Dante and other overguard providing frame Cause issues with Rage/Hunter adrenaline using frame like Inaros

[kerozen666]

With the (absolutly fantastic) Rework Inaros just receive, an issue with overguard has been made even more annoying. Similar to Chroma's vex armor, Overguard prevent the proper activation of the mechanic. So while At least, Chroma got a workaround in the form of his new augment, Rage and Hunter adrenaline don't, which cause enormous energy issues if one doesn't have a backup plan. 

Thus, it would be amazing if something would be made to avoid such issue. Something like either the mods disabling overguard gain or have them work on it at reduced rates (to compensate for the lack of DR and protection of overguard) would be immensly appreciated

[Darthplagueis13]

There's better options for energy economy these days. Energy Nexus has the same mod drain as Hunter Adrenalin and Rage and will generate 180 energy a minute and Equilibrium can be combined with Synth Deconstruct on your companion for a super steady flow of energy pick-ups.

 

[kerozen666]

5 minutes ago, Darthplagueis13 said:

There's better options for energy economy these days. Energy Nexus has the same mod drain as Hunter Adrenalin and Rage and will generate 180 energy a minute and Equilibrium can be combined with Synth Deconstruct on your companion for a super steady flow of energy pick-ups.

 

the thing is that both of these aren't as reliable or efficient as rage can be at higher levels. 180 energy a minute is nothing when your mod can give you 180 per SECONDS from enemy shooting you. you also don't get gutted by low enemy density like synth-equilibrium get due to being rng based

[BriareosBlue]

There should be some rework to how overguard works in these cases because, surprise surprise, Chroma's Guardian Armor doesn't work around overguard, overguard still eats the damage instead.

[Oraxin]

On 2024-03-28 at 1:05 PM, Darthplagueis13 said:

There's better options for energy economy these days. Energy Nexus has the same mod drain as Hunter Adrenalin and Rage and will generate 180 energy a minute and Equilibrium can be combined with Synth Deconstruct on your companion for a super steady flow of energy pick-ups.

 

Just so you know, you no longer need to use synth deconstruct with Equilibirum. They fixed that during Abyss of Dagath so you can pick up heath and energy orbs regardless of whether or not you are full health

[BalaDeSilver]

I just wish Combat Discipline would bypass Overguard as it does with shield, too. It seems only fair.

[kerozen666]

36 minutes ago, Oraxin said:

Just so you know, you no longer need to use synth deconstruct with Equilibirum. They fixed that during Abyss of Dagath so you can pick up heath and energy orbs regardless of whether or not you are full health

you are confusing fiber and deconstruct. deconstruct is how you get your orb drops

[Fenastreal]

On 2024-03-29 at 5:42 PM, Oraxin said:

Just so you know, you no longer need to use synth deconstruct with Equilibirum. They fixed that during Abyss of Dagath so you can pick up heath and energy orbs regardless of whether or not you are full health

That would be Synth FIber, which allows pickups for companion armor, which prechange was the combo piece KFC meal, Synth Deconstruct is the one that generates health orbs at a 25% chance when an enemy that has been hit by a companion is killed, I use it on my Nautilus with a fully cranked up fire rate Verglas for that reason of energy, and allowed me to replace Synth Fiber with FIred Up.

[0_The_F00l]

While what OP says is not wrong ,

This is far from the first time specific effects that are supposed to be beneficial can cause detrimental effects. 

This is not even related to effects , random player killing enemies where you need enemies to build any sort of stacks is rather common.

They haven't changed that , i doubt they will change this.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2024-03-28 at 7:05 PM, Darthplagueis13 said:

There's better options for energy economy these days. Energy Nexus has the same mod drain as Hunter Adrenalin and Rage and will generate 180 energy a minute and Equilibrium can be combined with Synth Deconstruct on your companion for a super steady flow of energy pick-ups.

 

There are. But if OP builds for taking dmg as said.

Depending what teammates you get. Shouldnt INVALIDATE your chosen mods as it currently does.

 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I thought they fixed all this recently when they had to fix Rhino ironskin+overguard?  

HA/Rage should just change to build energy from taking damage to ANYTHING.  Guard/shield/HP.   And do like was suggested,  Just make guard/shields conversion less effective and keep HP at same rate. 

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

I thought they fixed all this recently when they had to fix Rhino ironskin+overguard?  

They fixed things like Avenger which require "on damage" not working on Iron Skin.  However things that specify health damage like HA and Grace still don't trigger off of damage to overguard or shields.

[_Anise_]

On 2024-03-29 at 9:44 PM, BalaDeSilver said:

wish Combat Discipline would bypass Overguard

wait overguard blocks it? does it block status that bypass shields too? toxin?

[CrownOfShadows]

I agree with this. If you jump into a game with an Adrenaline / Junkie build and there's a Styanax or Dante (or Frost) in there with you suddenly you have no energy economy at all.

The lowest-hanging-fruit way I can see of fixing this is by bringing Combat Discipline back into the play (after it was halfway gutted), buffing it somehow so that it works better with rage/adrenaline. But even then, not all frames want the downside of Combat Discipline, so it's not a perfect resolution (even though most hp tanking frames will have a robust hp regen method that should overcompensate for this, some shield-based (or overgaurd now) frames run Combat Discipline to proc Avenger and the like).

If we made Adrenaline & Rage proc on Overgaurd damage, that might be a solution, but that might also be OP idk (OG melts like mad meaning 100% up-time on energy, so you'd likely want to scale it, so that OG conversion % is much lower than HP conversion %). This might be the better way to go, but it kinda depends on what DE's vision for OG is, if they have one.

Also, a lot of frames combine rage/adrenaline with Molt Reconstruct, which means that not only can you not cast abilities but you cannot heal either...

[Gaxxian]

Tbf, Revenant's full team immortality also causes issues with rage and hunter adrenaline. It should be changed to a 90% dmg reduction instead of full damage immunity.

[BalaDeSilver]

11 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

wait overguard blocks it? does it block status that bypass shields too? toxin?

Yes. Overguard acts just like old Iron Skin would, but I think it's stronger in a couple ways. For instance, it blocks most, if not all, environmental hazards like magnetic doors, electric mines and ice floor.

[FreeWilliam]

For me on a lot of frames I use Rage or HA both as a source of energy that scales dynamically based on the amount of danger I'm in, but also (with Quick Thinking) another healthbar that encourages me to be active.

Pretty sure this also impacts Gauss' Kinetic Plating (and if it doesn't, then DE surely can have it also do the same for builds that want health damage).

I do NOT think DE should fix this with a Mod unless it also provides other benefits that suit our playstyles and don't force us into someone else's. They could (for example)...

• Have everything that would normally trigger without Overguard still trigger as if it was not there (not any more imbalanced than the degree of invulnerability overguard provides IMO).
• Make Overguard slightly porous so that some real damage slips through.
• Modify mods like Hunter's Adrenaline so that they explicitly make Overguard porous.

And if we're going to add mods...

• Enraged Vitality - Warframe gains rage and health effect
• Cloak of Thorns - Warframe takes a percentage of health damage that would ordinarily be blocked by other effects, and also reflects damage back to the target. 
• Panataloons of Angry Weasels - Warframe takes damage whenever any protective effect is struck and also when jumping or moving faster than a walk. Increases bullet jump speed.