New protea augment [Temporal Erosion] is kind of bad

[-DeathOverLord-]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

So you can't see any advantage in both her Grenades and Turrets killing faster considering each single hit of both attacks strip a minimum of 10% armour? Also the armour strip increases with ability strength so right now mines standing at 22% per hit. Ignoring the unnecessary sarcastic comment at the end, it's a shame you can't see the benefit in it, because you barely need to worry about shieldgating now with this new mod. It's just great.

All you just said makes totally sense, but only on paper. In practice the fact you are stuck in your 4th and need to juggle around it to sustain your build takes away so much time away from actually using her abilities that deal damage that it is just not beneficial in any way.

And your comment on the grenades and turrets killing faster now? Maybe against like level 60 non SP enemies for sure. But if enemy you are facing is a level 400 or even 1000 heavy gunner, the ammount of damage the initial hit excluding slash procs is so minimal it doesnt make any difference if it has armor or not.

protea's 4th ability tries too much to be what ever its trying to be, sadly the band aid augment does not make it worth using.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

16 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

As a protea main i was excited for the new augment for her. Turns out it forces you to use her 4th ability which has no function in any scenario in this reality. So i am saddened to say, but protea now has 2 bad augments. Like don't get me wrong, the augment is really good on paper, but in practice is just isn't worth it. Roar is always better on protea than full armor strip and only skill you can replace to have both is her 2nd ability. So now you are missing her turrets, probably best single target damage ability in the game, but your slash grenades absolute destroy everything. This trade will make you play style way more active as you now need to keep an eye on your energy before you press your 4th but also during your 4th ability which becomes annoying really quick. And i wish that was all the downsides of this, but the worst of all is the fact that main quirk about her 4th ability is the headache it will give you with the rewind effect.

 

I am sad.

Hey wait, have you already tried it? I assumed you did but your second post makes it seem like you haven't yet. Just checking.

[-DeathOverLord-]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Hey wait, have you already tried it? I assumed you did but your second post makes it seem like you haven't yet. Just checking.

Oh yea i have. I am really in to pushing ESO leaderboard so this augment made me really excited, cause around zone 16 you need to prime enemies and armor strip would speed that process  a bit. But the with this you need to pay more atention to your skill rotation with your 4th ability and the time you spend in the rewind is time that you spend not casting abilites. So KPM ended up being too bad to even get close to zone 16.

I have also tried it in steel path MOT. It felt pretty decent with good KPM, but i cannot stress this enough, energy becomes a huge problem even when you use equilibrium and your 3rd has 150% chance to duplicate drops. So it feels very clunky when you actually have times where you need to actively try to regain that energy and you cant cast more damage abilities.

Defence had the same problem, when you rewind you eat all the energy and health orbs in your path and they are completely wasted.

And then there are all the other problems that i have talked about previous comments.

Only scenario where i would consider the augment being worth it is if you had full team buffing you with roar, extra energy etc etc. and you were pushing limits with like level cap in something like mirror defense for example. but even then, you could just use terrify for armor strip and get that bonus slow, but now you are wasting one ability slot and one mod slot for that. And also you are wasting one team spot for extra energy support that could be more defence, cc or damage.

 

:(

[GPrime96]

7 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

well yes and no. My main protea build focuses on range, str and duration. Spam as many slash grenades as possible and let slash procs kill enemies (slash procs ignore armor so armor strip is useless here). And even if her 4th ability makes her "immortal", its still makes you vulnerable if you take fatal hit in which case you are very likely to die anyway, and protea with her shield grenades alone is close to immortal with longer shieldgate and then we add in rolling guard and we have 7 second immortality when we need it.

The whole augment just makes so little sense to me. All i can see it being useful in is if you level cap disruption using her second ability as main dps.

Being knocked down when you take fatal damage is really dumb for that ability to have. What you said is also a reason i would never use that ability at higher levels.

[-DeathOverLord-]

53 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

Being knocked down when you take fatal damage is really dumb for that ability to have. What you said is also a reason i would never use that ability at higher levels.

This is exactly one of the the things that seems really good on paper, but in practice just doesn't work. Like we are supposed to activate her 4th in a safe place so incase we die we can get up from that knockdown and get back to fight, but considering the pace of this game that just doesn't work. This is what we call VISION™ in path of exile community when devs are trying to do something that just does not work in the pace of their own game.

[Kacc]

slash not ignoring armor 0_0

[ElspethKnightErrant]

On 2023-07-27 at 5:40 PM, -DeathOverLord- said:

As a protea main i was excited for the new augment for her. Turns out it forces you to use her 4th ability which has no function in any scenario in this reality. So i am saddened to say, but protea now has 2 bad augments. Like don't get me wrong, the augment is really good on paper, but in practice is just isn't worth it. Roar is always better on protea than full armor strip and only skill you can replace to have both is her 2nd ability. So now you are missing her turrets, probably best single target damage ability in the game, but your slash grenades absolute destroy everything. This trade will make you play style way more active as you now need to keep an eye on your energy before you press your 4th but also during your 4th ability which becomes annoying really quick. And i wish that was all the downsides of this, but the worst of all is the fact that main quirk about her 4th ability is the headache it will give you with the rewind effect.

 

I am sad.

My dude, the whole point of the augment is to incentivize you to use her fourth ability. Temporal Anchor is a really neat concept with a lot of cool ways to use it, but it's not actually very good, so basically everybody who plays Protea subsumes over it instead. This augment exists to give you an actual reason to keep Temporal Anchor besides "it's cool". Like, you're mixing up DE's goals when making this augment. The idea wasn't "let's give Protea some super useful armour strip!", which they then screwed up by putting it on her not very good 4. The idea was "let's give Protea players a reason to use her 4!", which they implemented by letting you armour strip by using it.

If you don't like it, then just don't use it. Protea's existing playstyle still exists, and is already extremely strong. She doesn't need a buff. What she needs is more ways to play her, and that's what this allows. Now you can choose to play her the way you already were, or you can build around her previously useless 4. Maybe it won't be as good as playing her normally, but that's fine, because she didn't need help in the first place. Augments are supposed to change how Warframes play, not just buff them.

Edited July 30, 2023 by ElspethKnightErrant

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

all these years wasted posting Temporal anchor augment concepts...just to get another armor strip...

[CrownOfShadows]

Temporal Anchor is great.

IDK how you guys are using it, but the way I use it is that I am constantly 100% in her 4, just throwing out damage, shields, dispensaries as I please, then I reverse back and immediately restart it. There's no point at which I'm not using it. It's great fun. Unique playstyle. Very energy hungry even with the receipts. The only downside is that it's not great for sprint-to-the-end missions, but we have enough frames for that.

I use black energy on my anchor build to reduce the visual overload.

I especially love temporal anchor when acolytes show up - i can get up in their face and they can't kill me. I had a blast using it for the gas city secret labs and it's generally great for exploring secret rooms and then zooping back to right where I left off. The fact that you can return to start anytime you want or cancel altogether makes it a fantastic ability. I really don't understand the hate - is this because some youtuber pooped all over it?

As for the augment, it's ok. The main issue is that her builds are tight and it's really hard to make room for an augment, and that kinda sucks. She needs a lot of mods to succeed, and the augment isn't quite good enough to make me toss any of them. To build the her the way I wish I could I'd need like 2 more mod slots. The fact that the augment scales with ability power is great though, and between the turrets and the grenades there's significant stripping happening if you build with enough power/duration. You can fully strip enemies quite easily, but it's a little directional.

[-DeathOverLord-]

1 hour ago, ElspethKnightErrant said:

My dude, the whole point of the augment is to incentivize you to use her fourth ability. Temporal Anchor is a really neat concept with a lot of cool ways to use it, but it's not actually very good, so basically everybody who plays Protea subsumes over it instead. This augment exists to give you an actual reason to keep Temporal Anchor besides "it's cool". Like, you're mixing up DE's goals when making this augment. The idea wasn't "let's give Protea some super useful armour strip!", which they then screwed up by putting it on her not very good 4. The idea was "let's give Protea players a reason to use her 4!", which they implemented by letting you armour strip by using it.

If you don't like it, then just don't use it. Protea's existing playstyle still exists, and is already extremely strong. She doesn't need a buff. What she needs is more ways to play her, and that's what this allows. Now you can choose to play her the way you already were, or you can build around her previously useless 4. Maybe it won't be as good as playing her normally, but that's fine, because she didn't need help in the first place. Augments are supposed to change how Warframes play, not just buff them.

You kinda missed the point completely. We already discussed the fact that it is just a way for DE to make us use her 4th more.
She doesn't need buff? Obviously, the point was we were excited for an augment that turned out to have no real use or value. Thus, disappointment.
Don't like it? don't use it. Yea, that's the point. It is another useless augment for protea.

And i get the "it opens new ways to play her", sure it does, and if you enjoy playing something inferior to just not using the aug, everyone is free to do so. It surely can be fun to play around with for casuals for example, but for example we have spent now too much time theorycrafting and testing it, trying to push limits. For example, if you want to push ESO leaderboard with protea, augment is not worth using on solo setup, you need at least 1 support, but preferably 2 to reach the same level or even go above her regular 1st build.

In short, it's a niche augment that just has no place in meta with protea.

[-DeathOverLord-]

11 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

Temporal Anchor is great.

IDK how you guys are using it, but the way I use it is that I am constantly 100% in her 4, just throwing out damage, shields, dispensaries as I please, then I reverse back and immediately restart it. There's no point at which I'm not using it. It's great fun. Unique playstyle. Very energy hungry even with the receipts. The only downside is that it's not great for sprint-to-the-end missions, but we have enough frames for that.

I use black energy on my anchor build to reduce the visual overload.

I especially love temporal anchor when acolytes show up - i can get up in their face and they can't kill me. I had a blast using it for the gas city secret labs and it's generally great for exploring secret rooms and then zooping back to right where I left off. The fact that you can return to start anytime you want or cancel altogether makes it a fantastic ability. I really don't understand the hate - is this because some youtuber pooped all over it?

As for the augment, it's ok. The main issue is that her builds are tight and it's really hard to make room for an augment, and that kinda sucks. She needs a lot of mods to succeed, and the augment isn't quite good enough to make me toss any of them. To build the her the way I wish I could I'd need like 2 more mod slots. The fact that the augment scales with ability power is great though, and between the turrets and the grenades there's significant stripping happening if you build with enough power/duration. You can fully strip enemies quite easily, but it's a little directional.

I can totally respect the fact you enjoy using her 4th, but i can guarantee that in the higher end gameplay the gameplay with her new augment just does not get even close to the level of her builds without it. It feels nice to certain point, but just is not enough to waste mod slot and subsume slot on.

But i do like how you told that you utilize her 4th for example in the gas city puzzles.

[(PSN)Unstar]

So at least for my personal build, I couldn't find a way to fit this Augment in that felt right.  Grenades are already regularly dealing slash procs which bypass armor, and the turrets rapidly scaling damage doesn't feel like it needs a boost, at least in the content I'm playing.  So there's nothing I felt was worth dropping from my build to get the added oomph this mod offers.

Though that said, I don't think it's in any way bad and will definitely be powerful in certain builds.  One cool thing about the Augment is that the armor strip scales with Strength, but I run just over 100% so I was getting the natural amount.

[-DeathOverLord-]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

So at least for my personal build, I couldn't find a way to fit this Augment in that felt right.  Grenades are already regularly dealing slash procs which bypass armor, and the turrets rapidly scaling damage doesn't feel like it needs a boost, at least in the content I'm playing.  So there's nothing I felt was worth dropping from my build to get the added oomph this mod offers.

Though that said, I don't think it's in any way bad and will definitely be powerful in certain builds.  One cool thing about the Augment is that the armor strip scales with Strength, but I run just over 100% so I was getting the natural amount.

I would love to see builds where the augment is truly strong and gets close to power of builds without it. So i will keep my eyes and ears open.

But the armor strip scaling with strength is funny against acolytes, i am running ~250% str (350% with her passive) and that brings the armor strip to absurd amounts and with my 235% range basically the instant the acolyte spawns it's armor is gone. That is funny to look at for sure.

[ElspethKnightErrant]

2 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

In short, it's a niche augment that just has no place in meta with protea.

The whole point is that augments don't NEED to be meta. Protea is already meta without the augment. She doesn't need an augment that goes onto her meta build and makes her even better. What she needs is a more diverse range of playstyles. Even if using her 4 with this augment is worse than subsuming her 4, it's still fundamentally useful in a way her 4 wasn't without the augment. This augment adds a whole new playstyle to a frame, and that's infinitely more valuable than making an already good frame a little better. It's only "useless" to you because you don't want to play that way, but that's fine, because you lose nothing for its existence.

Adding augments that make worse builds become decent just adds so much more to this game than augments which make strong builds even stronger.

[-DeathOverLord-]

2 minutes ago, ElspethKnightErrant said:

The whole point is that augments don't NEED to be meta. Protea is already meta without the augment. She doesn't need an augment that goes onto her meta build and makes her even better. What she needs is a more diverse range of playstyles. Even if using her 4 with this augment is worse than subsuming her 4, it's still fundamentally useful in a way her 4 wasn't without the augment. This augment adds a whole new playstyle to a frame, and that's infinitely more valuable than making an already good frame a little better. It's only "useless" to you because you don't want to play that way, but that's fine, because you lose nothing for its existence.

Adding augments that make worse builds become decent just adds so much more to this game than augments which make strong builds even stronger.

What, point seems to have been missed. I didn't mean it needs to make new meta build for her. I was just trying to explain that using the augment makes just no sense, armor strip is not useful on protea in any scenario. If you want to play her wonky 4th, you do you, but you are literally just hindering yourself by using it. 

Like i don't know how to explain this more simply, but there is no point in building around her 4th and the augment, because after you'd make build for it, replacing her 4th and replacing her augment with some useful mod would yield you much better results.

[Hexerin]

All this really does it continue to reinforce my belief that there should be a dedicated slot for augments, like we have for exilus. This way, every frame can use one augment by default, and then the player can choose to sacrifice a normal/exilus slot if they so choose for more augments. As things stand, augments are basically just the old system where you had to actually slot in your skills (because they were mods).

[-DeathOverLord-]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

All this really does it continue to reinforce my belief that there should be a dedicated slot for augments, like we have for exilus. This way, every frame can use one augment by default, and then the player can choose to sacrifice a normal/exilus slot if they so choose for more augments. As things stand, augments are basically just the old system where you had to actually slot in your skills (because they were mods).

I agree on this heavily. Augment system would need a rework for that tho, as some augments are literally build defining and way more powerful that others. But good example is mag's [Greedy Pull], you sacrifice mod slot for a HUGELY nerfed utility, and the augment isn't exilus, so you actually lose important mod slot for that.

[ElspethKnightErrant]

3 hours ago, -DeathOverLord- said:

Like i don't know how to explain this more simply, but there is no point in building around her 4th and the augment, because after you'd make build for it, replacing her 4th and replacing her augment with some useful mod would yield you much better results.

The point is that it's a unique playstyle that some people might find fun or engaging. The augment allows it to be workable instead of completely useless.

You understand there are more ways to play this game other than just chasing the single most effective thing, right?

[_Anise_]

On 2023-07-27 at 10:40 PM, -DeathOverLord- said:

As a protea main i was excited for the new augment for her

I wasn't slightly excited, her #4 is where I put gloom, even if I didn't I know that her 4 is anti mobility, it always rewinds you back to where you started, like how are you ever meant to use this outside of defense ?

in an MMO with vertical explotation this would be the bomb! here they would literally need to invent niche uses for it like getting out of a locked room then freeing your party for it to ever see use.

On 2023-07-27 at 10:40 PM, -DeathOverLord- said:

only skill you can replace to have both is her 2nd ability.

her dispenser is overrated, you can totally replace it and just run energize, zenurick , dethcube with energy pooper and arcane energize, never run out of ammo unless spamming big bad aoe guns! I hate that voruna and citrine both come with a dispenser and both of them got put in the helminth pool, we don't need more energy !!! we can make our own !

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by _Anise_

[Hexerin]

53 minutes ago, ElspethKnightErrant said:

You understand there are more ways to play this game other than just chasing the single most effective thing, right?

For normal star map, sure. Once you start running the Steel Path star map, however, that "single most effective thing" becomes the only way to actually make progress.

[-DeathOverLord-]

10 hours ago, ElspethKnightErrant said:

The point is that it's a unique playstyle that some people might find fun or engaging. The augment allows it to be workable instead of completely useless.

You understand there are more ways to play this game other than just chasing the single most effective thing, right?

"The augment allows it to be workable instead of completely useless." now you see, that just makes no sense. As we have discussed here earlier already, armor strip is close to useless on protea, making her augment very lackluster dps boost. Yea for sure it makes the build with it workable, but so much weaker than just not using it.

 

The initial hit from her slash grenades is so minimal that it's effectiveness  already starts dropping when you enter SP mot for example, the armor strip wont help them, the slash procs are where the damage comes from. And her turrets are not in the need of armor strip with the raw power they offer (especially considering how much you have to sacrifice to get that armor strip)

Edited July 31, 2023 by -DeathOverLord-
Small addition

[pisces13]

Anyone who thinks temporal erosion isn't a good augment is just straight up bad. Please don't call yourself a protea main.

The augment literally gives you an extra layer of protection and strips armor. With her 4th ability you can cancel it before the rewind activates. Just hold 4 before it hits zero. Is that hard? The augment allows her turrets to shred Draker manic bombards in sp in less than 3 seconds. These are one of the tankiest enemies in the game. More tanky than corrupted heavy units.

So now grenade fans strip armor, her turrets strip armor. And she doesnt even need to use helminth anymore. Whats all this nonsense complaining about.

[-DeathOverLord-]

Just now, pisces13 said:

Anyone who thinks temporal erosion isn't a good augment is just straight up bad. Please don't call yourself a protea main.

The augment literally gives you an extra layer of protection and strips armor. With her 4th ability you can cancel it before the rewind activates. Just hold 4 before it hits zero. Is that hard? The augment allows her turrets to shred Draker manic bombards in sp in less than 3 seconds. These are one of the tankiest enemies in the game. More tanky than corrupted heavy units.

So now grenade fans strip armor, her turrets strip armor. And she doesnt even need to use helminth anymore. Whats all this nonsense complaining about.

You make no sense. There is no scenario in this plain of existence where what you described would be more efficient or even close to same level to her build without new new poopy augment.

I can tell, you don't have much experience in using protea in actual content, so please do not come here telling me i'm not a protea main.

If you need her 4th to stay alive, you are doing something wrong, she becomes literally immortal with her shield grenades if you invest in to cast speed archon shards. And if still feel like getting bit more "immortal", just slap rolling guard in and now your shieldgate and RG combined give you 5 seconds on immortality.

 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I used it and it's pretty solid, of course you're not gonna use temporal anchor on quick missions that's just dumb and it's gonna throw you 4 rooms back, it's good for more stationary missions.

If you don't like it that's fine but to say it has no use is silly.

[-DeathOverLord-]

1 minute ago, pisces13 said:

Guy, you dont need her 4 to stay alive. Just because you're trash using her base kit doesn't mean it sucks for everyone. If you like terrify, use it. If we like temporal anchor, we will use it. The augment is beast. And you suck. Simple.

You still don't understand, guy. You need to get some experience in play protea and then start making your own opinions, instead of following others like sheep. Protea absolutely needs no armor strip, was it her augment, terrify or anything else, you are just wasting a mod and an ability slot.

My advice to you is to learn and experience her kit. Play around with her, try different helminths, take her to the level cap, take her on a 3 hour sp fissure defense, push ESO. Just play around, your comments right now are as useless as my balls. please try her.