Kullervo: The best DPS/mobility Warframe since Gauss?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

For me at least...this frame man, it's how simple his abilities are, they're not new mechanics (except maybe the infamous overguard) but they're bundled up aspects of different old mechanics in Warframe meshed into amazing synergy.

first of all his amazing Teleport is one of the best mobility powers in the game, sure Wormhole has longer range but if we are anywhere that isn't open world it's the same if not better than wormhole. and it has amazing melee Crit buff that makes him on par with Warframes like Harrow.

his 2 while weak is actually a good subsume option, I replaced this one with Tharros strike and he became even better and more enjoyable.

his 3 is very simple, so simple that it's one of the most requested ability concepts in the game, i've seen it in a lot of Warframe concepts, and finally having it in game make me so happy

and finally his 4 an amazing slash + combo count stacking tool.

 

and let's talk about his Design because IT'S SO GOOD...I like any aesthetic that is Duviri related because the stage theater theme fits Warframe so much.

and of course...his other amazing thing about him is his shotgun the RAUTA...easy constant 12x combo multiplier and the damage ain't that bad!

[RafMatador22]

I'm enjoying kullervo a lot, I mean I had to make a relatively big investment in it to be able to play in the steel path, but I gathered resources for that, to invest in what I want to play, I'm really playing more with melee weapons, so he came at a great time.

[Pakaku]

I don't understand the point of mobility abilities when I can bullet-jump with anyone, or void-sling. Another problem is it forces you to heavy attack, which means you have to be careful if you don't want to spend your combo, especially if it's subsumed onto another frame and you lack his innate combo efficiency. He also seems very melee-centric in general, which does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I suppose his 3 is nice, but it doesn't make me want to put up with even more Duviri just for one ability. I can't say his other two abilities stand out as interesting, but they're harmless so whatever.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

6 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I don't understand the point of mobility abilities when I can bullet-jump with anyone, or void-sling. Another problem is it forces you to heavy attack, which means you have to be careful if you don't want to spend your combo, especially if it's subsumed onto another frame and you lack his innate combo efficiency. He also seems very melee-centric in general, which does not appeal to me in the slightest.

you know he can teleport normally right? you also know that you get the buff regardless so you don't actually have to heavy attack teleport the enemy all the time.

and mobility powers are dope, Void sling is boring, clunky and has terrible accuracy, I never manage to go where i actually want with it on some tilesets

by the time i switch to operator and hold jump for longer void sling Kullervo is already at extraction.

Edited July 2, 2023 by (PSN)Hopper_Orouk

[Numerounius]

53 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

first of all his amazing Teleport is one of the best mobility powers in the game, sure Wormhole has longer range but if we are anywhere that isn't open world it's the same if not better than wormhole. and it has amazing melee Crit buff that makes him on par with Warframes like Harrow.

Breach surge for open-world movement says hello. The choice of eidolon hunters.

 

I don't play newer frames but Voruna's parkour passive was really enticing to me when looking at newer frames to assess since all my kits are buffs with parkour stats. So that might also be competing in the newer Warframes with mobility category.

[Pakaku]

28 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

you know he can teleport normally right? you also know that you get the buff regardless so you don't actually have to heavy attack teleport the enemy all the time.

Fair enough, I only rented him in Duviri so I don't know everything about him, just first impressions

 

29 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

and mobility powers are dope, Void sling is boring, clunky and has terrible accuracy, I never manage to go where i actually want with it on some tilesets

For the most part I haven't had issues using it, but it is definitely clunky. It's also available anytime, and so is bullet-jumping

 

30 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

by the time i switch to operator and hold jump for longer void sling Kullervo is already at extraction.

I'm in no rush. If they want to speedrun to the exit and fall asleep at extraction, that's their problem, not mine

[Skoomaseller]

52 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I don't understand the point of mobility abilities when I can bullet-jump with anyone, or void-sling. Another problem is it forces you to heavy attack, which means you have to be careful if you don't want to spend your combo, especially if it's subsumed onto another frame and you lack his innate combo efficiency. He also seems very melee-centric in general, which does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I suppose his 3 is nice, but it doesn't make me want to put up with even more Duviri just for one ability. I can't say his other two abilities stand out as interesting, but they're harmless so whatever.

mobility options in game generally allow you to go further than what bullet jump/parkour can do

in kullervo's case he allows you to go from A to B instantly. though, the teleport range I feel could be a little bigger

Edited July 2, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Leqesai]

18 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

mobility options in game generally allow you to go further than what bullet jump/parkour can do

in kullervo's case he allows you to go from A to B instantly. though, the teleport range I feel could be a little bigger

Teleport range seems a bit short to me as well. Imo 35m base range would be perfect. That would get him pretty darn close to 100m at max range. At it stands a max range build doesn't even get to 75m.

On normal missions it isn't that big a deal buy 75m is a little short in open world zones.

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

mobility options in game generally allow you to go further than what bullet jump/parkour can do

in kullervo's case he allows you to go from A to B instantly. though, the teleport range I feel could be a little bigger

I can see nyx or ivara making use of the teleport well since they are naturally sluggish, but other frames don't really need it, you can get around most tilesets very fast with some of the mobility mods (parkour velocity, bulletjump, slide).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Gauss is still the better designed frame.

I’d give Kullervo a B+ and that solely because DE dropped the ball super hard on his survivability and the devstream has further proven their unwillingness to just make the changes that should be obvious to make.

But outside of that his 1 is pretty great, his 4 is decent enough (it’s combo building mechanic is really nice and makes it viable for more than damage), and his 3 massively boosts their capabilities.

But even before Gauss got buffed his overall kit was pretty ingeniously designed. And while OP hates the buffs he got and thinks DE made Gauss too strong now, they objectively made him better and made his 3 worth using more.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Yep, I would agree. Quite fond of his abilities and synergy. At first I was worried he might be too DPS focused for myself, and I do like melee... but I personally need more. I find Kullervo's 3 incredible for well, basically everything, but especially certain single target weapons. I think his passive and teleport has a lot of interesting potential too. Just overall really enjoying the Warframe, and a boost to the consistency of his durability/survivability will push him up even further in my eyes. Last two Warframes have been stellar in my opinion. 

[0_The_F00l]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

 they're bundled up aspects of different old mechanics in Warframe 

I feel this has been the norm for a few years now (exceptions do exist) but most of the new frames are a mishmash of old concepts in some form.

Guess DE is limiting modularisation of frames to the Dev builds :p

 

As to the main topic , i too am loving the simplicity and effectiveness of kullervo (despite having a relatively narrow playstyle at higher levels).

It does have a more melee focused theme , but it can really do devastating things with any good weapon.

I keep saying this , but kullervo is the distant cousin of Ash that is the one that will likely inherit the family business.

His passive is great on already heavy focused melee builds and allows a bit of hybridisation on light builds.

His 1 is great as a buff as well as for mobility , though it is not the best long traversal tool.

His 2 is ok , and can largely be ignored with something else that provides healing (life strike paired with 1 makes it kinda redundant) but is fine as is - the overguard itself is just ok. It's a good "oh S#&$" option at times.

His 3 is what makes his kit really link together (haha) it is what marked for death should have been in my opinion (or atleast a short lived version of it)

His 4 is ok , not sure it is worth it's cost , but if you are in a mission where there are choke points it can really bump up damage "death by a thousand cuts" style when paired with his 3.

From a base stats perspective he looked squishy and does need some investment to be an effective health tank but is ok for content under an hour of endurance.

[Skoomaseller]

4 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

I can see nyx or ivara making use of the teleport well since they are naturally sluggish, but other frames don't really need it, you can get around most tilesets very fast with some of the mobility mods (parkour velocity, bulletjump, slide).

correct, but subsuming also frees up that mod space so you can put on other things.

or stack mobility mods and mobility abilities and be faster than the speed of light lmao

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And while OP hates the buffs he got and thinks DE made Gauss too strong now, they objectively made him better and made his 3 worth using more.

I'm glad you mentioned that because that was indeed me a couple of years ago.

it originally were the same buffs that made me abandon him for a while just because I felt like there were no reason to run that much, and the thrill of using Gauss was gone.

 

but after playing him again, I can proudly say that I was completely wrong, and having a hard time managing his abilities is not really good gameplay design.

so yeah...I think He's perfect where he is now, 10/10 one of the most well designed Warframes. 

[FishMcCool]

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

His 4 is ok , not sure it is worth it's cost , but if you are in a mission where there are choke points it can really bump up damage "death by a thousand cuts" style when paired with his 3.

It's a lot more than ok imho. It forces slash procs which also carry over with the 3. With 10m base radius, it quickly ramps up in area covered with extra range. It absolutely devastates SP grineer. And duration is sort of irrelevant as stuff kind of dies the second you cast the curse.

[0_The_F00l]

4 minutes ago, FishMcCool said:

It's a lot more than ok imho. It forces slash procs which also carry over with the 3. With 10m base radius, it quickly ramps up in area covered with extra range. It absolutely devastates SP grineer. And duration is sort of irrelevant as stuff kind of dies the second you cast the curse.

i guess it just seem underwhelming if you already have a good heavy melee ,

as that will do a lot more damage instantly than waiting for the slashes to ad up,

it does look like the HP of the enemies is trying to race to zero and can be fun to pull off.

[Skoomaseller]

8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

it does look like the HP of the enemies is trying to race to zero and can be fun to pull off.

it is, watching their hp bars melt as they get pelted w knife rain

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

From what I've seen he looks really fun (especially as a melee user). 

The only problem is that his farm takes forever, as a single Duviri cycle takes at least 30 minutes solo, so I don't have him yet. 

His teleport also looks like it could be really good on Voruna.

[Silligoose]

9 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I don't understand the point of mobility abilities when I can bullet-jump with anyone, or void-sling. Another problem is it forces you to heavy attack, which means you have to be careful if you don't want to spend your combo, especially if it's subsumed onto another frame and you lack his innate combo efficiency. He also seems very melee-centric in general, which does not appeal to me in the slightest.

I suppose his 3 is nice, but it doesn't make me want to put up with even more Duviri just for one ability. I can't say his other two abilities stand out as interesting, but they're harmless so whatever.

From what I've seen and read, most players just don't like Operator play. It breaks the flow of play. Yes, DE made some Operator abilities extremely powerful to try and sway people into making use of it more. Yes, when compared to most mobility options, Void Sling is superior in performance. Thing is, it simply isn't as fun for many when compared to frame mobility options, which is why many stay in their frames and bullet jump or run through levels even though a more efficient option is available in the form of Void Sling. The Corpus Gas City tile set has lovely outside areas with massive gaps to jump that people mostly seem to do with their frames, despite being able to trivialize it with their Operators, because it is more fun to bullet jump into a wall dash, transitioning into another bullet jump, followed by a glide into a roll and cross that gap like that, than it is to go Operator and Void Sling 2 or 3 times. As such, even though Operator options are better than some Warframe options, players don't compare the two, because they don't plan on using the Operator. The same principle applies to other Operator options that are objectively better, but not used.

Even though standard frame manoeuvring options are very good and enjoyable, they have their limits. Not only is the teleport a little better, but it compliments the fun had in chaining together movement options to traverse a large area. It also serves to make Kullervo feel a little more unique and aids in having the frame feel more like an agile damage dealing machine. One of the more satisfying aspects of his gameplay for me is the counterplay option his teleport opens up, such as when one encounters something like a Blitz Eximus, as I'd use the teleport to evade the incoming shockwave and deliver a counterblow. It is but just a moment and doesn't happen all that often (which is not necessarily a bad thing), but it adds to the feel of the frame.

As for Kullervo himself, I'd say he is a little better suited to a more active, close-range playstyle, but has massive damage potential regardless of whether one is playing melee- or ranged-, single target- or AoE weapons.

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

From what I've seen he looks really fun (especially as a melee user). 

The only problem is that his farm takes forever, as a single Duviri cycle takes at least 30 minutes solo, so I don't have him yet. 

His teleport also looks like it could be really good on Voruna.

i know for a fact that it is possible to speedrun in 15 minutes (managed it myself) if you really rush (or go on the kullervos hold standalone quest)

But i usually complete in around 20 minutes average on experience.

so for 42 banes , you need maximum 11 runs (considering drop of 4 banes on every run) and minimum 7 runs (6 banes per run) so somewhere between 3.6 to 2.3 hours

I have the second kullervo building as we speak - and it didnt feel that bad as i was making steady progress and also adding the pathos clamps for later - didnt feel too bad.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Kullervo is great, but better than Gauss?.. hmm I dunno, that's a bit of a stretch: Teleport still takes about as long as Mach Rush in a straight line, and Thermal Sunder is a part of the Meta these days. plus Kinetic Plating gives Gauss good survivability even at higher levels.

I do love Kullervo's kit though, basically like a melee version of Harrow, who I also really like. DE does a pretty good job when it comes to melee-themed frames like Kullervo, Styanax etc, and I think once his survivability issues are addressed, he'll be a popular pick, especially amongst melee lovers.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

10 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Kullervo is great, but better than Gauss?.. hmm I dunno, that's a bit of a stretch: Teleport still takes about as long as Mach Rush in a straight line, and Thermal Sunder is a part of the Meta these days. plus Kinetic Plating gives Gauss good survivability even at higher levels.

I do love Kullervo's kit though, basically like a melee version of Harrow, who I also really like. DE does a pretty good job when it comes to melee-themed frames like Kullervo, Styanax etc, and I think once his survivability issues are addressed, he'll be a popular pick, especially amongst melee lovers.

never said he's better, but definitely better than Voruna, another mobile melee dps frame

[Leqesai]

Just hopping back in here to say I agree with the sentiment that his 2 is the best choice for subsume. While the extra layer of defenses are nice, his 1 3 and 4 synergize too well to dump. Also, the 2 being a counter to rage or hunters adrenaline hurts his energy game.

Gloom seems like an obvious choice to swap in since it gives a layer of cc and consistent health regen.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Leqesai

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

never said he's better, but definitely better than Voruna, another mobile melee dps frame

Better how?

I mean functionally voruna and kullervo are pretty different.

Voruna is a very fast infiltration quick-strike frame with very strong health and energy gain

Kullervo is damage avoidance, area dps and single target dps

If it's just about speed I don't know if kullervo would be faster. Yes teleporting is faster but in practicum I think vorunas parkour speed would result in more consistent clear speeds.

[TheGodofWiFi]

On 2023-07-02 at 3:43 AM, Leqesai said:

Imo 35m base range would be perfect.

Why stop there? Ash's teleport is 60m at base and Loki's is 75m. Just make Kullervo match or be just under Ash's range. Let's have fun with this ability, why not.