How's that plot for you?

[Dairaion]

7 minutes ago, RyllusPurple said:

Can anyone explain how Alad v is infested, then normal during new war, then infested again?

it's because the game is developed as single player but doesn't want you to play it in single player in order, i at this point have no clue what a mutalist or a tubeman is because DE for some absurd reason decided to not turn their events into single player missions to catch new players up.

[Dairaion]

1 hour ago, Yrkul said:

They're a bit tied up by Spyre Hunters at the moment.

Bull, the Spyre Hunters are off having a magic mushroom acid trip after disappearing for at least a year. why hasn't House Escher tried another super soldier program by stealing technology? what about Van Saar himself coming back, did he just buy space twitter and spend his time tweeting while the Spyre hunters were gone?

[Loza03]

On 2023-12-25 at 11:30 PM, Corvid said:

Because Warframe was such hard sci fi before the changing of the guard. It totally never had things like reality warping children, soul transferring rituals and flesh mutating nanite plagues before then.

Plus, science high fantasy does kind of fit well with Warframe's core design, or at least the modern core design.

We're demigods that can slay hundreds of enemies at a time, casually leap dozens of meters, and do battle in cathedralic ships. I think we regularly forget just how BIG everything in this game actually is.

Like, OK. Consider briefly, the largest building in the entire world is the Boeing Everett factory. It's over a kilometer in length. Most Cathedrals, buildings that start hinging on the 'humans can't compute this size' are hovering around the 90 meter mark in length and width. Going into sci-fi, the Enterprise-C is around 500 meters in length.

A Grineer Galleon is around 2 km long, and the various Corpus cruisers are usually similar in length. Individual rooms in tilesets, albeit the big ones, are often 100+meters long, literally being cathedralic in size and scale. And these are the basic everyday ships the enemy has fleets of, the small fringe outposts nobody cares about. And they have a floorplan that makes Disneyworld blush.

 

DE's attempts at a more grounded style were noble, and made for some iconic early developments, and even a fun meta-narrative. The tone shifted as the players got stronger. But even way back then, DE was pretty thoroughly in the 'Star Wars' side of the equation.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Warframe's story has so many great aspects but nothing cohesive keeping it together. Certain aspects are fully fledged while others are barely explained or poorly told. Eternalism was the worst thing that ever happened.

The newest quest was wacky and wild but barely explained anything. Just more questions. Though the terminal log in the hub was great.

Edited December 28, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[IggySnow]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I love Warframe, but I checked out of the lore after The New War.  I have no idea where the game is going now. We went from mysterious robot ninja mercenaries working for the Lotus organization to....i don't even know what the "story" is now. Like i don't know what we're even doing for these talking animals, but they give me loot so....

Isnt it pretty obvious that we are out of the Sentient wars part of the story, and we are now in the Man in the wall story?

The entire Whispers in the wall quest was beating us over the head with "The man in the wall is stalking both Albrecht and the operator. Albrecht spent a ton of his life doing some pretty awful S#&$ to find out what Wallies deal is. He couldn't, so now we are stuck cleaning up after him."

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

12 hours ago, trst said:

No it's the average player that was out of touch. Before we started getting any of that DE talked about a "year of new war" or something along those lines. And we got exactly that with events literally about the Sentients invading the entire system. And just in general players really need to stop complaining about the lore/story when they pick and choose which parts they pay attention to.

Also players left after the quest because the entire content of the update was just New War and the post quest bounties. Players had nothing to do after spending the two hours or so on the quest (there was Caliban but we see how well he's received) but wait for the next update. Plus there's the players who got thankfully filtered out of the game for somehow finding the quest too hard to finish.

If two events.   With almost no story in them.   And one being ridiculously broken when launched Scarlet spear.   Which also gave us the fake squad link which was promoted at tenniocoin 2019.    
 

If that’s the year of new war.  You must be easily pleased.   They also said that , after they had failed to release it for Christmas 2019,.  And it was delayed another two years by the way.    

I just don’t think the particularly good at managing their development schedule   ,   As for the story goes ,

In the war with quest,   I drank the Kuva,  

This was supposed to be a meaningful choice.  
 

Hasn’t been brought up since. 

[Krion112]

1 hour ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

-snip-

Their argument is just disingenuous or ignorant.

Like, I'm pretty sure Little Duck outright claimed that Scarlet Spear was just the Sentients poking us with a stick to see what would happen, which they then followed up with a test countermeasure (ie Orphix Venom). Neither constitutes the substance of the war.

Otherwise, everything leading up to New War was categorized as the 'Prelude to New War', implying the War Proper hadn't even started yet, again killing the notion that Scarlet Spear and Orphix Venom were supposed to be the war itself.

Heck, you can still go onto DE's own promotional site for New War and get these neat quotes:
- "Fight on the frontlines in every corner of the Origin System..."
- "Unite opposing forces and test your mettle against the full mustered force of the Sentients..." <heavily implying DE didn't consider those events the main course.
- "...get ready to wield limitless power to look and play the way you want in this all-out war,"

Between these, some other quotes on that site, the framing of the New War trailer itself with Lotus, etc, it's pretty clear DE were advertising a full on war, and the person you're arguing against is trying to gaslight you (and others) into believing you made it up, but DE blatantly advertised and alluded to it.
(And I'm responding to you and not them because I don't play chess with pigeons, I'm just here to provide context and evidence to the contrary of their position)

 

Also, just to get ahead of the remaining argument they'd be able to make, it doesn't matter if the New War was just supposed to be a 'Red Herring' for Ballas's Narmer stuff, it was hyped up too much to the point there still needed to be an actual demonstration of the War with the Sentients.
Like, I don't think most players are actually against the twist, just distraught that it happened before even getting the war with the Sentients, the faction that had basically been teased since Warframe had lore.
(And yes it was within DE's technical power to make such a war, they've already done a system-wide invasion event called the 'Mutalist Incursions', so it wasn't a matter of technical limitations, at the very least not major ones.)

So yeah, no, you're right, the person you're dealing with just isn't arguing in good faith.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Krion112

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Another thing worth considering in conversations like this, is that often without frames of reference, our establishing points of reference, a lot of our criticisms or praise can be a bit meaningless. Even the greatest story agreed upon by many can be criticised and, or downplayed, and the weakest, poorest stories can be placed in a context which be viewed positively. 

A lot of us will describe or make a certain assertion, that something is good, bad, jumbled, poor, convoluted, innovative, but what may we also use as positive, negative and comparable examples? There is a certain game studio that has a creator thats fairly well known, and their games are story and plot focused, but... I find the writing and story direction atrocious. Not that I don't find some of the characters endearing and interesting, (though I would argue thats more to do by the efforts of the voice actors), or the story ideas having potential... I just find the writer/director themselves, way too derivative, unoriginal, cliche, all to the point of seeming like they just copy from other mediums to succeed in a medium they don't really care for... To an audience that may not know better. Even funnier, a lot of the source materials that they borrow from, they don't even seem to actually understand, so they often co-opt other peoples themes, ideas, and then produce blandness, soulless imitations... The games themselves are fairly popular though, and I can also see why... I could list many positives as well. Thing is, some of my favourite games, are also from a creator and writer who is very similar in some ways... Just they tend to wear their inspirations ob their sleeve, acknowledge their references, homages, and they tend to give them a weird, individual quirk, so they seem to put more of themselves into their work. For me, thats enough of a difference to enjoy their work, but to some, both could be considered hacks. 

Generally I am pretty positive with most media I consume, even if I am good at being critical. I do tend to like video game plots that seem to try to draw on the strength of the medium creatively, as opposed to games that seem like have plots to make them seem more like movies (though there can be exceptions too, depending on the genre, twists, meta elements). Even when I ask myself what games I consider have good plot, and bad plot, my intuitive response is to think that it depends. Does Shadow of the Colossus have a good plot? Depends, its very simple and minimal, but it very much compliments the story, and I consider the story simple, but great. The story in turn, is as much about the atmosphere, the pacing, the sense of isolation, the setting, the lack of... I like a lot of certain Final Fantasy games too, which... some of their plots and stories are... There is a lot of it. In this sense, personally, I also tend to criticise bad writing and badly conceived characters, and their influence or role in a plot. Since there are so many things that can elevate plot even if its potential lacking in certain areas (some which may be intended). Some of my favourite stories have basic plots, convoluted plots, etc 

A side effect of all this too, is that peoples tastes and preferences differ. Its why people often prefer to have select reviewers that they know have similar tastes, than just taking the word of random reviewers. Its fine to have different peoples, and preferences, but if the movie reviewer considers Mad Max Fury Road bad and basic, and Grown Ups 2, a great and witty enjoyable experience, I probably won't really share much perspective with them. 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

- "...get ready to wield limitless power to look and play the way you want in this all-out war,"

Between these, some other quotes on that site, the framing of the New War trailer itself with Lotus, etc, it's pretty clear DE were advertising a full on war, 

I remember that trailer now
 

The Lotus in her sentient form

 

And in the background, a huge amount of sentience.   And you getting ready to face off against all of them.   In an actual war.  lol.  They really doubled down with that years  Tenniocoin , showing the three perspectives of the “war,”   Which was only about 45 minutes of the quest.    Then it was everything from hide and seek to prison break.  

[CephalonCarnage]

true, I think there is 2 main problems here: the breakneck speed at which they rush out massive new content, and the ending of a story that has not been replaced with anything.

The ending of the old story that was mostly consistent with a dirty-science backdrop, told from unreliable narrators and fragmented, that still gave us the whole background of the Orokin and our own origin story that culminated in the big reveal (no, not operator) but that Ballas wasn't the big blue enemy, it was space mom all along. That was interesting, that had legs that I assumed would be the beginning of The New War, what could be cooler that fighting the old enemy that subverted the Orokin, brought about our downfall, get caught up in the consequences and millenia later ended up as confused as we were. Only to see us then having to fight her to rescue the origin system and perhaps restore an empire again, what twists and reveals could they add into that!

Did Ballas reprogram her into a Margulis-shaped form (can't blame him) or did she take that form to corrupt him? Was Margulis Natah all along even!?! And then, when she hid us all in Lua in the void, did she really, or were we sent there to protect us, her unknowing weapons, from being destroyed by her as she tried to finish her job of taking over everything for daddy Hunhow? There's so many possibilities in such a story told from a perspective that the world is realistic (not hand-wavy Wally magic handshake, ugh). The trouble is someone has to sit down, work it out, figure the options and opportunities and then tie it all into a game development process that would take another decade.

And that's the problem, DE churns out so much stuff that I'm not sure they have the ability to make updates like Zariman and Sanctum (lets forget Duviri as its not really warframe) and still have them be part of such a story. Zariman can be said to be hanging off the coat-tails of the old story. But look at how little Sanctum has to hold it up. Right now, its easy to slap together awesome art with "new boss of the month" type updates. Its easy, but they will run out of goodwill eventually. Remember the storyline is one big component of what kept people playing WF, what kept people talking about, and what kept people invested in playing it more. Now its just another online game. They have to address this, and back in time or parallel worlds will only take them a short way before it falls apart,

[Dairaion]

4 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

I drank the Kuva, 

we all drank the Kuva.

21 minutes ago, CephalonCarnage said:

true, I think there is 2 main problems here: the breakneck speed at which they rush out massive new content, and the ending of a story that has not been replaced with anything.

The ending of the old story that was mostly consistent with a dirty-science backdrop, told from unreliable narrators and fragmented, that still gave us the whole background of the Orokin and our own origin story that culminated in the big reveal (no, not operator) but that Ballas wasn't the big blue enemy, it was space mom all along. That was interesting, that had legs that I assumed would be the beginning of The New War, what could be cooler that fighting the old enemy that subverted the Orokin, brought about our downfall, get caught up in the consequences and millenia later ended up as confused as we were. Only to see us then having to fight her to rescue the origin system and perhaps restore an empire again, what twists and reveals could they add into that!

Did Ballas reprogram her into a Margulis-shaped form (can't blame him) or did she take that form to corrupt him? Was Margulis Natah all along even!?! And then, when she hid us all in Lua in the void, did she really, or were we sent there to protect us, her unknowing weapons, from being destroyed by her as she tried to finish her job of taking over everything for daddy Hunhow? There's so many possibilities in such a story told from a perspective that the world is realistic (not hand-wavy Wally magic handshake, ugh). The trouble is someone has to sit down, work it out, figure the options and opportunities and then tie it all into a game development process that would take another decade.

And that's the problem, DE churns out so much stuff that I'm not sure they have the ability to make updates like Zariman and Sanctum (lets forget Duviri as its not really warframe) and still have them be part of such a story. Zariman can be said to be hanging off the coat-tails of the old story. But look at how little Sanctum has to hold it up. Right now, its easy to slap together awesome art with "new boss of the month" type updates. Its easy, but they will run out of goodwill eventually. Remember the storyline is one big component of what kept people playing WF, what kept people talking about, and what kept people invested in playing it more. Now its just another online game. They have to address this, and back in time or parallel worlds will only take them a short way before it falls apart,

man i really wish they could've IDK explained how the lotus worked before they turned her into a Gatebox Mommy Waifu. 

You're right about the Zariman, Duviri, and Sanctum. Everyone would claim that content islands don't exist but they're honest to god proof. you finish with the origin system then you have to "no-life" the open worlds to acquire the meager bonuses to shine your set up or upgrade to whatever OP set up will be nerfed into the singularity within the next two business quarters for "balance reasons". the only in depth content that has ever existed was the origin system and they've been coasting on it for years. Railjack needs to be upgraded including the crewmate system, Open world and Necramechs too. Those two game modes and their subservient systems have set up to actually plug into the Origin system and change the way it's played as well as each other but we're left with the skeleton of what could be like the first 4 years of Kenshi, But Kenshi was made by like one guy and his sister.

The only furthering of the Origin story proper was the Liches and Sister to add in optional bosses that you can just skip over now unless you want cosmetics and Duviri for the operator which you can skip over unless you want a specific OP weapon. 

Nothing of value is being added. maybe 1999 will be so cool we'll want a new direction but i doubt it, i further doubt that it'll be anything more than a giant corn statue for new players.

[Hypernaut1]

9 hours ago, IggySnow said:

Isnt it pretty obvious that we are out of the Sentient wars part of the story, and we are now in the Man in the wall story?

The entire Whispers in the wall quest was beating us over the head with "The man in the wall is stalking both Albrecht and the operator. Albrecht spent a ton of his life doing some pretty awful S#&amp;&#036; to find out what Wallies deal is. He couldn't, so now we are stuck cleaning up after him."

This makes NO sense to me. I'm sure you can follow the story, but it seems so weird and convoluted to me that i just don't feel like wasting the time to try and follow it. The story is just "stuff happening" now. I don't know anyone's motivation anymore.

I'm still enjoying the game though. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Hypernaut1

[Dairaion]

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This makes NO sense to me. I'm sure you can follow the story, but it seems so weird and convoluted to me that i just don't feel like wasting the time to try and follow it. The story is just "stuff happening" now. I don't know anyone's motivation anymore.

I'm still enjoying the game though. 

i think you just summed up alot of story problems, motivation. in warframe my motivation is to build a team of grineer and go on adventures because Predator and (((The Vin Diesel movies where he's a space alien)))  taught me that in space if you kill someone their property is yours. I had no motivation for like the last 3 story missions, i don't know about space pirate lady with the librarian haircut or what a yareli is. now i have to go into some guys basement and fight robots instead of just opening the doors and letting the flood and the army of disembodied hand have a Beat It style alley knife fight. i mean at this point why don't we cure the entrati first or like join the corpus and make it to the top 80's style to weaponize them against the indifference?

Edited December 28, 2023 by Dairaion
The Sequel to the movie Pitch Black is censored.

[TioMegaManX]

11 hours ago, Dairaion said:

we all drank the Kuva.

man i really wish they could've IDK explained how the lotus worked before they turned her into a Gatebox Mommy Waifu. 

You're right about the Zariman, Duviri, and Sanctum. Everyone would claim that content islands don't exist but they're honest to god proof. you finish with the origin system then you have to "no-life" the open worlds to acquire the meager bonuses to shine your set up or upgrade to whatever OP set up will be nerfed into the singularity within the next two business quarters for "balance reasons". the only in depth content that has ever existed was the origin system and they've been coasting on it for years. Railjack needs to be upgraded including the crewmate system, Open world and Necramechs too. Those two game modes and their subservient systems have set up to actually plug into the Origin system and change the way it's played as well as each other but we're left with the skeleton of what could be like the first 4 years of Kenshi, But Kenshi was made by like one guy and his sister.

The only furthering of the Origin story proper was the Liches and Sister to add in optional bosses that you can just skip over now unless you want cosmetics and Duviri for the operator which you can skip over unless you want a specific OP weapon. 

Nothing of value is being added. maybe 1999 will be so cool we'll want a new direction but i doubt it, i further doubt that it'll be anything more than a giant corn statue for new players.

Honestly, what are everyone's most pessimistic expectations for 1999? I expect only a small expansion of Sanctum, maybe some new tileset, but no Minn, no resolution for the poor Cavia animals, not even progress on Wally's arc.

[CephalonCarnage]

33 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Honestly, what are everyone's most pessimistic expectations for 1999?

Kahl missions, slow movement, a gun and some special powers - only those powers are the ones Excalibur comes with rather than grineer barriers and grenades. Everything else will be a reskinned Kahl mission set.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:00 AM, tomnmillie said:

Absolutely. It's not Warframe. It's the new game they're forcing us to play test for them.

Being that soul frame.  Shares the same engine as war frame,.  Duviri Was created, so the Devs could create assets for soul frame,  the combat, animations,  the coloured trees, etc

Basically, Duvirir was an asset flip. For soul frame.   
 

It’s really disrespectful when you think about it.   Even advertising soul frame during war frame 10 year anniversary. Antenna con ,  this ain’t Soulcoin Steve,.

Edited December 29, 2023 by (PSN)SolarPhantom82

[SDGDen]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Being that soul frame.  Shares the same engine as war frame,.  Duviri Was created, so the Devs could create assets for soul frame,  the combat, animations,  the coloured trees, etc

Basically, Duvirir was an asset flip. Full soul frame.   
 

It’s really disrespectful when you think about it.   Even advertising frame during war frame 10 year anniversary. Antenna con ,  this ain’t Soulcoin Steve,.

i highly doubt this, considering what we've seen of soulframe.

im pretty sure the duviri paradox was planned for much longer than soulframe, considering how long ago the first trailer was, and the fact that even then, the "lending weapons to the drifter" thing already existed (although we never got to wield our guns in drifter form)

what might be the case is they tried to have duviri just be "you use warframe's weapons but you're in drifter form", and found out that it just feels like worse warframe because it'd be warframe without the movement. so instead, they leaned into drifter duviri gameplay being more differentiated from warframe gameplay, so they ended up going more soulslike in mechanics (not in difficulty though).

that's just speculation though.

 

what i can say with certainty is that soulframe and duviri don't share that much DNA. if you want to argue that duviri is a soulframe asset flip, then both of those are also a dark souls asset flip, because it's on the same level of similarity. melee-based third-person games with a tracking, dodge and parry system, manual healing and small amounts of magic, set in a fantasy world.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

23 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

When I say asset flip, I mean it literally,  

Duviri s  assets will be used in Soul frame,  

[TioMegaManX]

7 hours ago, SDGDen said:

im pretty sure the duviri paradox was planned for much longer than soulframe, considering how long ago the first trailer was, and the fact that even then, the "lending weapons to the drifter" thing already existed (although we never got to wield our guns in drifter form)

And THIS should be your first hint of how things can change mid-development in order to make us test their new game prototype, when Duviri was first teased I thought it would be adult operator with no powers using weapons since DE has a hardon for taking away warframe powers, story wise it may have been always the same, gameplay wise, not so much.

[CephalonCarnage]

I agree - nothing says "this is soulframe assets being paid for using warframe developer time" than the new spellbook. Space ninjas no more, you're now space Potter.

[Krion112]

On 2023-12-29 at 4:41 AM, CephalonCarnage said:

I agree - nothing says "this is soulframe assets being paid for using warframe developer time" than the new spellbook. Space ninjas no more, you're now space Potter.

The whole spellbook thing could've passed as a Warframe Exalted Weapon, like for a literal wizard/mage type of Warframe, but on its own, it is injecting too much High Fantasy into Warframe.

I know there are some here arguing that Warframe was always leaning into High Fantasy, but, having been playing the game for 3-days over 10 years as of this post, I think I can firmly say that, no it hasn't. It maybe started in War Within or Chains of Harrow, sprinkled throughout Prelude to New War (like Lavos's lore), but has just really gone off the deep-end since New War itself.
Prior, The only literal High Fantasy element were the Tenno themselves, given what makes them unique is void powers and that they lean into more primitive-style weapons, like bows and melee, but the other Factions and the rest of the setting viewed them as mystical oddities because of it.

Now we have lore about literal alchemy and magic rituals performed by the Orokin, whatever the heck an Oro is, a spellbook, fairytale-esque nonsense like talking animals and misplaced romance, and an increased emphasis on the Void, trying to overexplain it as some kind of diet version of the Warp & Chaos from Warhammer 40k.
Overall, it's just turning Warframe into a mess of ideas that don't coalesce together, and is capitulating on a prior established style.

Definitely missing the days when it was more like... Bio-Cyberpunk Mecha Anime with a spot of Dune or Hyperion.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Krion112

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On 12/26/2023 at 8:25 AM, Qriist said:

The Drifter says hello.

I understand that the drifter was what we got instead,    But this basically means that anything DE reveals or says they’re gonna do it subject to change.   Everything about Duviri,  changed from its reveal.  And definitely not for the better.      Obviously things change in development.      
 

But what we got was completely different.  
 

so my point stands, we never got adult operators.  But then again, we never got a “war” in the new war either. 

[Qriist]

2 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Everything about Duviri,  changed from its reveal.

No, it didn't.

There are *some* differences, most notably relating to the Drifter using a regular gun, but most of the same basic concepts apply: fighting Dax foes, the Drifter as a distinct (adult) person from the Operator, the Operator providing material help to the Drifter, weird twisted landscape, Oroworm, riding a kaithe.

 

Duviri went through 4 years of development and mostly came out unchanged from the reveal trailer. Pretty impressive tbh.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

so my point stands, we never got adult operators.

Again, Drifter says hello.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

But then again, we never got a “war” in the new war either. 

but... we did?

Playing as each character, Kahl navigated through a massive Sentient battlefield, Veso fights off a hostile takeover of his Corpus tech network, and Tenshin inflitrated a Sentient mothership. Those events are all more or less simultaneous and provide the opening for the Tenno to actually get to Ballas. 

That's 4 different factions uniting on ground and in space to fight a common threat on multiple fronts with demonstrated high stakes and plenty of worldbuilding to make it believable. People died, known locations were impacted, and our failure against Ballas had tangible consequences.

I'm not sure what else you want in a war.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Qriist

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

11 hours ago, Qriist said:

 

I'm not sure what else you want in a war.

An epic war, where the tennio take on the dangerous threat. That was the sentence. .  
 

That’s what was built up,   But 40 minutes into the quest. The sentence are an afterthought.,   
 

The sentence should’ve been some reaper mass effect level threat  that wiped out the galaxy,   
 

What we got was Nama. An uninterest sub enemies that even DE have moved on from,

 

Great War ,  

Edited December 31, 2023 by (PSN)SolarPhantom82

[Qriist]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

An epic war, where the tennio take on the dangerous threat.

 

"We must rise together", complete with Corpus and Grineer scenes - nearly a year before release.

That's what was promised. It's also what was delivered.

 

31 minutes ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

That’s what was built up,   But 40 minutes into the quest. The sentence are an afterthought., 

Bro, do you even lore, bro?

The Narmer are Sentients. Or rather, they are the minions of the Sentients. Remember, we failed against Ballas so he was able to lead the Sentients in enslaving the solar system. The Archons and Pazuul are other aspects of that enslavement. 

 

31 minutes ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Great War

I agree! :D