Sanctum Radiation mods open up another Steel Path viable status combo.

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That's ridiculous. You have two completely dead mods on your Glaive (since you prime with Viral), and you strip 100% of the enemies armor with your primer, completely mooting the point of using Grineer as targets.

You see this statement?

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You build exclusively with Grineer in mind, because anything that effectively deals with Grineer will simply steamroll all the other factions as well.

This is not really true.

Why does Cerata generalize pretty well against all factions?

8 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

and you strip 100% of the enemies armor with your primer, completely mooting the point of using Grineer as targets.

Because I can do what you wrote very easily. Of course it moots the point of using Grineer as targets you dummy! That's the whole point! And because its Toxin, it moots the point of Corpus targets too, doesn't it? That is not the case for Slash.

But yes, please, tell me how to mod the Glaive Prime to your specifications. We can run the same experiment again and find that Cerata performs pretty well across factions... again.

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

Why does Cerata generalize pretty well against all factions?

It does not. At all.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Toxic_Ancient

Terrible against Infested. Terrible against armor.

[nslay]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

It does not. At all.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Toxic_Ancient

Terrible against Infested. Terrible against armor.

Yes, OK, but where Slash has no DoT damage booster beyond base damage and faction damage, the Toxin DoT scales with mods like Primed Fever Strike... easily eating or surpassing such a penalty factor.

Now that I think of it... in regards to the 2 Viral mods on my Glaive Prime

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Gokstad_Officer

I see 3 +s for Viral there. That's the highest armor non-Zeplen unit in the game... and yes I know we never see Steel Path Exo Gokstad Officers in practice. It's an academic exercise!

[nslay]

40 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That's ridiculous. You have two completely dead mods on your Glaive (since you prime with Viral), and you strip 100% of the enemies armor with your primer, completely mooting the point of using Grineer as targets.

OK, here's what I'll do... I'll do another experiment but I'll drop the Cold mod for something like Spoiled Strike or maybe Primed Corpus Faction mod to try to help the Glaive Prime beat the Corpus faster.

In addition to that... I'll spawn Toxic Ancient Eximus.

We can compare. I actually don't know what will happen. The Glaive Prime will have a Toxin damage component which will help against the Corpus. And, of course, I will spray all enemies the same way with Phage as I do when using Cerata.

Sound good to you?

EDIT: Give me some time though. I have stuff to do!

Edited January 19 by nslay

[Traumtulpe]

Dude, if you're removing 100% of the targets armor you can kill those enemies with a rusty fork, and if you don't your Cerata does zero damage. Here's what glaives look like with no priming at all:

[nslay]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Dude, if you're removing 100% of the targets armor you can kill those enemies with a rusty fork, and if you don't your Cerata does zero damage. Here's what glaives look like with no priming at all:

The point is that you can play with the Cerata the same exact way against all factions and it remains very effective against all of them. One single set of equipment to rule them all. You prime all of factions (at least I do) with Phage the same exact way and toss the Cerata... or hilariously prime them after Toxin DoT and watch them melt. The Slash damage type doesn't work that well against the shielded enemies (especially with Guardian Eximus) and such priming doesn't do anything until shields are stripped.

[Traumtulpe]

You are still priming every enemy one by one with a single target primer, and you prime with 14 Corrosive procs and 10 Viral procs. And you still have two dead mods on your Glaive. Your "test" is hilariously biased and impractical.

How about you prime with Magnetic and Viral instead of Corrosive and Viral? Or how about you don't use a Glaive at all, since you point a gun at every single enemy for 5 seconds anyhow, at that point anything in your crosshairs should long be dead.

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You are still priming every enemy one by one with a single target primer, and you prime with 14 Corrosive procs and 10 Viral procs. And you still have two dead mods on your Glaive. Your "test" is hilariously biased and impractical.

Given that base Viral or base Corrosive weapons are rare to begin with, you have a little bit of a point with single target weapons. But Phage is a beam shotgun with punch through. This is hardly "single target" in the sense of, say, a semi-auto weapon. It is very easy to prime large groups of enemies with Phage (or Catabolyst as a secondary).

What's biased and impractical about what I showed you? I want to improve it for you! I invited you several times to tell me how to change the mods of Glaive Prime. What else would you like me to do? I will do it for you. And you know, I'm even going to try to give Glaive Prime and advantage as highlighted in a previous post.

Don't like 14 Corrosive Stacks? Good thing I had this discussion before in the past and did it before Green shards existed with this old video

Spoiler

 

Heck, I've been playing Cerata as my primary weapon for more than a year now after discovering how surprisingly general it is.

 

5 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

How about you prime with Magnetic and Viral instead of Corrosive and Viral? Or how about you don't use a Glaive at all, since you point a gun at every single enemy for 5 seconds anyhow, at that point anything in your crosshairs should long be dead.

Because unlike Magnetic procs, Viral procs and Corrosive procs are useful against all factions and enemies. Otherwise yes, I might be playing Glaive Prime with a Magnetic priming weapon today!

[Traumtulpe]

If your idea of a "surpisingly general" weapon is that you spend 5 seconds priming every single target with a gun then good for you. At least use an Epitaph or something for groups...

I prefer to not prime at all:

 

[nslay]

9 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

If your idea of a "surpisingly general" weapon is that you spend 5 seconds priming every single target with a gun then good for you. At least use an Epitaph or something for groups...

I prefer to not prime at all:

 

And you know what? It's good enough to get 1.92 kps in SP Circulus vs @Berzerkules's 2.5 kps (who uses Melee Influence). Is that not good enough for you?

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

Is that not good enough for you?

Sounds pretty average, but that is absolutely not what you have shown in your clips. That was more like 1 enemy every 10 seconds.

[nslay]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Sounds pretty average, but that is absolutely not what you have shown in your clips. That was more like 1 enemy every 10 seconds.

Well, the SP Circulus is a mixture of varying difficulty enemies. The clips I show are more for benchmark against tough SP Corpus and SP Grineer enemies. And you know, it shows the Glaive Prime's cool Slash proc (not surprisingly) doesn't work well against the SP Corpus enemies. The Cerata's sore point is the armor... but it's very easy to deal with that through Corrosive/Viral priming... and Phage or Catabolyst provide a very easy way to prime both. Both of these procs are universally useful. Yes, you could prime with Magnetic to help Slash, but Magnetic is not universally useful.

[Traumtulpe]

You could simply remove Vicious Frost from your Glaive and it would do much better against everything. Even better if you put Gladiator Might in that slot instead. Or, you know, a bane mod. That's what people usually put on slash weapons.

Edited January 19 by Traumtulpe

[nslay]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

You could simply remove Vicious Frost from your Glaive and it would do much better against everything. Even better if you put Gladiator Might in that slot instead.

Alright, I'll do it for you man! I know I give you a hard time but I have immense respect for you (ever since your Glaives Balanced by Bugs thread).

But give me some time. I can't play Warframe right now to try it.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

I'll do it for you man!

Thanks. I though it would have been obvious that putting Viral on your Glaive was pointless when you prime with your gun either way.

By the way, did you know that you can mod your Cerata to deal Viral damage and it'll still proc Toxin as usual? Just in case you ever want to try playing without a primer.

[Traumtulpe]

Just a suggestion, but if you're going to prime the enemies how about you give the Bubonico a try? It's way better at it then the Phage, in my opinion. Not only is it AoE, it also has longer lasting status effects by default:

 

And it can generate a lot of energy with Primary Exhilarate

[Waeleto]

Reminder that primary blight also exists and it makes radiation/toxin weapons so much stronger

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Gas and Blast are the two damage types that are probably in the worst place imo (Magnetic is fine in theory, the issue there is more that Toxin renders it moot), I recently built a Zakti Prime and while it's fun as hell to spam AoE darts...the Gas damage on it is just painful.

 

Zakti used to be amazing. I miss using the weapon.

It was never really the Gas damage though outside Nullifiers which the dart stuck too. It was amazing for the status spoofing on old Condition Overload. Gun + Glaive has never been as fun. It's forced stealth multipliers and finishers were also very strong. I used Zakti + Lesion in an old 2 hour solo endurance run.

I imagine it's still good for the purpose of forcing stealth multipliers and using cold (probably still?) prolongs the multiplier window.
If melee didn't do half the damage it used to I'd say it's still a great weapon.

[Tiltskillet]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Gas and Blast are the two damage types that are probably in the worst place imo

Blast is at the bottom for elemental, and Gas might be second from the bottom  (Though I'm not sure I wouldn't put Magnetic there instead.)...but that doesn't mean Blast can even, uh, ...sniff Gas. :P    Gas damage is only great against Infested, which most players don't care much about when other damage types kill them pretty well.  And its status can be very powerful, but  takes too much set up and the right conditions for most players to figure out. Or bother with when they do figure it out.

Which sounds pretty grim, right?  But Blast basically just offers...nothing useful, and worse still, nothing interesting.  It's fun to make Gas procs work at least.

[Xzorn]

I generally never used Gas against Infested because the notable enemies you want to prioritize are weak to Corrosive.

Still not sure what was wrong with the original version of Gas or Blast.
Gas made perfect sense. it's a state of matter not damaging on it's own. It's used to spread toxins.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

22 hours ago, nslay said:

Unless you have all available Toxin mods slotted already, drop the Radiation mods and try pure Toxin with a source of Corrosive/Viral priming. Use 2 green shards for better effect (for 100% armor strip).

My take will inevitably be unpopular, but I strongly prefer Toxin over Slash. I mainly like Toxin because its DoT is also increased by Toxin mods in addition to base/faction mods... you don't have anything like that for Slash. Consequently, this makes Toxin pretty potent at quickly stripping Overguard. You also probably remember that it bypasses Shields making it potent against Corpus and some Corrupted enemies. Its only real sore point is armored enemies... well, if you have a means to dump Corrosive/Heat on targets fast, Toxin destroys the most beefy targets very quickly! And Viral helps kill everything faster with Toxin in general (even through Shields)! Toxin is just well-rounded against all factions and very nice against Eximus (especially Guardian Eximus).

For Toxin, I mainly play with pure Toxin Cerata and rely on something like Phage to prime enemies. I'm unsure how other Toxin weapons or setups will fare... Cerata is an OP Glaive after all.

Anyway, I realized this about Toxin some time ago when I left my SP Corpus gear equipped in an SP Grineer/Corrupted mission and found that it continued to work well there! Now I just use the same gear everywhere.

The thing is, with any kind of primer for viral/corrosive/both, ANY DOT is strong.  The Zakti Prime will never be meta, but because it can run corrosive and still get gas procs, the gas procs do a surprising amount of damage.  Not high end tier, but still better than it's given credit for.  Gas in the right setups is actually very strong, while somehow being weak bordering on useless if you don't dedicate a loadout to it.  It's the same with toxin.  Without priming for it, toxin isn't all that great, especially against grineer.  Build around it and it works great.  

Viral/slash is popular for the same reason corrosive used to be super popular.  It's nearly universal and works well even without a dedicated loadout.  I have a build for my Nikana Prime that runs zero elemental mods, because it "relies" on a primer for viral and CO stacks.  Yet it will run through SP mobs without priming as long as you build some semblance of combo because slash just does not care.

[Xzorn]

18 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Viral/slash is popular for the same reason corrosive used to be super popular.  It's nearly universal and works well even without a dedicated loadout.

 

The Corrosive thing was a sad side effect of DE's "typical" content.

You most certainly didn't want to be shooting level 350 Corpus with Corrosive. For some weapons even Toxic would get out scaled by Viral + Electric. Then of course the old Status Gas. There was quite a variety in the damage / status styles the general community just wasn't exposed to. I found use for everything outside Magnetic.

I also had some pure physical Slash loadouts. Mostly Melee weapons but it was superior to Viral + Slash given the HP pool was worth the time.

Current Viral status is just busted. People used to say old Viral status was too strong comically. I kinda wish they'd just revert most of it.
It's certainly not better so what's the point.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

12 hours ago, nslay said:

Biggest problem with Gas is that its damage doesn't scale with stacks or elemental mods. The stacks instead increase the AOE of the Gas damage.

I like to use it for spreading Synth Deconstruct effects, but it's not very good after DE reworked it.

Gas is an armor stripper's best friend, IMO. I've been experimenting with my current Frost and Ember builds and they are loving the gas+electric combo that comes with the Grimoir and Proboscis Cernos. Cold+Radiation and Impact also excel for those frames that can't delete armor easily but could take advantage of the open finisher bonus of impact. That last one is a great energy/health manager since the parazon mod sets can really shine with parazon finishers. 

However, those radiation mods are doing a great job of changing scope of my builds. I know that multiple statues are not really optimal, I am enjoying the chaos it brings with radiation's reduced aggro and having two secondary elements plus a primary and an ips all on the same weapon. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

Gas and Blast are the two damage types that are probably in the worst place imo (Magnetic is fine in theory, the issue there is more that Toxin renders it moot), I recently built a Zakti Prime and while it's fun as hell to spam AoE darts...the Gas damage on it is just painful.

It's great as a CO primer though. Also try it with electricity. The dual spread plus aggro reduction and double CO stat works very well. 

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It's great as a CO primer though. Also try it with electricity. The dual spread plus aggro reduction and double CO stat works very well. 

While that is definitely true, I just don't have the desire to go full CO prime building.

Since I don't really do anything harder than Archons I usually get by with just some big dumb crit builds and my Heavy Attack Spam 2h Nikana these days.