New Archon Shards Are a TERRIBLE Idea

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Devstream 175 introduces 3 new archon shard colors, formed by combining two archon shards. This MASSIVELY exacerbates the issue already present of shards being extremely time limited. Now you need up to 10 shards per frame. To add insult to injury, you get tauforged versions only by combining tauforged shards.

Edited November 24, 2023 by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom

[Hobie-wan]

No frame ever needed shards. Only players that are trying to go for level cap stuff need them. Are they fun to mess with? Sure, but also very few if any players are trying to get a full compliment of shards on all 54 frames.

[Cuboon]

By all means, this is awkward for its fine print, but that's exactly what you'd expect DE to resolve in the long run, now don't you? it also a question if the new archon shards have a synergy with a Warframe that can't be even remotely replicated with the other 54 (including Qorvex) by the time they're released.

[Bunni]

7 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

No frame ever needed shards. Only players that are trying to go for level cap stuff need them. Are they fun to mess with? Sure, but also very few if any players are trying to get a full compliment of shards on all 54 frames.

No frame ever needed a reactor. Only players that are trying to go for level cap stuff need them. Are they fun to mess with? Sure, but also very few if any players are trying to get a full compliment of shards on all 54 frames.

[(PSN)SABRETOOTH1971]

oh god not this complaint again.

[Hobie-wan]

@Bunni

Yes, equating things you can only get 2 a week and need 5 basic ones to fill each frame is definitely equivalent to an item that is only needed once per frame and has multiple ways to acquire them.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Hobie-wan

[Numerounius]

6 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

No frame ever needed shards. Only players that are trying to go for level cap stuff need them. Are they fun to mess with? Sure, but also very few if any players are trying to get a full compliment of shards on all 54 frames.

Yes all frames can suffice without needing shards(Or Aura mod, Or reactor or exilus slots or arcane slots). But after tinkering around with some builds and shards used in them, holy does it make a massive difference in the builds that I play more so than other elements that we enough supply of. I only have a dozen and the amount I have so far can barely keep up with the tinkering but for others that are trying to get a full roster complete kit I can see how this is a major issue.

 

55 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Devstream 175 introduces 3 new archon shard colors, formed by combining two archon shards. This MASSIVELY exacerbates the issue already present of shards being extremely time limited. Now you need up to 10 shards per frame. To add insult to injury, you get tauforged versions only by combining tauforged shards.

Its more insulting that they still aren't budging on the 50% Bile Removal cost. I get they want to make them semi-permanent but come on this is insulting that removing an entire shard set is this bad.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, Numerounius said:

Its more insulting that they still aren't budging on the 50% Bile Removal cost. I get they want to make them semi-permanent but come on this is insulting that removing an entire shard set is this bad.

Really reinforcing the entire concept of "Don't touch this system for X amount of time first" with this one. The people most utilizing the system they are expanding being punished the most is the most DE thing ever.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Voltage

[Waeleto]

By saying extra they're assuming we have more than 5 shards per 54-55 warframes which is a joke tbh

[Bunni]

14 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

@Bunni

Yes, equating things you can only get 2 a week and need 5 basic ones to fill each frame is definitely equivalent to an item that is only needed once per frame and has multiple ways to acquire them.

That's a point in favor of my argument though, because you can play without either and one is substantially harder to obtain for no reason. Furthermore playing with them, in this power fantasy ninja game designed around building your frame to be as strong as possible, is much more fun.

Saying "You don't need them" isn't a proper defense because you don't need arcanes, exilus slots, reactors, catalysts, or anything to play the game well, nevertheless keeping those accessible and not timegated to infinity makes the game more fun and makes you more willing to experiment. 

I 

[KIREEK]

Well it depends, maybe you don't really need them, we need to see the benefits 1st, if the benefits are "meh" then you're right i don't need them, if they are decent then i need them, not because i need them to beat anything in the game, i just enjoy the power fantasy and making the game look silly.

[Qriist]

7 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Well it depends, maybe you don't really need them, we need to see the benefits 1st, if the benefits are "meh" then you're right i don't need them, if they are decent then i need them, not because i need them to beat anything in the game, i just enjoy the power fantasy and making the game look silly.

One of the placeholder perks is a corrosive stack limit break. That's incredibly decent.

[Hobie-wan]

2 hours ago, Waeleto said:

By saying extra they're assuming we have more than 5 shards per 54-55 warframes which is a joke tbh

Only the most (worryingly) obsessed collector is actively trying to put 5 shards in every single frame and makes an effort to play all of those frames regularly. And I say this as someone who has kept all the normal frames on top of the primes, leveled every item, and collected every mod, that even I stopped pursuing every possible shard a while back. I have them in the frames I regularly play and  a few are tauforged, some are not.

Collect stuff and have fun, but obsessing about having mathmatically perfect numbers on every single item isn't healthy. It's like people buying and rolling rivens until their eyes bleed day after day and then complaining they're not having fun because they've turned it into work.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

12 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

Only the most (worryingly) obsessed collector is actively trying to put 5 shards in every single frame and makes an effort to play all of those frames regularly. And I say this as someone who has kept all the normal frames on top of the primes, leveled every item, and collected every mod, that even I stopped pursuing every possible shard a while back. I have them in the frames I regularly play and  a few are tauforged, some are not.

Collect stuff and have fun, but obsessing about having mathmatically perfect numbers on every single item isn't healthy. It's like people buying and rolling rivens until their eyes bleed day after day and then complaining they're not having fun because they've turned it into work.

[VibingCat]

Warframe players when they realise they can't finish the game in a week:

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

Still don't know why people keep trying to turn a system that is long-term into something short-term. You're not meant to fill out every frame within a short amount of time.

[Arbalest2]

I like it since it makes an already terrible system worse for everyone that uses it. Everyone opting out just misses some %s they don't need. Great game design.

The option to buy these shards in the market and pay plat to forgo the bile cost is probably not too far off since it seems more about punishing players than rewarding them.

[Zaghyr]

Nice of you to conveniently leave out that DE said there will be a new way to gain normal and combined Archon shards.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Bile is too expensive, rotate the resource pool needed every 24hrs. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by (XBOX)K1jker

[Probably_Asleep]

I'm excited to see what effects are going to be added. I have four Mag Primes (I only play as Mag/Prime), and I'm reaching 5 Tauforged on all four (2 TF away). I've got an All-Rounder, Tank, Speed, and Damage model.

There are still some tweaks I'm experimenting with, but for the most part I've settled into my four builds, but this leaves me with a problem: I don't want to miss out on an Archon Hunt, but what will I do when I have no more use for shards? Get more Mag Primes and make more builds? Save them up?

Neither solution seems that appealing to me. My All-Rounder alone can do all the content; the three specialists just let me do it easier. What would my 5th+ build(s) be? But then again what would be the point of getting and not using Tauforged? It seems I've made it to a problem of overabundance.

 

So this development is actually very thrilling for my situation! Elemental bonuses might mean I could make Faction-specific builds. And what if they make effects like increased Vacuum distance or +25% Resources? Then I could make a Farming build.

My excitement might die down when they actually reveal what the bonuses are, but at the moment I'm looking forward to the possibilities.

[Synitare]

17 hours ago, Zaghyr said:

Nice of you to conveniently leave out that DE said there will be a new way to gain normal and combined Archon shards.

They didn't provide any details, and given how we're a year and some change since the introduction of Archon shards and they're still the most time-gated content in the game, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that this "new way to gain shards" is also very likely to be weekly-limited.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Alright, that's it! I've had enough about people complaining about archon shards!

Reactors, Catalysers & Forma are absolutely essential to warframe & weapon basic customization.

Arcanes are non-essential extras that benefit your frame or weapons.
What constitutes 95% of your build, is the mods, not the arcanes, that is why you need the reactors and Forma.
You can make a strong, complete build without arcanes, not without mods, reactors, and Forma.

Spoiler

And for whoever comes in like "actually" when it comes to the topic of arcanes;

Most old arcanes are far from relevant for builds, so they indeed are "purely optional" with some technical outliners like Energize, as back then, energy economy wasn't as good as it is now. We had more weapon rof / attack speed, immunity to one status, critical chance, some other miscellaneous things like parkour velocity or becoming invisible... but take a look at arcanes since AoZ onwards; now they can replace a whole mod slot in your build.
They don't "seem" so optional anymore because they provide something that directly affects the important Warframe stats like mods do.

Molt Augmented, Molt Efficiency, Blessing, Steadfast just to mention the most commonly used now, do work as mods.
Think about it; if all the frame arcanes that have come out since AoZ and Energize didn't exist, do you think many would bother with arcanes at all?
The introduction of these was a step towards min-maxxing for harder content, and has allowed for certain builds possible to pull off when couldn't before.
Like full strip Pillage without sacrificing too many mods for strength.

And then, there's archon shards.
The ultimate form of perfecting a frame, after arcanes, and after better mod variants.
You don't need them to make a working frame build that can do anything the frame is meant to.
You want them to finally fix a problem a frame had, or tackle the limitations / tough decisions you ought make when picking what mods to put in.
It's exactly the same thing as rivens. You don't need a riven for a weapon, you desire it because you want it to be the best it can be.

And you know what?

En 25/11/2023 a las 0:33, Hobie-wan dijo:

Only the most (worryingly inspiring) obsessed dedicated collector is actively trying to put 5 shards in every single frame and makes an effort to play all of those frames regularly.

I am this guy.

I want to fully Tauforge my frames to refine my builds, and I've already seen the stats for both Emerald and Topaz shards, so I already know what can be done with them.
But I don't need to. I just want to.
So far I have shards on my favourite frames and few more, not even 5/5 on all of them, mostly 2/3, the amount I know is necessary for the quality I want to improve upon.

There is a basic, then an advanced, and finally an ultimate degree of frame customization. Mods, arcanes, shards.
Yes your frame won't be as good without the shards, and after you've put them on if you take them out it'll be worse, who could have foreseen that removing an upgrade would make you worse. That's what happens when you get used to having that much power.

You don't "need up to 10 archon shards per frame", don't be ridiculous.
And if what Zaghyr has said is true, (despite rewatching the DevStream this part went totally over my head) even if weekly, even if a max of just 1 more per week, 3 archon shards a week? That's insanely good!

My final message; don't fixate so much on this system, it'll be your opprobrium and make you forget that they are meant to be just something extra.

[Synitare]

On 2023-11-25 at 8:20 PM, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

My final message; don't fixate so much on this system, it'll be your opprobrium and make you forget that they are meant to be just something extra.

It's a new system specifically aimed at long-time players. Why in the world do you think we're not going to focus on it? It's literally the only way for us to experience any sense of progression.

You not seeing an issue with it does not mean that there is no issue with it. You might be OK with being pointlessly arbitrarily gated from new content. Many of us clearly are not.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 12 horas, Synitare dijo:

It's a new system specifically aimed at long-time players. Why in the world do you think we're not going to focus on it?
It's literally the only way for us to experience any sense of progression.

You not seeing an issue with it does not mean that there is no issue with it.
You might be OK with being pointlessly arbitrarily gated from new content. Many of us clearly are not.

What I said was not to hyper fixate on something that is meant for very picky / detail-type / final level of customization, and is not to be hoarded like other upgrades or it'll drive you insane. Many of us are long time players, that doesn't mean that "our" "sense of progression", is only getting more power.
For you it might be, that's totally fine and I understand it, even largely share that feeling, but to an extent.

I am okay with only getting 2 shards, 3 in the near future, which can be up to 3 of the same type a week, and also one of the new ones.
That'll be 4 a week, and the new ones are hyper specific, so they aren't going to see that much use outside of a few frames, just like Archon mods, hence why I'm far from concerned about having to spend the shards I've already owned on them.

But back to my point, this (normal shards) is a guaranteed to obtain, free of cost upgrade with direct effect that doesn't take a mod slot, effectively a mod that takes no space but can only be on a frame at a time. And they aren't exactly hardly accesible, or "aimed for long time players" when MR10+ Tenno are doing archon hunts leeching with Revenant Primes they buy for 40 plat or whatever, even less now that they made archons easy to wack with many more weapons.
That is the exact reason the amount we can get is timely limited, otherwise everyone would get the amount they are truly going to use in month or two, and then we'd be back on square one with people complaining about content droughts.

 

Let me explain to you, the paradoxical scale of this.
Since you've said long time players I presume you'll be Mr20+ or even above me at Legendary Rank something.
Someone who just needs to complete The New War can access these hunts. They'll probably be happy progressing through the game and doing this as one of their weekly activities along other tasks / adventures so on, so forth, they'll be perfectly fine with it being timed gated because they probably have more things to experience.

US, who have already done pretty much anything that came before, get this given as our new content, but being weekly limited is annoying, because we've already done other things and this is the only one that provides us with something new. But just because you have nothing to do that provides you with something as interesting as this, doesn't mean you should have more regular access than the next Tenno.

Your impatience and continuous playing of the game don't justify getting more power at the same pace as you used to.
It always has been an upwards curve, not a flatline.

 

The only issue with the Archon shards is that some very vocal people want every new thing to be as easily and quickly farmeable as the rest of the game, regardless of how impactful it is to the already existing systems, and when it is not, that's a problem. But, you kind of are winning, as complaining sort of worked.
DE is going to give us another source of getting normal shards, not specified if weekly, but coming from a syndicate it'll probably have some sort of limit, and one of the new ones without having to fuse them, do you want more?

[Absolute_Kriatura]

On 2023-11-25 at 12:33 AM, Hobie-wan said:

Only the most (worryingly) obsessed collector is actively trying to put 5 shards in every single frame and makes an effort to play all of those frames regularly. And I say this as someone who has kept all the normal frames on top of the primes, leveled every item, and collected every mod, that even I stopped pursuing every possible shard a while back. I have them in the frames I regularly play and  a few are tauforged, some are not.

Collect stuff and have fun, but obsessing about having mathmatically perfect numbers on every single item isn't healthy. It's like people buying and rolling rivens until their eyes bleed day after day and then complaining they're not having fun because they've turned it into work.

I should print this and make it a banner next to my PC so I can read it every day. Just with the only addition I've not missed a single Kahl weekly rotation, I think, so far. I've managed to have all Primed frames with 3-5 shards, some Tau here and there. Even in new frames like Dagath...

My only big issue with the shards is the Bile cost... I do not have resource issues but it hurst a lot that 50% cost still, too damn expensive it discourages experimentation. I can't imagine how impossible it's for those not having that much resources.