Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: Hydroid Rework

[Birdframe_Prime]

Eh. Reworking Hydroid around Corrosive is a far better play than I thought they’d go for.

His 3 adding personal survivability, making his armour strip permanent, and also adding damage to his weapons, also augmenting it makes it a team heal? Not bad, to be honest.

With his 4 now holding and not flailing, he has way better kill potential, his 2 has better CC for abusing that too, and his 1 now just being a solid 1 cast to initiate? Could be a lot worse for us.

I agree that bundling his puddle into Tidal Surge would have been good. Buuut… I don’t think the majority of Warframe players will even notice it’s gone.

(That being because the vast majority of Warframe players don’t play Hydroid to begin with.)

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 11 heures, (PSN)sitri_01 a dit :

This is the only acceptable way to bring the puddle back, upvotes people! 

Undertow literally doesn't have to be changed, just add it as the hold to cast on his 2. It was a very unique ability, maybe it is useless but no harm in incorporating this. Mag's 2 hold was literally only added because it was part of the cinematic and its useless too. Come on, let's do this, let's keep undertow!

Yes, I totally agree. Many Hydroid players liked Undertow a lot. I mostly use it only for survivability purposes, giving the time to cast CC abilities while invulnerable and then rise to kill when shields are full recharged. Now, we will need to focus on armor tanking, but without another kind of damage reduction, this change will not be enough. I'm really looking forward to see the reworked Hydroid ability stats, as his 1 was in great need of some more durration.

Another point is that Undertow used to buff Hydroid's 4th (x2 damage) : is this buff definetely lost or will Tentacle Swarm get some base damage buff (just like it's base damage was raised to the current full charged value) ?

Also, is Tidal Surge still going to cost 50 energy points ? In the videos on the Dev Workshop it still seems to cost 50 energy points : too much, in my opinion and makes the Augment mandatory.

Edited September 29, 2023 by (NSW)AegisFifi

[Stafelund]

With the upcoming reworks being implemented on the next month, does this mean it's Hydroid's turn for the prime resurgence? After the one from January last year I don't think I've seen him appear there since, and I have a bunch of regular Aya to spare for the relics.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Stafelund

[SilentMobius]

17 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

This change makes Hydroid’s play more fluid,

[(PSN)High_man21]

I feel that his second and third current habillity could habe been merged in one, and im dissapointed with his 4 habillity, i thought with the rework would be refreshing and novel but instead it is a weaker versión of vaubas bastille or nezha spires.

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

It's time for everyones favourite Railjack Captain to make a big splash and big waves.

 

 

YAAAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

[Demqnboii]

I think my biggest issue with this is the loss of fun. Sure, Hydroid is becoming a good frame, but this cost us an ability that was not useful, but fun to use. If Grendel got to keep his ball which is definitely not an ability you NEED to use at all, why couldn't we keep the puddle and just improve how it worked? Armor strip is a really good thing to have on frames, basically a free cheat button against strong enemies, but he feels less unique with this new abilty that's just a pull animation with water sounds.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

7 hours ago, Snackrat said:

Am I missing something? Hydroid's new 3 has details that seems redundant.

You missed the parts where the ability not only gives Hydroid bonus armor, but also adds corrosive damage to his weapons.

[TheGodofWiFi]

This rework is looking very promising so far, really looking forward to testing out the new Hydroid in the crucible of Steel Path.

[CapinPotato9711]

word of warning, this is another one of my undertow tangents, and if youve read the wiki hydroid page, youll be well familier with my ranting. so ye, youve been warned:

 

 

 

 

Ive mained hydroid for a while, and its great there finally reworking them. the new passive makes sence, and i feel it makes them an interesting CC armor strip frame.

not too happy with the 3 removal, its saved my hide on numerus ocations, and allows you to both cc enemys by nocking them over, and provides temp invuln when ragdoled by special enemys. the point where it says it hides enemys from allies is invallid since allies atacking the puddle spread damage to all enemys submerged. its also good for cumbersome reloads, since wepons can reload and charge underwater. also, as long as you cast it mid air, momentum still applies, so it still carries you forward at a decent pace. as for utility, it dosent just function as a slow invuln. the invisability it provides also allows you to stop and breath in large groups of enemys to find and target specific irritants hiding in the mass, such as arbi drones, eximus drones, and that one magnetic spamming eximus that always seems to disapear.

all the other changes i agree with and like, the 1 now has a use, the 2 is a good grouping now, the 4 is more functional, and the passive now has a gimick,  and best of all, i no longer need to applie 2 tau forged cast speed shards to cast at a reasonable speed. 

ide say the comunity pressure on removing the 3 influensed this choice greatly, but as someone who put time and effort into playing a space pirate, i have to say this, again.  its realy just to do with play style. the puddle makes hydroid exell at dealing with eleates such as mania and litches due to high durability and the capability to avoid lift (the puddle can activate even lifted), which usually would be a death sentence. and if you add the capablity they will get with this rework, then they will exell at this role even more since they can actually deal with armor without needing unaru. if the puddle were added as a tap hold function to one of the new abilitys, it would allow old mains of hydroid to use what they know along with the new abilityes, rather then an ability being removing simply because other players cant be bothered to experement with diferent ways of playing. 

 

ok last tangent over, im realy sorry ive kept doing this. as much as I agree the new plunder ability is good, undertow has saved me on several ocations, and hydroid will feel realy strange without it.

Edited September 30, 2023 by CapinPotato9711
remembered something

[PsionPhoenix]

Very nice changes, though I do believe having undertow and tidal surge be base movement for hydroid might have been a better way to go.

Hydroid’s roll could of been replaced with tidal surge while his crouch could of been replaced with undertow. Would of made him an amazing frame to play as, but I can’t wait to try the changes and see how they fair before I pass any judgement. Maybe consider adding undertow and tidal surge as base movement in the future if we ever get a hydroid 3.0 rework. :)

[PhreazerBurn]

This all sounds good...definitely making Hydroid feel like he's not a bundle of useless abilities. Jury is still out on if it will be strong, but its a solid rework.

Two caveats.

1. We are sure making a lot of reworked abilities use "better" damage types. Grendel from toxin to viral, Hydroid impact to corrosive, etc. Wouldn't it be more healthy to the game and offer more variety if instead we generally fixed bad damage types instead of having all frames just use the same 3-4 best ones? Why not make Impact disarm enemy weapons or something?

2. I like Tidal Surge being updated to be useful as a grouping tool...I'm just not sure it will be good enough to justify it being utilized that way. The clip shows 3 enemies all fairly close together. When the ability is used only 2 of them are grabbed (the ones that were hit directly by the 3ish meter wave). Now, I'd guess this is with zero ability range so its unclear whether it will grab from 20 or so meters once its packed with 265 range, but its something to consider. 

[ldegroodt115]

12 hours ago, Bossman252621 said:

Will the area of tempest barrage finally scale off range? The fact that ability range scales the explosion sizes rather than the barrage area has been one of my biggest issues since I picked him up because it really limits the potential crowd control of the ability.

Will the tentacle count on tentacle swarm scale off range or is it going to remain how it is now? Currently, building range leaves large gaps between tentacles, which allow enemies to casually walk through it unaffected.

Glad someone else noticed the Tempest Barrage range weirdness. It's not like the radius is small, and you can have 4? zones of Tempest Barrage active at once but its low duration combined with this makes locking things down pale in the way say, Vauban can set up and move on. The gaps in 4 aren't fun as well, either the # of tentacles or the AOE grab range should be increased when you mod on range.

Passive: ...first instance of Corrosive Status on an enemy remove 50% of their Armor rather than 26%. Not only will this make the first Corrosive Status stronger, but it also means Corrosion Status can reach 100% armor reduction with full stacks! - This is a fine passive, but, like, Corrosive not being able to full strip anymore I wish could be taken another look at.. 🤐

Removing charge mechanic: great change, this made his playstyle so clunky.

Undertow: bummer to see Undertow removed, especially now with passive-enhanced corrosive means it would actually be effective with Tempest Barrage full-stripping again... it was kind of a meme ability but very unique. I'm touched by the seeing others' support for keeping this, lol

Plunder looks OK. It's nice to get some armor for survive since Eximus units are immune to his CC, but aren't his shield stats fairly higher than his health? Surprised it didn't affect that.

Will Tentacle Swarm no longer do Magnetic damage+proc? It wasn't strong but it had a use in weakening shields, which this new Hydroid's entire kit has nothing for. Surprised Tidal Surge stayed. It looks cool but it still seems clunky to use as anything other than a movement ability. As someone who tried making a Hydroid build work post-Eximus but had so many little issues that it didn't feel fun or effective, I'm glad he's getting a rework :)

[Rathalio]

If Plunder was only giving armor and stripping enemies, ok it wouldn't so be great even though it would still be a decent ability. But it does more than, the damage buff for weapons is very welcome on Hydroid kit. You are now either suspending enemies in tentacles or pushing them face to the ground with your 1st ability. Then you have to use your weapons to kill them. Which definitely works well and makes sense with the kit overall.

Also the healing for anyone in affinity range is quite huge too as an augment.

Undertow sucked and never had any practical use other than sometimes dodging stuff which can also be dodged with Tidal surge. That would be lying to say it was more than that. Yes you could be invulnerable, but at the trade off of being useless if you used the ability.

[Colyeses]

Honestly, this doesn't look particularly interesting. This mostly appears to be a numbers thing with the abilities themselves having little to no relevance. It's also a shame that Undertow was axed while Tidal Surge was kept. It already looks messy in the gif, and that's in the open expanse of the ballroom simulacrum. It's borderline unusable on most tilesets due to how complex the level geometry is. It's probably going to stay a dud, and some corrosion isn't going to fix it.

Undertow had potential with some creative design, but we just get a set-it-and-forget-it stat booster, which is... Uninspired. I'd rather have seen it become a deployable wide AoE, in which Hydroid gets different abilities. 

I was kind of hyped for the rework, but I don't think this is going to make me play him. Seems like it's the same Hydroid, just corrosive now. And he lost Undertow. I'm sure he'll be a touch more viable now, but less interesting.

[Waeleto]

Can't believe people are hating on the hydroid rework and defending the PUDDLE out of everything, that garbage ability held hydroid back for YEARS now it's finally gone 
DE did what's best for hydroid his kit now is a lot better and has so much synergy, i'm sorry you lost your afk tool but this is for the best 

[NI7SUM]

 [DE] Pablo, para no tirar a la basura la animación del charco, podría tener una segunda pasiva en donde al quedar incapacitado(stun) o caer de una gran altura(mismo trigger de a pasiva de Rinho) se convierta en charco durante un muy, muy breve periodo de tiempo, agregando un iframe y una pequeña curación y recuperación de energía.

[DE] Pablo, to save the old puddle animation, can be added as a second passive, when hydroid becomes incapacitated(stunned) o falls from a great hight, becomes a puddle for a very very short time adding a iframe  & also can recover a little health and energy from it.

 

[(PSN)BillySunday72]

21 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

Plunder:

• A new ability added to Hydroid’s third ability slot.
• All enemies in range will have Corrosive Status Effects remove their armor permanently, INCREASING HYDROID'S ARMOR

 

You guys should stay on trend with a lot of the great (re)work(ing) you've done lately and have it give overguard instead of armor, it would scale a lot better into higher levels 

[FabiTheSnake]

I feel like removing undertow completely is a bit of a harsh thing to do, I know full well that it´s hard to make this ability work well, yet i think everyone will be somewhat missing it. 

An idea would be to make Undertow a faster, shorter ability. 
For example, increasing the range and letting Enemies sink slowly, being engulfed in a Geyser, draining them of Defensive abilities with the same funktion, giving a clear Indicator where Enemies are going, and leaving a window of oppertunity.

Additionally this is only a Temporary state, and the destruction of enemies would be much faster. After this hydroid could still plunder the Enemies defense and health, 
Giving him a reason to stay in action, since he got the increased Defense.

[Traumtulpe]

So we're just turning Hydroid into Saryn now?

Corrosive weapon damage buff? Check.

AoE Corrosive and Viral Procs? Check.

Ability to remove status effects? Check.

Terrible 4 that you Helminth over? Check.

How exactly is Corrosive damage "more fitting" for the water / pirate / octopus warframe? Since when is ocean water acidic? I guess you're just out of ideas, huh.

[(PSN)ShadowAvenger11]

This new Hydroid looks more efficient, also a lot more visually boring to play. The tentacles flailing enemies and becoming a puddle were things that I always loved from his design. As some have mentioned in other comments, I'd like the puddle to survive (as an augment or as a crouching mechanic) and you could keep the tentacle flail If you make a damage tentacle = damage enemy thing or even cooler damage kraken = damage all flailing enemies. 

[Frandan]

Please, make Hydroid's fourth ability a Tap/Hold mechanic, when hold he becomes the puddle while casting his ult, in other words, to hold 4 is to cast Tentacle Swarm AND Undertow at increased cost.
I wish that Undertow doesn't exist only in our hearts ❤️

Another suggestion is to keep the Kraken up in the middle of the puddle 🙃

Thank you for listening.

[Quinesis]

DONT REMOVE UNDERTOW PLEASE 😢 Just make his 2 a tap/hold ability with tidal surge/undertow, maybe atleast make the puddle as fast as Ivara's prowl, let manual reload while submerged, allow the use of equipment and loot pickup while submerged, make the casting speed afected by natural talent and such for fluidity, allow players to "pop out" hydroid's upper body out of the puddle while holding RMB becoming visible and vulnurable to shoot and on release submerging again, maybe dont even do any of that just please dont remove undertow. It's the main reason why me and other hydroid enjoyers still care about him. Please 🙏

[PsiWarp]

Plunder is a pirate-y term they used, but really it is a crowd Dehydration power that sucks in all the acidic seawater from nearby enemies to beef up Hydroid's defense, damage, and simultaneously makes said enemies permanently weaker depending on how wet they were.

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

How exactly is Corrosive damage "more fitting" for the water / pirate / octopus warframe? Since when is ocean water acidic? I guess you're just out of ideas, huh.

it isn't. but sea water being very saline causes metal to corrode faster.

there's no "water" status in the game. which is why yareli's 1 and 4 do cold damage.

I do not think this is an indication of running out of ideas. It is however an indication that other statuses in the game like magnetic and impact, which are both currently on hydroid, simply suck, and instead of fixing that they're just slapping on the better statuses on frames.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Skoomaseller
stop merging my fking replies