Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[-FCG-WINDSOR]

don't nerf the helminth or change her skill, add an augment that allows you to either tap/hold to choose, or have it correspond to her emmisive/energy color. I believe this to be the happy meduim and have wanted this for a long time now.

[Hexerin]

11 minutes ago, -FCG-WINDSOR said:

don't nerf the helminth or change her skill, add an augment that allows you to either tap/hold to choose, or have it correspond to her emmisive/energy color. I believe this to be the happy meduim and have wanted this for a long time now.

This is not what augments should be used for, please stop suggesting such garbage. Augments should be used for fundamental transformations of an ability, completely changing what the ability does to allow for alternative playstyles.

[Mimolette]

Toggle. No nerfs or adjustments on Mirage, but adjust stats for Helminth if need be.

If not, then keep it the same but have the buffs never decrease, only increase.

[podbacx]

Hi DE!
I also vote for the toggle option.

 

Thank you for listening to us! <3 

[Slobe0]

Okay I think the voice of the people has declared tap/hold/toggle, you could also have it be energy-color dependent which would make it less flexible, but more consistent, and make it less broken on helminth.

If you wanted to add complexity and synergy you could both buffs active at once, but have them be charged and then deplete over time. For instance you could stand in light for a X seconds, then after you leave maintain the damage up buff for a X*duration_modifier seconds. The player could produce their own light with prism, and their own dark with slight of hand to add some level of player control to this. This would be less consistent, make eclipse a worse helminth ability, possibly be more overpowered but in an annoying to play way, but I wanted to put it out there.

[Purpleturtle]

The idea of changing it to work as similar as qorvex's pillars in terms of walking in/out to grant the buff sounds alot more interesting and engaging than simply changing to a tap/hold and nerfing the ability. Eclipse as an ability is pretty bland in the first place, so giving it a fresh coat of paint while also making it less "press 3 to win" works.

[Grimm]

a UI element similar to ember and gauss gauges. that way the info for the power is NOT inside the mess of info that is the active buffs and DEbuff section.

also a linger time to the effect so if your in the dark and go into the light you have the RD for a few seconds and have the DB as well, with the DR running out well your in the light but returning if you reenter darkness. 

EDIT: for reliability make the mines and trapped items from slight of hand produce light and standing near them effect your eclipse. also make hall of mirrors produce dark, that way if you stand near your traps if hall of mirrors active you gain DB and if you get away from your traps you gain DR. 

intentionally making it more reliable for mirage herself well making the subsume still a pain. 

i think for the ability itself changing it to be similar to loki invis and having a direct effect on your visuals of the map of the game, but in a way that makes low light areas darker and high light areas brighter to help identify what is where

Edited January 27 by Grimm

[Pockolock]

Definitely Tap/hold/toggle.

maybe helminth version DR can stay at 75%? while damage buff can be reduced

[KopfJaeger]

I've always hated the light/dark mechanic. Warframe is a game in which movement is incredibly important, so even if the mechanic worked properly, it still wouldn't be viable to just stand still in the brightest spot you can find and kill from that spot - you'd die. I think a potentially good solution would be to make it so that the light level on initial cast affects the ability for the entire duration unless it is recast. That way you can move to a particular spot to cast the ability and then move around freely without your buff changing 20 times a second.

[MasterControl]

I'd say make it a toggle - environmental factors influencing warframe abilities has historically been bad, if anybody remember's Volt's overload being reliant on light fixtures being the impetus for his rework years ago. Helminth may need a change, but I really doubt it. People who are using it currently already snapshot the damage buff with invisibility gimmicks and such anyway, and it only works on weapon damage. These days, most exalted frames who would benefit the most from this run nourish over other damaging abilities for the better energy economy and the ability to run corrosive/viral. Ivara is likely the only exception, and she has access to in-built invisibility to snapshot the damage buff anyway.

[Flackenstien]

Hold Ability button to bring up a Sun and a Moon to the left and right, respectively. Move mouse left or right to select which side. Release Ability button to activate.  
Tap to activate whatever you set last.   
Default is light.  
  
Light effects from her Abilities are now boosts for the effectiveness of both versions?

[Modern-Ninja]

I suggest that for Mirage it gives both damage increase and damage reduction at the same time and scales with strength.

For helminth: I suggest making it a choice between damage increase and damage reduction based on the Emissive Color.

 

I don't think the nerf to the helminth is necessary..

Mirage will still do better with this ability, because Eclips on her is 5 times, thanks to her first ability.

[SafestSephiroth]

Redesigning the ability to make it so you have access to both through positioning adds much needed depth to mirage's gameplay, that sounds awesome!

[buciika]

Tap hold

[NinjaSyao]

A tap/hold toggle like everyone's saying here and has been saying for literal years!

I agree with Brozime's suggestion of substantially lowering the base damage boost for the Helminth version to like 70%-ish, while giving the DR portion its 95% cap back, BUT! Lowering the starting point to 30%, so a frame wanting to use that damage reduction or damage boost would have to invest very heavily into Strength.

[ILucjusz]

People seem to have spoken, tap to cycle and hold to cast option (or something along those lines) appears to be the majority preference here and I do agree that sometimes straight-forward solutions work best.

Edited January 27 by ILucjusz

[TheRandomDeathGod]

My keyboarb has a half-broken 'd' key, I'm not going to copy-paste my 'd' key everytime so apologies for the unreabability in abvance.

I'm seeing many people suggesting the ibea of tap/holb/toggle. The one thing I'm worrieb about this suggestion is that it gives the players the massive convenience of being able to bring both a bmg-amp anb bmg-rebuction in one ability slot. I imagine that balancing this ability woulb mean the bmg buff is going to worse than Roar as a trabe-off. Bue to Eclipse splitting its potential in being two-in-one abilities, it becomes a Jack-of-all-trabes where neither buff is that great as a trabe-off in allowing the players to have access to the two sibes of Eclipse. Although I am speaking from a somewhat late-game perspective, most optimizeb builbs are min-maxeb where you bon't finb an incentive to use these type of abilities. (Bepenbing on the scale that Eclipse gets nerfeb, maybe it's a goob rework)

For me, the appeal of Eclipse comes from having the potential to have higher bamage when utilizeb correctly as opposeb to those that finb comfort in more consistent sources like Roar, Xata's Whisper, Wrathful Abvance, etc. I unberstanb that Eclipse also have the potential to be befensive ability where one may make use of its bmg-rebuction + evasion, so it woulb be unfortunate if this gets nerfeb for those that utilize that sibe of Eclipse. In my playstyle, I have vieweb the shabow buff as bowntime for the light buff, where you're given survivability for when you're in the mibble of clearing enemies but the bmg buff runs out anb you neeb time to get reposition. In theory, I really love this concept of Eclipse, I'll abmit I have no ibea on how to preserve this aspect of Eclipse. 

I'm speaking as a person that uses Eclipse subsume over Mirage herself, but I think the rework shoulb prioritize Mirage's gameplay. Given Mirage's overall characteristics, she's supposeb to be nimble anb always on the move(tearing through sentients laughing like a maniac). For that reason, I bon't think reworks that forces Mirage to stay within an area is healthy to her kit. 

tl;br/summary

A rework coulb have just Eclipse as it is now, but with a lingering effect on the max light/shabow you've been in for the past time frame that either upbates periobically or bepletes over time. (I think the main problem with Eclipse was the lighting inconsistency being layereb with the inconsistency that comes from the nature of Warframe being very movement heavy)

***An alternative rework coulb have Eclipse act like Thurible, where you channel the ability from bmg-rebuction to bmg-amp(an incomplete channel woulb leave you with a portion of bmg-rebuction anb bmg-amp) with no impact on movement. 

Another alternative rework coulb have Eclipse being resource baseb, where Mirage may move arounb anb collect light, which she can then toggle Eclipse to beplete the collecteb light, but not sure how the shabow sibe woulb apply. 

My ibeas are flexible for alteration(they're actually incomplete ibeas, hoping someone more competent coulb refine them), just giving my take on an Eclipse rework that attempts to preserve Eclipse for what makes it so appealing. 

Edited January 27 by TheRandomDeathGod

[Rocky-Prime]

Damage buff while using gun (replaces light). Damage reduction while using melee (replaces dark)

[Raezor_7091]

Eclipse being Tap/Hold would be a big improvement

[SteveCutler]

Tap/Hold toggle please.

Also, please consider not overly nerfing the damage reduction portion when used as a Helminth. You said it's a popular Helminth power, but really people just use it for the damage increase. Damage reduction abilities are sorely lacking in the Helminth system, and this would be a fantastic way to patch up that deficiency. Null Star really sucks.

[Axlayy]

So I think Tap/Hold would be very good, and to make it balanced for the helminth system make the buffs be reduced by 40% and the buffs would take longer to max out. Also it would be nice if only the damage increase was reduced for the helminth.

Edited January 27 by Axlayy

[(PSN)Jona_Hart]

I think it should a switchable ability similar to ivara's quiver and titania's tribute abilities or maybe just a tap/hold. Also this is just something I always thought would be neat but could yall also give the ability a unique animation when casting instead of just the generic point it does now. I was thinking of possibly waving her hand in front of her face similar to how a mime would do to change the facial expression from happy to sad. You could have her wave her hand up for when she would toggle to solar eclipse and down for when she toggled to lunar eclipse. As far helmenth goes I really like what Brozime suggested and just lowering the starting values of eclipse for the helmenth version so that if a player really wanted to fully utilize eclipse to somewhat the same degree as mirage it would take some sacrifices and a lot of effort to make it work but wouldn't fully cap the abilities potential

[Hexerin]

People need to stop asking for things to be tied to emissive color. That stifles appearance customization, because one of your customization options becomes forced to be a color you don't necessarily want. That's just terrible, and there's no rational arguments otherwise.

[Sojufueled]

What if it just constantly cycled? DR ticks down as damage boost ticks up. The it reaches the max and goes back the other way. Bonus points if you can indicate it by alternating in equal proportion between the two energy colors (or the energy color and the emissive color if you don't like a feature behind forma).

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, NinjaSyao said:

A tap/hold toggle like everyone's saying here and has been saying for literal years!

I agree with Brozime's suggestion of substantially lowering the base damage boost for the Helminth version to like 70%-ish, while giving the DR portion its 95% cap back, BUT! Lowering the starting point to 30%, so a frame wanting to use that damage reduction or damage boost would have to invest very heavily into Strength.

Setting the base value to 30% would be far, far too low. That would require an insane 317% ability strength to reach the 95% cap, or 300% ability strength just to get the standard 90% cap that every other frame gets for 200% ability strength or less. Yet another Brozime L, no surprise there.

38 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

Tap/Hold toggle please.

Also, please consider not overly nerfing the damage reduction portion when used as a Helminth. You said it's a popular Helminth power, but really people just use it for the damage increase. Damage reduction abilities are sorely lacking in the Helminth system, and this would be a fantastic way to patch up that deficiency. Null Star really sucks.

There's no reason to nerf the DR. At most, adjust it to have a reasonably lower base value and boost it to a higher 90% cap (necessitating ability strength investment) to normalize it with modern standards. For example:

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Alternatively, and more desirable, increase the DR cap to 90% but set the base value down to 50%. This gives it a nice base value for lower content, but requires the player to invest in ability strength if they want the full 90% (reached at 180% in this case). I don't see how anyone could argue that that isn't a fair balance.

Edited January 27 by Hexerin