How DE is not even trying to fix problems with Warframes

[NovaLP]

Let me start my point with a list of Warframes that are in desperate need of help.

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Thats 15 Warframes at the time of writing this.
As someone who likes to make builds for alot of different Warframes and have them function on most of the Star Chart, these make the List for being a pain to work around decisions that are outdated or didn't make sense in the first place.

I always had in mind "they'll get a rework some day", but looking at DE's current rework frequency, that might just be a 15 to 20 year wait for any of those Warframes to get their time in the spotlight.

It hit me when I was trying to build Sevagoth (again)...

https://imgur.com/a/7v2U28a

these are the base Stats of Sevagoths Shadow. He has a giant hitbox, cannot use the Augur mod set bonus, has no built in DR of any type and no armor, health or healing boost built into his kit.
All this while writing his his desc.: "He and his Shadow deal heavy damage and have high survivability"
Is that some sort of joke? The heavy damage part is something i cannot deny but most of his builds consist of working around his weak survivability.

Nothing a small number change can't fix tho... but where are they?

Nearly every other game frequently balances their chars and gear so players don't have to wait a lifetime for their fav char to see the light of day. Something that would help Warframe immensly.

Sevagoth, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara and Vauban for example would benefit from small number changes in some of their abilities or base stats without a needing full rework.

So where is the problem?

Where is the problem of buffing Sevagoths Shadow base health by 150 for example or Hildryn's Balefires crit chance by 5% or soo many other things.

[Raarsi]

While they've been slowly cracking away at it (Valkyr's up next IIRC), it's just more financially beneficial to make more frames rather than what comes out to losing money attempting to readjust older frames to more modern content.

That doesn't justify it of course, but that's usually been the stated reason as to why.

[quxier]

24 minutes ago, NovaLP said:

It hit me when I was trying to build Sevagoth (again)...

https://imgur.com/a/7v2U28a

these are the base Stats of Sevagoths Shadow. He has a giant hitbox, cannot use the Augur mod set bonus, has no built in DR of any type and no armor, health or healing boost built into his kit.
All this while writing his his desc.: "He and his Shadow deal heavy damage and have high survivability"
Is that some sort of joke? The heavy damage part is something i cannot deny but most of his builds consist of working around his weak survivability.

Have you considered using built in ability of Sevagoth named Gloom? I mean it's not for all situations but you get at base 5% life steal per damage (not even kills). And when you die as Shadow you can gain 20 kills to transform again.

29 minutes ago, NovaLP said:

 

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Without more details on each frame it's hard to say what's wrong with those frames.

[Joezone619]

47 minutes ago, NovaLP said:

Let me start my point with a list of Warframes that are in desperate need of help.

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Its funny how Nyx and Ember both recieved reworks already, but they were both inadequate. Nyx's was just flat out not enough, and Ember's loses the fire theme on the alt, rocks from the sky that make fire is not a fire based ability to me.

I agree wholeheartedly, some on the list need more work then others but generally almost all of them have many issues that need to be solved. We need 1 big update that is just a bunch of warframes being reworked.

 

37 minutes ago, Raarsi said:

While they've been slowly cracking away at it (Valkyr's up next IIRC)

Side note: Where did you hear that valkyr is up next. I'd love her to finally get a rework, her 1st is outdated and her 3rd needs an augment to be considered worth the 5 energy it takes.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, Raarsi said:

(Valkyr's up next IIRC)

[Citation Needed]

2 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Let me start my point with a list of Warframes that are in desperate need of help.

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Ember doesn't need a rework, just some tweaks. Her overall kit is healthy and post-game Steel Path viable, but it requires far too much micromanagement by modern standards. Ivara is perfectly fine, where are you getting the idea that she needs a rework?

Edited January 8 by Hexerin

[Iedarus]

"oBeRon is fiNE! jUsT uSe arCane enERGizE! hE cAn dAmAge AnD hEal!" ~Mfs who never played him in Steel Path.

 

On 2024-01-07 at 11:50 PM, quxier said:

Have you considered using built in ability of Sevagoth named Gloom? I mean it's not for all situations but you get at base 5% life steal per damage (not even kills). And when you die as Shadow you can gain 20 kills to transform again.

This is true.

On 2024-01-07 at 11:50 PM, quxier said:

Without more details on each frame it's hard to say what's wrong with those frames.

Oberon:

Hallowed Ground codependency on top of renewal uptime not having a drain cap with no innate energy economy makes him an energy hog. Reckoning? More like press this button to maybe strip armor on an enemy assuming the tileset geometry doesn't cause the forced Hallowed Ground interaction to bug out. Smite, the button you will rarely get value out of because so few enemies are so high HP that Smite will actually do good damage off of them. It only sees real use on Anatomizers and bosses. His passive?

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 1 hora, Hexerin dijo:

Ivara is perfectly fine, where are you getting the idea that she needs a rework?

I think Ivara needs some adjustments, her noise arrow I have no idea what it's for, I've already tried several things and I don't really see a use for it, her camouflage has 3 instances of energy drain (per second, to move and attack melee ), browser, for some reason, scales negatively with duration and the sagebrush bow takes about half a minute to charge horizontal fire.

[Hexerin]

6 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I think Ivara needs some adjustments, her noise arrow I have no idea what it's for, I've already tried several things and I don't really see a use for it, her camouflage has 3 instances of energy drain (per second, to move and attack melee ), browser, for some reason, scales negatively with duration and the sagebrush bow takes about half a minute to charge horizontal fire.

So because you don't know how she works, you think she needs a rework? What a bad take.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

3 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Let me start my point with a list of Warframes that are in desperate need of help.

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Its funny how Nyx and Ember both recieved reworks already, but they were both inadequate. Nyx's was just flat out not enough, and Ember's loses the fire theme on the alt, rocks from the sky that make fire is not a fire based ability to me.

Think of it like this (from another game Advent rising):

Quote

A: they like throwing rocks

B: rocks?

A: Meteorites.

 

9 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

the sagebrush bow takes about half a minute to charge horizontal fire.

It can be moded for faster charges afair. Mine doesn't take 30 seconds (is it bug, heh).

3 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

10 minutes ago, --Leyenda-yight6 said:

I think Ivara needs some adjustments, her noise arrow I have no idea what it's for, I've already tried several things and I don't really see a use for it, her camouflage has 3 instances of energy drain (per second, to move and attack melee ), browser, for some reason, scales negatively with duration and the sagebrush bow takes about half a minute to charge horizontal fire.

So because you don't know how she works, you think she needs a rework? What a bad take.

Still, Noise arrow is not great. I don't think I've used it in serious scenarios.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 10 minutos, Hexerin dijo:

So because you don't know how she works, you think she needs a rework? What a bad take.

It is not a rework, if not adjustments, but I advise you one thing: never assume anything about anyone, you don't know me, nor do I know you, I have used Ivara and I have been testing her a lot at different levels, I have an idea of how it works.

hace 6 minutos, quxier dijo:

It can be moded for faster charges afair. Mine doesn't take 30 seconds (is it bug, heh).

I was partly exaggerating, but it takes as long as recharging the trumna.

Although I had a bug with Kullervo's shotgun (I forget the name), that reloading was so slow that it was impossible to use it again during the entire mission.

Edited January 8 by --Leyenda-yight6

[Waeleto]

You did NOT just put hildryn and sevagoth with THOSE warframes right ? you must be joking 

[Raarsi]

8 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Side note: Where did you hear that valkyr is up next. I'd love her to finally get a rework, her 1st is outdated and her 3rd needs an augment to be considered worth the 5 energy it takes.

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

[Citation Needed]

I'm pretty sure Pablo recently mentioned Valkyr since I remembered seeing that and thinking about how Valkyr was an interesting choice and wondering why he wasn't going for Inaros next since Valkyr is still vaguely workable when effectively every aspect Inaros is some sort of terrible in this day and age.  Probably doesn't help that I don't have a twitter account anymore to double check this stuff, hence the "IIRC".

10 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

So may as well go through the OP's list while I'm still paying attention to this thread:

• Inaros definitely needs an overhaul, currently being a health sponge without more reliable on-demand self-healing.  I know I made a rework thread about it before detailing that.
• Loki could use one; while he's a solid one-trick pony with effectively permanent invisibility, that trick is pretty underwhelming these days, his decoys are pointless, and his passive is only good for that one riven cracking scenario.
• Limbo just needs his first ability changed to a more basic buff/debuff system without yeeting things away from dps.
• Caliban I honestly think doesn't need a rework, but mostly because I only see his fourth ability as a "damage first, effect second" ability.  His first is a self-heal that happens to do damage, his second is a CC that happens to do damage, and his third is a flak maneuver meant to get enemies off of you; none of these abilities are the best at what they're intended to do, but they're by no means the worst either.
• Sevagoth I think just needs the limit on his augment either removed or expanded to at least six or seven shadows active at a time.  The only reason I could think of there being such a harsh limit on it would be technical issues, but I'd love to see some sort of dev commentary regarding it.
• Valkyr definitely needs an overhaul, agreeing with most of the points mentioned in this thread.
• Nyx I feel like has been having an identity crisis ever since the eximus rework.  Maybe if her passive was changed to having her abilities bypass overguards that that might help.
• Ember I don't really mind currently.  You either build her as a standard nuke frame, or you build her for armor stripping and personal defense.  Maybe if they allowed her Fireball to also remove a portion of her heat buildup based on the amount of charge-up and do increased damage based off the amount of heat gauge removed.
• Oberon is sorta in the same category as Frost of being pulled in too many directions and not really being good at any one thing.  Only difference that Frost almost seems to be getting over it...almost...
• Ash just needs Bladestorm to be changed to a channeled "deal execute damage on random enemy in view every second" ability.  He could use some other things like the Shuriken augment being baseline, Smoke Bomb creating a field that would grant invisibility to allies and blindness to enemies, and Teleport to have something extra tied to it (aoe slash damage, auto-execute, literally anything extra), although it's definitely Bladestorm that is the bigger issue with him.
• Hildryn doesn't need a rework, but definitely some minor tweaking, like her fourth ability buffing the damage of her Balefire exalted by some extreme amount since that's the only weapon you can use while channeling it.
• Ivara I guess could use some tweaks like removing the speed penalty on Prowl, but I don't have enough experience on her to know exactly what else she needs.
• Trinity I've never fully understood as to why players keep asking for an overhaul on her.  I guess she's become a case of "too much healing is bad" and other frames can do better with less, I'm not sure.
• Vauban's fine, he just requires being stationary and keeping enemies under control.
• Chroma definitely needs a rework.  I did like one that was put on the forums not too long ago that suggested making Vex Armor his passive and giving him a new third ability.

I'd also add Atlas to the list as well since the only thing that actually works with him are Landslide and his passive (just stay on the ground).

[Yasha-7HS]

11 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

Almost half of the Warframes you listed only need minor tweaks. Absorb's method of energy drain is antiquated, Ember's overheat mechanic needs a cap to its build speed and probably a more useful 1, Oberon needs renewal to have a cap of energy drain(because too many allies makes his energy pool completely unsustainable), and Hildryn just needs a reason to use her 4 at all. 

Vauban and Ivara are both very good Warframes, and have few problems in their kit. 

11 hours ago, NovaLP said:

these are the base Stats of Sevagoths Shadow. He has a giant hitbox, cannot use the Augur mod set bonus, has no built in DR of any type and no armor, health or healing boost built into his kit.

He does, in fact, have healing through both Gloom from the main Warframe and Consume from the Shadow's abilities. Though, he does not, of course, have that much eHP at base which is an issue as lifesteal without health to heal isn't very useful. 

However in total I agree. DE seems to take a very long time looking at one Warframe and then reworking small parts of their kit, but numerous Warframes need small adjustments to make them better in the grand scheme and it doesn't take much time to figure out what to fix where. Especially when they we have other examples to work on, like Gloom vs. Renewal and Ember's passive, for example. A drain cap was one of the best advents for Warframe abilities and allows it to scale with the ever increasing amount of enemies AND allies we have in the game in one space, and allows a specific 'upper bound' for energy economy. 

I think it could be DE trying to incentivize people to use the 'new hotness' but people who don't enjoy the overall design and feel of a new frame will just be annoyed that what they return to has been power crept. Especially when DE designs content around the more powerful abilities of new frames. This method of balancing works poorly in even games like Overwatch where it's somewhat ok for a character to fall behind in, because the variety comes from the shifty meta and character hierarchy struggles specifically.

Oberon: 

Spoiler

  

8 hours ago, Iedarus said:

"oBeRon is fiNE! jUsT uSe arCane enERGizE! hE cAn dAmAge AnD hEal!" ~Mfs who never played him in Steel Path.

 There are builds that use renewal, hunter recovery and quick thinking to tank steel path for around an hour without much issue at all. 

8 hours ago, Iedarus said:

Hallowed Ground codependency on top of renewal uptime not having a drain cap with no innate energy economy makes him an energy hog.

This I've only found an issue with when I'm with a Nekros or Revenant, and have a dozen or more renewal targets that all perpetually need healing. Otherwise, Hallowed Ground recasting has never really been a problem, but:

8 hours ago, Iedarus said:

Reckoning? More like press this button to maybe strip armor on an enemy assuming the tileset geometry doesn't cause the forced Hallowed Ground interaction to bug out.

This definitely needs to be fixed and I've seen it happen too many times. I'm sure people more fond of Oberon have already suggested it either be innate to reckoning or apply whenever oberon is standing on hallowed ground. 

8 hours ago, Iedarus said:

Smite, the button you will rarely get value out of because so few enemies are so high HP that Smite will actually do good damage off of them.

This ability is plenty powerful with any global damage increase, like arachne, holster buffs, or naramon. Honestly, it's actually also one of my favorite subsumes as well due to what it does. If you really want to stretch it, it's also a flat critical chance buff and cheap CC due to its procs. If it were changed its interaction with global damage buffs would likely also need changes, and I don't like the idea of DE messing with that interaction to make it worse, but what would you change with smite? 

 

Edited January 8 by Yasha-7HS

[wootdahnoot]

Oberon's passive sadly has been made useless, it used to be unique and somewhat okay? but since companions now revive themselves its basically useless. Even before the companion rework his passive was already outdated due to panzer vulp being a thing and reviving itself.

- Smite is good, needs a few tweaks and maybe a new feature so it can be good but otherwise its fine. 
My idea of making this more viable is perhaps make it so that enemies affected by SMITE plant a plot of HALLOWED GROUND upon dying so that you have more grass around, the thing Oberons kit is based around.

- Hallowed Ground is eh, clunky, needing to cast his 4 to armor strip foes who are in the grass is just...not working unless you have a lot of range or coat the entire room in grass. The game has become too mobile for Oberon.

- Renewal needs perhaps more buffs and higher numbers to be good, Wisp easily outheals Oberon and she has no reason to have that much healing, the added health she provides is also really nice, Oberon just gives a bit of armor and bleedout time, which, why would we need bleedout time? Its unique but shouldnt the point be to just, not die? The drain he has on renewal is awful and can empty your energy pool in seconds if you arent careful

-Reckoning is cool, feels a bit weak though, sure it can armor strip, ccs enemies and has a 50% health orb drop but it lacks any power? It does no damage and its a expensive armor strip, since you need to cast 2 abilities, that also have really limited range.

I went on a bit of a ramble, Oberon is by far my most played frame, sitting at 22,1% with my next in line most played being excal umbra at 10.3%, I love the Nature druid paladin goat bull warframe, hes really awesome looking and has a unique kit, sadly, hes not up to speed anymore, hes tedious to get now. (Rebecca has said that Oberon wont be getting any touch ups and it kinda broke my heart ngl (She said this in the witw launch stream she did))

ANYHOW! LEts wrap this up here, a lot of frames need touch ups, I wrote this very quickly so I mightve been wrong somewhere, apologies if i did. 

Have a lovely day/evening/afternoon, Tenno! <3

[NovaLP]

On 2024-01-07 at 11:50 PM, quxier said:

Have you considered using built in ability of Sevagoth named Gloom?

1) Have you heard of Overguard

2) Shadow doesn't have access to gloom and is thus bound to the range of Sevagoth while Gloom is active

3) Lifesteal flies out the window if the base stats don't support the char in taking a hit or two

And only asking to fix the third point would already help massivly

that was the entire point of the post, yes Sevagoth has lifesteal but NO health and NO Armor to work with it

 

On 2024-01-08 at 10:55 AM, Yasha-7HS said:

Almost half of the Warframes you listed only need minor tweaks.

And thats my point, either throw in minor tweaks once every update or put them all in one big update and call it a day. It would solve soo many problems but nah.

The funny thing is, it wouldn't even take time to do that. If DE is truly working as big team on wf and every minor decision needs to be shared with the entirety of wf staff (which i doubt but has been stated multiple times to work like that). 10 years of potential wait for reworks can be summed up in a 10 minute meeting, where they just up the numbers on a few frames a bit.

[Iedarus]

5 hours ago, Yasha-7HS said:

 

  Hide contents

  

 There are builds that use renewal, hunter recovery and quick thinking to tank steel path for around an hour without much issue at all. 

This I've only found an issue with when I'm with a Nekros or Revenant, and have a dozen or more renewal targets that all perpetually need healing. Otherwise, Hallowed Ground recasting has never really been a problem, but:

This definitely needs to be fixed and I've seen it happen too many times. I'm sure people more fond of Oberon have already suggested it either be innate to reckoning or apply whenever oberon is standing on hallowed ground. 

This ability is plenty powerful with any global damage increase, like arachne, holster buffs, or naramon. Honestly, it's actually also one of my favorite subsumes as well due to what it does. If you really want to stretch it, it's also a flat critical chance buff and cheap CC due to its procs. If it were changed its interaction with global damage buffs would likely also need changes, and I don't like the idea of DE messing with that interaction to make it worse, but what would you change with smite? 

 

I can keep Renewal up with Equilibrium and Energize, but it doesn't change the fact that Oberon becomes stretched thin for mod/arcane slots when these are literally mandatory to keep his energy economy in the green. Also I should have mentioned in that post that the recasting of Hallowed Ground becomes a headache when your teammates get nullified since they can't get those buffs back.

Honestly, just get rid of the Hallowed Ground codependency; it doesn't serve any other purpose than draining even more of Oberon's energy. Remember, he has to compete with behemoths like Wisp and Citrine. This mechanic is a relic of a bygone age.

As for Smite, I've been using Topaz Archon Shards to buff my ability damage which does help especially with his Overextended 2, but it still doesn't feel very impactful unless you specifically build for it or spam it off a very high hp target. That leads us right back to Oberon feeling starved for mod slots. I'm also unsure how Naramon benefits Smite unless the melee damage buff affects it.

Here's a full rework idea I just posted the other day.

[NovaLP]

2 hours ago, Qriist said:

The list above shows dozens of tweaks to every single frame that you mentioned, all within the last few years. Most frames have way more patchnotes to display than I bothered to screenshot, too. That's not even going into the massive stat overhaul we just got with Dagath.

I just went through em all and 95% of those "tweaks" are fixes and not tweaks. Also the Stat Overhaul actually didn't change anything, it was just there to clear up confusion of stat increases while modding.
Some frames even got weaker because of the Stat Overhaul, they actually buffed and then heavily nerfed chroma a few Hotfixes later in Abyss of Dagath.

[Harutomata]

7 hours ago, Raarsi said:

Nyx I feel like has been having an identity crisis ever since the eximus rework.  Maybe if her passive was changed to having her abilities bypass overguards that that might help.

18 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

All threat based abilities in the game which alter threat levels affect enemies with Overguard (Octavia, Titania, Loki), except Nyx's Chaos. It either has to be an oversight by DE or they just really hate Nyx for some reason. Chaos doesn't fully work on Overguarded enemies (doesn't directly affect eximi, so if all the remaining enemies are eximi, they target Nyx instead of each other for better explanation).
I think she needs a rework, and I'm going to continue not to play her until DE changes something. Playing flawed, outdated frames just alters statistics and makes DE believe the said frames are doing fine. I know just me thinking this isn't going to help with how many warframe players there are, but I'm going to do it anyway.
Make her CC function like it should, improve her armor strip, add more utility in form of support like orbs and shield regen for her and the squad, and she'd already be a lot better warframe. Give Chaos ability strength scaling so that the enemies do more damage to each other.
Absorb is like Hydroid's puddle, and its augment removes the movement part from warframe. Just put an armor strip on Revenant at that point.

Oberon got powercrept by Wisp, since she effectively adds more EHP to squad members without needing to channel her ability to heal them, and with the pet rework his passive isn't looking anything special either.
DE needs to change something either about enemy damage scaling at higher levels, or change how HP heals work, because the higher level you go the more frames get downed from any damage instance to health. This isn't only a problem for Oberon, but any other support frames which used to support by HP heals, and a problem for any helminth ability that heals HP.

Ember needs level scaling (along with Volt and Frost and many old frames), and her 1st reworked to shoot increasingly larger fireballs in combo without the charge time (that it was admitted many times isn't a good mechanic), and Fire Blast to work more like an Arson Eximus fire blast, so that it actually hits the enemies.

Some of those other frames could use some changes too, but it'd be a long reply to write all of them. I have rework ideas for many warframes, maybe I'm going to post them all in a thread some day.
With Vauban Prime being my most played warframe I think he's actually doing well enough though, lot better than many of the other warframes mentioned.

Also people need to stop saying that reworks are not profitable for DE at all, because the primes are possible to purchase through regal aya at prime resurgence, and all the frames which are old enough to be bad have deluxe collections. Probably many people bought the Hydroid deluxe after his rework.
I'm personally more interested in reworks than the release of new warframes.

Edited January 8 by Harutomata

[(PSN)Sentiel]

At first I was like "YOU LEAVE MY NYX ALONE!" but then I realized you're right.

Also, kudos for not forgetting Caliban.

[NovaLP]

23 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Just because they aren't the tweaks you want doesn't mean they aren't tweaks.

Yes a fix and a tweak are both adjustments, but in context to the given topic. A fix is an adjustment (a change) of something unintended like a bug or an exploit, a tweak is a minor adjustment (also a change) in functionality regardless of if it fixes an unexpected outcome or not.

So I still stand by that "tweaks" are the right word for what I intended to say, but for you to understand what I mean, let me rephrase.

I want minor but frequent adjustments to functionality and power of warframes and even gear in some cases like (melee stances)

If there is a better word for what I intended to say feel free to let me know since I am not a native english speaker.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Harutomata said:

All threat based abilities in the game which alter threat levels affect enemies with Overguard (Octavia, Titania, Loki), except Nyx's Chaos. It either has to be an oversight by DE or they just really hate Nyx for some reason. Chaos doesn't fully work on Overguarded enemies (doesn't directly affect eximi, so if all the remaining enemies are eximi, they target Nyx instead of each other for better explanation).

Arguably an oversight, and probably a lack of review on Chaos and many other CC abilities since Eximus Reborn...but I don't think it's hating Nyx.  Chaos just works nearly the same as radiation on enemy perception. (Probably a copypasta of the mechanic.)

Decoy and (I think...I don't play Octavia...) Mallet OTOH produce a minion with  high threat, so are more likely to draw enemy attention.  Although even so, enemies may still attack Tenno anyway.  Lantern needs an enemy target to be used, and Overguarded units can't be targeted or neutralized by its pacification effect.  If there is a valid Lantern target it does get some threat level, but again, not an  an ironclad guarantee eximus will attack it instead of Titania.

If you're thinking of Irradiating Disarm, that one comes closest to completely overriding enemy AI and making enemies ignore targets besides each other.  I don't think it's 100%, but it's at least very close.  And yet it still doesn't affect targets through Overguard directly.  So it's in the same boat as Chaos in your "all remaining enemies are eximus" situation.

 

Edited January 8 by Tiltskillet

[(PSN)Unstar]

21 hours ago, NovaLP said:

Let me start my point with a list of Warframes that are in desperate need of help.

Inaros, Loki, Limbo, Caliban, Sevagoth, Valkyr, Nyx, Ember, Oberon, Ash, Hildryn, Ivara, Trinity, Vauban, Chroma

You have numerous Warframes in this list that are doing absolutely great right now.  I'm not an expert on every single Warframe, but Ash, Hildryn, and Ivara are in great shape.  And the fact that you included them on this list makes me doubt your claims about many of the others.

I would highly recommend that you get on YouTube and search for build videos showcasing what these frames can do.  You will definitely be surprised.

[(XBOX)TagDatFatCat]

I certainly agree, but don't really see any problem with Vauban, except that maybe Vector Pad and Theater Coil could be something else and Tesla Nervos charge mechanic could be removed... but keep the juggle animation tho, that's nice! 

People in this game and I can't stretch this enought(!), just hate playing CC, debuff and support, everyone wants to single handely nuke the room... but then not be able to defend the objective or survive when scaling gets crazy, lol

[Petergeist00]

17 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Ash, Hildryn, and Ivara are in great shape.

Ash in great shape? he literally needs augments to make 2 of his abilities work and using bladestorm in a public lobby is one of the most frustrating experiences a player can have in this game.

Bladestorm is only really useful in solo high level content (levels 1000+, specifically against corrupted and grineer), in every other content of the game bladestorm is just pointless, having an ability capable of doing 2m or 3m of true damage to 2 enemies every second doesn't matter if almost every decent warframe have some kind of AoE easier to use and that deals less damage BUT that less damage is more than enough to kill more enemies simultaneously.

And Building for bladestorm means that you must use Arcane Trickery in your build to compensate for the poor scaling of smoke screen since you will need a reliable source of survivability, resulting in 2 completely useless abilities (shuriken and smoke screen) in his "Main build". *Reminder that using Shuriken augment with a bladestorm build is also useless, since you will deal true damage mainly.

Requiring a full set of an Arcane just to work with his main build is not good, because what if a new player wants to play him? yeah he is gonna drop Ash cuz it is not funny to play. and requiring an arcane set just to work is just bad design.

and don't get me started on Bladestorm bugged af targeting system where if an enemy is slightly behind a cover, that cover breaks the LoS.

Also Torid incarnon, Glaive Prime and a lot of meta weapons makes Ash totally useless.

There is a reason Ash is one of the least played warframes in this game (stats shared by DE some years ago, there weren't any changes to him so i assume the situation hasn't changed and he is still one of the least played frames) let's not ignore that please, he needs QoL and tweaks. (He also has one of the best passives for this meta, a passive that buffs bleed damage and it is multiplicative with faction mods, and still he is not meta take a wild guess why)

[Tiltskillet]

39 minutes ago, Petergeist00 said:

There is a reason Ash is one of the least played warframes in this game (stats shared by DE some years ago, there weren't any changes to him so i assume the situation hasn't changed and he is still one of the least played frames)

Kind of in the middle or upper middle in 2022, the most recent stats we have:

https://www.warframe.com/2022stats

Which looks awful until you realize how low the average usage is, with a few frames dominating.  Better visualization here, at least for me:

We don't have stats for 2023...hopefully coming soon.  I could kind of see Ash going up a little bit, between harder content and the longstanding Bladestorm bug that made it way more powerful for a while.  Or maybe not, as a frame like Kullervo could have stolen a ton of players from him.

I'm not suggesting Ash is in great shape in either case.  Not even close to an expert on him, but for me he's  in the large "needs attention" category.