We need an augment slot

[Aruquae]

6 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

I'm an MR 6 Pre-Quills Hydroid only player that can function in level 150+ enemy Defense, Survival, Railjack, Disruption, Steel Path (When I had access to that) ect. content with no access to Rivens, Shards, Focus abilities, and other caveats Pre and Post Hydroid rework. We really don't need an augment slot.

Genuine question

Why all the information before the claim?

[Waeleto]

7 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

I'm an MR 6 Pre-Quills Hydroid only player that can function in level 150+ enemy Defense, Survival, Railjack, Disruption, Steel Path (When I had access to that) ect. content with no access to Rivens, Shards, Focus abilities, and other caveats Pre and Post Hydroid rework. We really don't need an augment slot.

Hydroid doesn't even need augments i'm mainly talking about many other warframes 

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, Waeleto said:

I'll prove it to you,
garuda, gyre, sevagoth, atlas, mirage, excalibur, frost, styanax, equinox, trinity, hildryn, khora, mag, nekros, oberon, rhino, volt and the list goes on
just because you listed the top tier warframes that could go into the sp with auto install and do great doesn't mean your argument is correct, the warframes i listed will ALWAYS have at least one augment in every build 

Have and need arent the same thing. None of those frames really need any of the augments, it's just that the augments for some of them are so damn strong, which really doesnt justify a dedicated augment slot.

And for Garuda and Oberon I have a really hard time finding an augment that I would honestly want to equip out of a sense of need even with an augment slot dedicated for it. But I'm guess Mirror augment for invulnerability and Phoenix. Both a total waste of capacity imo since neither of the frames need them. Garuda is already tanky enough and you have so many invulnerability windows already, and for Oberon... well we already can self res with the operator for free, with no CD tied to it nor does it have any opportunity cost in any build since it is a waybound so is there no matter which school you wanna use.

Most of the others just have very strong augments that should compete with regular mods. I think the only one out of the pack that might "need" augments is Trinity, but in her case it should be baseline parts in her kit and an augment slot wouldnt really help due to capacity costs anyway. Her kit needs a massive overhaul because the stats on her skills are so horrible to start with.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 18 minutos, SneakyErvin dijo:

Have and need arent the same thing. None of those frames really need any of the augments, it's just that the augments for some of them are so damn strong, which really doesnt justify a dedicated augment slot.

And for Garuda and Oberon I have a really hard time finding an augment that I would honestly want to equip out of a sense of need even with an augment slot dedicated for it. But I'm guess Mirror augment for invulnerability and Phoenix. Both a total waste of capacity imo since neither of the frames need them. Garuda is already tanky enough and you have so many invulnerability windows already, and for Oberon... well we already can self res with the operator for free, with no CD tied to it nor does it have any opportunity cost in any build since it is a waybound so is there no matter which school you wanna use.

Most of the others just have very strong augments that should compete with regular mods. I think the only one out of the pack that might "need" augments is Trinity, but in her case it should be baseline parts in her kit and an augment slot wouldnt really help due to capacity costs anyway. Her kit needs a massive overhaul because the stats on her skills are so horrible to start with.

Volt needs his 4 augment to survive (although making it part of his ability would be too strong) and equinox needs his 4 augment to use the entire kit unless you only want to stick with one version.
In the others I don't see a need to use an augment.

[(PSN)Boiled_Guts]

On 2023-11-05 at 10:19 AM, Waeleto said:

So many warframes will ALWAYS have at least one augment in their build which they will almost not function without or are very bad without it...

Maybe we just make these base-kit then? do we seriously need to give every war frame a free slot because some wont function without it?

[(PSN)Boiled_Guts]

22 hours ago, Waeleto said:

let's be honest are we really expecting them to fix every ability that needs fix and rework the augments that originally offered that fix ?

YES

[Waeleto]

42 minutes ago, (PSN)Boiled_Guts said:

Maybe we just make these base-kit then? do we seriously need to give every war frame a free slot because some wont function without it?

again like i said before that'd require DE to actually implement those functions in the base kit and rework the augments that originally did that function which i'll be very honest i'm not expecting to happen

[(PSN)Boiled_Guts]

50 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

again like i said before that'd require DE to actually implement those functions in the base kit and rework the augments that originally did that function which i'll be very honest i'm not expecting to happen

But you ARE expecting them to add a new slot specifically for augments? which would most likely be a similar workload due to having to re balance A LOT of mods to accommodate for that.  Bro

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-11-05 at 9:25 AM, Waeleto said:

I'll prove it to you,
garuda, gyre, sevagoth, atlas, mirage, excalibur, frost, styanax, equinox, trinity, hildryn, khora, mag, nekros, oberon, rhino, volt and the list goes on
just because you listed the top tier warframes that could go into the sp with auto install and do great doesn't mean your argument is correct, the warframes i listed will ALWAYS have at least one augment in every build 

The frames you just listed do not need their augments at all. Don't mistake "love to have it" with "need to have it". 

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

5 hours ago, Malikili said:

Genuine question

Why all the information before the claim?

I thought it would help clarify what "need" was since I play Warframe rather differently but still haven't really ran into problems after my many years in playing.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Turritopsis_Dohrnii

[Rakosta_Kai]

For my part, I am moreso amused at the split between the Vets and Relatively newer Tenno in this post and the opinions being put forward.

Newer player seem under the impression that the augments are mandatory and "band-aids"
Vets seem to harbor an opposite opinion. 

Not bashing either crowd per se. I do find the opinions put forth interesting though. 

As I recall, Steve's commentary on Augments were that they'd be awesome game changing abilities that came at the cost of an existing mod slot to make those modding decisions matter.

In other words, using an augment was supposed have the side-effect of limiting the build in some manner and encouraging choices in your modding.

It's also , incidentally, why we have multiple build configs.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Volt needs his 4 augment to survive

Electric shield is a thing.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Until the youtubers show the masses all the new broken builds, and you get a massive nerf across the board. 

All because you didn't know how to mod properly.

[Aruquae]

3 hours ago, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

I thought it would help clarify what "need" was since I play Warframe rather differently but still haven't really ran into problems after my many years in playing.

Ohhh I see I see, thanks for the clarification 

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, Corvid dijo:

Electric shield is a thing.

I think I had already talked to you about that, the electric shield is a terrible defense (it only covers you from frontal attacks that have no innate piercing and in this game you are always surrounded by enemies) but it is a good ability to improve the damage of weapons .

[Rakosta_Kai]

33 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I think I had already talked to you about that, the electric shield is a terrible defense (it only covers you from frontal attacks that have no innate piercing and in this game you are always surrounded by enemies) but it is a good ability to improve the damage of weapons .

Capacitance is awesome and is an augment I'd highly suggest slotting on Volt but it should cost a mod slot since you are basically slotting for it's Overshield and shield recharge delay reduction (which would be 2 mod slots on any other frame...).

Sorry to jump to the soul of your argument first.


On the matter of Electric Shield:
Fortunately, you have the options of casting more than one shield or picking the shield up and carrying it with you for it's duration making it one of the more appealing defensive options available given it's flexibility. Works great moving, in hallways, doorways, or room corners.

I could assert that I am almost never surrounded by enemies because I never let myself get surrounded by mobs because( I just don't make a habit of placing myself in those types of areas in a room) But, I think it's more important to remind that every tool simply isn't a fit for every task.
You shouldn't expect Electric Shield to be a better fit for that situation than the 6 second CC from Discharge—It's not Snow Globe.

Also, and this might just be me, I don't cast Discharge without a shield up as I've had some bad experiences with the cast time on Discharge.
 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

If anyone values my opinion, I guess here's my tee.

I think what we really need is another look at what should be an augment and what shouldn't.

I spend a lot of forma and time trying to make a build comfortable for me, and most times than not, these builds involve at least one augment...Some augments are too much of a quality improvement to ignore, others are literal bandaids. and others are too fun to ignore.

The Fun augments most of the time are excilus slots. like catapult, conductor, repair dispensary etc. so they already have their own slot. no problem there.

the bandaids shouldn't exist, that simple, these augments are too important to the Warframe like energy transfer, Iron shrapnel, they all shouldn't exist, they should be part of the ability itself, the trend of DE releasing band aid augments should stop....it just shows they're too lazy to mess with the original ability.

the Quality augments, are the normal ones, these are fine...for example viral tempest...this is shouldn't go to the excilus and shouldn't be part of the main ability, and it's value is high, so it's normal occupying a normal slot.

 

I think there should be a Grafting system in Warframe, where you can Graft an augment on an ability but you loose some of it's base stats.

for example Graft Iron shrapnel on Rhino, but loose 50% of it's base strength.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 5 horas, Rakosta_Kai dijo:

Capacitance is awesome and is an augment I'd highly suggest slotting on Volt but it should cost a mod slot since you are basically slotting for it's Overshield and shield recharge delay reduction (which would be 2 mod slots on any other frame...).

Sorry to jump to the soul of your argument first.


On the matter of Electric Shield:
Fortunately, you have the options of casting more than one shield or picking the shield up and carrying it with you for it's duration making it one of the more appealing defensive options available given it's flexibility. Works great moving, in hallways, doorways, or room corners.

I could assert that I am almost never surrounded by enemies because I never let myself get surrounded by mobs because( I just don't make a habit of placing myself in those types of areas in a room) But, I think it's more important to remind that every tool simply isn't a fit for every task.
You shouldn't expect Electric Shield to be a better fit for that situation than the 6 second CC from Discharge—It's not Snow Globe.

Also, and this might just be me, I don't cast Discharge without a shield up as I've had some bad experiences with the cast time on Discharge.
 

I'm not saying capacitance has to be part of the ability, I think it has to remain an augment, but it's Volt's main survival ability, I've never seen anyone not use it (except in eidolon builds) and that's because the electric shield is not a good defensive ability, it only grants frontal protection in a game where enemies come from everywhere (mainly in endless missions) and in large numbers makes it quite weak as a defense. I'm not saying it's a bad skill, on the contrary, it's a good skill that boosts weapon damage and is the main reason why it's used (even its boost focuses on improving damage), plus it's pretty boring and slow having to go from hallway to hallway putting up an electric shield so you don't get killed, ironic for a fast warframe (especially when the electric shield used to slow you down when you equipped it). I don't know why you mention Frost's snow globe, which by the way, his 4 has a CC of 8 seconds better than discharge because it affects eximus and bosses.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2023-11-05 at 3:49 PM, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Pull is too simple, why do I need an augment to pull in loot when Airbust can do that by default?

Eh?

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

On 2023-11-05 at 8:45 AM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

No. Heck no. We already have two (arcanes), plus focus school abilities and a subsume mechanic. 

Having it just to have it is ridiculous. Please stop asking guys.

Better idea would be making some of the weaker less desirable augments into exilus mods.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-11-06 at 3:39 AM, sunderthefirmament said:

Archon shards and more recent arcanes offer ways to beef up our stats without mods. 

Im pretty sure Archon shards were DE's response to the question of augment slots

 

On 2023-11-06 at 3:19 AM, Waeleto said:

I know that DE said no before but we REALLY need an augment slot and i'm tired of pretending that we don't
So many warframes will ALWAYS have at least one augment in their build which they will almost not function without or are very bad without it and tbh an augment slot is a win win situation for EVERYONE, we get an extra slot to optimize our builds even more and DE gets 20 platinum per warframe 

if anything Focus is becoming more easily obtainable and Operators not being good for normal content or straight up Annihilating it

Warframe focus trees seems a sound response

 Basically a skill tree with three branches 1 and 3 having three nodes. Branch 1 Helping the Warframe, Branch 3 helping the Operator.  Branch 2 has 1 or 2 nodes buffing both, like Stone Skin

Excal: Example B1, increase Melee attack speed. B3, Increase Operator Void sling

Mesa: Example B1, Increase projectile speed. B3-1, Increase Operator Fire rate. B3-2,Increase Operator Reload Speed

 

Some Nodes could possibly add something to save or de-pressure mod space (Calibans passive barely working to allow shield delay mods to fit)

Edited November 7, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Reitrix]

16 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Have and need arent the same thing. None of those frames really need any of the augments, it's just that the augments for some of them are so damn strong, which really doesnt justify a dedicated augment slot.

Kind of right, kind of wrong. 

All Augments basically fall into one of 3 categeries. 
- Fun/QoL
- Raw Power
- Bandaid

The Exilus slots mechanics are the answer here, all DE would need to do is add a slot (or slots) that works pretty much exactly like that but only accepts specific Augments denoted by a fancy Exilus style icon. 

As a few examples:
- Fused Resorvoir is purely QoL. Its sole purpose is to save you a couple of clicks. 
- Thrall Pact is a prime example of a raw power Augment. 
- Mend & Maim is just a bandaid. The poster child of "Why the heck isnt this the baseline function?!"

We can see the sheer difference in what each augment provides to their relevant frame even with this small exmaple, yet all cost the same capacity and eat a mod slot. 
Are you really going to argue that Fused Resorvoir deserves to take the place of any regular mod? Just about any Exilus provides more value to Wisp than the Augment does.

If we had a plain "Augment Slot" that could hold anything currently designated as an Augment, Yes that'd be terrible and contribute to plain old powercreep. 

However, If DE did a short pass over all the Augments and designated the Bandaid/QoL ones with the Augment Slot flag while denying that same flag to any Augment that is just a raw power increase that measures up to the mod slot and capacity it consumes we would have the ability to use these QoL/bandaid Augments without neutering a build or powercreeping. 

This kind of slot could actually be utilised to make minor reworks to older frames (Limbo and the community split on whether hes fine or needs a rework comes to mind)
Essentially allowing DE to tweak the kits on older frames while allowing existing players who like how an ability currently functions to make a choice. 
And all it'd take is making a mod and flagging it for an augment slot.
 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

Volt needs his 4 augment to survive (although making it part of his ability would be too strong) and equinox needs his 4 augment to use the entire kit unless you only want to stick with one version.
In the others I don't see a need to use an augment.

He doesnt need it since he can benefit from regular shields just the same as anyone else by keeping the gate up in other ways through modding. It is just that capacitance is so good that there is no reason to not run it instead of regular shield focused mods. And while Enox need the augment for a specific playstyle she doesnt need it to perform well. It is like saying you need Duality, but you only need it for one type of playstyle and the frame does fine without those playstyles. Though in the case of Enox 4 augment it would be more appropriate to just make it part of the skill in a touch up of the kit and change the augment into something else based on which form you are in.

2 hours ago, Reitrix said:

Kind of right, kind of wrong. 

All Augments basically fall into one of 3 categeries. 
- Fun/QoL
- Raw Power
- Bandaid

The Exilus slots mechanics are the answer here, all DE would need to do is add a slot (or slots) that works pretty much exactly like that but only accepts specific Augments denoted by a fancy Exilus style icon. 

As a few examples:
- Fused Resorvoir is purely QoL. Its sole purpose is to save you a couple of clicks. 
- Thrall Pact is a prime example of a raw power Augment. 
- Mend & Maim is just a bandaid. The poster child of "Why the heck isnt this the baseline function?!"

We can see the sheer difference in what each augment provides to their relevant frame even with this small exmaple, yet all cost the same capacity and eat a mod slot. 
Are you really going to argue that Fused Resorvoir deserves to take the place of any regular mod? Just about any Exilus provides more value to Wisp than the Augment does.

If we had a plain "Augment Slot" that could hold anything currently designated as an Augment, Yes that'd be terrible and contribute to plain old powercreep. 

However, If DE did a short pass over all the Augments and designated the Bandaid/QoL ones with the Augment Slot flag while denying that same flag to any Augment that is just a raw power increase that measures up to the mod slot and capacity it consumes we would have the ability to use these QoL/bandaid Augments without neutering a build or powercreeping. 

This kind of slot could actually be utilised to make minor reworks to older frames (Limbo and the community split on whether hes fine or needs a rework comes to mind)
Essentially allowing DE to tweak the kits on older frames while allowing existing players who like how an ability currently functions to make a choice. 
And all it'd take is making a mod and flagging it for an augment slot.
 

I'd rather see them make those bandaids part of the kit. Unless of course you think a dedicated bandaid slot should be fully free when it comes to capacity costs etc. If not the slot wouldnt really solve much since we only have a specific amount of capacity, which is mostly always maxed through modding in general.

Regarding Fused Reservoirs. Yes it does deserve the spot of a regular mod considering what it does. It is effectively a massive cast speed buff to the frame since she casts 3 seperate skills in a single cast instead. Which does alot for her overall, since she suddenly goes from a frame mostly suited for holding points to a very mobile frame that is no longer restricted if she wants to reposition. No need to worry about having to go back to rebuff since you can just dump 3 new motes instantly wherever you are and so on.

[Karyst]

21 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Hydroid doesn't even need augments i'm mainly talking about many other warframes 

Doesn't need but +100% drop chance is how one gets out of Fortuna.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 6 horas, Tiltskillet dijo:

Eh?

(Why do I need to slot in Greedy Pull instead of it being a baseline feature when an ability like Airburst pulls in loot and breaks containers simultaneously without one)
Yes, I know Mag has an 8 meter vacuum + our pets, but it feels weird having an augment for just, pulling in loot.