Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[bad4youLT]

I'm not fond of the idea of paying to skip Second Dream, Sacrifice and New War.

Those are big, meaningfull and emotional moments in entire game, hek they could be considered as best moments in entire game from story perspective.

DE if you're afraid of piling up to much work for new players who might be interested im your game for its latest content.

Than how about you just make all the important story quests accessable much earlier, with out needing to go through half the Star Chart and through faction reputation system.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

29 minutes ago, InoffensiveName2022 said:

The fact that they have been inflicting it on people in the past does not mean that it is a good idea for them to continue to do so.

Oh, ya, believe me, I am all for an opt out of The New War. My point was that everyone was told, in no uncertain terms, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Then they'll (potentially) do a 180 because it isn't convenient for THEM and their upcoming content? It's hypocritical, and ridiculous.

29 minutes ago, InoffensiveName2022 said:

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn
Screw it... this forum is not phone-friendly.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And I find it ever so humorous that DE pitched this in a devstream and had to react to live feedback telling them off. Woulda been nice to have that kind of transparency with the Heirloom packs.

Rebecca probably did it on the devstream because of the Heirloom Pack reception. And judging by this communities reaction:

She's dammed if she does, and dammed if she's dosent with community members. 

Personally I give her kudos for doing it in a live format where she receives instant feedback.

[Cerikus]

22 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

It seems to work just fine for many other GaaS games where one can purchase a high/max level character.

One can still enjoy the content.

As it is now, the newest content is locked behind a grind, how is giving another option through Plat a bad thing, beyond emotional complaints?

You say it is not a good thing, how, exactly, is it not a good thing?

Sure, it changes things by adding an option, more options are generally considered a positive.

I get that you and others don't like it, but that's just an opinion. 

It does, but imho I think Warframe has the proud badge of f2p done 100% right. This could blemish that. Maybe you didn't understand me. I am for skip. I am simply cautious about the skip costing platinum, if it does, how much, how will it work and how it should be communicated.

It can be VERY VERY easily misinterpreted if handled poorly. I like DE, but we know they sometimes have huge problems doing these things right (Prime Access, Prime resurgence, Heriloom collection, etc.) I don't want this game be "rebranded" from fair free to play to freemium. I want a skip, just read my other posts. I don't want them to ruin the reputation of this game.

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Rebecca probably did it on the devstream because of the Heirloom Pack reception. And judging by this communities reaction:

She's dammed if she does, and dammed if she's dosent with community members. 

Personally I give her kudos for doing it in a live format where she receives instant feedback.

Exactly. Rebecca is great for doing this and it was the best way to open a discussion about this very important topic.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Cerikus

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

(Duplicate Post.)

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn
Forum has mind of itz own.

[ABlindGuyPlays]

23 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Just another perspective.

While I strenuously disagree? I am glad you are being civil, and I am glad that perspective exists. As far as I'm aware nobody wants the game to fail or for newbies to walk in and on seeing the mountain climb nope out.

As a note for refrence: I gave up my then six year old account a couple months before new war dropped. This basically is for reasons that are best summed up as 'I lost a bet.' BVy that point we were in 'getting ready for new war' mode.. It took me.... a week to get to where the requirements for the new war were. 

This wasn't a week of eight hours a day grinding. This was a few hours here. A few hours there. All while I was in the process of home renovations. 

My username is not for decoration. I have severe vision issues so I can't 'no life' things for hours at a time. What vision I have goes out the window if I stare at a screen that long. 

It is not that hard of a hill to climb. You just can't do it in an instant. I'm not saying everyone can get there in a week. I'm not intending this to be 'get on my level scrubs.' Just

This isn't 'you must be in this game dedicating months of your life to even hope to see the new content.'

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

3 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

I'm not fond of the idea of paying to skip Second Dream, Sacrifice and New War.

Those are big, meaningfull and emotional moments in entire game, hek they could be considered as best moments in entire game from story perspective.

DE if you're afraid of piling up to much work for new players who might be interested im your game for its latest content.

Than how about you just make all the important story quests accessable much earlier, with out needing to go through half the Star Chart and through faction reputation system.

They are all also dated/old content. So it's not like these carry the same weight as they did when they first came out.

Not only that. We have players in this game that have zero f$%KS to give when it comes to this content.

Now these might be big, meaningful and emotional moments to YOU as a player but they also might not be to others. These are all subjective feelings. 

So let's stop painting every player with the same brush. What's meaningful to you and whats meaningful to others are entirely different topics.

So if some players don't want to experience it and get to the stuff they do care about without being gated to do so: Let them.

This has absolutely no bearing on the players that actually do want to experience it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, we ARE in the age of paying to NOT play: how many of us are familiar with the concept of "time saver bundles"? some game devs these days want to just skip ahead to the part where you pay up, one day we'll probably end up with pay-to-watch trailers for games that aren't even out yet; oh wait, that already exists if you want to watch them without ads anyway lol.

 if people want to skip the story, that's fine by me, it doesn't impact my personal experience of the game, but I do think it's kind of ludicrous as an idea. I just don't want those same people who skip the story to come on here all like "what the hell is going on in this universe?".. they will though, they'll appear in droves no doubt. ugh. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 4 minutos, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim dijo:

They are all also dated/old content. So it's not like these carry the same weight as they did when they first came out.

Not only that. We have players in this game that have zero f$%KS to give when it comes to this content.

That is the most logical point on the subject. The reason why DE is thinking about doing this is because of the low retention of new players and it is valid, but the problem is that they decided to monetize it.

hace 2 minutos, (PSN)robotwars7 dijo:

I just don't want those same people who skip the story to come on here all like "what the hell is going on in this universe?"

That's my biggest problem with this. Seeing noob people running around in circles looking to get carried away all the time.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Just now, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

.

 if people want to skip the story, that's fine by me, it doesn't impact my personal experience of the game, but I do think it's kind of ludicrous as an idea. I just don't want those same people who skip the story to come on here all like "what the hell is going on in this universe?".. they will though, they'll appear in droves no doubt. ugh. 

This can be summed up in one sentence:

"You can't fix stupid"

If players want to skip then by all means. But you will have people that do this and then openly complain that the game has no story. And Ultimately that's how you summarize that whole discussion.

 

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

3 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

That is the most logical point on the subject. The reason why DE is thinking about doing this is because of the low retention of new players and it is valid, but the problem is that they decided to monetize it.

But if you just discourage it, wouldn't that sort of sort the issue out? When pressing the "skip story button" you should probably be bombarded with warnings and reasons for not doing it. But if all of those reasons don't bother you, then it should be fine right.

I haven't really thought about this much but it sounds fair to me at the moment.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

That is the most logical point on the subject. The reason why DE is thinking about doing this is because of the low retention of new players and it is valid, but the problem is that they decided to monetize it.

FF14 and WoW do something similar. And I do believe it's also monetized. This is just an industry standard. DE will ultimately operate like this in many ways. 

At the same time: Overall there monetization is amoung the fairest in the industry.

Not only that if they get it wrong in the first iteration: They also fix it. When they do make mistakes in this realm, they always come back and fix it.

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

This can be summed up in one sentence:

"You can't fix stupid"

If players want to skip then by all means. But you will have people that do this and then openly complain that the game has no story. And Ultimately that's how you summarize that whole discussion.

 

Give them like a flower icon next to their profiles and accounts so you know who you're dealing with lol.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 7 minutos, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim dijo:

FF14 and WoW do something similar. And I do believe it's also monetized

You are talking about a pay to play games, the monetization is completely different and the game itself is completely different.

In addition, it is still pay to win in those games, since they give you equipment and level. 
Personally, I don't want to see someone mr1 with weapons and warframe built with mods,  rank 30, formas and potatoes just by paying a skip.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

1 minute ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

You are talking about a pay to play games, the monetization is completely different and the game itself is completely different.

As someone who has played both of those games, i disagree. The games are complacently different but the concept of story skips is exactly what DE wants to do. Saying that they are pay to play goes for the concept of warframe story skips, because those games are pay to play and have them, while warframe is free to play and does not.

So warframe has more of a reason to have it by that logic.

[Roble_Viejo]

In this Reddit Post DE is proposing to (and I quote) :
"Allow players to use Platinum to Buy a Pack that Unlocks & Completes
the replayable Quests required to access Whispers in the Walls"

I couldnt believe my eyes when I read it, but this is sadly very real
This is literally the definition of Pay to Win, through and through

If DE considers the Requisites problematic they should simply remove them
(while warning Players they are skipping relevant Plot Points) or they should
go back and revise the Grinding required to Complete those Quests

Making Players Pay for Story Content and be able
to skip Requisites is the same route Destiny took
We all know how well the P2W tactics go in F2P Games

Paying to Unlock and Complete content is NOT the way to go forward
Just let Players skip those Quests, dont make it a Monetization Tactic


 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Roble_Viejo

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)Itz2Cat said:

Give them like a flower icon next to their profiles and accounts so you know who you're dealing with lol.

I was going to suggest a helmet for their Operators and Drifters but I think that might be a bit on the nose 🤣

It's not like we can also supply then crayons for a snack either. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 8 minutos, (XBOX)Itz2Cat dijo:

As someone who has played both of those games, i disagree. The games are complacently different but the concept of story skips is exactly what DE wants to do. Saying that they are pay to play goes for the concept of warframe story skips, because those games are pay to play and have them, while warframe is free to play and does not.

So warframe has more of a reason to have it by that logic.

Tell that to every f2p game that has adopted this trend (Those games are half dead or dead). I repeat, I understand the point of the skip but the monetization doesn't make sense to me. 

Which games have these trends turned out well? Lost Ark is one and it is because they literally give you a skip pass every season for free.

Edited October 27, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

8 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

You are talking about a pay to play games, the monetization is completely different and the game itself is completely different.

In addition, it is still pay to win in those games, since they give you equipment and level. 
Personally, I don't want to see someone mr1 with weapons and warframe built with rank 30, formas and potatoes just by paying a skip.

I think this actually gives DE more of a reason to implement it since Warframe is not a P2P game.

And just because you skip to the most recent update means your going to get all these items. Outside Umbra, Nataruuk and other quest items:

You still need to know how to use it and build them. And your not going to ultimately have all the items to do so (Corrupted mods, Galvinized Mods, Arcanes).

You'd actually give players more incentive to actually play the game to get them.

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[PublikDomain]

33 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

That isn't the purpose of a skip, or at the very least it isn't DE's purpose. DE have been and still are working to make that experience better, but they are also aware of the reality of any content being a wall players will bounce off of. Even if the experience up to Whispers is perfect, some people will see "you have to play 100 hours" and leave without any other questions.

That is the point of the skip. Bringing in other points like "just make the experience better" are missing the point.

I think it's pretty relevant... Why does DE want brand new players to skip forward to the new content? Because they want veteran players to bring their friends into the game. And one of the hurdles those new invitees face is that it takes a while to get to the latest content where their friends are. So veterans either won't invite them because they don't want to babysit, or invitees won't stick around because it takes too long to get to the end. A story skip would fast forward them so they can play the new content together with their veteran friends. Sounds simple enough on paper.

But why can't veteran players bring their friends into the game and play the old content together? Why do veterans say "ok welcome to Warframe, let me know when you've played 100 hours so we can start playing together" in the first place? Why won't veterans go back and play old content? Because veterans get absolutely nothing for playing old content. Not only is there no reward for a veteran returning to play old content, most veterans can't play old content with new players because we're 10,000x too powerful. Playing early content means either robbing your friends of their experience, standing in a corner to watch and cheer them on, or gimping yourself as far as you can to fight enemies that are still going to be unengaging and few in numbers. The early game is just boring for a veteran player. That's why newbies get abandoned to figure it out themselves, or powerleveled by a vet to skip the boring part.

Instead of letting new players fast-forward to content they won't understand or be prepared for, it'd be better to turn those 100 hours into 10. Make the grind less grindy so newbies can get to the end while still learning the game, getting the core experience, and most importantly getting the gear they need to participate in the newest (and hardest) content. Make it so veterans can actually play with their newly invited friends without doing everything for them and ruining the experience or going bored and unrewarded. Newbies don't want to grind, veterans don't want to babysit. So reduce the grind and reduce the babysitting.

27 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

Rebecca probably did it on the devstream because of the Heirloom Pack reception. And judging by this communities reaction:

She's dammed if she does, and dammed if she's dosent with community members. 

Personally I give her kudos for doing it in a live format where she receives instant feedback.

I give her kudos as well. It's the way changes should be broached to the community. Honestly, with total transparency, as what felt like a real conversation. Not another "it would be unfair to be fair to the people we're being unfair to" or "we might think about it next time" like with Heirlooms or Prime Resurgence.

Edited October 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

Just now, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Tell that to every f2p game that has adopted this trend. I repeat, I understand the point of the skip but monetization doesn't make sense to me.

I don't get the concept of pay to skip as a player but i think its totally fair for DE to try and add it. Especially after specifically asking us for help with its implementation. I think that's quite commendable.

Players leave too quickly because they just want to play the new story/content. DE wants to give them that content so they stay and maybe pay for some things. So as long as you are warned of the consequences of skipping the story, i think its fine to be added.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Really not seeing the issue. Most arguments seem to be some flavor of a slippery slope argument.

If people wanna skip let them. Having a price to skip can serve as a discouragement to doing so.

Reb did mention that they are changing some stuff like junctions.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

Coming to this conclusion after hearing the very real concerns DE has with it shows me you are entirely unwilling to approach this conversation in good faith.

I didn't come to any conclusions. I'm just explaining why I don't like story skip, and how it plays into my wider concerns. I'm giving productive feedback and I even offered a solution to the problem. I think you're jumping to an overdramatic interpretation of things. I honestly have more faith in DE than most studios. 

[Cerikus]

18 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

While I strenuously disagree? I am glad you are being civil, and I am glad that perspective exists. As far as I'm aware nobody wants the game to fail or for newbies to walk in and on seeing the mountain climb nope out.

As a note for refrence: I gave up my then six year old account a couple months before new war dropped. This basically is for reasons that are best summed up as 'I lost a bet.' BVy that point we were in 'getting ready for new war' mode.. It took me.... a week to get to where the requirements for the new war were. 

This wasn't a week of eight hours a day grinding. This was a few hours here. A few hours there. All while I was in the process of home renovations. 

My username is not for decoration. I have severe vision issues so I can't 'no life' things for hours at a time. What vision I have goes out the window if I stare at a screen that long. 

It is not that hard of a hill to climb. You just can't do it in an instant. I'm not saying everyone can get there in a week. I'm not intending this to be 'get on my level scrubs.' Just

This isn't 'you must be in this game dedicating months of your life to even hope to see the new content.'

Sure, but you are missing one huge point that changes a lot. You had knowledge of 6 years. You knew how and where to go, you knew everything. Warframe is about knowledge and experience... 

Another story I have: About a year ago I got my ex to play Warframe with me. She enjoyed the game and I did all I could to make the experience for her as nice as possible. I offered to push her through, but she refused, because being pushed through was not nice time. It took her 112 hours at a very reasonable pace with my guidence to get to New war.

That is the typical Warframe experience and if you don't have guidance and you have no prior experience in the game it is more than 112 hours.

[RLanzinger]

to @Roble_Viejo,

Do a screen Capture, faster for everyone :

EDIT : Hide image in spoil since change in initial post ^^

Spoiler

Edited October 27, 2023 by RLanzinger