Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework

[Krion112]

Some really odd decisions with this rework.

The general focus on corrosive seems bizarre. Like, dude's a water pirate, wouldn't impact or slash be more fitting damage types? Like, maybe corrosive as apart of his augments, but his main thing? Bizarre.

Majorly disappointed to see that Tempest Barrage is staying, when there's not much that mechanically separates it from Tentacle Swarm.
(ie, a targeted, radial, crowd control over time thing)

And Undertow is going?
Seriously? And Tempest Barrage is staying?
I actually used Undertow for something, usually to hide to let shields recharge or vaguely sneak around, especially to scope out Spy missions.
Why not make what it already is more ergonomic?
- Instead of dragging multiple enemies under, just suck in one at a time for a finisher-type attack?
- Allow holding Sprint to move the puddle significantly faster, but also drains energy faster
- Using Tidal Surge while in Undertow could cause a whirlpool that drags all nearby enemies in, also inflicting significant slash damage & status?
- Using Tentacle Swarm while in Undertow could drag multiple enemies under, and cause finisher attacks on them one by one?
- Could tie it more into a restorative state? Faster Shield Recharge while in it or something? Status Clearing?
- Let it sneak under laser gates?

Seriously, if anything Tempest Barrage is what deserves to be replaced.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Krion112

[Zabyr]

В 30.09.2023 в 04:17, (PSN)LoisGordils сказал:

Ohh! I just realized that. Thank you. Then I don't really get the whole issue with enemies being sequestered then...

She doesn’t exist, it’s a far-fetched excuse to remove "Undertow", that’s all. DE, instead of telling the truth that they don’t like that:
1) "Undertow" gives invulnerability and that it is very cheap.
2) "Undertow" deals monstrous damage to enemies who do not have armor;

Instead, they are talking nonsense that he is taking away enemies from allies.

I want to ask, don’t Sarina or Rino, with Ogris Kuva, who fly around the map and blow up everything around, take away enemies from their allies? Zaku players using "Grasp of Lohk" and killing enemies before you notice them are not taking away frags from your allies? This does not bother DE, but Hydroid or Grendel is a problem on a cosmic scale. Or the standard one - “We didn't intend it that way”.

 

В 30.09.2023 в 13:54, Zre6 сказал:

Something about this, I've noticed a lot of people really really hate ragdoll in this game for petty reasons like disrupting their personal game play flow in pubs, and it might be the reason they nerfed the old blast knockdown and ragdoll effect, which is why we can't have fun things.

In 6 years of playing Hydroid, I personally was told only 4 times that I was bothering them with my abilities. Everyone else didn't care. Although, some were glad that I played Hydroid.
Personally, Ragdoll didn’t piss me off, on the contrary, it’s cool :3

 

  

В 05.10.2023 в 07:00, (PSN)aarott сказал:

I wish Scott was still here, so he could save his boy from Pablo and preserve Zabyr's smile. 

At least in my Hydroid comic, he's still Lord of Water and not a barrel of acid. So that keeps me smiling, as well as many videos of what Hydroid was like.

 

  

В 10.10.2023 в 12:27, (PSN)aarott сказал:

If you think Hydroid is better with these changes, I agree

I would say he didn't get better, he became different and his tactical role changed from control to debuff and damage.

[Psianide73]

On 2023-10-11 at 11:31 PM, Krion112 said:

Some really odd decisions with this rework.

The general focus on corrosive seems bizarre. Like, dude's a water pirate, wouldn't impact or slash be more fitting damage types? Like, maybe corrosive as apart of his augments, but his main thing? Bizarre.

Majorly disappointed to see that Tempest Barrage is staying, when there's not much that mechanically separates it from Tentacle Swarm.
(ie, a targeted, radial, crowd control over time thing)

And Undertow is going?
Seriously? And Tempest Barrage is staying?
I actually used Undertow for something, usually to hide to let shields recharge or vaguely sneak around, especially to scope out Spy missions.
Why not make what it already is more ergonomic?
- Instead of dragging multiple enemies under, just suck in one at a time for a finisher-type attack?
- Allow holding Sprint to move the puddle significantly faster, but also drains energy faster
- Using Tidal Surge while in Undertow could cause a whirlpool that drags all nearby enemies in, also inflicting significant slash damage & status?
- Using Tentacle Swarm while in Undertow could drag multiple enemies under, and cause finisher attacks on them one by one?
- Could tie it more into a restorative state? Faster Shield Recharge while in it or something? Status Clearing?
- Let it sneak under laser gates?

Seriously, if anything Tempest Barrage is what deserves to be replaced.

Salt water is corrosive.

[Qriist]

31 minutes ago, Psianide73 said:

Salt water is corrosive.

Weird how few people know this.

[Albion_Vortigern]

They really did not address Tidal impunity or give us any confidence that tentacles actually kill their targets on their own now. Which even then tidal surge is STILL BEYOND BAD. So on top of pilfering possibly still being a glorified energy orb maker that you're going to have to still kill one enemy at a time with, for how its spread out and suspended. You're telling me not only does plunder give you mediocre armor, it's enemy density dependent with a 1500 cap, in a world who's current state of the game has 99% DR still leaving you open to just die randomly because you didn't shield gate a grazed bullet.  This rework is beyond mid.
you hyped up something this half baked? man this aint wet this dry, we're dying of thirst

Edited October 15, 2023 by Albion_Vortigern

[(XBOX)Djinisis]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:12 PM, HiFixx said:

The change to corrosive is meant to represent the corrosion of seawater.

Also this GIF isn’t the best choice to pick as the pirate is stabbing what looks to be a kraken’s tentacle. Hydroid literally has a pet kraken.

Other than that, the change to corrosive actually further strengthens his identity as a pirate, since seawater’s naturally corrosive. Plus pirates are usually surrounded by… seawater.

DE’s reasoning for making him corrosive is that salt water is “corrosive”, for wood and metal specifically and that takes months to decades to see some real damage. 

This does make sense for armor stripping but putting salt water on par with actual acid ... That's a bit of a stretch.
Tying a pirate's “identity” to acidic saltwater opposed to their leadership, ingenuity, marksmanship, and swordsmanship as an adventurer is even more of a stretch.

Let’s all pretend we shoot/melee the enemies our “pet” kraken is holding, and we don't hit a single tentacle. Regular hydroids tentacles are water, prime has a form, and you comparing a 4th ability to a companion instead of a tool just to criticize a gif is wild. But by all means please go out and look for or even create a gif where a pirate is using both a gun and sword that the forums interface will allow you to post.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

What I don’t understand is why the old kit can’t be allowed to stick around. Maybe have an “MK1” version of powers selectable and the new “better” powers be selectable too.

I understand that the other reworks were made to nerf other frames but Hydroid is the only case where I think they are trying something completely different and changing the frame “for the better”. I love the current Hydroid and according to everyone else, he wasn’t exactly bothering anyone with how overpowered he was but rather on how underperforming he was.

If I’m wrong about reworks only changing “strong” Warframes till now, let me know. It’s a pretty big assumption on my part and I’d like to get it right.

[KlutzMeister]

On 2023-09-28 at 10:37 AM, [DE]Juice said:

• A new ability added to Hydroid’s third ability slot.
• All enemies in range will have Corrosive Status Effects remove their armor permanently, increasing Hydroid’s armor and granting bonus Corrosive damage to weapons.
  • This ability is stronger based on the number of Corrosive Status Effects applied to the enemies affected by Plunder.
  • This means with a full stack of Corrosive Status, their Armor will be removed permanently.
• The Curative Undertow Augment Mod is being renamed Rousing Plunder and will cause Plunder to heal Hydroid and his allies within Affinity Range.

 

Plunder removes Armor based on Corrosive Status Effects on an enemy. It also provides an Armor and Damage Buff, tracked in the lower-right corner of the HUD.
 

Tentacle Swarm:

• Will now hold enemies in a steadier position, making it easier to eliminate enemies locked down by Tentacles.

 

Tentacle Swarm will now hold enemies still for easy targeting, rather than violently shaking them about.
 

We look forward to seeing a wave of Hydroids drowning their enemies across the Origin System with the Abyss of Dagath Update on October 18th!

Don’t forget to check out the other Dev Workshops for the Abyss of Dagath Update!

merge plunder effects into tentacle swarm

 

new 3rd ability : keelhaul

ten tentacles sprout from hydroid's back, grabbing up to 10 enemies, smacking them into other enemies, opening them up to finishers then pull them closer, keelhauled enemies used as meat-shields mitigating damage, finishers near a keelhauling hydroid causes blood in the water effect, buffing hydroid's melee with corrosive damage and forced procs.

 

augment Krill-haul: grabbed enemies are drained slowly of their nutrients, restoring hydroid and any remaining nutrients become void-krill who swim through any surface within affinity range (think equanox mend/maim type look.) to restore hydroid's pod of allies, finishers near a keelhauling hydroid causes feeding frenzy, a burst of health followed by a small amount of energy and health regen, effects extend to affinity range but are up to 3 times as potent at 10 meters around target, 2 times around 25 meters

On 2023-09-28 at 3:06 PM, (PSN)PickUpYourJelly said:

Instead of getting rid of puddle just included it in his movement when normal crouching like how Limbo can enter the Rift while dodging. Maybe have it open enemies to finishers when emerging.

while in this form keelhaul pulls in enemies with melee button opening them to finishers and finishers are replaced by  hydroid jumping out and dragging them down to the cold below

 

further more, while in this form: hydroid cannot capture interception targets, but can capture capture targets and revive fallen tenno. enemies who walk in or are pulled into puddroid will be half submerged and greatly slowed in movement and slightly in attack, but can fire into the puddle having a chance to damage or drain energy from hydroid.

 

crouch puddle replacement may be toggled in options or have a more complex button combo to trigger.

[Lancars]

So what was the point with allowing people to comment in here when you where planning to remove undertow and add plunder? Just seems like you didn't plan to listen to anyone here and just make the change.

[CapinPotato9711]

31 minutes ago, Lancars said:

So what was the point with allowing people to comment in here when you where planning to remove undertow and add plunder? Just seems like you didn't plan to listen to anyone here and just make the change.

we'll have to see what the devs do after release. theres allot of comments here, so theyre unlikely to check all of them, although it does make sence for them to at least check some of the comunity feedback.  

ive only seen a handfull of people who are actually glad undertows going, and most folk I see in game and in the forums genuanly want it to stay in some form.

only time will tell.  no point on going on any more tangents.

 

 

[Xsoskeleton]

sometimes im amazed people missed the point of plunder that corrosive, even if it offers 100% strip is still temporary strip, plunder makes it permanent and in exchange, giving u more damage number to hurt the enemy regardless of them having corro weakness or not.

No im not trying to side with anyone, im still annoyed undertow is going as previously it was made unusable due to previous rework GREATLY REDUCED its original radius in exchange for gimmick activation. Just remember DE nerfed undertow radius from 18m to like 4m back in update 21.4 Hydroid Revisit. I just wish DE at least ADMIT they did undertow dirty with previous rework and didnt act like hydroid never got rework ages ago.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Xsoskeleton

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Lancars said:

So what was the point with allowing people to comment in here when you where planning to remove undertow and add plunder? Just seems like you didn't plan to listen to anyone here and just make the change.

For the last few years, and maybe forever, Dev Workshops have been informational rather than consultational, with  pre-release changes being extremely rare, other than some error checking.  (Perhaps it's noteworthy that Dev Workshops are in the "News" section, rather than "Feedback" or an update feedback subforum.)  They probably want the content played before even considering dramatic revisions.

Which seems reasonable as long as they're prepared to act on overwhelming feedback post-release.  I think all you can do is start outlining your case to put in a feedback thread on Wednesday, and hope that a lot of people have the same opinion you do.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

53 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

Just remember DE nerfed undertow radius from 18m to like 4m back in update 21.4 Hydroid Revisit. I just wish DE at least ADMIT they did undertow dirty with previous rework and didnt act like hydroid never got rework ages ago.

Yup. I also would like them to admit their thought process or hindsight.

[[DE]Juice]

Tenno, with Abyss of Dagath now live and these changes at your fingertips, I would like to direct you to the official update notes for the final iteration of this content (including more a few late QOL additions, such as cancelling Tidal Surge while in airborne) and use our official Abyss of Dagath subforum to share your bugs and feedback. 

Thank you for your dedicated feedback on the issue, both in this thread and your continued feedback now that you have a chance to use Hydroid with his rework.