The Age of Narmer Was Pathetic!

[TARINunit9]

19 hours ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I can't be the only one who feels this way

Even the devs agree. They've officially stated they won't say how long the New War quest actually lasted because they didn't think the quest through and raised more questions than they answered

[Marvelous_A]

Honestly I expected a deeper and wider change in the universe post-TNW. Not just some artistic change in map models. Felt like the sentient threat was way overexaggerated in the past decade, in the actual New War the Sentient empire lasted for like 2 hours. Was expecting a neverending conflict and real-time reoccurring Sentient attacks. Turns out the Thermia Fractures on Venus and Ghoul Attacks on Earth actually last longer than the Sentients...

Edited August 19, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[L3512]

Comparing TNW to The Second Dream is a great example of how bigger isn't always better. Lower stakes and a more simple story is not a bad thing in anyway.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

26 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Even the devs agree. They've officially stated they won't say how long the New War quest actually lasted because they didn't think the quest through and raised more questions than they answered

I'm just going to Underline and put in Bold the part of your answer that is completely made up, with no reference to it being present in the link you provided.

Something raising more questions than answers doesn't mean it wasn't thought through lol, it means the answer would require more questions to be answered afterwards that they may not be as willing to answer, which would potentially spoil future stories. 

[TARINunit9]

52 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Something raising more questions than answers doesn't mean it wasn't thought through lol

But it almost certainly does in this case, because

53 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

it means the answer would require more questions to be answered afterwards that they may not be as willing to answer, which would potentially spoil future stories. 

I am absolutely convinced they are NOT trying to pull this off. DE has only tried that once, which was Second Dream, and they haven't tried it since

[(PSN)MYKK678]

26 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

But it almost certainly does in this case, because

I am absolutely convinced they are NOT trying to pull this off. DE has only tried that once, which was Second Dream, and they haven't tried it since

Source or evidence?

[TARINunit9]

Just now, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Source or evidence?

War Within. Specifically, the leaked first draft.

If DE was still doing plot points the way you suppose they were, and the reasoning for taking plot points out of release candidates was to avoid spoiling too much too quickly, we would be on Saryn Umbra by now. 

[Hexerin]

59 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

we would be on Saryn Umbra by now

I'm in the camp that fully expects there to never be another Umbra. Excalibur Umbra was effectively a "We can't give you Excalibur Prime without being sued into the ground, so here's 'Definitely Not Excalibur Prime' and a story that totally doesn't just come randomly out of left field!" situation. DE really doesn't have any actual incentive to bother with further Umbras, at least not until they add Umbra Forma to the market someday in the future.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Hexerin

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

How long ago was The New War? Let's wait until TennoCon for more story stuff. New Lore always dictates new gameplay attach to it. Can't really have one without the other.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

War Within. Specifically, the leaked first draft.

If DE was still doing plot points the way you suppose they were, and the reasoning for taking plot points out of release candidates was to avoid spoiling too much too quickly, we would be on Saryn Umbra by now. 

You seem very, very confused. And I genuinely don't even mean that as an insult but as an observation. I'm not exactly sure who told you that having a roadmap for something and having multiple drafts of the "getting from A to B" stories were mutually exclusive, but they lied to you.

Most-if-not-all of the Movies you've watched, Games you've played or Books you've read weren't the first draft of that story. By a mile. Most of them are in the hundredths of iteration of the Story. That doesn't mean they all had no idea what they were doing though. People change parts of their story all the time, and that's even putting aside things like studio notes or publisher requests. Sometimes writers realise there's a better way to get from A to B without overcrowding their stories.

Also, considering the Dax who was mutated into a Warframe was named Umbra, it'd be pretty odd for us to be getting a Saryn Umbra, or any other Umbra Frame at all. It literally doesn't matter what any "first draft" of the story says as its not Canon. Only the current version.

If all we ever did was believe the first draft of a story is somehow Canon then we'd all still be arguing to this day about how Empire Strikes Back makes no sense.

[SneakyErvin]

It was a massively missed opportunity. While I dont care that we didnt fight a war versus the sentient during the quest, the Narmer part could have easily ended TNW and turned Sol into a resistance struggle and fight for freedom. The garrison mission setup could have easily been a mission setup for WFs. Bounties that simply take place on the star chart, heck they could have been combined with Archon fights that show up as frequent randomly occuring side objectives. Maybe even with a Stalker approach where they simply come gunning for us, adding some risk to an otherwise quite normal mission. Which would require us to come prepared to take them out.

[TARINunit9]

13 hours ago, Hexerin said:

I'm in the camp that fully expects there to never be another Umbra.

Not anymore, we can agree on that much. But when Excalibur Umbra was FIRST announced, the language used made it clear the plan at the time was to make more Umbras.

Clearly those plans have changed.

11 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

You seem very, very confused. And I genuinely don't even mean that as an insult but as an observation. I'm not exactly sure who told you that having a roadmap for something and having multiple drafts of the "getting from A to B" stories were mutually exclusive, but they lied to you.

I think you and I have completely lost the thread of each other's arguments and we're both responding to stuff we haven't actually said (minus the Umbra part, which just needed the clarification above)

My argument is that DE rushed the New War so heavily and so badly, they didn't bother thinking through most of the plot points and were willing to deliberately change or disregard prior foreshadowing. And I brought up War Within as evidence they are willing to do that.

That is my argument here. What is yours? I want to respond to what your argument actually is

Edited August 19, 2023 by TARINunit9

[Genitive]

30 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

My argument is that DE rushed the New War so heavily and so badly, they didn't bother thinking through most of the plot points and were willing to deliberately change or disregard prior foreshadowing. And I brought up War Within as evidence they are willing to do that.

This is what happens when you put what should have been a campaign into a several-hours-long quest. The whole experience would have been a lot better if it had been several quests.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

42 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Not anymore, we can agree on that much. But when Excalibur Umbra was FIRST announced, the language used made it clear the plan at the time was to make more Umbras.

Clearly those plans have changed.

I think you and I have completely lost the thread of each other's arguments and we're both responding to stuff we haven't actually said (minus the Umbra part, which just needed the clarification above)

My argument is that DE rushed the New War so heavily and so badly, they didn't bother thinking through most of the plot points and were willing to deliberately change or disregard prior foreshadowing. And I brought up War Within as evidence they are willing to do that.

That is my argument here. What is yours? I want to respond to what your argument actually is

My argument from the very beginning was simply that if anyone wants to bemoan The New War, that's their choice. I'm never going to try to tell someone they should like something that they don't, that makes no sense anyway. But stick to facts, don't throw in conspiracy theories dressed up as facts and expect someone not to pick up on it.

And it's been a consistent position throughout our entire conversation:

- I pointed out your imaginary "fact"

- You claimed it was real

- I asked for a source or proof

- You linked a thread that had a first draft of a story, which just.... it just means nothing

- I explained exactly why it means nothing, still waiting for actual proof

- I get the reply above

Please feel free to scroll up if you need to verify any of the recap provided. But as of right now you're still claiming DE is "rushing stories" and "didn't have a plan", and so far under the impossible weight of 1 mere question regarding proof of this, your point has fallen apart like a wet cake.

I'm not here to defend DE, they make good choices and they make bad ones in my own opinion, but that's the difference, that's my opinion, I'm not going to try to push to make it look like a fact.

I "get" why some people were disappointed with The New War, and again I wouldn't try to tell them not to be. But I also can't help it if I see either nonsense or fiction portrayed as fact which requires correction. As an example of both:

A) Nonsense: New War should have changed the Star Chart and had a bigger impact changing missions going forward. Yeah, that's an absolutely terrific way to decrease the amount of players who can play alongside New Players alright. If there was a change to the Star Chart then there'd need to be a new Narmer Version of the Entire StarChart considering you cant have New Players face off against 120 Grineer with Overguard. Considering there's already Steel Path splitting missions in 2, an additional 3rd option would almost certainly make it more difficult for New Players to get into the game. It has literally happened exactly like that in past MMOs, most of which are now gone.

B) Fiction: I'm going to say that DE has rushed the story and don't have the capability to plan forwards. Great, but so far from one single request of proof there's been nothing even close to it provided. It's great I can have a look now at what the first draft of one of their stories was, so thank you for that. But it didn't even provide 1% proof of your claim, and I went into great detail as to why earlier. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but in like 6 or 7 days we're supposed to be getting a convention from the folks who can't plan forwards, which is going to tease the 5 year plan they have for the game, right? And isn't a lot of folks disappointment with New War rooted in the idea that previous quests, updates and dev discussions were all hyping what New War was going to be, months/years ahead of time, which would require a planned approach from the folks who cant plan?

 

It's been one point all the way through pal, there's no confusion about what I'm talking about from my perspective I can assure you.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

13 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

You seem very, very confused. And I genuinely don't even mean that as an insult but as an observation. I'm not exactly sure who told you that having a roadmap for something and having multiple drafts of the "getting from A to B" stories were mutually exclusive, but they lied to you.

Most-if-not-all of the Movies you've watched, Games you've played or Books you've read weren't the first draft of that story. By a mile. Most of them are in the hundredths of iteration of the Story. That doesn't mean they all had no idea what they were doing though. People change parts of their story all the time, and that's even putting aside things like studio notes or publisher requests. Sometimes writers realise there's a better way to get from A to B without overcrowding their stories.

Also, considering the Dax who was mutated into a Warframe was named Umbra, it'd be pretty odd for us to be getting a Saryn Umbra, or any other Umbra Frame at all. It literally doesn't matter what any "first draft" of the story says as its not Canon. Only the current version.

If all we ever did was believe the first draft of a story is somehow Canon then we'd all still be arguing to this day about how Empire Strikes Back makes no sense.

As someone who writes novels irl, I'll confirm that the the first draft would never be the same as the final draft. However, if you think about what you're doing and plan out your fiction, it will be the same story overall. That's as a writer of books. When it comes to TV productions, they end up making beigger changes more often. Videogames top the list, with plot tyipcally taking a back seat while the devs argue about everything. Infact, videogames are most likely the hardest medium to create complex fiction for, since there are so many dynamic forces that tend to jerk the writing around. And that's all before editing lmao. And editing is another animal entirely. And then more revisions because of what the dev team is able to pull off in the time frame and so on. It's giving me PTSD thinking about it. 

As a side note, I'd love to do a project for DE some day when my current series is over. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

- I pointed out your imaginary "fact"

OK I see, that's what you don't like about my argument, you think I'm putting words in DE's mouth

Look, when DE admits that their first draft was so bad (their implications, not mine) that it "raised more questions than answered" (their words, not mine) and their decision was to just chop out entire lines of exposition (their words, not mine), I don't feel like "didn't think it through" (my words) is a huge leap of logic

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but in like 6 or 7 days we're supposed to be getting a convention from the folks who can't plan forwards, which is going to tease the 5 year plan they have for the game, right? And isn't a lot of folks disappointment with New War rooted in the idea that previous quests, updates and dev discussions were all hyping what New War was going to be, months/years ahead of time, which would require a planned approach from the folks who cant plan?

The big future plans they show at Tennocon really don't help your argument. Their best Tennocons are the ones they only show off stuff about a month in advance (Plains of Eidolon in 2017, Cambion Drift in 2020) and frankly those were some pretty good updates. While the stuff they try to hype years in advance (Railjack teased in 2018; New War, Duviri, and Squad Link all teased in 2019), I mean that's not exactly evidence they have stellar planning-ahead skills, especially not when the fandom thinks they were some of the lesser updates

Basically I've stopped giving DE the benefit of the doubt. I'll give them congratulations when they make something good -- because they do still make good content -- but I've stopped expecting it to be good

[(PSN)MYKK678]

54 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK I see, that's what you don't like about my argument, you think I'm putting words in DE's mouth

Look, when DE admits that their first draft was so bad (their implications, not mine) that it "raised more questions than answered" (their words, not mine) and their decision was to just chop out entire lines of exposition (their words, not mine), I don't feel like "didn't think it through" (my words) is a huge leap of logic

The big future plans they show at Tennocon really don't help your argument. Their best Tennocons are the ones they only show off stuff about a month in advance (Plains of Eidolon in 2017, Cambion Drift in 2020) and frankly those were some pretty good updates. While the stuff they try to hype years in advance (Railjack teased in 2018; New War, Duviri, and Squad Link all teased in 2019), I mean that's not exactly evidence they have stellar planning-ahead skills, especially not when the fandom thinks they were some of the lesser updates

Basically I've stopped giving DE the benefit of the doubt. I'll give them congratulations when they make something good -- because they do still make good content -- but I've stopped expecting it to be good

"when DE admits that their first draft was so bad (their implications, not mine)"

It is your implication though, it's 100% yours. What I'm guessing is you see the term "raises more questions than answers", automatically (albeit incorrectly) assume that means it 100% has to be a negative, and attach the idea of "oh so the original story must have been bad" to it. There is no admittance of anything, good nor bad, in the answer you linked. Theres a phrase, and then theres your interpretation of the phrase. In reality the phrase is actually more commonly attributed to something that could get confusing and/or wont make sense without explaining more than the person is willing to.

Let me put this in a different context. Say you go and get yourself a tattoo. You decide you want to get a certain quote that means a lot to you done, but you want it done in Urdu instead of English. You get the tattoo, youre happy with it, alls great. Then one of your friends notices it and asks what it says. The tattoo itself "raises more questions than answers". Because if you wanted to tell your friend, you have to explain what it says, explain why you decided to get it in Urdu, then explain where it comes from, and then explain why it means so much to you. Its not inherently negative, it literally makes someone need to ask more questions after the initial one because 1 answer wont be enough. That's all the phrase means.

This means that the very beginning of your train of thought towards the subject (as you displayed in your post) was based on a misunderstanding. I want to make it clear too as the Internet works in devious ways sometimes and makes things look worse than intended, that's not an attempted jab at your intelligence. Anyone who says they've never misunderstood anything is lying. I've certainly done it In the past, it's one of the main ways we learn. Point being, the misunderstanding corrupted the entire train of thought.

 

"especially not when the fandom thinks they were some of the lesser updates"

Neither of us can speak for a majority of players in such a generalised way. There is no argument there, we both equally cannot so I'm straight-up putting the last nail in that coffin. Every day there's folks on the Forums or Ingame who talk about how "X Frame" is so OP that everyone uses them. Then DE gives us the yearly stats and that frames used by 3% of the playerbase or less. To attempt to say a huge group of the playerbase thinks or does or likes or dislikes X is folly.

 

"I'll give them congratulations when they make something good"

I'm never going to argue against something like that, because it's completely rational. Everyone has different experiences with different Online Games. I've played a good few at this stage that were happy enough to throw in Loot Boxes and churn out the same content reskined over and over and over. Devs that banned players who genuinely accidentally used an exploit the Devs themselves created and kicking folks off their Forums for giving actual literal constructive criticism instead of being nasty or just criticising.

Right now (if i had a few spare hours) I can go into an endless survival mode with a Parkour Ninja with powers, then run around an open world area in a big mech suit fighting waves of enemies, then relax for a while playing a Roguelike Souls-ish mode where I dress my Drifter up in Dax gear as if I were playing some twisted futuristic version of Ghost of Tsushima, then go fly my Spaceship into an asteroid field and take on a big Corpus Ship along with its smaller backup ships, then spend 15 mins chuckling at the conversations at Kahls Garrison, and end it with gaining a Nemesis and working my way into tracking them down and beating them. I genuinely, hand-on-heart cannot think of one other MMO that allows you to do all that or similar, for free. If someone doesn't like certain genres of games, that can't really be helped. In the future there might be a mode I won't like. But it certainly won't ruin everything I already do like. It doesn't possess the ability to do that.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Let me put this in a different context. Say you go and get yourself a tattoo. You decide you want to get a certain quote that means a lot to you done, but you want it done in Urdu instead of English. You get the tattoo, youre happy with it, alls great. Then one of your friends notices it and asks what it says. The tattoo itself "raises more questions than answers". Because if you wanted to tell your friend, you have to explain what it says, explain why you decided to get it in Urdu, then explain where it comes from, and then explain why it means so much to you. 

If the purpose of the tattoo was to look cool to everyone else, then by "raising more questions than answers" (confusing people instead of looking cool) it was a bad tattoo.

THAT is why I say it was DE's implications, not mine.

Everything else we are in mostly agreement on. I could talk about how I see way more complaints and calls for rework on Railjack than Plains, but we would be picking the smallest of nits there

[(PSN)MYKK678]

16 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

If the purpose of the tattoo was to look cool to everyone else, then by "raising more questions than answers" (confusing people instead of looking cool) it was a bad tattoo.

THAT is why I say it was DE's implications, not mine.

Everything else we are in mostly agreement on. I could talk about how I see way more complaints and calls for rework on Railjack than Plains, but we would be picking the smallest of nits there

It literally just happened again, in the post I'm replying to here. Theres no part of the example I just gave you where it either says nor even hints that the tattoo was being gotten to "look cool". I didn't even specify where the tattoo was, just that a friend happened to notice it.

These are assumptions, not facts. But you keep building your entire arguments around them, which is exactly why so far they haven't made sense. I have tattoos, a few actually. Not one of them was bought so I would look cool. Im not even trying to look down on tattoo's that were purchased just to look cool, to each their own. But I specifically waited till I was in my mid 20s to get the first one, knowing that if I went beforehand I might be tempted to get some silly "looks cool" tattoo, and then later be paying for some "hurts like hell" tattoo removal.

Point being, there's nothing in the example saying its for that purpose, there's nothing slightly hinted in the story saying its for that purpose, that purpose only exists to you, and to you alone. It might be that your only understanding of why people get tattoo's is changing your view of the entire example. Theres nothing "wrong" with having a certain view of things, but it doesn't mean it's correct though. It's an exact mirror of the "raises more questions" situation. You have a belief that folks only get tattoo's to look cool, and so you inserted "look cool" into the example when it isnt actually there. You have a belief that "raises more questions" is only ever used in a negative way, and so you inserted "a negative side" into the situation that isn't there.

Its a perspective thing, but the main point is that it doesn't automatically make it correct. Because the very beginning of that thought process originates from an assumption, not a fact.

[TARINunit9]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

It literally just happened again, in the post I'm replying to here. Theres no part of the example I just gave you where it either says nor even hints that the tattoo was being gotten to "look cool". I didn't even specify where the tattoo was, just that a friend happened to notice it.

I did it on purpose because I found your metaphor flawed. A tattoo can have many purposes, sentimental or aesthetic, personal or public. It can have many purposes. A tattoo is only bad if it fails at its purpose.

Warframe's story has a very well defined purpose, at least to DE.

If DE changes a draft of the story, they are ADMITTING, unequivocally and fundamentally, something was wrong with that draft. That something about that draft was failing its purpose.

So that is what my bottom line comes down to. The fact. The very fact DE admitted to changing the story from a previous draft, is an ADMISSION the previous draft failed the purpose of Warframe's story in some way. You and I seem to be in complete disagreement over that fundamental position

From there I admit to extrapolation. I do not believe the final draft is very much better. I also do not believe DE is good at forward planning,nand if they were better at forward planning the final draft would have been very much better. But I don't think our debate will advance much further simply because we disagree on the very base fundamental 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The very fact DE admitted to changing the story from a previous draft, is an ADMISSION the previous draft failed the purpose of Warframe's story in some way.

Most likely the inverse. The abilities of the devs and the time they had probably meant that certain sections had to be rewritten to fit whatever scope that DE could reasonably produce. On top of that, they probably spent half the time coming to an agreement on many details. 

It is also common for a previous draft to be better than the current draft.

[CephalonCarnage]

15 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

My argument from the very beginning was simply that if anyone wants to bemoan The New War, that's their choice. I'm never going to try to tell someone they should like something that they don't, that makes no sense anyway. But stick to facts, don't throw in conspiracy theories dressed up as facts and expect someone not to pick up on it.

And it's been a consistent position throughout our entire conversation:

- I pointed out your imaginary "fact"

- You claimed it was real

- I asked for a source or proof

- You linked a thread that had a first draft of a story, which just.... it just means nothing

- I explained exactly why it means nothing, still waiting for actual proof

- I get the reply above

Please feel free to scroll up if you need to verify any of the recap provided. But as of right now you're still claiming DE is "rushing stories" and "didn't have a plan", and so far under the impossible weight of 1 mere question regarding proof of this, your point has fallen apart like a wet cake.

I'm not here to defend DE, they make good choices and they make bad ones in my own opinion, but that's the difference, that's my opinion, I'm not going to try to push to make it look like a fact.

I "get" why some people were disappointed with The New War, and again I wouldn't try to tell them not to be. But I also can't help it if I see either nonsense or fiction portrayed as fact which requires correction. As an example of both:

A) Nonsense: New War should have changed the Star Chart and had a bigger impact changing missions going forward. Yeah, that's an absolutely terrific way to decrease the amount of players who can play alongside New Players alright. If there was a change to the Star Chart then there'd need to be a new Narmer Version of the Entire StarChart considering you cant have New Players face off against 120 Grineer with Overguard. Considering there's already Steel Path splitting missions in 2, an additional 3rd option would almost certainly make it more difficult for New Players to get into the game. It has literally happened exactly like that in past MMOs, most of which are now gone.

B) Fiction: I'm going to say that DE has rushed the story and don't have the capability to plan forwards. Great, but so far from one single request of proof there's been nothing even close to it provided. It's great I can have a look now at what the first draft of one of their stories was, so thank you for that. But it didn't even provide 1% proof of your claim, and I went into great detail as to why earlier. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but in like 6 or 7 days we're supposed to be getting a convention from the folks who can't plan forwards, which is going to tease the 5 year plan they have for the game, right? And isn't a lot of folks disappointment with New War rooted in the idea that previous quests, updates and dev discussions were all hyping what New War was going to be, months/years ahead of time, which would require a planned approach from the folks who cant plan?

 

It's been one point all the way through pal, there's no confusion about what I'm talking about from my perspective I can assure you.

1. The idea that spliitting the player base into 2 is bad is false. We all know there is a power imbalance between new and old players, and taking the "nuke everything while the newbie looks on asking why are there no enemies" away is a good thing. I am pretty certain it already happens, lower level players are either non-existent or I am matched with players of a similar level to my own in pub matches. Already we also have the New war assets change randomly depending if you're a host and have played it, new players used to frozen Orb Vallis would get confused if it suddenly was all slushy and warm so they don't get to see it.  The playerbase is already split. Saying steel path split in two is part of this problem is dumb. Experienced players playing 2 different steel paths make zero different to new players. New players are fine, they progress the old game until they are old players and then the problem stops as they can play any part of it.

2. DE rushed it. you want objective facts to say this. There was covid and we all know that impacted decision making, they couldn't get the voice actors in studio and had to make do. They also forgot the paracesis existed. All that build up in the previous 3 mini teaser quests to make the thing and then they didn't even expect you to have built one to start this new quest. Theyremembered to make you spend plat on a Railjack and Mech though. The disconnect between the 3 mini quests and TNW is so large its lke they are for different things. (Which I believe they are - the 3 old ones were for a continuation of the WF story that was dropped or otherwise changed to become Duviri and then they were not relevant to the new storyline, but that's my speculation)

 

I'm sure they planned Duviri. The New War was just a way to end one storyline and start their new one based on Duviri. Whether because they were bored with warframe, played Elden Ring too much, or just thought the power creep had gotten so out of hand they had to start afresh is debatable.

[Venus-Venera]

Am 18.8.2023 um 07:31 schrieb (XBOX)Architect Prime:

Not only did the faction only rule over its territories for about 2 seconds before the real powerhouse factions (Corpus, Tenno, Grineer) bullied them into obscurity. It also marks an off-topic year for Warframe's core expirience lol

I can't be the only one who feels this way

yes. i skipped it. donno who have fun here

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

1. The idea that spliitting the player base into 2 is bad is false. We all know there is a power imbalance between new and old players, and taking the "nuke everything while the newbie looks on asking why are there no enemies" away is a good thing. I am pretty certain it already happens, lower level players are either non-existent or I am matched with players of a similar level to my own in pub matches. Already we also have the New war assets change randomly depending if you're a host and have played it, new players used to frozen Orb Vallis would get confused if it suddenly was all slushy and warm so they don't get to see it.  The playerbase is already split. Saying steel path split in two is part of this problem is dumb. Experienced players playing 2 different steel paths make zero different to new players. New players are fine, they progress the old game until they are old players and then the problem stops as they can play any part of it.

2. DE rushed it. you want objective facts to say this. There was covid and we all know that impacted decision making, they couldn't get the voice actors in studio and had to make do. They also forgot the paracesis existed. All that build up in the previous 3 mini teaser quests to make the thing and then they didn't even expect you to have built one to start this new quest. Theyremembered to make you spend plat on a Railjack and Mech though. The disconnect between the 3 mini quests and TNW is so large its lke they are for different things. (Which I believe they are - the 3 old ones were for a continuation of the WF story that was dropped or otherwise changed to become Duviri and then they were not relevant to the new storyline, but that's my speculation)

 

I'm sure they planned Duviri. The New War was just a way to end one storyline and start their new one based on Duviri. Whether because they were bored with warframe, played Elden Ring too much, or just thought the power creep had gotten so out of hand they had to start afresh is debatable.

Great thanks.

Would you mind linking the source of the data you have that says "New Players are doing fine"? Its just that the yearly stats that DE releases doesn't include Churn Rates.

Also can you provide the information to help backup the claim that "There was covid and we all know that impacted decision making "? I of course have no doubt that Covid had an effect, but considering how games are made and knowing how far ahead of time things are done, without a source for this claim it just looks like nonsense. I don't want to jump to conclusions however, so I'd be interested in seeing your source.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Genitive said:

This is what happens when you put what should have been a campaign into a several-hours-long quest. The whole experience would have been a lot better if it had been several quests.

Yep that was the idea halfway through development for it. They went from it being a single quest to it being a year long "event", or well they planned for that to happen. But in the end it feels like they skipped the whole "event" setup halfway through aswell and went back to a singular story.

Wouldnt surprise me if it was reverted into a quest due to the troubles they had with Scarlet Spear. I mean we had potential for an event based new war with the few events leading up to the quest, but likely neglected halfway there. Heck it who knows, maybe parts of TNW quest were really going to be event pieces. I could really see some squad link idea going into the Kahl, Vapo and Teshin parts, maybe not with those characters but with some squads working together or some squads aswell as the custom characters.