I genuinely cannot understand Deep Archimedia sympathizers

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

5 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

How can my time be wasted while I'm having fun.

- You're not getting any rewards past the 1st run. Not until the next weekly reset;

- All of the time and effort you've put into modding and messing around with your build is gone, the moment things reset. You have to start anew.

That's literally the definition of a wasted time.

----------------------------------------------------

But ok. Ok. Let's assume you and a few select people enjoy wasting your time like that. Ok ok.

Hypothetical scenario now: Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

[Drachnyn]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb _Kit_Kat_Cat_:

- You're not getting any rewards past the 1st run. Not until the next weekly reset;

- All of the time and effort you've put into modding and messing around with your build is gone, the moment things reset. You have to start anew.

That's literally the definition of a wasted time.

----------------------------------------------------

But ok. Ok. Let's assume you and a few select people enjoy wasting your time like that. Ok ok.

Hypothetical scenario now: Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

Predictably you post this loaded question. This would have bite if we hadnt spent the last page talking about why I am already doing this. We started this entire conversation with you explaining how you can already get the rewards without engaging with the personal parameters. Your problem is fixed already.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

Your problem is fixed already.

It's not. All of these are work-arounds this anti-fun, anti-Warframe mechanic that should not become a trend in the future content.

 

So please. Answer the question:

11 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

If you're doing this "just for fun" and not for the rewards, would you be against moving all the rewards elsewhere? With the only "reward" from this mode being your "fun" from it.

Would you still play it?

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb _Kit_Kat_Cat_:

It's not. All of these are work-arounds this anti-fun, anti-Warframe mechanic that should not become a trend in the future content.

 

So please. Answer the question:

If you're doing this "just for fun" and not for the rewards, would you be against moving all the rewards elsewhere? With the only "reward" from this mode being your "fun" from it.

Would you still play it?

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Drachnyn:

This would have bite if we hadnt spent the last page talking about why I am already doing this.

 

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

@Drachnyn, here you go, specially for you and your like-minded individuals.

[Lord_Drod]

I decided not to derail your thread, and just add to this one that's already derailed Kat:

It has been fun playing this mode trying different fodder against the rogue voidrig eximus units in survival.  I have spent a bunch of time just optimizing things like a dark sword after I've already completed the mode.  It's fun yeah.  Those things don't exist in simulacrum, so I'll be more prepared if I have no gear, no operator, or simply want to engage more with my fodder restrictions and have them output more in the mission.  I know I'm not alone in this aspect.  Do I want rewards?  Of course, but I don't have to receive rewards for every minute of play.

I didn't want the RNG initially, but it has been fun experimenting with things as a result of being restricted by RNG.  Also, just because people are using gearwheel, companion, necramech that doesn't mean they are going around bad RNG, but just additional tools to help.  The mech is kinda slow getting around compared to your frame, so having to stay in the mech 100% of the time would be more of a challenge than a work around and its easily oneshot in assassinate or by even another voidrig.  On call does not last forever.  Other specters just aid you, not complete the mission for you.  You still have to deal with the mission parameters.

I don't think very many people are doing 2 by 2 tradeoffs, but if they are good for them.  I'm sure there's some people that do it again in pubs, just for the purpose of helping others get through, because its an enjoyable mode.  The challenge of helping unprepared people get through a mission like that and help them to the rewards is your reward.  There's no other mode that compares to it as far as the challenge it brings.  Solo is different since the enemy HP is lower, so if you wanted to test things for groups, you'd have to run it again in groups.

I just want you to be aware of other people that do enjoy the challenge DE presents and minmaxing their fodder, swapping mods around to beat a challenge.  Of course I won't use the builds anywhere else.  I also, change most of my builds around for every other mission, swapping mods around since I usually farm certain things repetitively for a bit, I like to optimize for whatever I'm doing, like running loot mods in sanctum, running avenger in netracells, faction mod swapping, etc.  Health tanking is also not really needed outside of these missions either, so I'm not going to overgear a bunch of survival mods to crack relics.

Edited April 25 by Lord_Drod

[vixenpixel]

Elite Archimedea to me is the pinnacle of warframe gameplay. From MR 1 we have been collecting frames and weapons and honing our ability to tackle the game in a variety of ways and now we are being tested. Wipe your noses kids, strap in and get gaming.

[Xsoskeleton]

I think you miss the part where EDA is an optional alternative of 2 weekly netracell attempts that provides higher drop rate for legendary melee arcane and tauforged shard in exchange for the horrendous difficulty. And barely offering unique drops aside from the Vosfor.

They already buffed Netracell drop chances so if EDA is absolutely not doable for me (luckily it havent been the case so far) i just wouldn't activate it for the week and would go for 5 normal netracell run instead. Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Edited April 30 by Xsoskeleton
italic bolded my main point

[GPrime96]

On 2024-04-30 at 6:19 PM, Xsoskeleton said:

Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Also faster clears for the same rewards.

[ZskyGuardian360]

Warframe has not had genuine difficulty in a long time and it's gotten to the point where almost any new "challenging" activity has devolved into RNG and ridiculously high levels (to the point where player Armour, an entire stat, no longer matters).

They're running away from the actual problem, which is the way stats scale with level and that having anything less than Death Nuke 5000 is pointless.

Different people have different opinions on how the game should handle difficulty, but in my opinion the player should just have to be careful about their movement, even at lower levels. Since Warframe is a movement shooter, I think it would be fun if the player had to do some kind of "dance" around different enemy projectiles like in the Doom games.

[GPrime96]

On 2024-04-06 at 10:07 PM, ChaoticOrderly said:

The concept of difficulty in Warframe has now been warped to owning everything in the game, understanding how it all works, and having functional build for every single item in the game.

This is horrendous and not feasible.

I really cannot grasp the ideology of people who say this game mode is fine despite its very noticeable flaws so I must go over them to hear any potential counterpoints and please really think them through instead of just saying Skill Issue or Git Gud, you're not actually giving real advice and aren't worth talking to.

1: RNG. This is not difficulty. This is an artificial limitation that only serves to pretend that it is. It's possible to roll things you do not own or even have builds for (reminder, endgame should not be owning everything). Duviri, while being RNG, has decrees to back up lackluster frames/weapons and weapons even have loaner builds (still no arcanes tho) and you can even reset choices by doing experience solo, do a fishing minigame (for bile mats), collect the decree and leave.

2: Modifiers: This is the only real difficulty part but its has been exacerbated by RNG because not everything works in the game effectively and even then, have people seen all the modifiers??? There are some REAL bad ones but since we no longer have flexibility (except for people who have EA unlocked and earned the 37 RP reward to allow a singular flex slot), it's just even more artificial difficulty.

3: Gear: News Flash, not every frame or weapon is serviceable. Certain frames are better at certain mission types. Certain Weapons deal with certain mechanics more effectively. If you managed to build it that way congrats??? But not everyone has the same playstyle, so forcing people to mod and play more defensively, slowly, or play a frame they do not enjoy is never a good idea. The hugest saving grace is the you can use the Gear Wheel in this content so you can summon on call and Archgun (how is this the most consistent option) and you can also summon Necramech in the tileset itself (again, why is this the most consistent option) but as soon as that Gear Wheel Ban modifier comes up...

4: Rewards: 15 RP gives you 3x Entrati Lanthorns and 37 RP gives you 50 VOSPHOR (1/4 of an arcane pack), absolutely despicable considering the is the endgame but that's not the worst part. Melee arcane adapters are still in EVERY chest except the legendary one which still has the Legendary Arcanes in it (ima be real, the legendary melees are too niche to be considered an endgame reward) but the Melee adapters stick out because they're buyable with plat and standing (50k standing is still wild considering Amp adapters are only 30k but that's another thing entirely)

5: Definition of difficulty in Warframe: This one sticks out especially because this content is called endgame. Endgame should be defined by having the player push its arsenal to it's limit (see #3 for why that isn't the case sometimes), having the squad coordinated meaningfully, having mechanics that put you on your toes and require more attention than normal, but also having the freedom to choose what tools you want. Yes, this sounds like raids in literally any other MMO because that's how it should be. 60 eyes can and should be considered the hardest content in the game because the Loadout really matters and you have complete freedom to do so while also having the above traits.

All in All, the gist is that I REALLY HATE lack of choice AND owning everything being a trait of endgame when a good portion of the game hasn't caught up to general usability. It could realistically work if every single frame and weapon just worked with a build you put a decent bit of effort into, but this is a numbers game and not everything has the numbers.

(P.S. Revenant is a whole other can of worms that DE themselves should address, but really isn't anyone's problem. So is OverGuard.)

This has all of what i feel about the gamemode, basically have to play the gamemode the way it’s intended to make it feel the way it is instead of our way which would only make it another Sortie (normal mode can still be that way depending on the rotation) and of course when we play it like a Sortie, the rewards are even worse in a very questionable way. Endgame is what you just said in the post and Deep Archimedea only tried to be that way.

[Spyke2009]

On 2024-05-01 at 12:19 AM, Xsoskeleton said:

I think you miss the part where EDA is an optional alternative of 2 weekly netracell attempts that provides higher drop rate for legendary melee arcane and tauforged shard in exchange for the horrendous difficulty. And barely offering unique drops aside from the Vosfor.

They already buffed Netracell drop chances so if EDA is absolutely not doable for me (luckily it havent been the case so far) i just wouldn't activate it for the week and would go for 5 normal netracell run instead. Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Isn't EVERY piece of content in a video game optional, there's nobody holding a gun to our heads telling us to warframe faster, at least I hope not. Do you need help friend, blink twice to signal maybe? 🙄

"This content SUCKS"

"Well... it's optional"

Nobody said it was mandatory, they're saying it SUCKS. Because it SUCKS... and people are working around the primary aspect of it, which people are saying is directly WHY, that it SUCKS. Negating the whole intended POINT of the so called "challenge" aspect of the system. 

Good point on the netracel drop table aspect though, perhaps that's ANOTHER aspect which should be addressed if that's correct. 

[Twisted_Wisdom]

On 2024-04-07 at 1:07 PM, ChaoticOrderly said:

The concept of difficulty in Warframe has now been warped to owning everything in the game, understanding how it all works, and having functional build for every single item in the game.

This is horrendous and not feasible.

I really cannot grasp the ideology of people who say this game mode is fine despite its very noticeable flaws so I must go over them to hear any potential counterpoints and please really think them through instead of just saying Skill Issue or Git Gud, you're not actually giving real advice and aren't worth talking to.

1: RNG. This is not difficulty. This is an artificial limitation that only serves to pretend that it is. It's possible to roll things you do not own or even have builds for (reminder, endgame should not be owning everything). Duviri, while being RNG, has decrees to back up lackluster frames/weapons and weapons even have loaner builds (still no arcanes tho) and you can even reset choices by doing experience solo, do a fishing minigame (for bile mats), collect the decree and leave.

2: Modifiers: This is the only real difficulty part but its has been exacerbated by RNG because not everything works in the game effectively and even then, have people seen all the modifiers??? There are some REAL bad ones but since we no longer have flexibility (except for people who have EA unlocked and earned the 37 RP reward to allow a singular flex slot), it's just even more artificial difficulty.

3: Gear: News Flash, not every frame or weapon is serviceable. Certain frames are better at certain mission types. Certain Weapons deal with certain mechanics more effectively. If you managed to build it that way congrats??? But not everyone has the same playstyle, so forcing people to mod and play more defensively, slowly, or play a frame they do not enjoy is never a good idea. The hugest saving grace is the you can use the Gear Wheel in this content so you can summon on call and Archgun (how is this the most consistent option) and you can also summon Necramech in the tileset itself (again, why is this the most consistent option) but as soon as that Gear Wheel Ban modifier comes up...

4: Rewards: 15 RP gives you 3x Entrati Lanthorns and 37 RP gives you 50 VOSPHOR (1/4 of an arcane pack), absolutely despicable considering the is the endgame but that's not the worst part. Melee arcane adapters are still in EVERY chest except the legendary one which still has the Legendary Arcanes in it (ima be real, the legendary melees are too niche to be considered an endgame reward) but the Melee adapters stick out because they're buyable with plat and standing (50k standing is still wild considering Amp adapters are only 30k but that's another thing entirely)

5: Definition of difficulty in Warframe: This one sticks out especially because this content is called endgame. Endgame should be defined by having the player push its arsenal to it's limit (see #3 for why that isn't the case sometimes), having the squad coordinated meaningfully, having mechanics that put you on your toes and require more attention than normal, but also having the freedom to choose what tools you want. Yes, this sounds like raids in literally any other MMO because that's how it should be. 60 eyes can and should be considered the hardest content in the game because the Loadout really matters and you have complete freedom to do so while also having the above traits.

All in All, the gist is that I REALLY HATE lack of choice AND owning everything being a trait of endgame when a good portion of the game hasn't caught up to general usability. It could realistically work if every single frame and weapon just worked with a build you put a decent bit of effort into, but this is a numbers game and not everything has the numbers.

(P.S. Revenant is a whole other can of worms that DE themselves should address, but really isn't anyone's problem. So is OverGuard.)

Agree with everything you've said.

One thing that shouldn't be hard to do is get a group for Deep, i can't say what its like for getting a group for Deep Elite because i can't get to that yet.

First time i tried to get a group for Deep (and use ALL modifiers so as to gain access to Deep Elite) it took 41min of almost getting a group, - players joined and left, joined and left, before we even entered the mission. At the 41min point i gave up. And nothing has changed even though Deep has been available for a while now I still can't get a group.
tried solo and can't do it solo simply because of the restrictions available at this time (and the restrictions are always going to be bad because thats the nature of this game mode and that's why groups).

I play on the Oceania server which has a lower population anyway. I get told 'well use NA server at the start of the week as there are always plenty of players doing Deep then.'
If i do that then ping becomes a problem and if i end up host, with that ping, that is a problem. And there is always 'but you should blah, blah, blah.' No, if you (they) aren't going to help i don't want your (their) bad advice.

I seriously hate the random loadouts. After getting several of the incarnon weapon adaptors i have decided not to bother any more. Its not fun so there is no point.
Same for Deep Archimedea. And if i have to spend all my time trying to get a group, then that's not actively playing Warframe. I don't play Warframe to wait in line all day.
I was looking forward to playing the new content but as its just more random loadouts, so no thanks.
I do own almost everything in game at this point. I do not have good builds on everything. I don't hate myself enough to do that.

It would have been nice to be able to farm the new legendary arcanes. Its not really feasible to try to do this through Netracell because the drop rate still sucks and we are limited to 5 runs per week. To farm both Melee Duplicate and Melee Crescendo to max rank (21+21 arcanes) could take years with rng being what it is with the 10% drop rate.
The drop rate in Deep Elite is 10%, 15% 25% but with only 2 Deep Elite rewards per week (its not that much better than farming Netracell) but without being able to get to this mission it might as well be 0%.

The legendary arcanes are the only reason for my wanting to do these missions but will cope with not farming them. I see no point in buying them. It would have been nice to have fun with the new content but its just not there.

The true difficulty in Warframe is dealing with DE's not-so-good decisions for Warframe (for anyone that loves what DE is doing with Warframe, then this post isn't for you).

[Traumtulpe]

54 minutes ago, Twisted_Wisdom said:

[…]

I agree with you, but have some tips on how to clear DA since you're having difficulties:

Whatever Warframe you get, if you use Fast Deflection, Vigilante Vigor, and Redirection, you should be pretty safe from anything except Necramechs, as ranged attacks are rather infrequent with the Murmur - unless you get the +500% recharge time modifier.

If you can use gear, get yourself a crewmate with a launcher - I'm using a Tenet Envoy, and the crewmate can easily solo those missions for three minutes.

If you can use the Operator: Vazarin and Protective Sling, and you win by default.

If all else fails, slap three Umbral Mods on the frame and use a melee with Life Strike.

Pretty much any melee can be effective with Melee Influence.

The Helminth system can also help you with useless warframe choices - Decoy or Molt, for example, can effectively CC Necramechs.

A sentinel with the Verglas and Shivering Contagion (and Corrosive/Radiation for good measure) is great at providing CC regardless of your frame.

Once you unlock elite, just *somehow* make your frame survive (just Vazarin will do even with no mods and no nothing), and bring the most OP weapon you own. Quick and easy.

Edited May 27 by Traumtulpe

[Twisted_Wisdom]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

I agree with you, but have some tips on how to clear DA since you're having difficulties:

Whatever Warframe you get, if you use Fast Deflection, Vigilante Vigor, and Redirection, you should be pretty safe from anything except Necramechs, as ranged attacks are rather infrequent with the Murmur - unless you get the +500% recharge time modifier.

If you can use gear, get yourself a crewmate with a launcher - I'm using a Tenet Envoy, and the crewmate can easily solo those missions for three minutes.

If you can use the Operator: Vazarin and Protective Sling, and you win by default.

If all else fails, slap three Umbral Mods on the frame and use a melee with Life Strike.

Pretty much any melee can be effective with Melee Influence.

The Helminth system can also help you with useless warframe choices - Decoy or Molt, for example, can effectively CC Necramechs.

A sentinel with the Verglas and Shivering Contagion (and Corrosive/Radiation for good measure) is great at providing CC regardless of your frame.

Once you unlock elite, just *somehow* make your frame survive (just Vazarin will do even with no mods and no nothing), and bring the most OP weapon you own. Quick and easy.

Thank-you very much.
The main problem is not a high enough number of active players. Its a bit rough when its almost rng on whether or not i can get a group.
With the focus school rework, Vazarin isnt as good as it used to be but now can use Magus Repair instead. Had to change the way i play with VoidDash gone and focus school 'tweaks'.
I sincerely hope Jade Shadows update isn't more of the same random loadouts in whatever new content we are getting, or more disruptions.

[Hwystar2032]

This is perfect for the ones who like builds and like to figure out game mechanics. Simply put if you don't like it there are other means to get the same rewards.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

4 hours ago, Hwystar2032 said:

This is perfect for the ones who like builds and like to figure out game mechanics. Simply put if you don't like it there are other means to get the same rewards.

False.

• DA/EDA = 5 reward rolls for 2 Netracell keys. And then you still have 3 more keys of Netracells for 3 more reward rolls. Which equals to 8 rewards in total per week.
• Weekly, you can only have 5 Netracell keys and if you only do Netracells, it's - as expected - only 5 reward rolls in total per week.

8 is more than 5.

 

And this has nothing to do with "liking builds". I like making up builds. I like min-maxing. And I have a whole lot of my own favorite setups and combinationss of various warframes+weapons, after spending hours upon hours of making them work, testing, managing, etc. And I'd rather use THOSE existing builds that I've ALREADY spent time on building. Not randomly generated nonsense that takes away my agency over how I want to engage with this or that challenge.

[obiwandandobi2]

9 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

False.

• DA/EDA = 5 reward rolls for 2 Netracell keys. And then you still have 3 more keys of Netracells for 3 more reward rolls. Which equals to 8 rewards in total per week.
• Weekly, you can only have 5 Netracell keys and if you only do Netracells, it's - as expected - only 5 reward rolls in total per week.

8 is more than 5.

 

And this has nothing to do with "liking builds". I like making up builds. I like min-maxing. And I have a whole lot of my own favorite setups and combinationss of various warframes+weapons, after spending hours upon hours of making them work, testing, managing, etc. And I'd rather use THOSE existing builds that I've ALREADY spent time on building. Not randomly generated nonsense that takes away my agency over how I want to engage with this or that challenge.

ie. I am very good at repeating the same thing over and over again but struggle with problem solving.

And there's nothing wrong with that, we're all good at some things and not good at others, but that is what makes this mode different from anything else which is why I like it.

This is why its fun for me and not so much for you. And, again, there is nothing wrong with that. As we agreed on, fun is subjective.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

16 hours ago, obiwandandobi2 said:

ie. I am very good at repeating the same thing over and over again but struggle with problem solving.

And there's nothing wrong with that, we're all good at some things and not good at others, but that is what makes this mode different from anything else which is why I like it.

This is why its fun for me and not so much for you. And, again, there is nothing wrong with that. As we agreed on, fun is subjective.

Which is why there should be a different way to get exact same rewards, in same exact amounts... One that will (and should) still use the same Netracell "keys", being an alternative to DA/EDA, rather than "yet another one on top". A mode that does not involve mechanics that many people do not find fun - such as the nonsensical gear randomizer.

Options. Alternatives. You know? You find it fun - you play this. Many don't find it fun, so we'll just play that other thing instead. As long as our agency isn't taken away from us and as long as there is the same exact rewards, in the same exact amounts. Then everyone will be happy and have fun. No?

[Joylesstuna]

On 2024-04-25 at 1:04 PM, vixenpixel said:

Elite Archimedea to me is the pinnacle of warframe gameplay. From MR 1 we have been collecting frames and weapons and honing our ability to tackle the game in a variety of ways and now we are being tested. Wipe your noses kids, strap in and get gaming.

All those frames and weapons we have collected and worked on for years? Ya, we can't use 90% of them because we arbitrarily can't equip them in deep Archimedea.

Your reasoning works both ways. Randomized equipment and modifiers do not test the "honing our ability" part.

[vixenpixel]

On 2024-06-01 at 4:13 AM, Joylesstuna said:

All those frames and weapons we have collected and worked on for years? Ya, we can't use 90% of them because we arbitrarily can't equip them in deep Archimedea.

Your reasoning works both ways. Randomized equipment and modifiers do not test the "honing our ability" part.

 I see we have a revenant main in our midst.

[Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, vixenpixel said:

 I see we have a revenant main in our midst.

That's not very nice but feel free to check my in game profile for a surprise.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

4 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

 I see we have a revenant main in our midst.

Even if they are. So what? People like what they like. And they are free to like what they like. Revenant or whatever else. It's their choice, their preference.

Warframe - the game - is all about the choice of how you wanna play it and engage with this or that piece of content. DA/EDA takes away that choice aka goes against what the game stands for. All while locking rewards behind it. So you have to engage in this anti-Warframe mechanic if you want the rewards. And you do - because you can't farm them per week anywhere else in the same amounts. So there will be engagement with this mode(I know I'll be doing it weekly and I am), but it will not be fun. It will be anti-fun. Done and out, "thank god it's over" type of deal, then move on to something actually fun.

Edited June 4 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[vixenpixel]

I've already said my piece about this. Nothing said afterwards is a proper response to it. It's just people regurgitating "this is not true warframe because warframe lets me use my entire arsenal". 

But the truth is that it does let you use your entire arsenal! In fact, if your arsenal is filled with weapons you modded, picking your loadout is exciting. The problem is that the majority of the people upset in this thread didn't take advantage of their arsenal or they did not farm most of the weapons yet or they sold all the "S#&$" ones. Look, you are not alone. When Duviri dropped, I rebuilt alot of weapons. But if you have only a couple of weapons and a couple of frames, this is going to be a frustrating game mode for you. I think that's what the majority are complaining about. And I really get that. But all this "this isn't warframe, in warframe they need to let me use all my weapons and frames at my leisure, that's whats fun for me" comes across as nothing more than whining. It is beneath you guys. 

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

9 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

I've already said my piece about this. Nothing said afterwards is a proper response to it. It's just people regurgitating "this is not true warframe because warframe lets me use my entire arsenal". 

But the truth is that it does let you use your entire arsenal! In fact, if your arsenal is filled with weapons you modded, picking your loadout is exciting. The problem is that the majority of the people upset in this thread didn't take advantage of their arsenal or they did not farm most of the weapons yet or they sold all the "S#&$" ones. Look, you are not alone. When Duviri dropped, I rebuilt alot of weapons. But if you have only a couple of weapons and a couple of frames, this is going to be a frustrating game mode for you. I think that's what the majority are complaining about. And I really get that. But all this "this isn't warframe, in warframe they need to let me use all my weapons and frames at my leisure, that's whats fun for me" comes across as nothing more than whining. It is beneath you guys. 

It's not about having/not having weapons - at least for me, as I have most of the stuff either way.

It's about not wanting to use what the game picks for me, but rather what I want to use. To have freedom of choice. Without the rewards for completing being taken away from me, simply because I refused to use the randomly generated gear.

Especially after I've already invested into building a variety of combinations of warframe+weapons+companions, where most of these contribute each other via modding. They are a complete set, synergizing together - mods on weapons contribute to warframe's survivability and so on. I spent time and effort into making those work, building properly, formaing multiple times, testing, min-maxing and making those setups be able to complete all of the rest of the game's content just fine. Multiple various setups for survival mode(depending on the mood), multiple setups for fast-completing missions (capture, mobile def, etc), multiple setups for defenses (depending if it's an object or operative), multiple setups for exterminates and so on. I've already invested in them. And I want to use them. Just like I can in the rest of the game.

This mode takes all that away, takes away the core Warframe(the game) game loop. Why? "Because reasons". As a truly lazy attempt of creating "challenge and difficulty". When in reality, it fails to do even that - by literally leaving a "flex slot", which completely invalidates the whole point of this supposed "challenge and difficulty", allowing to use powerful and "meta" stuff in one slot to literally work-AROUND the system. And all people do is just find said work-arounds to "solve" this mode once a week, get rewards and not touch it again until the reset. People choose not to engage with it - because it's bad.

My "solution", my work-around the bullS#&$ mechanic? Dante + RNG weapons + all modifiers (for full rewards except last vosfor), then just go go pub matchmaking. I keep people alive via infinite overguard spam (occasional killing with abilities OR weapons, if the RNG is good to give me something actually usable), people do the whole mission for me. Yup. Pub leeching, pretty much. Because I refuse to engage deeper than this with a mechanic that takes away player's agency over how to play the game.

Edited June 6 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_