How's that plot for you?

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

5 hours ago, Sierra said:

I think it started before she took over. The New War introduced eternalism, and Duviri pretty much flipped the table and opted for pure fantasy over the established sci-fi setting, and if I recall Reb took over either a bit before or after Duviri released. I think the real cause was probably how much Steve wanted to work on something else, and that bled into Warframe pretty hard in the end. With how long he's been working on Warframe it is understandable although very surprising they went all in with it.

It might take a bit of time to wrap up eternalism and any pure fantasy elements to avoid leaving loose plot threads, so an immediate return to form is unlikely. Time will tell though

Don’t get me wrong.   I completely checked out when they release Duviri, 

Took six months off the game,   Although I don’t, particularly like the story direction,   Getting back to Warframe gameplay with what is probably the best tile set have have ever released,   And some nice quality of life improvements and I’m enjoying the game again.   
 

Rebecca took over after the new war,  because so many players had left the game upper management, felt it was time to start working on a new project,  

For me personally I think so many players left because players were expecting a war. Not a love quarrel.  

[GrayArchon]

13 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Why is it surprising that an update with a new tileset will revolve around playing in that tileset

Oh for sure. DE always does this, of course. They make a new tileset and they want to show it off in the quest or event that introduces it. I have no problem with this! It's just for this update, it seems like the Albrecht's Laboratory tileset has fewer tiles than others. I'm not sure if that's really the case or just my perception, but having a lot of the quest setpieces reused as normal tiles just sort of reinforces the notion.

It's not even a real criticism of DE in my view, but it is something I've noticed with the new tileset. I was responding to someone who commented something similar.

[VanFanel1980mx]

12 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Don’t get me wrong.   I completely checked out when they release Duviri, 

Took six months off the game,   Although I don’t, particularly like the story direction,   Getting back to Warframe gameplay with what is probably the best tile set have have ever released,   And some nice quality of life improvements and I’m enjoying the game again.   
 

Rebecca took over after the new war,  because so many players had left the game upper management, felt it was time to start working on a new project,  

For me personally I think so many players left because players were expecting a war. Not a love quarrel.  

Imagine their faces during the end of WitW quest.

[trst]

13 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

For me personally I think so many players left because players were expecting a war. Not a love quarrel.  

Players expecting a war should have been paying attention to the game then. We already got that through the content and events prior to New War while the quest was the ending and resolution of said war. Unless players somehow think Scarlet Spear and Orphix Venom were just another tuesday in the story.

[tomnmillie]

18 hours ago, Sierra said:

I think it started before she took over. The New War introduced eternalism, and Duviri pretty much flipped the table and opted for pure fantasy over the established sci-fi setting, and if I recall Reb took over either a bit before or after Duviri released. I think the real cause was probably how much Steve wanted to work on something else, and that bled into Warframe pretty hard in the end. With how long he's been working on Warframe it is understandable although very surprising they went all in with it.

This game has always been fantasy in space

[AshenHaze]

Sometimes I think that the extreme level of open-endedness is due to the nature that DE doesn't want to actively commit to damn near anything. So by making it so open-ended and cryptic, it is not only visually confusing (parading to be esoteric and profound) it is vague enough that any outcome can be the logical one.

Honestly, considering the community this doesn't really surprise me. Everyone just chases the "next broken thing" anyway to satisfy an addiction to efficiency. The devs know any added attention on story or other qualities of the game would be actively reprimanded instead of embraced by the majority of players itself. We can see this in effect itself by how Tomes were received. We finally have a unique and extremely interesting weapon with absolute versatility on its definition and execution with multiple ways to build it and multiple applications of its use and people upturn their nose at it because "it doesn't have big enough numbers" to satiate the "big number dopamine junkies." As someone who actually enjoys Warframe powers that aren't just "big number get bigger" I really like the tome but definitely realize I'm in a minority.

There's just no incentive for the developers to work harder in these areas when an update releasing the next "riven" or "kitgun" or whatever takes its place will be the main selling factor that people will dump hundreds of hours into for a 3% increase in damage output. In other words, they know the majority players of who plays this game in their community.

[(PSN)Unstar]

I like the plot.  It's interesting and does a nice job of creating both the story and the sci-fi world it takes place in.  Arguably the plot could be made less intentionally opaque during quests and cutscenes, but the writing that's in places like the codex is fantastic.

[Tombsite]

26 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Arguably the plot could be made less intentionally opaque during quests and cutscenes, but the writing that's in places like the codex is fantastic.

See that the thing. DE can do great story when it's onlyt the writers. But try and put it together with the rest of the game and it gets some what wonky and unfocused.

[0_The_F00l]

I don't think DE cares about the story anymore ,

I don't think they cared for quite some time actually.

Loose threads , plot holes , inconsistent objectives , poor pacing , depthless characters that can't decide whether they are dead and a protagonist that has no clue but goes along for any ride coming his way ruin the potential of the universe.

It is honestly starting to feel like a cake shop with a flavour of the day menu , it can be tasty in small sessions but it is not a healthy meal.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

14 hours ago, trst said:

Players expecting a war should have been paying attention to the game then. We already got that through the content and events prior to New War while the quest was the ending and resolution of said war. Unless players somehow think Scarlet Spear and Orphix Venom were just another tuesday in the story.

If you think Scarlet Spear and Orphic venom. Were the war thats was advertised, you’re out of touch with what the average warframe player was expecting,     Somewhere along the way the Dave realise they don’t have the resources.   And the more linear path.,  there’s a reason half the player base left after the new Quest  ,,, 

[EverdarkRaven]

Warframe kinda has the same issue that a similar game has in that much of their story isn't explicitly stated. You have to read the codex entries or go out of your way to find a lot of the world-building that has been done. Like most of the information we know about Albrecht is from the codex and his computer right? I don't remember much about him being talked about in the actual quests. 

WIth that said, the story and world-building is not the biggest thing for Warframe. At this point, the quests are just tutorials for the new mission types. I like the lore and try to learn as much of it as I can, but I also don't go out of my way to do all the scans to find the story. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by EverdarkRaven

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

15 hours ago, tomnmillie said:

This game has always been fantasy in space

There's always been fantasy, but Duviri essentially thrust us into an unrelated medieval game that's only loosely connected to Warframe.

[tomnmillie]

51 minutes ago, Sierra said:

There's always been fantasy, but Duviri essentially thrust us into an unrelated medieval game that's only loosely connected to Warframe.

Absolutely. It's not Warframe. It's the new game they're forcing us to play test for them.

[Agall]

8 minutes ago, tomnmillie said:

Absolutely. It's not Warframe. It's the new game they're forcing us to play test for them.

Warframe used to be space ninjas in special suits, so what you arbitrarily declare as Warframe isn't going to win against the actual writers/developers of the game.

[tomnmillie]

7 minutes ago, Agall said:

Warframe used to be space ninjas in special suits, so what you arbitrarily declare as Warframe isn't going to win against the actual writers/developers of the game.

Nor does it prevent you from defending scummy business models.

[Agall]

5 minutes ago, tomnmillie said:

Nor does it prevent you from defending scummy business models.

Oh, did you buy Warframe with a promise of a certain narrative?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-12-24 at 8:39 PM, VanFanel1980mx said:

I feel like the story has gone on too many tangents with little pay off to the big questions, probably not gonna see much in the upcoming update, so let's recap.

  Reveal hidden contents

- We start up not knowing much, we meet Lotus and Ordis, being completely new we may see Vor as the big enemy at the beginning... unless we start in Duviri or something, in which case we may even be a lot more confused.
- So we know there is the Grineer, Corpus and Infested, at first we seem to be the ones cleaning the whole mess... but then turns out we can play for the first two factions while always trying to stop the 3rd.
- Orokin and Void mumbo jumbo, Stalker, who is that guy?
- Many things like syndicates and secondary factions are there for world building and a few new warframes lore so we skip that.
- At some point some people suspected Lotus was hiding something, she kind of did but not the way we thought.
- Chains of Harrow, Wally is kind of a thing.
- Sentients become a thing, Stalker... seriously, who is that guy?
- Potato kid is a thing.
- Lotus takes a vacation with someone one would probably know little of if we never see the trailers (correct me if I am wrong.)
- Free Umbra Excalibur, Lotus doesn't even explain anything at all cuz reasons.
- As some stuff unlocks the Entrati become a thing, also, Alberto el Entrato has been thing.
- New War, we forgive Lotus because Reb can't just be replaced, Narmer are like Sentients so they have been a thing for a while, clearly not trying to be left alone, also, Wally is still not quite a thing yet.
- Zariman is a thing, at this point most of these new tilesets seem to share the whole "if you don't max rank the syndicate something terrible will happen" more or less.
- Alberto el Entrato becomes a foreground thing, kind of, Cavia is the next syndicate we have to save or something.
- We unlock the ability to customize the Cavia, there is not quite the payoff for them... yet.

Stalker is still there trying to punish people for killing anything regardless of its danger or alignment, we still don't know what's exactly his deal, Wally is there still doing things, so far one could have jumped from thinking the Grineer are the bad guys, then both them and the Corpus while the probably badder guys being the Infested, but turns out the Sentient were kind of the biggest bad guys, while that went on we could think the Orokin may have been the original bad guys but as far as we know they are all dead, but turns out Wally may be the one true bad guy... for now.

I can't say the plot thickens as it is kind of becoming a bit saturated with too many flavors by now.

Warframe's pore is told by every aspect of the game. Every frame that has a story, every scanned enemy, fragment scan, kuria(SP?), faction ranking, even some weapons, all tell very important 0arts of the story. 

StallorD's YouTube channel does a very good job of explaining the story and there's a recent thread about players hyped over the linguistic architecture of faction languages. Their deciphering could reveal even more. 

As for my current theory, I'm now thinking there are more than one "Wally's" in the mix. So far, Tagfor talks about a "lonely" entity, our Wally is helpful (in a very twisted way), the Lotus' Wally appearance came with the wall and her helmet, Dr. Entrati has a Wally next to him, but Entrati is speaking freely and uses void tongue and is using his own voice that isn't sync'd with Wally like what happens with us. 

Maybe, maybe not.

[trst]

5 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

If you think Scarlet Spear and Orphic venom. Were the war thats was advertised, you’re out of touch with what the average warframe player was expecting,     Somewhere along the way the Dave realise they don’t have the resources.   And the more linear path.,  there’s a reason half the player base left after the new Quest  ,,, 

No it's the average player that was out of touch. Before we started getting any of that DE talked about a "year of new war" or something along those lines. And we got exactly that with events literally about the Sentients invading the entire system. And just in general players really need to stop complaining about the lore/story when they pick and choose which parts they pay attention to.

Also players left after the quest because the entire content of the update was just New War and the post quest bounties. Players had nothing to do after spending the two hours or so on the quest (there was Caliban but we see how well he's received) but wait for the next update. Plus there's the players who got thankfully filtered out of the game for somehow finding the quest too hard to finish.

[PublikDomain]

20 hours ago, AshenHaze said:

Sometimes I think that the extreme level of open-endedness is due to the nature that DE doesn't want to actively commit to damn near anything. So by making it so open-ended and cryptic, it is not only visually confusing (parading to be esoteric and profound) it is vague enough that any outcome can be the logical one.

I don't know if it's so much an intentional avoidance of commitment as it is a product of their scatterbrained development process. It's not that they're actively avoiding continuing the unresolved Twin Queens plot line because they don't want to commit to the implied resurrection of the Elder Queen, for example, they're just not interested in doing more Grineer stuff until they're interested in doing more Grineer stuff. They stopped the unresolved Narmer/Archon plot line because they wanted to talk about the Drifter instead. Then they paused the Drifter plot line because they wanted to talk about Wally. And once we move forward a little more on Wally with 1999 they'll pause the biggest existential threat to the game world (again) to talk about the Infested or Alad V again or whatever. Leaving everything open-ended doesn't feel like a goal, it feels like a side-effect of them being perpetually too busy chasing new ideas. Abandoning mechanics (like Railjack) is also a side-effect of that same perpetual busyness that affects the entire company.

[Dairaion]

On 2023-12-24 at 11:39 PM, VanFanel1980mx said:

I feel like the story has gone on too many tangents with little pay off to the big questions, probably not gonna see much in the upcoming update, so let's recap.

  Hide contents

- We start up not knowing much, we meet Lotus and Ordis, being completely new we may see Vor as the big enemy at the beginning... unless we start in Duviri or something, in which case we may even be a lot more confused.
- So we know there is the Grineer, Corpus and Infested, at first we seem to be the ones cleaning the whole mess... but then turns out we can play for the first two factions while always trying to stop the 3rd.
- Orokin and Void mumbo jumbo, Stalker, who is that guy?
- Many things like syndicates and secondary factions are there for world building and a few new warframes lore so we skip that.
- At some point some people suspected Lotus was hiding something, she kind of did but not the way we thought.
- Chains of Harrow, Wally is kind of a thing.
- Sentients become a thing, Stalker... seriously, who is that guy?
- Potato kid is a thing.
- Lotus takes a vacation with someone one would probably know little of if we never see the trailers (correct me if I am wrong.)
- Free Umbra Excalibur, Lotus doesn't even explain anything at all cuz reasons.
- As some stuff unlocks the Entrati become a thing, also, Alberto el Entrato has been thing.
- New War, we forgive Lotus because Reb can't just be replaced, Narmer are like Sentients so they have been a thing for a while, clearly not trying to be left alone, also, Wally is still not quite a thing yet.
- Zariman is a thing, at this point most of these new tilesets seem to share the whole "if you don't max rank the syndicate something terrible will happen" more or less.
- Alberto el Entrato becomes a foreground thing, kind of, Cavia is the next syndicate we have to save or something.
- We unlock the ability to customize the Cavia, there is not quite the payoff for them... yet.

Stalker is still there trying to punish people for killing anything regardless of its danger or alignment, we still don't know what's exactly his deal, Wally is there still doing things, so far one could have jumped from thinking the Grineer are the bad guys, then both them and the Corpus while the probably badder guys being the Infested, but turns out the Sentient were kind of the biggest bad guys, while that went on we could think the Orokin may have been the original bad guys but as far as we know they are all dead, but turns out Wally may be the one true bad guy... for now.

I can't say the plot thickens as it is kind of becoming a bit saturated with too many flavors by now.

We all have our favorites but i feel like we should still be reeling from the death of a grineer queen and granum's return. neither of them effected the new war. To continue the trend the new war has amounted to nothing much. maybe there needs to be two teams one that develops the content that continues the war for the origin system and the other that develops tenno story arcs cause at this point IDK wtf is going on or why House Escher and House Van Saar aren't doing anything any more.

 

Being honest duviri felt like a good reset from the chaos we just went through with New War and the Liches, which were just dropped on us with no story, but whispers just feels like answering questions i didn't have. it reminds me of when i used to party and a friend of a friend would bring jazz cabbage just to lull you into a sense a security before he starts unloading at you about his homemade mead.

[Hypernaut1]

I love Warframe, but I checked out of the lore after The New War.  I have no idea where the game is going now. We went from mysterious robot ninja mercenaries working for the Lotus organization to....i don't even know what the "story" is now. Like i don't know what we're even doing for these talking animals, but they give me loot so....

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I don't know if it's so much an intentional avoidance of commitment as it is a product of their scatterbrained development process. It's not that they're actively avoiding continuing the unresolved Twin Queens plot line because they don't want to commit to the implied resurrection of the Elder Queen, for example, they're just not interested in doing more Grineer stuff until they're interested in doing more Grineer stuff. They stopped the unresolved Narmer/Archon plot line because they wanted to talk about the Drifter instead. Then they paused the Drifter plot line because they wanted to talk about Wally. And once we move forward a little more on Wally with 1999 they'll pause the biggest existential threat to the game world (again) to talk about the Infested or Alad V again or whatever. Leaving everything open-ended doesn't feel like a goal, it feels like a side-effect of them being perpetually too busy chasing new ideas. Abandoning mechanics (like Railjack) is also a side-effect of that same perpetual busyness that affects the entire company.

When Duviri was first revealed I thought it would be the "orokin open world" tileset but closely related to Wally, that is, I thought we would advance forward into a confrontation with it, but turns out it was another tangent to connect Drifter and Operator, as it is now I can expect 1999 to only introduce Alberto while still delaying any progress towards Wally, even if it is a mainline update I can safely assume it will have as much closure as max ranking the Cavia did, which is nothing at all (poor Tagfer.)

1 hour ago, Dairaion said:

We all have our favorites but i feel like we should still be reeling from the death of a grineer queen and granum's return. neither of them effected the new war. To continue the trend the new war has amounted to nothing much. maybe there needs to be two teams one that develops the content that continues the war for the origin system and the other that develops tenno story arcs cause at this point IDK wtf is going on or why House Escher and House Van Saar aren't doing anything any more.

 

Being honest duviri felt like a good reset from the chaos we just went through with New War and the Liches, which were just dropped on us with no story, but whispers just feels like answering questions i didn't have. it reminds me of when i used to party and a friend of a friend would bring jazz cabbage just to lull you into a sense a security before he starts unloading at you about his homemade mead.

Exactly, I mean, Fortuna and other stuff can be considered world building so is OK and I would not expect it to bring too many things to the overall plot, if they ever allow us to fight Nef Anyo it would still not be something to advance the plot, even if it becomes a power struggle between him and Parvos.

[Dairaion]

12 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

When Duviri was first revealed I thought it would be the "orokin open world" tileset but closely related to Wally, that is, I thought we would advance forward into a confrontation with it, but turns out it was another tangent to connect Drifter and Operator, as it is now I can expect 1999 to only introduce Alberto while still delaying any progress towards Wally, even if it is a mainline update I can safely assume it will have as much closure as max ranking the Cavia did, which is nothing at all (poor Tagfer.)

Exactly, I mean, Fortuna and other stuff can be considered world building so is OK and I would not expect it to bring too many things to the overall plot, if they ever allow us to fight Nef Anyo it would still not be something to advance the plot, even if it becomes a power struggle between him and Parvos.

I really want railjack to be fun and not just mid tier farming.

[RyllusPurple]

Can anyone explain how Alad v is infested, then normal during new war, then infested again?

[Yrkul]

3 hours ago, Dairaion said:

why House Escher and House Van Saar aren't doing anything any more.

They're a bit tied up by Spyre Hunters at the moment.