Is Kullervo too good for Tennokai?

[Prof-Dante]

I am trying to find a reason to use Tennokai with Kullervo but I rarely activate it.

Kullervo with Ceramic dagger almost never gives me a reason to light attack...100% heavy attack efficiency? no need he has 90%...heavy attack wind up speed? he's already super fast with that.

 

so is there a reason to use it?

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Like most things, the most basic reason is if you want to, and or, enjoy it. Many weapons light attacks, light combos, I just enjoy the feel of, so would want to naturally use them anyway. One might also enjoy the timing and challenge element of hitting an attack within a window period. Then additionally, depending what Tennokai Mod you use, there are other benefits to it, like increased damage, status, so on. I am enjoying the range one quite a bit. 

That being said, obviously, if you enjoy not using it more, thats totally fair and makes sense. Wanting to/noting wanting to, are good enough reasons. 

[Prof-Dante]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Like most things, the most basic reason is if you want to, and or, enjoy it. Many weapons light attacks, light combos, I just enjoy the feel of, so would want to naturally use them anyway. One might also enjoy the timing and challenge element of hitting an attack within a window period. Then additionally, depending what Tennokai Mod you use, there are other benefits to it, like increased damage, status, so on. I am enjoying the range one quite a bit. 

That being said, obviously, if you enjoy not using it more, thats totally fair and makes sense. Wanting to/noting wanting to, are good enough reasons. 

that's fair, I can find other weapons to use with him, Ceramic dagger limits my options, despite being very strong heavy attack weapon.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

6 minutes ago, Qorvex99 said:

that's fair, I can find other weapons to use with him, Ceramic dagger limits my options, despite being very strong heavy attack weapon.

 

Well I assume you just really really like the Ceramic Dagger too, hence your decision. 

Personally, I almost had Stropha perma-stuck to my loadout for a few years. I was initially going to say character, but I actually changed Warframes more than my melee slot for the longest time. I still think the Stropha has my highest percentage time equipped out of any other item, save for categories that are really small Archwings etc)

That being said, a few melee changes here and there, encouraged me to branch out and experiment more. I am really enjoying a few Incarnon weapons with the Tennokai system, especially the Nami Solo, which Heavy allows movement, and works great with range too, (may nor be necessarily though), and now I am interesting in testing out various melees Heavy's, because I actually forget a lot of them. Oh and certain melee like Pennant feel great now, because its passive was that it got a speed increase based off combo, and whilst I dislike the stance, I enjoy the Heavy attack, and that thing turns blazing fast when its passive activates, but you don't lose combo now either... so with the Tennokai where you heavy a lot, great. Plus, the stance isn't that annoying when its speed is ramped up greatly as well. 

That being said, again, sometimes we all go through phrases where we are simply enjoying one weapon or combo way too much to care about testing and experimenting. Very valid play style. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally I haven't actively farmed the Tennokai mods, the main one I use is Condition's Perfection (the status one), but given that I don't normally run heavy attack builds, it's good enough, and with the additional power from Kullervo's 1, I'd say it's a perfectly valid playstyle. "too good?" nah, just a lot of fun if you like heavy attacks and big numbers.

[(NSW)Greybones]

I don’t think it’s odd if something else in your kit means you don’t need to mod a certain way elsewhere; it frees up spare slots or capacity or whatever for something else. Changing one piece of a loadout can mean you’re suddenly reconsidering how you’ve modded everything else for the content you’re doing

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Qorvex99 said:

I am trying to find a reason to use Tennokai with Kullervo but I rarely activate it.

I don't fine Kullervo + Tennokai working at all.

If you care about speed then it's not much faster (if at all).

If you care about combos then kullervo already can gain a lot of combo.

Then you have random chance to get (except ever 4th attack, more later). So you get N combo without people around and just waste Tennokai stuff.

On every 4th attack it's still forces you to certain pattern that I hate. We are supposed to fight enemies not some timers!

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Personally, I almost had Stropha perma-stuck to my loadout for a few years. I was initially going to say character, but I actually changed Warframes more than my melee slot for the longest time. I still think the Stropha has my highest percentage time equipped out of any other item, save for categories that are really small Archwings etc)

I remember Limbo + space program sonicor. haha

 

[Sojufueled]

Option B: Use that exilus slot for extra parry angle instead.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Sojufueled said:

Option B: Use that exilus slot for extra parry angle instead.

[Xzorn]

I haven't tried Tennokai yet. I was very focused on all the normal melee changes for a bit.

Kullervo is one of the new frames I really like. It's a shame they gave him Overguard which makes no sense for melee since Blocking doesn't work.
I think I talked about this a hundred times over the years due to Rhino. It feels like DE doesn't get their own interaction of bugs/flaws.

Even though he has the best melee kit otherwise he still falls under other frames who aren't restricted to melee abilities.
Valkyr had the same issue though she's doing better these days.

[ominumi]

Currently we don't have a melee weapon that can work well enough to mass spam heavy attack. At the same time kullivo teleport is still single target. I already stop using heavy attack during Tennokai. Short hop Heavy Slam has a bigger AoE.

[SneakyErvin]

Zero reason to actually tennokai on him, no matter the weapon.

I currently run a permanent 10x combo Ceramic Dagger on him in one build, soley built for HA spamming through Wrathful Advance. Tennokai mod used is the one that increases chance to 50% while adding passive heavy attack crit damage. I never worry about the Tennokai window. I never really melee either with the build, just HA spamming. Using corrosive melee arcane.

My second setup is with a Viral+Electric Dual Ichor. I never use Tennokai actively there either due to the passive efficiency I already get with Kullervo. This build plays more like regular melee, with Wrathful Advance used to keep the buff up and to insta kill heavier things like Acolytes or Voidrigs. Insane damage with the electric melee arcane that results in status spread. It practically leaves corpses all over the map due to the cloud on kill counting as a melee kill when it kills through spreading statuses, so it spreads itself to wherever it lands a kill. It is also a constant healing and OG battery for my pet with primed pack leader.

I also love Kullervo for the fact that you can completely skip crit chance mods and still reach absurdly high tiers of red crits. I'm at around 565% final crit with Wrathful Advance+Avenger in my builds. And my Ceramix Dagger sits at 9x crit damage with Tenacious Bond and Dual Ichor sits at x15 before the bonus crit tiers are added.

[Prof-Dante]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Zero reason to actually tennokai on him, no matter the weapon.

I currently run a permanent 10x combo Ceramic Dagger on him in one build, soley built for HA spamming through Wrathful Advance. Tennokai mod used is the one that increases chance to 50% while adding passive heavy attack crit damage. I never worry about the Tennokai window. I never really melee either with the build, just HA spamming. Using corrosive melee arcane.

My second setup is with a Viral+Electric Dual Ichor. I never use Tennokai actively there either due to the passive efficiency I already get with Kullervo. This build plays more like regular melee, with Wrathful Advance used to keep the buff up and to insta kill heavier things like Acolytes or Voidrigs. Insane damage with the electric melee arcane that results in status spread. It practically leaves corpses all over the map due to the cloud on kill counting as a melee kill when it kills through spreading statuses, so it spreads itself to wherever it lands a kill. It is also a constant healing and OG battery for my pet with primed pack leader.

I also love Kullervo for the fact that you can completely skip crit chance mods and still reach absurdly high tiers of red crits. I'm at around 565% final crit with Wrathful Advance+Avenger in my builds. And my Ceramix Dagger sits at 9x crit damage with Tenacious Bond and Dual Ichor sits at x15 before the bonus crit tiers are added.

anyone tried Wrathful advance plus Exodia force? I hear it got tweaked a little but it's still powerful.

I'm debating whether to use a Zaw or keep my Ceramic...ngl loosing that beautiful 19.1x critical multiplier on Ceramic is tough, unless it's possible to match it with a Zaw Riven.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Qorvex99

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Qorvex99 said:

anyone tried Wrathful advance plus Exodia force? I hear it got tweaked a little but it's still powerful.

I'm debating whether to use a Zaw or keep my Ceramic...ngl loosing that beautiful 19.1x critical multiplier on Ceramic is tough, unless it's possible to match it with a Zaw Riven.

Have not tried Force yet. No crit sync for it afaik. Not sure if it is worth it or needed since he has access to AoE on Wrathful Advance through Curse which already kills everything. 

19.1x crit damage on Ceramic Dagger!? Damn man! Good crit roll on the riven huh? I still need crit damage on my riven, mostly went for initial combo to start with so I dont need to kill many mobs to reach the incarnon transition. Think I currently need to kill like 2 enemies with my primary to hit 6x combo. But damn, 19.1x crit, that is crazy!

[Tiltskillet]

20 hours ago, Qorvex99 said:

anyone tried Wrathful advance plus Exodia force?

I use this occasionally with a gas build, similar to this:

 

[Prof-Dante]

20 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I use this occasionally with a gas build, similar to this:

 

I came up with a similar one using Edun and melee influence, I'm spreading so much electric procs and crits I'm practically classified as a Gyre now.
couple with one of the tennogen skins that look like a trident, my Kullervo looks like a cool pirate kraken with neptune's trident.

[SneakyErvin]

18 minutes ago, Qorvex99 said:

I came up with a similar one using Edun and melee influence, I'm spreading so much electric procs and crits I'm practically classified as a Gyre now.
couple with one of the tennogen skins that look like a trident, my Kullervo looks like a cool pirate kraken with neptune's trident.

Hmmm. Must test Edun tomorrow when I can grab another Melee Arcane Adapter. Sounds interesting since I already love melee influence.