Lore help required.

[ReverseMogami]

Hello, can someone explain what is happening in this story? After Whisper in the walls update, there is Alberich, the man in the wall, and I have read about the lotus being the next target of the man in the wall. I want to understand the position of the man in the wall and what it has to with every aspect of this game. 

[Skoomaseller]

the man in the wall is the one who gave us our powers, when we were trapped on the Zariman Ten-Zero, long before the game took place.

we struck a deal with him. in exchange for him granting us powers, we would give something back in return.

that something may have been the page of the grimoire we were hunting in the latest quest. 

but because we got it before he could, the deal was broken. 

now that the deal is broken, he probably has something terrible planned for us, that we don't truly know.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

39 minutes ago, ReverseMogami said:

Hello, can someone explain what is happening in this story? After Whisper in the walls update, there is Alberich, the man in the wall, and I have read about the lotus being the next target of the man in the wall. I want to understand the position of the man in the wall and what it has to with every aspect of this game. 

from what we can tell the man in the wall seems to copy form from people who enter into the void, or creates a double of the person that is a independent part of a larger hive mind or something.
Alberich had been followed by the man in the wall an had feared for the safety of those he held close an so went to a period in time where the man in the wall couldn't reach. As if it is a single entity that exists across all points of time an space that has connections to the void.
So most likely in 1999 or further back was far enough back before the void was discovered to where it had very lil control or power then.

At end of the quest the operator man in the wall had a lotus flower slowly picking afew petals off then crushing it. So it is assumed that since Alberichs man in the wall cant reach him an so now operators man in the wall gonna target Lotus to get what he wants.

We know that Alberichs fingers were cut off by the seraglass an the orokin had used them in experiments for void powered tech, in which the void had windows into are world but not a door. While with the operators the man in the wall had more of a crack to slip some control an interflunce over some things.
As seen afew times are operators eyes change as man in the wall had taken over them for a short period.
 

[ReverseMogami]

15 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

the man in the wall is the one who gave us our powers, when we were trapped on the Zariman Ten-Zero, long before the game took place.

we struck a deal with him. in exchange for him granting us powers, we would give something back in return.

that something may have been the page of the grimoire we were hunting in the latest quest. 

but because we got it before he could, the deal was broken. 

now that the deal is broken, he probably has something terrible planned for us, that we don't truly know.

 

15 hours ago, (XBOX)ShadowBlood89 said:

from what we can tell the man in the wall seems to copy form from people who enter into the void, or creates a double of the person that is a independent part of a larger hive mind or something.
Alberich had been followed by the man in the wall an had feared for the safety of those he held close an so went to a period in time where the man in the wall couldn't reach. As if it is a single entity that exists across all points of time an space that has connections to the void.
So most likely in 1999 or further back was far enough back before the void was discovered to where it had very lil control or power then.

At end of the quest the operator man in the wall had a lotus flower slowly picking afew petals off then crushing it. So it is assumed that since Alberichs man in the wall cant reach him an so now operators man in the wall gonna target Lotus to get what he wants.

We know that Alberichs fingers were cut off by the seraglass an the orokin had used them in experiments for void powered tech, in which the void had windows into are world but not a door. While with the operators the man in the wall had more of a crack to slip some control an interflunce over some things.
As seen afew times are operators eyes change as man in the wall had taken over them for a short period.
 

Now that explain a lot, thanks for sharing. May I ask for a source with more information's about the man in the wall and the void in Warframe?

[TARINunit9]

15 hours ago, ReverseMogami said:

 

Now that explain a lot, thanks for sharing. May I ask for a source with more information's about the man in the wall and the void in Warframe?

The vast majority is simply extrapolating, but there are some in-game sources

If you are rank 5 with the Entrati and rank 3 with the NecroLoids, you can talk to the eight paintings in the NecroLoid dome to hear Albrecht's audiologs explaining his history

You can also unlock the history of Duviri (which is part of the Void) by collecting hidden fragments on top of buildings or in caves.

Lastly you can look at some of Albrecht's notebooks if you beat the optional Man In the Wall miniboss fights (known in game as "Scathing Whisper"), though these notes don't have a 100% drop rate

Edited December 25, 2023 by TARINunit9

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

6 hours ago, ReverseMogami said:

 

Now that explain a lot, thanks for sharing. May I ask for a source with more information's about the man in the wall and the void in Warframe?

most lore explanations are interpretations of lil bits an peices of lore an story we have been given. Fitting the bits into what we can feel like is what was meant.
 

[Xzorn]

22 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

the man in the wall is the one who gave us our powers, when we were trapped on the Zariman Ten-Zero, long before the game took place.

 

I recall the Orokin gave Tenno their powers. They were made that way. The "entity" created the void paradox.

I recall Rel, the tenno operator of Harrow saw the entity as well and apparently all known tenno have seen it, well as the Lotus and Vor.
There's graffiti in the Zaramin giving evidence that others with us had seen it. It's "true" form drawn on walls.

It's possible the entity created the paradox with us when the Zaramin went to the void so that it could get to Albrecht. Though there's also an audio message from him saying that he's not sure if it was him or the entity that came back from the void. Likely both IMO. It's shown the capacity to mimic any void touched and directly control. Both Rel and Albrecht show signs of two entirely different personalities but there's no direct evidence given if they are two or one.

I've partially kept track of the story changes over time. Originally Warframes were suits then they expanded on all that.
The whole thing feels like trying to understand a film student's semester final project.

[Joezone619]

The man in the wall = the void, albrecht and loid also seem to call him "The indifference". Albrecht encountered it and became fearful of it, we made a deal with it and got void powers'n trauma, the zariman & duviri.

Essentially, we can only control the warframes because we made a deal with the man in the wall and got void powers, with transference along with them. What "the indifference" wants with lotus, or with albrecht, complete speculation at the moment.

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I recall the Orokin gave Tenno their powers. They were made that way. The "entity" created the void paradox.

I recall Rel, the tenno operator of Harrow saw the entity as well and apparently all known tenno have seen it, well as the Lotus and Vor.
There's graffiti in the Zaramin giving evidence that others with us had seen it. It's "true" form drawn on walls.

It's possible the entity created the paradox with us when the Zaramin went to the void so that it could get to Albrecht. Though there's also an audio message from him saying that he's not sure if it was him or the entity that came back from the void. Likely both IMO. It's shown the capacity to mimic any void touched and directly control. Both Rel and Albrecht show signs of two entirely different personalities but there's no direct evidence given if they are two or one.

I've partially kept track of the story changes over time. Originally Warframes were suits then they expanded on all that.
The whole thing feels like trying to understand a film student's semester final project.

we got our void powers from the void/man in the wall, the orokin created transference & the warframes

Edited December 25, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Essentially, we can only control the warframes because we made a deal with the man in the wall and got void powers, with transference along with them.

Transferring is an Orokin invention. Certain forms of it existed before the Zariman incident (via Blue Kuva) and even the Tenno version of it can be done by non-Tenno: Stalker is confirmed once and for all NOT a Tenno and he is using a Warframe, Ballas transferred into a warsuit called the Myrmidon, and Sylvania transferred into a tree

[Joezone619]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Transferring is an Orokin invention. Certain forms of it existed before the Zariman incident (via Blue Kuva) and even the Tenno version of it can be done by non-Tenno: Stalker is confirmed once and for all NOT a Tenno and he is using a Warframe, Ballas transferred into a warsuit called the Myrmidon, and Sylvania transferred into a tree

"Now your transference is innate!" -Teshin, the war within.

Past that quest our transference chair remains broken, "I don't need it anymore" -Operator, the war within.

Margulas invented transference by studying us, how do you think she discovered it? We already had it to begin with, whatever she did to suppress our other void powers, suppressed our innate transference too, therefore requiring a device to bring that specific power back out.

Besides, the drifter is able to use transference, no chair, nothing minutes after gaining void powers for the first time in the new war. Transference is an innate void ability, it was just suppressed and re-invented by margulas and later used by the orokin to make the warframes.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Joezone619

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Margulas invented transference by studying us, how do you think she discovered it?

Again, if you count Blue Kuva it existed long before Margulis was born

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-12-24 at 4:33 AM, Skoomaseller said:

now that the deal is broken, he probably has something terrible planned for us, that we don't truly know.

I can see it now. We will take the role of Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction if you know what I mean *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*. 🍌+🍩

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I can see it now. We will take the role of Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction if you know what I mean *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*. 🍌+🍩

I think you have Ving Rhames and Bruce Willis mixed up

[Joezone619]

39 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Again, if you count Blue Kuva it existed long before Margulis was born

Well, we have no lore or info on blue kuva other then the fact that it's like red kuva but temporary. The only lore we get on it is in grandmother's story, its never mention anywhere else ever again. Until we get new info, i don't think it's safe to count it in, at least not heavily due to the lack of info. And thats all without mentioning the only source of info we have, is a "naberous" story, for children.

DE has a habit of making lore they later abandon now and again. (This is especially prevalent with infested lore, between the gap when we were in stasis). As far as i'm concerned, until new lore comes out, my assumption is that blue kuva was a stepping stone to red kuva when the orokin were trying to find out how to live forever.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Joezone619

[TARINunit9]

5 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Well, we have no lore or info on blue kuva other then the fact that it's like red kuva but temporary. The only lore we get on it is in grandmother's story, its never mention anywhere else ever again. Until we get new info, i don't think it's safe to count it in, at least not heavily. DE has a habit of making lore they later abandon now and again. (This is especially prevalent with infested lore, between the gap when we were in stasis)

As far as i'm concerned, until new lore comes out, my assumption is that blue kuva was a stepping stone to red kuva when the orokin were trying to find out how to live forever.

Blue Kuva was less "temporary" and more "reversible." And Red Kuva was already mentioned in the same story, they used both on a regular basis, blue for transferring (combat bodies like the Myrmidon) and red for conjunction (permanent life extension) 

That being said, I'm going through the Second Dream transcript and there's a line that jumps out at me:

Ballas: "It's about the rejects we consigned to Lua. They're calling it Transference."

"They" isn't Margulis, heavily implying that Margulis refined an existing concept of Transference that someone else was already working on

(That said I can't tell when that quote takes place because I'm unclear when Margulis actually died. The way the quests are set up makes me believe she died before the Old War; and before you talk about Silver Grove I always thought that "Margulis" was actually Natah)

[Atsia]

12 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

That said I can't tell when that quote takes place because I'm unclear when Margulis actually died. The way the quests are set up makes me believe she died before the Old War; and before you talk about Silver Grove I always thought that "Margulis" was actually Natah

Even if we ignore the Silver Grove, we know Margulis was still alive well into the start of the Old War thanks to her lines and going into the Zariman herself from AoZ, and knowing that the Zariman didn't appear until, at minimum, after the initial protoframes were made from Kullervo's Crimes. Plus the entire reason she was killed being she was against using the kids for war.

[AshenHaze]

I always saw the Man in the Wall as a simple "mind's interpretation" of some greater cosmic force. In my honest opinion, it is something Entropic in nature as if it is somehow both "all" and "no" energy simultaneously. Like some sort of apocalyptic Schrodinger Cat. It is destructive because it appears to have capacity to simply alter or nullify reality at a whim as we can see from the recent quest where the Indifference seeps into and appears to absorb the lab. Which coincidentally leads paradoxically to a wide open plane of ash and sand underneath a vivid infested world. It's tones are null as resonates with a great desert and it's minions appear to simply be aspects of what we recognize as pieces of a greater whole like a crowd which, once again, paradoxically juxtaposes familiarity with the uncanny.

This paradoxical nature is why I feel it is both all powerful and also null power. This could mean that it represents infinity as when you approach infinity you also approach and endless Void, all becomes nothing which is also all.

I assume that the Man in the Wall wanted something specific, such as possession or infiltration into a set point of "defined virtues or values" which would break it out of a cycle of infinity for a few in order to experience life and sensation as an infinite essence cannot comprehend something that is not infinite.

[TARINunit9]

49 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Even if we ignore the Silver Grove, we know Margulis was still alive well into the start of the Old War thanks to her lines and going into the Zariman herself from AoZ, and knowing that the Zariman didn't appear until, at minimum, after the initial protoframes were made from Kullervo's Crimes.

Ember Prime Codex shows another search-and-rescue operative going onto the recovered Zariman LONG before the Old War. According to that story, we were only on-board that ship for a few days before Kaleen rescued us and Margulis started her work

51 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Plus the entire reason she was killed being she was against using the kids for war.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure it was a frame-up job from her own husband Ballas.

OK so Ballas does genuinely love Margulis. But he's such a controlling sociopath he refuses to let her love anyone but him. Throws her on trial for "apostasy" to threaten her; if she stops loving the Z-kids he drops the charges. Ultimately she doesn't, she insists she still loves the Z-kids (us) and so Ballas goes through with the threat even though he doesn't want to

My read of the timeline is thus: that trial happened right before the Old War. Ballas has gone mad and, true to a controlling sociopath, blames his six co-workers for his own screw-up and rats out the Orokin Empire to the Sentients. The other Orokin fight back, not knowing Ballas is the cause of all this. They create the "bio-drones" (Kullervo and company) but as deadly as they are, they refuse to take orders, which is anathema to Orokin dogma so they have them all executed. Out of options, the Emperors pull the Z-kids out of stasis and throw us at the Sentients as a hail-mary play. It works, and we start kicking Sentient ass up one side of the system and down the other.

Ballas didn't expect this. He pretends to head the Warframe project, but sells out our secret to Hunhow. Hunhow implants Natah as a sleeper agent and Ballas transfigures her into Margulis. The Sentients feign retreat (with us trashing part of Tau for good measure) Natah and Ballas order us to kill the Orokin at Pluto. Stalker sees the massacre and swears revenge. This is where Natah was supposed to kill us (Hunhow wants his enemies dead and Ballas wants revenge for "stealing" Margulis) but Natah betrays everything and hides us instead. The rest is history

 

The literal facts are pretty well-documented, the only debate is a few of them might be out of order. I find it makes much more sense if the real Margulis never saw the Old War and Ballas was a traitor from the start; but there's an equal case to be made Margulis died and Ballas switched sides halfway through the War instead

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I think you have Ving Rhames and Bruce Willis mixed up

No. Marsellus is the one that has some "quality time" with Maynard and Zed. Butch is just stuck with the gimp.

[TARINunit9]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No. Marsellus is the one that has some "quality time" with Maynard and Zed. Butch is just stuck with the gimp.

My point is, we aren't Marsellus in your metaphor. We're Butch

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

My point is, we aren't Marsellus in your metaphor. We're Butch

And that is for you to decide how and why exactly? You clearly didnt get the reference I made, since in that metaphor we are very much Marsellus and not Butch. I also hope you didnt think I was serious about our Drifter/Operator ending up getting some deep deep action in their personal void by an Albwall and Uswall tag team in some shady room in an unknown part of space... or time. 

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And that is for you to decide how and why exactly?

Gee, how could an up-and-coming fighter wielding a katana who reneges on a deal with someone much more powerful but ultimately survives because of plot immunity POSSIBLY apply to Butch from Pulp Fiction? I guess it will forever remain a mystery...

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Gee, how could an up-and-coming fighter wielding a katana who reneges on a deal with someone much more powerful but ultimately survives because of plot immunity POSSIBLY apply to Butch from Pulp Fiction? I guess it will forever remain a mystery...

I was refering to the specific scene/incident which went *whoosh* far far above your head apparently. It could have been referenced to any movie with a similar scene/incident, but PF, Marsellus, Maynard and Zed was the situation that first came to mind. I could have probably referenced an adult "art" film aswell if I had thought long enough about it, or the couple in Mad Max 2 getting chased down on the road, "played" with and then executed.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I was refering to the specific scene/incident which went *whoosh* far far above your head apparently

The fact I brought up Butch's katana means I know exactly what you are trying to say. And I'm saying, no. I'm pretty sure that's NOT going to happen to us; it's going to happen to The Man in the Wall instead