Eclipse (Helminth) nerf

[Darvahoya]

Seriously, you cut the Helminth version of Eclipse from 150% damage buff to a 30% buff? That's 20% of the original value which makes it almost worthless. You have essentially removed what may have been the most popular subsumable ability from the Helminth system. How does this make sense?

Edited March 28 by Darvahoya

[matt11mz]

From the math I've seen, Eclipse still outperforms on raw damage builds with faction mods. Basically, Eclipse for pure crit, Roar for DoT.

[VibingCat]

Additionally, Eclipse doesn't affect Exodia Contagion twice anymore, and it doesn't even affect close-range melee weapons, but the latter is a bug.

This nerf leaves me speechless.

 

Edit: it's reverted and fixed on Mirage, hell yeah. Ignore what I said above.

Edited March 28 by VibingCat

[PrimedLaundrySauce]

5 hours ago, matt11mz said:

From the math I've seen, Eclipse still outperforms on raw damage builds with faction mods. Basically, Eclipse for pure crit, Roar for DoT.

builds like that are still incredibly uncommon since more people would just rather use roar and not have to worry about swapping loadouts each time they face a new faction

Edited March 28 by PrimedLaundrySauce

[HeavyFarms]

8 hours ago, PrimedLaundrySauce said:

builds like that are still incredibly uncommon since more people would just rather use roar and not have to worry about swapping loadouts each time they face a new faction

You'd just use roar anyway. Why not boost your warframe abilities too while you are at it. 

My friend runs Nova and Roar. Guess no reason not to at this point.

[PrimedLaundrySauce]

1 hour ago, HeavyFarms said:

You'd just use roar anyway. Why not boost your warframe abilities too while you are at it. 

My friend runs Nova and Roar. Guess no reason not to at this point.

if you want to min max raw damage that isnt status then eclipse with a bane mod on the weapon is usually better, but that sort of thing isnt needed at all unless youre doing level cap content, but usually status builds are best for that anyways, or just use nourish instead to get viral procs for an innately strong damage multiplier. I dont understand what DE was thinking with this nerf.

[Eisenstirn]

I thought we are doing better than WoW Classic but now DE is here nerfing Eclipse Helminth into the ground making it worthless and destroying 70% of the content I played

 

[Sonicbullitt]

17 hours ago, Darvahoya said:

Seriously, you cut the Helminth version of Eclipse from 150% damage buff to a 30% buff? That's 20% of the original value which makes it almost worthless. You have essentially removed what may have been the most popular subsumable ability from the Helminth system. How does this make sense?

So they just lied, about not nerfing it into the ground....right.

[TheBlackAce21]

Not enough people here mentioning that Roar works on all abilities and Eclipse does not. Maybe the math supports Eclipse being better for raw damage scaling on crit weapons but I'd still like to see the numbers be a little higher to account for the fact that roar works on everything and eclipse only works on weapons. They finally fixed the damn ability after YEARS, LITERALLY YEARS of being BEGGED to and then nerfed the helminth part to be "in line with roar" when it isn't roar. I'm sorry but I gotta agree somewhat with OP here, the nerf to Nourish was well done and balanced imo but the Eclipse nerf was WAY too much for what it is to the meta. Needs to be bounced back a bit. Some nerf is fine, it's Helminth, and that makes total sense, but it needs to be higher than it is now.

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

Not enough people here mentioning that Roar works on all abilities and Eclipse does not. Maybe the math supports Eclipse being better for raw damage scaling on crit weapons but I'd still like to see the numbers be a little higher to account for the fact that roar works on everything and eclipse only works on weapons. They finally fixed the damn ability after YEARS, LITERALLY YEARS of being BEGGED to and then nerfed the helminth part to be "in line with roar" when it isn't roar. I'm sorry but I gotta agree somewhat with OP here, the nerf to Nourish was well done and balanced imo but the Eclipse nerf was WAY too much for what it is to the meta. Needs to be bounced back a bit. Some nerf is fine, it's Helminth, and that makes total sense, but it needs to be higher than it is now.

Eclipse doesn't have any particular interaction with critical hits, besides... Roar is always better at the moment, despite costing more energy.

[TheBlackAce21]

1 minute ago, VibingCat said:

Eclipse doesn't have any particular interaction with critical hits, besides... Roar is always better at the moment, despite costing more energy.

Someone was saying that the math shows Eclipse > roar for raw damage scaling on critical hits and roar being better for DoT effects because faction damage. I was simply refuting that statement should it even be true as I've not run the numbers or tested myself.

[Drachnyn]

It is very strange how helminth eclipse was murdered but helminth nourish only got a slap on the wrist. Make it make sense DE.

[SpiritTeA]

Eclipse offensive capability  is held back by its alternative 75% damage reduction. 

So from “balance” logic they can’t make damage boost too strong because than you also have alternative functiom. 

But oh well at this point roar just better for this.

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb SpiritTeA:

Eclipse offensive capability  is held back by its alternative 75% damage reduction. 

So from “balance” logic they can’t make damage boost too strong because than you also have alternative functiom. 

But oh well at this point roar just better for this.

Roar has the alternate functions of buffing abilities and allies so DE's logic doesnt really work here.

[ShogunGunshow]

On 2024-03-27 at 6:48 PM, VibingCat said:

Additionally, Eclipse doesn't affect Exodia Contagion twice anymore

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Well, it works again since the last hotfix lol. Actually, also glaives receive a quadratic bonus now.

[Darvahoya]

I finally got a chance to test Helminth Eclipse today at a very high round Duviri SP Circuit run. As far as I could tell it had no effect at all now. Perhaps it would work on low-level <10 runs on earth but otherwise it's truly worthless now. So sad and seemingly unnecessary.

[_Anise_]

On 2024-03-28 at 1:10 AM, Darvahoya said:

You have essentially removed what may have been the most popular subsumable ability from the Helminth system. How does this make sense?

which is weird because they were super walking on eggshells with Nourish, wanted to keep it in the top 10 and said it if basically went unplayed they would look at reverting the numbers.

somehow justified Eclipse because it has a defense portion because having crippled utility that not many people want somehow makes up for the damage output it's lacking?

[Darvahoya]

This really makes me doubt that the people making these decisions are actually playing the game any longer. I think they are doing this based on tables of numbers and saying "oh look, this Helminth ability is an outlier so we will nerf it." With both Roar and Eclipse cut to 30% it really doesn't make sense to use Helminth any longer for the strongest frames since shards, Arcanes, Rivens and other mods provide better options.

The only reason I can see for DE doing this is that they've already done a huge number of things to help new players compete so now they are turning to doing things to make more experienced players less competitive so newer players aren't overwhelmed. I know the game needs to bring in new players to increase revenue but punishing more experienced players by damaging builds that have been tested, tweaked and optimized over many missions is a bad approach IMHO. It would be better for DE to focus on making the game more interesting for new players instead of blending us all all into some bland broth.

[_Anise_]

16 hours ago, Darvahoya said:

"oh look, this Helminth ability is an outlier so we will nerf it."

by outlier not to mean it's overpowerd, because Rhino has roar at full power and its not overpowered, its an outlier because people are using it and with so many bad options in helminth its not surprising players flock to the small amount of good abilities.

btu but nerfed helminth stops players putting eclypse and roar at fullpower on the same frame? I can hit damage cap without either but its possible to have mirage and rhino in a group so you can have both buffs anyway?

[D4VE84]

At least i can use Mirage with the insane damage boost all the time now. Before, i only used Eclipse for a few scenarios, but at the same time i always wished for having that damage boost all the time. Now i can have it, just only with sexy Mirage. Could be worse.