PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[PollexMessier]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

B) Isn't it wonderful DE has that new EULA?

Like it's kind of spelled out.

Wow they really do just have it spelled out in their eula that they could fix this if they wanted to don't they? Great call out.

I don't really think there's any possible legal argument against DE making the lower priced unbloated packs ether. Hell that'd be less legally conspicuous that a surprise 75% off sale on the last month they're available.

[PublikDomain]

26 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

This wouldn't be an adjustment to the game, so it probably doesn't apply.

Adjusting pricing and exclusivity of content in the game isn't an adjustment to the game? How so?

24 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Wow they really do just have it spelled out in their eula that they could fix this if they wanted to don't they? Great call out.

I don't really think there's any possible legal argument against DE making the lower priced unbloated packs ether. Hell that'd be less legally conspicuous that a surprise 75% off sale on the last month they're available.

Really what they have spelled out is "you own nothing and we can do whatever we want you have no say or recourse". They can do whatever they want whenever they want. All this "but they might get sued" is just fantasy. Where were the lawsuits when Valkyr Gersemi and Saryn Orphid were brought back to the market in 2015? Where were the lawsuits when DE brought back the first Prime Unvaulting? Nowhere, because there were none.

Edited September 3, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Darkbring]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Adjusting pricing and exclusivity of content in the game isn't an adjustment to the game? How so?

 

 

 

 

No, you're right, I just read through the whole Virtual Goods and Digital Currency section of the EULA. They sure can do whatever they want. In my defence, however, they chose their words better than you did.

For anyone too lazy to look it up on their own, here's the relevant section of EULA

VIRTUAL GOODS AND GAME CURRENCY

We may offer you some cool features in our games for which you must pay. We need special permission to charge your payment method. These features are owned by us.

 

Spoiler

• Purchasing or Obtaining Virtual Goods and Game Currency. Subject to applicable foreign exchange control regulations in your jurisdiction, we may offer certain upgrades and options within our Games that you can buy with real world currency, including, but not limited to, in-game currency where permitted under applicable law (“GAME CURRENCY”), character skins, mounts and vehicles, digital cards, experience boosts, gear, and other customizations for your in-Game characters, and other such digital add-on items that may improve your Game experience in some way (“VIRTUAL GOODS”). Except as otherwise communicated to you within the functionality of the Game, Game Currency and Virtual Goods are not transferable from one Game to another. You may also be able to obtain certain Virtual Goods and Game Currency without making a purchase, such as an in-Game award. When you purchase Game Currency, Virtual Goods, or a Game itself (each, a “TRANSACTION”), your purchase will be made through the functionality available through the App Store or other platforms we make available to you. Prior to making a Transaction, you should make sure you fully understand the agreement that covers your Transaction, whether that agreement is an App Store Agreement or another payment platform agreement (like our WeGame Platform or a third-party payment processor’s terms). There may be limits to the quantity and number of times you can purchase Virtual Goods, Game Currency, or other aspects of your Transaction. For example, there may be a maximum amount of Game Currency you are able to hold (in-Game) or purchase at a given time, or a maximum number of Transactions you may make per day; these additional restrictions may be communicated to you via the functionality of the Services. We may, from time to time, modify, amend, or supplement our fees, billing methods, and terms applicable to Game Currency, Virtual Goods or to any purchases, and post those changes in this EULA, in separate terms and conditions or in other terms or agreements posted on the applicable website or as part of the Game or otherwise provided to you by us. Except where prohibited by law in your jurisdiction, such modifications, amendments, supplements, or terms shall be effective immediately upon posting and shall be incorporated by reference into this EULA. If any change is unacceptable to you, you may terminate the use of your Game Account at any time.
• Your License to Virtual Goods and Game Currency. Virtual Goods and Game Currency are digital items, and your use of them is governed by this EULA and the App Store Agreement(s). VIRTUAL GOODS AND GAME CURRENCY HAVE NO MONETARY VALUE AND CANNOT BE REDEEMED FOR CASH. VIRTUAL GOODS AND GAME CURRENCY ARE NON-TRANSFERABLE AND NON-TRADABLE, IN WHOLE OR PART, AND ARE NOT PROVIDED FOR INVESTMENT PURPOSES. Virtual Goods and Game Currency are licensed, not sold.Provided you comply with the terms of this EULA and the App Store Agreement(s), we grant you the following license: a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicensable limited right and license to use any Virtual Goods or Game Currency you gain access to, whether purchased or otherwise obtained, solely in connection with your use of the Game in question and within the Game (unless we otherwise communicate to you that you may use them in multiple Games) and for no other purpose. Unless expressly permitted by us in a specific Game, you may not trade any such Virtual Good or Game Currency with others. We may cancel, revoke, or otherwise prevent the use of Virtual Goods or Game Currency if we suspect any unauthorized or fraudulent activity, and/or to correct any erroneous application of any Virtual Goods or Game Currency to your Account.
• Changes to Game Currency and Virtual Goods. Except as otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we, in our sole discretion, may modify, substitute, replace, suspend, cancel, or eliminate any Game Currency or Virtual Goods, including your ability to access or use Game Currency or Virtual Goods, without notice or liability to you, such as if we need to temporarily suspend the Game to make updates, have an emergency that requires us to disable our Services, or if we need to ultimately shut a Game down for economic or other reasons due to a limited number of users continuing to make use of the online Service over time. YOU AGREE THAT YOU WON’T ASSERT OR BRING ANY CLAIM AGAINST US, OUR AFFILIATES, DIRECTORS, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, OR LICENSORS (THE “COMPANY PARTIES”) RELATING TO (A) A CLAIM THAT YOU HAVE A PROPRIETARY INTEREST IN ANY GAME CURRENCY OR VIRTUAL GOODS; OR (B) A CLAIM FOR AN ALLEGED MONETARY VALUE OF GAME CURRENCY OR VIRTUAL GOODS LOST UPON (I) DELETION OR SUSPENSION OF YOUR ACCOUNT, (II) ADJUSTMENTS TO THE GAME THAT RESULT IN THE VALUE OF VIRTUAL GOODS OR GAME CURRENCY CHANGING, OR (III) MODIFICATION, TERMINATION, OR EXPIRATION OF THIS EULA.

•  

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, Darkbring said:

DE spoke a bit too clearly on the matter to weasel their way out of this one. The language they used was pretty straightforward and to the point. And, white it may be possible to re-introduce the contents of the pack later on by saying that "the packs were exclusive, not the contents", it would still leave them open to being sued for deceptive marketing. This is not something you want in your legal history as a company.

Yet they are fine having a history of predatory monetization?

Got it 👌🏼

7 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Holy super double micchickens batman we've hit 69 pages of complaints with 1,700 replies about this horrible pack with its greedy tactics

(yes you missed the mark by 400 miles if you were a marksman you'd be the worst in the world) Im ganna say this again so it gets through clear when everyone gets back or reads this (NO ONE ASKED FOR MORE PLATINUM) what we did ask for was a 4th pack with only the cosmetics and skins without being artificially inflated by the addition of platinum and aya

 

 

This ^

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

Hoping you two open your eyes and realize that she is likely not the one responsible.

Not likely. What does sound more plausible however is that she gave the information as is, and her superiors made the decision to add more plat instead of releasing a cheaper, non-inflated bundle.

Wait, did I quote the wrong person?

Hold up

[PontifexPrimus1]

I am severely disappointed by the lack of communication from DE.

I would normally agree the team should be allowed some rest after an event like Tennocon, but this is not something that can wait. The good name and trust towards this company should be the foremost concern for them, and as soon as it becomes obvious that this is unacceptable to a lot of the community they should call in an emergency meeting and let the public know about that.

No details, of course, but more along the lines of "we not only heard you, we're actively working on it and will do our best to remedy the situation and restore trust in us". Right now it looks as if they are at best trying to make the most out of the sales that go through in the meantime before they'll lower the price / offer an alternate bundle, and at worst trying to sit it out, hoping the outrage will die down and the lost goodwill will be made up for in money gained (as always, short-term profits > long-term sustainability).

[Binket_]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)EazyT4RG3T said:

Do I allow myself to miss out due to a moral decision?

Hey folks.
You know what FOMO is?

That. It's that.
The two shoulder angels that can't come to an agreement.
Where you just give in, flip a coin and come to sudden choice-- just to shut them up.
The result of the coin flip doesn't matter, it's that break of focus that FOMO wants.
Clouding your judgement, hiding your senses.

If I may be so bold to tell ya "Eazy"? Don't buy it.
Even if you say "I will anyway", wait for a bit.
If you wait? DE is pressured more to change it for the better.
If DE changes it for the better? Everyone's a winner.
If everyone's a winner? The purchase becomes all the sweeter, knowing we'll all be giving thumbs up.

3 hours ago, Darkbring said:

They can't just promise that the packs will return later for several reasons, but the main one is that people already bought these under the premise of exclusivity.
So, if they decide to get rid of the FOMO, they would first have to refund everyone who purchased the packs, then re-release the packs with no FOMO exclusivity. Otherwise they open themselves to being sued.

Hmmm... I may have a POSSIBLE solution to that I just thought of.
Give the people who are purchased it a specialized "Apology" gift.

This is assuming it's THAT much of a big deal for "Exclusivity".
This way, those want to lord over others with the ego of it all can do so with a specialized version.
While in the process, everyone who wants the skin can have it without needing to worry about a timer ticking it's shelf life away.

Creating an alternative version of the skin itself that changes juuuuust enough to make it "legally distinct" for a lack of better term.
Using THAT as the new bundle's version. While letting the old skins be kept by those who have already bought the bundle.

• Slightly edit the current version's name to "Cherished Heirloom" to make this distinction known.
  • Preferably make it so only those with this OG version can link it. Preferably to reduce clutter when trying to link it.
• Colors can be mildly adjusted to make it noticeably different.
  • So long as the texture materials are the same? This should have no effect if you recolor it.
• The as-of-this-post versions therefore become the true exclusive versions. That way it satisfies both crowds.
  • An open statement saying "This is truly the best way to satisfy both crowds, as this maintains our promise to those who already purchased it" would do a LOT better than just "We added plat, now shut up."
• Also add a Noggle to give 'em This doesn't do much, but it's an extra bit that would probably take DE very little effort to fix up.

In the process, this ALSO gives them a chance to redo the bundle slightly for better pricing.
Hell, even as a bonus? You can make the "Cherished Heirloom" skins a constant thing in that case.
The OG bundle still exists, but the lesser one that comes around every year will also be a cheaper option.
Therefore DE can ALSO capitalize on the "Cherished Heirloom" skins for future versions.

Though, is this a flawless idea? Eh... I can probably find a few issues in it.
Is it probably the easiest way to remedy this WHOLE DEBACLE in one fell swoop with minimal effort on DE's part?
Yeah, it's exactly that.

Collectors get the exclusive they want, the whole community can enjoy the skins freely.
There's no FOMO involved, the pricing can be fixed.
Everyone's a winner.

3 hours ago, (XBOX)EazyT4RG3T said:

In the legal world there is a lot more room for interpretation than most people realize.

There's a reason the phrase "All Lawyers go to hell" exists.
It's not just because they're lawyers.
^{It's because they're almost always exceedingly cunning and not always for a good reason.}

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that snake in the Garden of Eden was just Pheonix's Wright Fursona.
^{And yes, that's a joke.}

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Hell I'll bet an employee at DE that was as disgusted by this as we were leaked it on purpose to try and prevent this.

The True Hero-Master of the Origin System.
I can always respect a fellow human who puts the good of people above selfish gain.

3 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I'm willing to bet their stretch into the mobile market is mostly an attempt to keep their player numbers from plummeting as they inevitably continue to make more scumbag decisions like this.

As someone who literally spending hours earlier looking for a new game to play versus actually playing Warframe?
It's horrifying how many games in the "MMORPG" category on Steam or just shoddy ports of the Mobile Gaming market.

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Who tf is gonna waste money trying to sue anyone over something that trivial?

You'd be surprised.
Some folks see it as a chance for easy money.
Others can see it as a way to take what they have and put some pressure on a company.
There's a damn good reason as to why I both revere the hell out of- and stand in awe of- the Legal System.

It's a scary thing, both for the wielder and it's target.

 

 

On that note...

Honestly folks? The cards DE has played are nothing short of foul.
I urge everyone to keep coming up with every small hint that they can do otherwise-- no matter HOW trivial.

The more we discuss about it and dig up possibilities? The more antsy they'll get.
It's either they make a statement or fix it... or we'll just keep looking for reasons to get them more paranoid.

Their hand can only play so many cards. We gotta pile to until...

• They keep playing to their hubris, getting crushed under it's weight.
• They escape a crushing ruin, humbled and they're forced to address the issue.

[Darkbring]

35 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Yet they are fine having a history of predatory monetization?

Got it 👌🏼

 

Don't put words in my mouth.

[Binket_]

20 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

Don't put words in my mouth.

Yeah, words usually go out of the mouth. Not in!

[PollexMessier]

25 minutes ago, Binket_ said:

Hmmm... I may have a POSSIBLE solution to that I just thought of.

Give the people who are purchased it a specialized "Apology" gift.

This is assuming it's THAT much of a big deal for "Exclusivity".
This way, those want to lord over others with the ego of it all can do so with a specialized version.
While in the process, everyone who wants the skin can have it without needing to worry about a timer ticking it's shelf life away.

Creating an alternative version of the skin itself that changes juuuuust enough to make it "legally distinct" for a lack of better term.
Using THAT as the new bundle's version. While letting the old skins be kept by those who have already bought the bundle.

• Slightly edit the current version's name to "Cherished Heirloom" to make this distinction known.
  • Preferably make it so only those with this OG version can link it. Preferably to reduce clutter when trying to link it.

This is an easy one. Voidshell Heirloom skins.

[Nira]

I find the best way to display my displeasure is to vote with my feet.

I've been playing Warframe since its founding days but I've uninstalled it this year, due in part to moves like this, as well as an increasing dislike for the creative direction the game is heading in.

Don't be pulled in by "but I've spent X amount of money on the game, I can't just leave". You totally can, and it actually feels quite liberating.

I was almost tempted to check back in but flicking through this topic has firmly convinced me not to.

[Binket_]

21 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

This is an easy one. Voidshell Heirloom skins.

Hmmmmmm... bit much for the moment, but I wouldn't be against the idea later in the future.

[ThisLoliIsDeadly]

Would be great if we actually get awesome skins because of it's unique changes to the warframe instead of meh skins that is made awesome because it won't ever be available again. imo, removing the regal aya and platinum which are just freebies in the bundle in favor of adding more features to the skins like unique changes to the warframe's abilities like certain deluxe skins does (nidus' phryke skin adding spiky thingies in his abilities) would be the better move instead of ya know.... adding more freebies to increase the value of the "bundle" instead of increasing the value of the "skin". It kind of feels like we were paying for expensive happy meals and being given extra ketchups as compensation for the excessive pricing.

[FlyingDice]

2 hours ago, Nira said:

I find the best way to display my displeasure is to vote with my feet.

I've been playing Warframe since its founding days but I've uninstalled it this year, due in part to moves like this, as well as an increasing dislike for the creative direction the game is heading in.

Don't be pulled in by "but I've spent X amount of money on the game, I can't just leave". You totally can, and it actually feels quite liberating.

I was almost tempted to check back in but flicking through this topic has firmly convinced me not to.

Agreed. 10 years, thousands of hours, thousands of dollars, but this was the last straw for me. They're completely out of touch and I have better things to spend my time on.

[Darkbring]

People on Reddit aren't happy either

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/165nml8/psa_heirloom_collection_platinum_changes_lessons/

 

[distal.op]

You know there's something that really amuses me when playing the game, I took Mag P out for a spin and I have a tennogen on her, and I mentally compared the tennogen prices with the heirloom skins, even if you removed the very, very deliberate bloat.

 

Well, we're all grown up enough for basic math, I suppose.

[Darkbring]

36 minutes ago, distal.op said:

You know there's something that really amuses me when playing the game, I took Mag P out for a spin and I have a tennogen on her, and I mentally compared the tennogen prices with the heirloom skins, even if you removed the very, very deliberate bloat.

 

Well, we're all grown up enough for basic math, I suppose.

The funniest thing to me is that even if you calculate the bloat via currency to be in the 85% range (by ignoring the discounts), and evaluate Signas' value at frame alt helmets' value in plat, Tennogen still comes out as a bit cheaper, which would actually be a somewhat honest price to ask for the skins. Even if they sold separate skin bundles for 15-20 bucks a pop, they would still be making A LOT of money.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Darkbring

[(PSN)Phoenixs_Ashes17]

I am grateful for the increase in Platinum.

These skins are beautiful and I hope y'all make more of them in the future.

[PublikDomain]

11 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

The funniest thing to me is that even if you calculate the bloat via currency to be in the 85% range (by ignoring the discounts), and evaluate Signas' value at frame alt helmets' value in plat, Tennogen still comes out as a bit cheaper.

But not by much, which is the dumb part. A regular Deluxe skin on its own is ~165p, which is almost bang on $10. Someone earlier worked out a $17.50 price point for these skins by taking out various bits and premium currencies, which is... drum roll please... ~325p! If DE added these skins to the market for 325p each with idk a 600p bundle for the pair then no one would bat an eye. Expensive, sure, but Nidus Phryke's collection is 375p so it ain't like that kind of pricing is abnormal and these are supposed to be "special". If you were hankering for some fresh plat and Regal Aya then the cash packs would still be a good deal, especially now that extra plat has been added, and if you'd already bought plat and Regal Aya and didn't need more then you'd have something to spend it on.

Edited September 3, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Tahocess321]

hace 24 minutos, PublikDomain dijo:

But not by much, which is the dumb part. A regular Deluxe skin on its own is ~165p, which is almost bang on $10. Someone earlier worked out a $17.50 price point for these skins by taking out various bits and premium currencies, which is... drum roll please... ~325p! If DE added these skins to the market for 325p each with idk a 600p bundle for the pair then no one would bat an eye. Expensive, sure, but Nidus Phryke's collection is 375p so it ain't like that kind of pricing is abnormal and these are supposed to be "special". If you were hankering for some fresh plat and Regal Aya then the cash packs would still be a good deal, especially now that extra plat has been added, and if you'd already bought plat and Regal Aya and didn't need more then you'd have something to spend it on.

sad reality is that veterans, which is for the most part the players these skins are aimed for, know how to make plat without having to spend a cent, and that wouldn't fill the pockets of big ol' papa Tencent

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

47 minutes ago, (PSN)Phoenixs_Ashes17 said:

I am grateful for the increase in Platinum.

These skins are beautiful and I hope y'all make more of them in the future.

Really hope they don't if there going to be like this inflated predatory crap pile they call a pack that's only 90 dollars because they decided to add platinum and regal aya to it to artificially inflated the price

[PublikDomain]

13 minutes ago, Tahocess321 said:

sad reality is that veterans, which is for the most part the players these skins are aimed for, know how to make plat without having to spend a cent, and that wouldn't fill the pockets of big ol' papa Tencent

All plat comes from a cash purchase at some point down the line, so someone has already spent that cent. But that's old money, yuck.

[Thunderlord_Zinogre]

Daily reminder that DE should be ashamed of themselves.

I spent my childhood wanting to voice act in Warframe, and now I feel I would be ashamed to be associated.

[(PSN)rexis12]

Remember if someone says that the Regal Aya and Platinum are 'Bonuses' that implies that each skin individually costs 35$.

 

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

So...... this is gonna be another one of those things that gets buried with no real meaningful change huh?

My heart goes out to those frost mains who havent got a good skin since 2017 with harka. (yes its been that long)


 

[(PSN)KamehamehaIo]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Justarius:

So...... this is gonna be another one of those things that gets buried with no real meaningful change huh?

My heart goes out to those frost mains who havent got a good skin since 2017 with harka. (yes its been that long)


 

He was one of my first frames. Honestly, I prefer my current fashion. I don't really like the Heirloom Skins, apart from the Signas.

 

My Frost is currently rocking a Frost Zastruga helmet (which is just the coolest in my opinion), the Hailstorm skin, the piercing Eye chest + shoulders, Imugi Prime Leg Plates, Protovyre Emergent Ephemera and the Jotunheim Syandana. All in some nice prime themed colors with some icy energy. I love him. And now DEncent sullied his reputation with the heirloom stuff smh

Poor Frost. Poor Mag.