PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[PollexMessier]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)NondoBear said:

too bad 4 more regal aya wasn't added so whoever don't got both warframes can get them I mean if heirlooms are never returning then atleast make the deal really the best.

yall up the plat but just my opinion for new or returning players 4 more regal aya would be great.

The 6 regal aya in the bundle does get you both frames.
Prime frames are 3ra a piece.
What it doesn't get you is both prime packs which include their weapons and accesories. And since they're such old primes their weapons don't hold up very well anyways. Except Reaper prime which got buffed pretty hard in Mele 3.0. but it's still pretty meh compared to more recent weapons. And also tacking on the cost of prime resurgence accessories in a new skin pack is just a bit... dumb.

Pretty sure putting more regal aya in the packs would just piss players off more.

Edited September 1, 2023 by PollexMessier

[NecroPed]

50 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which is fine to have concerns about, but I don't really think it would even be a common enough problem to matter. I'd wager that most people who have purchased the packs are fine with their purchase, especially now that they're getting more. Those that aren't fine shouldn't be left as they are, and if a refund is what's needed to resolve it then a refund is what's needed. DE is more than capable of issuing refunds. They might not want to, but there's no threat of corrupt data or whatever. DE handles refunds and chargebacks all the time. Negative plat might be an issue, but that's something for them to deal with on a case-by-case basis and since it's a problem of DE's own creation there's no reason to be concerned about them having to fix it.

I agree that most would commit to their purchase. This point of discussion simply stems from someone else suggesting that THE solution is a simple reduction in cost, which it is not, because there are layers to the problems at hand. And so far the value of the pack is the only issue thats been remotely addressed, even if its not a perfect solution(which can be alleviated in other ways). 

[NecroPed]

1 minute ago, PollexMessier said:

The 6 regal aya in the bundle does get you both frames.
Prime frames are 3ra a piece.
What it doesn't get you is both frame packs which include their weapons. And since their such old primes their weapons don't hold up very well anyways. Except reaper prime which got buffed pretty hard in Mele 3.0 but it's still pretty meh compared to more recent weapons.

Pretty sure putting more regal aya in the packs would just piss players off more.

I have issue with the amount of regal aya because of the purchasable amounts. Sure you can get both frames for 6 regal aya, but thats the ABSOLUTE LOWEST VALUE OF YOUR REGAL AYA, to get the best value out of it you need to buy more (which isn't an inherent problem), AND you need to buy more than is needed for the purchase because you literally cannot buy just 4 regal aya. 

I think this situatuo can only be resolved in one of two ways.

1. Changing regal aya to allow purchasing of any amount between 1-15. Which I highly doubt will happen at this point. 

Or 

2. Put 1 or 4 extra regal aya in the pack to make the purchasable and spendable amounts consistent so no excess regal aya beyond what is needed for the purchase is required to be purchased to get the best value. This shouldn't come with an increase in cost, and given the platinum increase I feel 1 is the only appropriate amount to avoid them giving far too much for the cost of the pack. 

 

The problem I have is that this is pushing people to devaluing that 6 regal aya, or purchasing more than they need because its their only two options. 

[(PSN)PheonixFontaine]

To anyone who thinks refunds are easy, they're not here.

Anything done through the DE site should be pretty smooth, but any purchases done through 3rd party services (Steam for example) and console stores tend to have their own refund policy. Usually since the content is "in addition to" the core game, a refund through those stores is not usually allowed for reasons of exploitation. (Steam for example only allows you to refund DLC if the base game meets the refund policy rules and is also refunded.)

[PublikDomain]

11 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I'm not suggesting that they can't process refunds, but its common practice for digital items tied to an account to not be refundable, so it begs the question of why is that actually the case?

Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with DE refunding digital items. They give you the "we're only doing it just this one time" line but that's it. A few years ago I just asked nicely:

Quote

Hey there PublikDomain !

As a one-time courtesy of DE, I have reversed this purchased for you! You should find the item refunded and the platinum added to your balance. Please note that all platinum purchases are considered to be final and in the future we may not be able to reverse the purchase for you; please be more cautious!

And they also have to be able to handle chargebacks, which are just spicy refunds. And when they do they have no trouble tracking and clawing back plat even when it's traveled to another person's account.

The answer to "why is that actually the case" is that they just don't want to. They'd rather not have people bugging support for refunds all the time, and they'd rather have you buy more plat instead.

[PollexMessier]

18 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I have issue with the amount of regal aya because of the purchasable amounts. Sure you can get both frames for 6 regal aya, but thats the ABSOLUTE LOWEST VALUE OF YOUR REGAL AYA, to get the best value out of it you need to buy more (which isn't an inherent problem), AND you need to buy more than is needed for the purchase because you literally cannot buy just 4 regal aya. 

I think this situatuo can only be resolved in one of two ways.

1. Changing regal aya to allow purchasing of any amount between 1-15. Which I highly doubt will happen at this point. 

Or 

2. Put 1 or 4 extra regal aya in the pack to make the purchasable and spendable amounts consistent so no excess regal aya beyond what is needed for the purchase is required to be purchased to get the best value. This shouldn't come with an increase in cost, and given the platinum increase I feel 1 is the only appropriate amount to avoid them giving far too much for the cost of the pack. 

 

The problem I have is that this is pushing people to devaluing that 6 regal aya, or purchasing more than they need because its their only two options. 

Okay but-
The frames and weapons are earnable, and tradable. So the only reasonable thing to spend regal aya on is the accessories on their own anyways. If people wanna whale their way around farming and/or just to get the legitimately pointless exclusive glyphs form the packs, that's not really an issue imo. Especially since one of the many problems with Heirloom to begin with is people that already have the frames don't need the regal aya at all.

Buying the resurgence packs is a greater devalue of regal aya than buying individual accessories, cus the packs give you stuff you can get without paying, or with a much cheaper cost of platinum off the player market.

Edited September 1, 2023 by PollexMessier

[NecroPed]

35 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with DE refunding digital items. They give you the "we're only doing it just this one time" line but that's it. A few years ago I just asked nicely:

And they also have to be able to handle chargebacks, which are just spicy refunds. And when they do they have no trouble tracking and clawing back plat even when it's traveled to another person's account.

The answer to "why is that actually the case" is that they just don't want to. They'd rather not have people bugging support for refunds all the time, and they'd rather have you buy more plat instead.

I've never had issues with that too but for all I know it might be limited to avoid that risk as much as possible. As well as having potential extra risks/the inherent risk being from when it is a purchase that can be made through means other than platinum. For example buying through steam and having steam and warframe both requiring some form of work for refunding and deleting goods.

I don't think that means that its exempt from issues. 

Maybe it is just because they want to, but maybe theres more to it than it might seem. I don't know so I can't rule it out, that is all. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by NecroPed

[NecroPed]

28 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Okay but-
The frames and weapons are farmable, and tradable, in the game. So the only reasonable thing to spend regal aya on is the accessories on their own anyways. If people wanna whale their way around farming and/or just to get the legitimately pointless exclusive glyphs form the packs, that's not really an issue imo. Especially since one of the many problems with Heirloom to begin with is people that already have the frames don't need the regal aya at all.

Buying the packs is a greater devalue of regal aya cus they give you stuff you can get without paying, or with a much cheaper platinum cost off the player market.

If someone is able to make the most out of it in their own way, whether its because they have one/both of the frames or they farm parts of it etc., then thats great, but that doesn't take away from the problem that if you are spending money and want to spend more you are being pushed into devaluing your prior purchase and/or requiring excess not needed for the purchase. When it comes to the purchasing, I think the ability to earn the frames can be disregsrded, since it might not even be their preference when they're spending to begin with. As well as still tying into devaluing the purchase because you can substantially increase your costs by having just 1 of the frames and still needing to spend more for the rest, which you have devalued by obtaining part of the bundle you need to buy for best value. 

As far as I'm concerned it only takes 1 person to potentially be pushed into buying just 1 more regal aya than they need (though you at best require buying 2-3 extra regal aya on top of the 4 needed to complete the purchase) to justify change for this because it is inherently anti consumer as far as I'm concerned. And while addressing the purchasable amounts of regal aya would address it directly, I don't believe that will be an option and thus adding 1 regal aya to this pack, which directly incentivizes falling for the excess regal aya trap would be the next best option (while also sticking to the consistency between purchasable and spendable amounts for any future bundles containing regal aya). Adding 1 regal aya to the current pack shouldn't piss anyone off thats already purchased it, it shouldn't piss off anyone who's thinking about purchasing it but needs to be swayed, and it shouldn't piss people off who don't want the regal aya if they add a pack without the regal aya. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by NecroPed

[Commander]

3 hours ago, Tyfyter2002 said:

Except in this analogy, nobody is tied to the track, and you can get up and step away at literally any time of your choosing.
Oh, but you might miss the trolley, I guess...? There will be more; just make sure not to lie down on the track next time.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Commander

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

On 2023-08-30 at 2:08 PM, [DE]Megan said:

We are increasing Platinum to all Heirloom Packs to bring them alongside Prime Access standards

No one asked for this they asked for a 4th pack with just the cosmetics that isn't inflated by platinum and aya  stop with your greedy business actions and actually listen to your fans DEcent 

 

I dont think anyone can trust you after this greedy stunt you pulled off you should have learned from your stupid regal aya debacle but no you made the same mistake and doubled down  not listening to your fans.  Greedy DEcent

[Stafelund]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Anecdotally, I've never had an issue with DE refunding digital items. They give you the "we're only doing it just this one time" line but that's it. A few years ago I just asked nicely:

And they also have to be able to handle chargebacks, which are just spicy refunds. And when they do they have no trouble tracking and clawing back plat even when it's traveled to another person's account.

The answer to "why is that actually the case" is that they just don't want to. They'd rather not have people bugging support for refunds all the time, and they'd rather have you buy more plat instead.

I heard for consoles there are additional fees stacked up for the products' prices and some don't even allow refunds at all, lest they get booted off the platform. I think this happened with Cyberpunk 2077 when the fiasco happened on their end, until they fixed most of their problems later.

On Steam/PC they would have an easier time processing refunds for sure (probably?), it happens more often there w/o a hitch.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Stafelund

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Stafelund said:

I heard for consoles there are additional fees stacked up for the products' prices and some don't even allow refunds at all, lest they get booted off the platform. I think this happened with Cyberpunk 2077 when the fiasco happened on their end, until they fixed most of their problems later.

On Steam/PC they would have an easier time processing refunds for sure (probably?), it happens more often there w/o a hitch.

Cyberpunk is on just a little bit of a different scale... Sony pulled it - which isn't something they do often  - over serious launch and performance issues affecting all of the people who bought it and they put it back up when it was fixed. Sony isn't gonna pull Warframe just because a few people want a refund for some digital items.

Edited September 1, 2023 by PublikDomain

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

6 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Again, if you can't afford it you don't have to be mad about it. If people want to support the game devs or simply want to buy unique cosmetics don't be a gatekeeper. Not everyone is as broke and as stupid as you.

Bud no one cares you got scamed out of your money because your brains the size of a grain of sand and you got caught in fomo do to the devs infinity growing greed do to tencent

People want the skins but the devs put them behind an inflated 90$ pay wall  do to them not caring about there fans 

People asked for a 4th pack without the plat and aya with only the cosmetics and the devs decided to add more platinum when thats not what we asked for because they don't care about what we want only how much they can get from us 

 

[XaelathRavenstorm]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Bud no one cares you got scamed out of your money because your brains the size of a grain of sand and you got caught in fomo do to the devs infinity growing greed do to tencent

People want the skins but the devs put them behind an inflated 90$ pay wall  do to them not caring about there fans 

People asked for a 4th pack without the plat and aya with only the cosmetics and the devs decided to add more platinum when thats not what we asked for because they don't care about what we want only how much they can get from us 

 

Bud no one cares if you can't afford these cosmetics. You just choose something else. I'm sure you'll find other choices in the shop that are more within your price range. Again, don't be a gate keeper. Let people enjoy what they want to buy. I want to support my favorite devs and I love the new accessories that I can use for my favorite frames that's a perfect combination already. The added plat is just a bonus.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

24 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Bud no one cares if you can't afford these cosmetics. You just choose something else. I'm sure you'll find other choices in the shop that are more within your price range. Again, don't be a gate keeper. Let people enjoy what they want to buy. I want to support my favorite devs and I love the new accessories that I can use for my favorite frames that's a perfect combination already. The added plat is just a bonus.

Bud no one cares that you got tricked into buying an over priced pack do to fomo  or how much you make and are now trying to play it off by thinking your better than everyone else (which your not just way more idiotic and desperate)

 

What I'm trying to do is not gate keeping its helping people to realize there favorite devs are being corrupted by tencent practices and greed and telling them show with your wallets you want the devs to see that there hurting everyone when they don't listen and inflated prices just to squeeze the money out of there loyal fans 

If you want to support them buy somthing else insted of the greedy pack telling them we don't approve of this and we don't want you to go through these practices which hurt your fans by blocking everything behind a pay wall  inflated by adding plat and aya making it hard for normal fans to buy it 

[(PSN)Spatium_Bosputus]

It's honestly sad, I really like the skins and I love supporting DE because I love their game but I can't be the only one seeing this becoming a harmful habit right..? Like doing something they know will upset the fans, get the money theeeen release something with it (which should've been with it to begin with, especially in this case) as an "apology" so it seems like it was a mistake and that they'll "never do it again".. idk this smells pretty fishy... I hope this doesn't become a bad habit for DE and they're being honest with us. I guess I'm just being paranoid from being burned in the past from other developers. I've been playing Warframe for 10 years and even after this fiasco I hope to have another great 10 years.

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

On 2023-08-30 at 2:08 PM, [DE]Megan said:

number one priority is addressing the community’s reaction to the Heirloom Collection.

But you didn't address it you put the most flimsy cheep corrupted bandaid over it and didn't address what people actually wanted  A 4TH PACK that has only cosmetics and no platinum or aya so people who only wanted the cosmetics can actually not pay 90 DOLLARS  to get them  greedy DEcent

[SilentBeowulf]

Okay, so I know that someone is going to be roasting my neck. But I want to say that, the changes that DE made, were changes that no one asked for. It is simple as that. There were so many people who asked for regal aya and platinum to be removed from the heirloom packs. But instead, they went and did the opposite of what people asked. Like seriously, there is a tiny minority of players that would have use for regal aya. New players have a way to get every prime frame eventually, although it might take a while since we don't have any specific prime resurgence rotations.

But my main point still is that there are so many players that already have most of the prime accessories that they want, like me. I'm missing one prime syandana that I would like to get (the syandana that came with Equinox Prime), but I can live on without it. DE has contradicted their own statement, when they said that they had listened the community, when clearly they didn't. Just make two packs: one for Frost heirloom skin and his halo thingy with NO regal aya or platinum to it and another one for Mag Heirloom skin and her halo thingy, without adding regal aya or platinum to it. Set the price to something like 20$/€ or maybe 25$/€, and voilá, you have successfully solved the biggest problem that this skin collection has. I would love to get Frost heirloom skin and the halo that come with it, but I'm not gonna put over 60€ for a pack that has useless things in it.

People here have been defending DE's decisions, but that is the worst part, because they are validating DE's way of handling things. This is not okay. DE will try this again and again, and if people keep on buying these things, they will do it in the future. And I repeat again, DE said that they have listened community's feedback, but this is the total polar opposite of listening to a feedback. More stuff was added, when community said to take away the useless stuff. I would like to buy one of the skins, since I have been playing for over 8 years or so, but I guess I will have to skip these skins, because this is just stupid.

There is my rant. Anyone who wants to roast my sweet bum and my neck, go ahead I don't care. Fight me as much as you want, I'm not changing my opinion on this piece of flaming garbage.

Edit: And I know that it would be scummy for those who already bought the pack, but my question is: What was DE thinking when they made the decision that they made? Like seriously. Were they so drunken that they thought that nobody would like to buy seperate skin bundles? They have always sold deluxe skins in forms of bundles, but you always had a choice of buying just the skin, and people have been loving that system. I especially love Protea's deluxe skin (It is so beautiful and in my opinion, it is so much better looking skin than either of heirloom skins). But yeah, just throwing that comment out there to those who want to keep on defending.

Edited September 1, 2023 by XeronThunderXX15

[Aky.Minowara]

5 minutes ago, XeronThunderXX15 said:

There were so many people who asked for regal aya and platinum to be removed from the heirloom packs. But instead, they went and did the opposite of what people asked. Like seriously, there is a tiny minority of players that would have use for regal aya. New players have a way to get every prime frame eventually, although it might take a while since we don't have any specific prime resurgence rotations.

I don't think anyone really need Regal Aya. Things, today may be a little different, but few years ago (5) when I start playing WF I got 2 prime frames (mission drop) in less than a month. 

But yeah, remove Regal Aya and Platinum from pack and we are golden. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

11 hours ago, Anmorata_Armitage said:

yes, the timing chain got out of sync and did something bad.  It didnt explode like an action movie.

Oh okay, glad you are alright lol 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

19 minutes ago, XeronThunderXX15 said:

Okay, so I know that someone is going to be roasting my neck. But I want to say that, the changes that DE made changes that no one asked for. It is simple as that. There were so many people who asked for regal aya and platinum to be removed from the heirloom packs. But instead, they went and did the opposite of what people asked. Like seriously, there is a tiny minority of players that would have use for regal aya. New players have a way to get every prime frame eventually, although it might take a while since we don't have any specific prime resurgence rotations.

But my main point still is that there are so many players that already have most of the prime accessories that they want, like me. I'm missing one prime syandana that I would like to get (the syandana that came with Equinox Prime), but I can live on without it. DE has contradicted their own statement, when they said that they had listened the community, when clearly they didn't. Just make two packs: one for Frost heirloom skin and his halo thingy with NO regal aya or platinum to it and another one for Mag Heirloom skin and her halo thingy, without adding regal aya or platinum to it. Set the price to something like 20$/€ or maybe 25$/€, and voilá, you have successfully solved the biggest problem that this skin collection has. I would love to get Frost heirloom skin and the halo that come with it, but I'm not gonna put over 60€ for a pack that has useless things in it.

People here have been defending DE's decisions, but that is the worst part, because they are validating DE's way of handling things. This is not okay. DE will try this again and again, and if people keep on buying these things, they will do it in the future. And I repeat again, DE said that they have listened community's feedback, but this is the total polar opposite of listening to a feedback. More stuff was added, when community said to take away the useless stuff. I would like to buy one of the skins, since I have been playing for over 8 years or so, but I guess I will have to skip these skins, because this is just stupid.

There is my rant. Anyone who wants to roast my sweet bum and my neck, go ahead I don't care. Fight me as much as you want, I'm not changing my opinion on this piece of flaming garbage.

58 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Well there unforgettable all right (for the wrong reasons) YOUR GREED

You haven't preservedanything but the fact your greed is the only thing you care about (Hopefully you dont make any more if there going to be like this)

 

Greedy DEcent Megan 

 

Gotta agree to all of this ^

[Bluedragon66]

16 hours ago, CrypticMonarch said:

Of course there is no denying that. But compared to most studios like… EA, they are still listening to the players and are still trying to be reasonable with us.

To be honest, DE feels like an innocent saintly child when compared to EA....

[(PSN)thowed]

Everyone trying to explain to DE what alot of people wanted is useless.  They know what we really want, they knew the packs were over priced, they know this added platinum is no where close to what was asked for.  They literally wanted to see what would fly and have no intentions of lowering price, selling separately or dropping the aya.  This adding platinum stunt was to try to save face as much as possible without caving.  They aren't innocent idiots like they're portraying.  Either forget it, buy it, quit the game or don't buy anything else because all this telling them will do no good at this point.

[Aky.Minowara]

16 minutes ago, Bluedragon66 said:

To be honest, DE feels like an innocent saintly child when compared to EA....

When I was 5 years old, my father teach me the most important lesson in life: 

"Never compare yourself with others, compare to you from yesterday and try to be better".

[Drachnyn]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb XeronThunderXX15:

Okay, so I know that someone is going to be roasting my neck. But I want to say that, the changes that DE made changes that no one asked for. It is simple as that. There were so many people who asked for regal aya and platinum to be removed from the heirloom packs. But instead, they went and did the opposite of what people asked. Like seriously, there is a tiny minority of players that would have use for regal aya. New players have a way to get every prime frame eventually, although it might take a while since we don't have any specific prime resurgence rotations.

But my main point still is that there are so many players that already have most of the prime accessories that they want, like me. I'm missing one prime syandana that I would like to get (the syandana that came with Equinox Prime), but I can live on without it. DE has contradicted their own statement, when they said that they had listened the community, when clearly they didn't. Just make two packs: one for Frost heirloom skin and his halo thingy with NO regal aya or platinum to it and another one for Mag Heirloom skin and her halo thingy, without adding regal aya or platinum to it. Set the price to something like 20$/€ or maybe 25$/€, and voilá, you have successfully solved the biggest problem that this skin collection has. I would love to get Frost heirloom skin and the halo that come with it, but I'm not gonna put over 60€ for a pack that has useless things in it.

People here have been defending DE's decisions, but that is the worst part, because they are validating DE's way of handling things. This is not okay. DE will try this again and again, and if people keep on buying these things, they will do it in the future. And I repeat again, DE said that they have listened community's feedback, but this is the total polar opposite of listening to a feedback. More stuff was added, when community said to take away the useless stuff. I would like to buy one of the skins, since I have been playing for over 8 years or so, but I guess I will have to skip these skins, because this is just stupid.

There is my rant. Anyone who wants to roast my sweet bum and my neck, go ahead I don't care. Fight me as much as you want, I'm not changing my opinion on this piece of flaming garbage.

They are trying to get away with the minimum amount of concessions possible. Just adding plat (which has no inherent value) is simply cheaper than unpacking the packs and potentially having to deal with some of the whales they have already successfully hunted wanting a partial refund to downgrade to a lower pack. I am not aware of them conceding on something twice but I sincerely hope this will be it.

You are absolutely right when you say they will try this again in the future. DE is not stupid. They know how to make money. Sales tactics like these are no accident, they are deliberate. Even having to walk them back is often not a surprise to these companies simply because they have the oppurtunity to not walk all of it back. They jumped a mile and tried to only walk a quarter of it back. Now they try to claim that everything is fine and that they're listening but we're still worse off than before.