I genuinely cannot understand Deep Archimedia sympathizers

[Gaxxian]

Duplicated

Edited June 11 by Gaxxian

[Lime-Prime]

24 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Whats the problem to solve? There is Abbreviated Abilities? Pick Revenant if you had a good RNG weapon or choose between Baruuk or Dante otherwise. There is NOT Abbreviated Abilities? Pick Revenant if you had a good RNG weapon or choose between Baruuk, Dante, Titania or Valkyr otherwise.

I didn't even look at which missions or modifiers they have, i let the game "surprise" me while i'm doing EDA. The only thing that I look is at the RNG so i can fill the gaps into my gear and then i go. Not a very interesting problem here. That why i find EDA just boring and an annoyance to play, isn't difficult at all, it just removes my freedom to pick whatever i want to use.

 

Edit: you can also pick Wisp or Styanax. And are others like that... i didn't wanted to go too deep, i think that the idea is clear.

I think you are right in that there are some "standard solutions", so of course one could do that. I will say that we have sometimes tried to solve it with the weekly frames and so on, but of course there have been occasions where we decided to resort to the "safe options" and sacrificed the last vosfor reward. So you are absolutely right, this is a way to do it, perhaps not the most fun way. I can definitely see why this is not so interesting for some people, for me and my friend it has been interesting in the sense that we tried to make the less "gifted" frames or weapons work somehow. Not always successfull.

 

Some modifiers like the "75% reduction to duration" do suck the fun out of it I will admit, as these just make a lot of frames functionally disabled and tedious/impossible to use. They could have been a little smarter with these debuffs to make them less impactful on frame choices.

Edited June 11 by Lime-Prime

[Traumtulpe]

30 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

I didn't even look at which missions or modifiers they have, i let the game "surprise" me while i'm doing EDA.

Haha, I did the same until I went with Harrow one time when I also had abbreviated abilities and energy drain. Not fun, so now I do check the modifiers...

[Gaxxian]

hace 31 minutos, Traumtulpe dijo:

Haha, I did the same until I went with Harrow one time when I also had abbreviated abilities and energy drain. Not fun, so now I do check the modifiers...

Oh right. I mean the individual mission modifiers. Not the player ones. That ones i look at them to know which frame to pick.

hace 41 minutos, Lime-Prime dijo:

I think you are right in that there are some "standard solutions", so of course one could do that. I will say that we have sometimes tried to solve it with the weekly frames and so on, but of course there have been occasions where we decided to resort to the "safe options" and sacrificed the last vosfor reward. So you are absolutely right, this is a way to do it, perhaps not the most fun way. I can definitely see why this is not so interesting for some people, for me and my friend it has been interesting in the sense that we tried to make the less "gifted" frames or weapons work somehow. Not always successfull.

I like to make build. But not for a single mission for a single week. Thats losing my time. Specially if i need to use formas and similars. And also only if i like the stype of the warframe or the weapon.

hace 43 minutos, Lime-Prime dijo:

Some modifiers like the "75% reduction to duration" do suck the fun out of it I will admit, as these just make a lot of frames functionally disabled and tedious/impossible to use. They could have been a little smarter with these debuffs to make them less impactful on frame choices.

All the modifiers are just there to be annoyances. They didnt second think anything -__-

[Gaxxian]

En 11/6/2024 a las 12:33, Lime-Prime dijo:

and sacrificed the last vosfor reward

If you really dont want to lose the last vosfor reward you can workaround the RNG: just make a cleanwork of anything that you posses that isnt strictly meta.

Since E/DA choose at bare minimum one thing that you have, if you clean anything that isnt meta you will asure that you will have a full meta arsenal each week.

 

E/DA don't just remove my ability to choose whatever i want to play, but also encourages me to remove anything that i have saved just because i find it fun even when its not "the best". It's fun when you think that people says that the RNG encourages variety.

[vixenpixel]

So far all I've seen is people complaining about not having the option to bring any loadout they want into the challenge but they offer no counter solutions. How do you challenge the players that want to have a challenge in warframe? Do you guys have a suggestion what DE could do instead or for future challenging content?

[Traumtulpe]

4 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

So far all I've seen is people complaining about not having the option to bring any loadout they want into the challenge but they offer no counter solutions. How do you challenge the players that want to have a challenge in warframe? Do you guys have a suggestion what DE could do instead or for future challenging content?

The problem is you get 3 options except oftentimes you don't even have two out of those, so you get *no* options. Basically the game just randomizes your loadout for you, and I have zero interest in playing a game that randomizes me into Limbo with some random garbage non-primed non-incarnon mastery fodder trash weapon that is probably also bugged on top of it, and then tells me to go screw m... to go kill Leech Eximus Necramechs.

The solution is simple, make harder content. Give us a level 9999 mission for starters, people have been asking for years. There's been level 9999 alerts in the past, so we even have precedent.

[vixenpixel]

31 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The problem is you get 3 options except oftentimes you don't even have two out of those, so you get *no* options. Basically the game just randomizes your loadout for you, and I have zero interest in playing a game that randomizes me into Limbo with some random garbage non-primed non-incarnon mastery fodder trash weapon that is probably also bugged on top of it, and then tells me to go screw m... to go kill Leech Eximus Necramechs.

The solution is simple, make harder content. Give us a level 9999 mission for starters, people have been asking for years. There's been level 9999 alerts in the past, so we even have precedent.

So enemies one-shot you and are bulletsponges. That's the best idea you can come up with? Same argument people in this thread made to say EDA is not challenging is perfectly applicable to levelcap missions because Revenant with torid would just p**p all over those 9999 enemies while leaning against a wall having a smoke. Raising the level of the enemies in EDA to 9k while removing the randomizer would just force people to use a select few meta weapons/frames. If that's your idea of a good challenge, you basically just took 95% of your available arsenal and threw it out the window. There is zero creativity at play here.

I appreciate the way DE is trying to re-invent the concept of challenge in Warframe. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

If that's your idea of a good challenge, you basically just took 95% of your available arsenal and threw it out the window. There is zero creativity at play here.

Yes, that is my idea! At least now it's a choice whether to throw away your arsenal, as opposed to the game forcing it on you. Last I checked, there are plenty of pretty creative high level setups, so again it would at least be a choice whether to faceroll with Revenant Torid, or be creative.

[Traumtulpe]

14 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

I appreciate the way DE is trying to re-invent the concept of challenge in Warframe. 

Great, so the next step is a blank frame with no abilities and two empty weapon slots. Because quite frankly, playing Limbo is almost like having no abilities, and you generally only ever use one weapon out of the offerings - everything else just gets equipped for points and ignored.

I don't know about you, but I don't play Warframe to have empty weapons slots, and some kind of crappy crutch in the remaining one, while stuck in a frame that I despise and would Helminth off *all* of his abilities if I could.

And you know what, it's *still* not hard. If all else fails just spam specters or use the operator. Or get carried by a group. Or just wait till next week and get lucky with one of the many frames that make you auto win any mission (Revenant, Octavia, Dante, Styanax, etc.)

[vixenpixel]

3 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Great, so the next step is a blank frame with no abilities and two empty weapon slots. Because quite frankly, playing Limbo is almost like having no abilities, and you generally only ever use one weapon out of the offerings - everything else just gets equipped for points and ignored.

I don't know about you, but I don't play Warframe to have empty weapons slots, and some kind of crappy crutch in the remaining one, while stuck in a frame that I despise and would Helminth off *all* of his abilities if I could.

And you know what, it's *still* not hard. If all else fails just spam specters or use the operator. Or get carried by a group. Or just wait till next week and get lucky with one of the many frames that make you auto win any mission (Revenant, Octavia, Dante, Styanax, etc.)

Well if they make content that they consider an elite challenge then maybe its expected you own at least half of everything. Not a third? That is the whole point I was making. People can still attempt the challenge but its difficulty is affected by how many weapons and frames you have acquired and it encourages diversifying your arsenal. I'm saying that's a good thing. :) 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

Well if they make content that they consider an elite challenge then maybe its expected you own at least half of everything.

What elite skills are we testing here? Builds and combat prowess? Low level grinds and spending plat to collect stuff we don't care about?

[NeDesitVirtus]

13 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

What elite skills are we testing here? Builds and combat prowess? Low level grinds and spending plat to collect stuff we don't care about?

Yes.

Teshin says,

"It is the resourcefulness of your modification, synergy, and teamwork to overcome obstacles that makes a Tenno.

Take care of your gear and it will save your life. Neglect it and your enemies will prevail.

All of the the rigors of the Steel Path have been designed to prepare you for this crucible."

Edited Thursday at 06:47 PM by NeDesitVirtus

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, NeDesitVirtus said:

Take care of your gear

Is Teshin a hoarder? I do take very good care of my gear, I see no pragmatic purpose in game or lore to clutter my arsenal with obsolete tech. Might as well let Lotus consign my old useless gear to needy Tenno. If I occasionally have to re-grind something because a buff made it suddenly interesting to me, so be it, but I'm not going to go back and waste resources on gear that I don't enjoy (or gear that is simply bad).

[Traumtulpe]

6 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

Well if they make content that they consider an elite challenge then maybe its expected you own at least half of everything.

4 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Low level grinds and spending plat to collect stuff we don't care about?

Do you know how many secondary dual pistols there are? I don't, but what I know is that there was no point at all in having more than one pair of them before DE began forcing us to use random garbage.

I'm MR 28 (or was it 27? Whatever), I just haven't spent 5000 plat on Forma and weapon slots is all. So you're saying it's a plat check instead of a challenge, did I get that right?

Edited Thursday at 10:47 PM by Traumtulpe

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

So you're saying it's a plat check instead of a challenge, did I get that right?

Yes correct, having a bunch of forma'd junk lying around is an arbitrary grind/plat wall, not a challenge or skill check. Nothing elite about it.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

On 2024-04-11 at 5:31 PM, _COY_ said:

Why I like this mode:

• It challenges me to actually prepare for a run
• Playing against lvl400 in elite mode feels more fair - my gear considered
• It reduces the rather boring Netracell runs to 3
• The rewards are good for the time spent (even if we fail)
• It is optional, you don't miss any exclusive loot if you don't run it
• I already liked the Duviri RNG for SP circuit (I might be the only one, though)
• It's a weekly, it keeps me playing the game as I have all gear already

-c0y

The only way to get the Eye Sumdali (which is exclusive loot) is by completing EDA with all de-buffs.
Failing the mission = getting none of the listed rewards which is the point of doing the missions.
AND because have used Pulses to enter EDA, there is now less opportunity to get those rewards at a diminished drop rate from Netracell. 

Waiting 1.5 to 2hrs for getting a 3/4 group for EDA because of the lack of players on the Oceania server isn't fun, then to keep failing the mission because it happens to be one of the worst and we didn't know this, sucks as well.

Its been suggested i change to another server that has a higher population, which will increase the ping, making a hard mission even harder unnecessarily - already have max debuffs.

But we can always not do EDA if loadout and de-buffs are crap, right?! 
They are always crap so it means the legendary arcanes (and everything else on offer) are even further out of reach than trying to farm them from (still bad) lower drop rate of Netracell - which is time gated to 5 attempts per week (if don't attempt EDA) and Legendary arcanes are only at 10% drop rate. It would be easy to get zero for a few weeks making the farming of the 42 arcanes quite long and monotonous exercise (because both Melee Crescendo and Melee Duplicate are both r5 arcanes so would need 21 arcanes  of each arcane to be able to max both).

if EDA is meant to be endgame, then yes, its meant to be hard, but EDA is hard for the wrong reasons.
Any synergy we had from our own builds and the way we combine them, which also include companions, is lost.

If something is truly difficult, only a handful of players would manage to accomplish it. I don't think the Warframe community as a whole wants that.

Trying to do EDA is making the farming of Harrow systems look like fun.
DE can't make everyone happy all the time, and yes, me and players like me can always go play something else but that would drop the Oceania (and other) server population even lower.

 

[Drachnyn]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Twisted_Wisdom:

The only way to get the Eye Sumdali (which is exclusive loot) is by completing EDA with all de-buffs.
Failing the mission = getting none of the listed rewards which is the point of doing the missions.
AND because have used Pulses to enter EDA, there is now less opportunity to get those rewards at a diminished drop rate from Netracell. 

Waiting 1.5 to 2hrs for getting a 3/4 group for EDA because of the lack of players on the Oceania server isn't fun, then to keep failing the mission because it happens to be one of the worst and we didn't know this, sucks as well.

Its been suggested i change to another server that has a higher population, which will increase the ping, making a hard mission even harder unnecessarily - already have max debuffs.

But we can always not do EDA if loadout and de-buffs are crap, right?! 
They are always crap so it means the legendary arcanes (and everything else on offer) are even further out of reach than trying to farm them from (still bad) lower drop rate of Netracell - which is time gated to 5 attempts per week (if don't attempt EDA) and Legendary arcanes are only at 10% drop rate. It would be easy to get zero for a few weeks making the farming of the 42 arcanes quite long and monotonous exercise (because both Melee Crescendo and Melee Duplicate are both r5 arcanes so would need 21 arcanes  of each arcane to be able to max both).

if EDA is meant to be endgame, then yes, its meant to be hard, but EDA is hard for the wrong reasons.
Any synergy we had from our own builds and the way we combine them, which also include companions, is lost.

If something is truly difficult, only a handful of players would manage to accomplish it. I don't think the Warframe community as a whole wants that.

Trying to do EDA is making the farming of Harrow systems look like fun.
DE can't make everyone happy all the time, and yes, me and players like me can always go play something else but that would drop the Oceania (and other) server population even lower.

 

I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly. Did you think you only have 1 try at the EDA per week and if you fail that's it for the week?

[Twisted_Wisdom]

Just now, Drachnyn said:

I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly. Did you think you only have 1 try at the EDA per week and if you fail that's it for the week?

No. If can't get through it, it doesn't matter how many attempts are made if continue to fail it.
And considering how long it takes to get a group, why would i bother further?
I play warframe to have fun, not to wait around in Recruiting chat for hours in the hope of getting a group that MIGHT succeed at completing 3 crappy debuffed missions.

[Drachnyn]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Twisted_Wisdom:

No. If can't get through it, it doesn't matter how many attempts are made if continue to fail it.
And considering how long it takes to get a group, why would i bother further?
I play warframe to have fun, not to wait around in Recruiting chat for hours in the hope of getting a group that MIGHT succeed at completing 3 crappy debuffed missions.

Ah I see.

But why not drop down to 34 research points then if you see your gear selection is wonky. The sumdali is a one time reward (and a very ugly one at that) and the 50 vosfor are not worth it as a reward.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

Ah I see.

But why not drop down to 34 research points then if you see your gear selection is wonky. The sumdali is a one time reward (and a very ugly one at that) and the 50 vosfor are not worth it as a reward.

Exclusive reward, eye sumdali.
I got burned because i didn't know this weeks EDA was S#&$e and i can't solo it anyway so still need a group. I mean, the point of EDA being the way it is, is so players are more likely to group to assist each other and it still sucks.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

On 2024-04-13 at 4:24 AM, Nelsconey said:

Most endgame players would have zero trouble with these weapons.  They have incarnon adapters as well. 

Define endgame player.
I am LR4 with everything in game maxed except I have some, not all, of the incarnon weapon adaptors.
I stopped farming them because i really HATE the random loadouts required for farming the adaptors. 
That would also mean i don't fit into your the category of 'most', but that also doesn't mean players like me are irrelevant.

If an endgame player has everything in game maxed, this does NOT mean they have a good builds on everything. There is a lot of MR fodder weapons out there that were never worth using catalyst/forma on. To find out this late in my warframe game that i needed to have put a good build on everything i have in my arsenal of 527 weapons, is depressing, its upsetting, considering how long it took to get where i am in game at this point.

[Drachnyn]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Twisted_Wisdom:

Exclusive reward, eye sumdali.
I got burned because i didn't know this weeks EDA was S#&$e and i can't solo it anyway so still need a group. I mean, the point of EDA being the way it is, is so players are more likely to group to assist each other and it still sucks.

Would you not rather go for 34 than get nothing at all?

[Twisted_Wisdom]

On 2024-04-19 at 1:03 AM, Mr.Holyroller said:

I genuinely can't understand people that have thousands of hours in this game and they only want to play alone...

I don't understand the wanting to use only one loadout for everything but i can offer a perspective on the reason why i generally prefer solo game play.

I get simulator sickness. If i have to take a long break from playing warframe, when i come back to it, i have to regain my tolerance for the game, starting at 15min intervals, gradually lengthening how long i can play the game, over several weeks. Simulator sickness is basically feeling travel sickness. Its not pleasant.
As long as my tolerance for simulator sickness is maintained, I can play the game as long as I want.

Both Volt and Wisp can provide the group with speed buffs which can aggravate simulator sickness and as they are very popular warframes its hard to get a group that doesn't have either. If i randomly group with a player that spams Volt speed, i have to get away from that player if possible (which means kinda not doing the mission either) or i spend the whole mission back flipping to get out of the spammed speed buffs instead of doing the mission.
Some volt players will stop using speed buff if asked, but that's not fair on them either.

Wisp buffs can be voidsling through IF dont walk into them by accident because busy trying to slaughter everything. And there is no rolling out of Wisp buffs.
Some players will avoid using speed buffs is asked and others set about spamming everything. Again, its not fair on group that wants to use speed buffs, to ask them not to use it.

I also can't use Styanax's 4th or Protea's 4th because both movements aggravate simulator sickness, which is a pity because they are both good warframes.
 

[sXeth]

11 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Do you know how many secondary dual pistols there are? I don't, but what I know is that there was no point at all in having more than one pair of them before DE began forcing us to use random garbage.

I'm MR 28 (or was it 27? Whatever), I just haven't spent 5000 plat on Forma and weapon slots is all. So you're saying it's a plat check instead of a challenge, did I get that right?

Yeah, I forma’d out the grakatas cause memes and the gremlins prisma because sure. And the stilettos to try outvthe augment mod.

Off the top of my head, I’d need a really solid reason to additionally start investing in the other 11 near identical ones (especially with semi also becoming autos now)

Heavy Blades are another fun category, all but 2 of them are crit/stat hybrids. They run identical builds, so once you decide your personal aesthetic favourite of Gal/Gram/Scindo/War/Patacesis/etc the others are just clones that would waste your forma.