "promises" aren't a legally binding contract, correct?

Stuff happens. If you haven't noticed.....there's a lot of issues and other developments going on right now. 

[White_Matter]

5 hours ago, trst said:

DE leaves us in the dark until an update is nearing release thanks to the community losing their mind when they don't release things immediately. So I wouldn't go holding your breath over getting a road map as the community already killed that.

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Because you will then complain about how they're not following their timeline if complications or pandemics or other life problems arise. 

Ok so people shouldn't be held accountable for their promises. Gotcha.

Seriously though, a road map would be nice. They don't have to be precise about it, they can talk in "quarters" instead of days or months. 

[Kaichi16]

2 hours ago, trst said:

DE leaves us in the dark until an update is nearing release thanks to the community losing their mind when they don't release things immediately. So I wouldn't go holding your breath over getting a road map as the community already killed that.

not sure if it's about "releasing things immediately", but due to the amount of times DE delays releases.

remember the new war? it was supposed to be released in 2019

if it's not ready, then just dont promise anything

[NightmareT12]

32 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

 

Yup! Regarding this one, someone from DE confirmed on reddit it's going to be a Mainline update as well. Probably a 32.5 like deal.

I guess they're probably aiming Duviri at around May-ish for now, although they'll cover it on the Devstream.

[trst]

DE leaves us in the dark until an update is nearing release thanks to the community losing their mind when they don't release things immediately. So I wouldn't go holding your breath over getting a road map as the community already killed that.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Because you will then complain about how they're not following their timeline if complications or pandemics or other life problems arise. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]