Petition: Make enemy kubrows smell invisible frames

[blackstraykitten]

Ever since grineer kubrows were introduced i expected them to attack me even in invisible mode. Did i expect too much?

edit: im fine if concensus didnt like to have invisibility be nerfed by specific units. i just thought the game is too easy(most of the time) for inivible frames specially since even boss units cant see or has not anti invisiblity moves

Edited May 11 by blackstraykitten
more opinion added

[trst]

Hyekka Masters were supposed to be able to see invisible units. But that was either scrapped before they were added, was removed at some point, or their detection range is so small nobody has ever noticed it.

But that said it'd be neat if at least some enemies/hazards mattered against invisibility. But at this point it wouldn't do much of anything aside from maybe hinder the rare occasion of someone actually stealth farming. Really we need DE to move beyond stealth 0.5 as it's still the only system that's nearly as old as the game and yet has never been reworked minus the addition and balancing of stealth affinity.

Edited May 11 by trst

[0_The_F00l]

Ooh yes , i was really hoping that the hyekkas and kubrows would be able to detect frames within a range atleast.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

And just while ago people complained that eximuses ignored inisibility limbo in rift.

But it be fun that then could walk near you pretend they dont know you there and suddenty hit you.

Edited May 11 by AntifreezeUnder0

[MaxTunnerX]

2 hours ago, blackstraykitten said:

(kubrows) attack me even in invisible mode.

This is my opinion on what you just suggested:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 11 by MaxTunnerX

[Waeleto]

Maybe that'll happen with companion rework part 2, whenever that is coming

[CrownOfShadows]

I legit think about this every time I walk past their snouts on an Ivara farm. Ain't no way they don't sense me.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

Loki can somehow silence the loudest possible weapons while he's invisible (with a mod), I'm pretty sure he can mask his scent.

Also, this is assuming a lot, mainly that Warframes have a scent in the firstplace. After what the Helminth Mutation did to their bodies to transform them into Warframes, it's a bit of a reach to just assume they'd even have pores for a scent to escape from. In the meantime we can't even be sure they have mouths.

Pass.

[Loza03]

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, Invisibility in a vacuum is definitely a problem. It's basically nearly invulnerability, especially in Solo. If enemies don't aggro to you they won't use their abilities to kill you, after all.

On the other hand, Invisibility isn't in a vacuum. It's sitting next to Mesa, Saryn and Dante, wondering vaguely why it was ever introduced, and then looking over at crowd control and saying "Well at least I'm not THAT guy."

[Merkranire]

Wouldn’t say no to more counter invisibility options

[SneakyErvin]

Yeah more things to counter stealth would be good. I'm still amazed we dont have "scanner" units among the enemies that are there to detect and paint stealthed frames.

Honestly though I think they should just remove stealth as it is from the game and improve the defenses of the frames that rely on it. At that point they could come up with new mission types aswell that involves actual stealth gameplay, since you'd no longer be able to cheese it with abilities.

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Loki can somehow silence the loudest possible weapons while he's invisible (with a mod), I'm pretty sure he can mask his scent.

Also, this is assuming a lot, mainly that Warframes have a scent in the firstplace. After what the Helminth Mutation did to their bodies to transform them into Warframes, it's a bit of a reach to just assume they'd even have pores for a scent to escape from. In the meantime we can't even be sure they have mouths.

Pass.

Loki doesn't need a mod to silent weapons that's Ivara, unless she is using a silent weapon.

 

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

^{_{Yeah more things to counter stealth would be good. I'm still amazed we dont have "scanner" units among the enemies that are there to detect and paint stealthed frames.}}

Honestly though I think they should just remove stealth as it is from the game ^{_{and improve the defenses of the frames that rely on it. At that point they could come up with new mission types aswell that involves actual stealth gameplay, since you'd no longer be able to cheese it with abilities.}}

Spoiler

A few enemies can see stealth now, though it would be crazy if it got added too.

Edited May 11 by Slayer-.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Loki doesn't need a mod to silent weapons that's Ivara, unless she is using a silent weapon.

Unlike Prowl, Loki's Invisibility doesn't break on using a loud weapon but nearby enemies will become alerted and zero in on his location.  (A few enemy types can also attack temporarily.)

His augment Hushed Invisibility makes loud weapons silent, preventing that issue. (DE, make this exilus, please.)

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Loki doesn't need a mod to silent weapons that's Ivara, unless she is using a silent 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Hushed Invisibility Augment mod.

[blackstraykitten]

5 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Also, this is assuming a lot, mainly that Warframes have a scent in the firstplace. After what the Helminth Mutation did to their bodies to transform them into Warframes, it's a bit of a reach to just assume they'd even have pores for a scent to escape from. In the meantime we can't even be sure they have mouths.

we can assume the frame doesnt have scent but the equipment you bring should
also we can assume the frme doesnt have scent but shouldnt it pick up a scent from being everywhere and not being washed? (idk i havent seen a warframe bath in the orbiter, lol)

[Slayer-.]

 

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Unlike Prowl, Loki's Invisibility doesn't break on using a loud weapon but nearby enemies will become alerted and zero in on his location.  (A few enemy types can also attack temporarily.)

His augment Hushed Invisibility makes loud weapons silent, preventing that issue. (DE, make this exilus, please.)

Damn, I don't remember that I haven't played Loki in years, it's good to know that and for someone to remind my old brain.

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

The Hushed Invisibility Augment mod.

I checked my old Loki build from years ago, it appears I never used it I think, I thrashed the living hell out of Loki with usage when I first started playing hence why it's still the top frame in my profile even after not using it for years. 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

59 minutes ago, blackstraykitten said:

we can assume the frame doesnt have scent but the equipment you bring should
also we can assume the frme doesnt have scent but shouldnt it pick up a scent from being everywhere and not being washed? (idk i havent seen a warframe bath in the orbiter, lol)

Again, more assumptions.

Why would our gear/guns smell any different than the guns the grineer or corpus carry? If we don't have a scent, we're not leaving one on a gun.

Also who says the Warframes don't get washed? Where are they when you're not using them?

[UnstarPrime]

I get the desire, as dogs detecting stealth can be a fun mechanic in certain stealth-based games.  However, over the years Warframe's design has continually drifted further and further away from stealth-based gameplay.  Many high-end players have found that it's far more effective to just run face-first through laser grids while noisily killing everything in their way on the way to the Rescue targets and Spy Vaults, and they're not wrong.  As someone who actually likes stealth gameplay, part of why I wouldn't want this change is because it would even further deincentivize stealth gameplay by adding an additional impediment to a strategy that is already below the curve.  It would actually push Warframe further away from having stealth elements.

Personally, for the combat-focused game that Warframe is, I don't think Invisibility needs to be taken down a peg; in my experience, it's actually one of the weaker (though viable) strategies.  A hefty chunk of the meta at present is just to be so tanky that you don't have to care about incoming damage, which is much less fiddly than relying on invisibility for defense and thus needing to do things like dodge Eximus auras or pay attention to your team's positions so you can avoid stray projectiles.

[zThulsaDoomz]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Again, more assumptions.

Why would our gear/guns smell any different than the guns the grineer or corpus carry? If we don't have a scent, we're not leaving one on a gun.

Also who says the Warframes don't get washed? Where are they when you're not using them?

I naturally assume Voruna is in a kennel 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

54 minutes ago, zThulsaDoomz said:

I naturally assume Voruna is in a kennel 

Definitely a possibility

[Merkranire]

Wouldn’t say no, but I also would like a mod or something to go along with it to counter the counter. Something I’d have to specifically build for and consider what to swap out if so inclined, for gameplay customisation options.

Also so that people’d not *@##$ so much when they can’t no-brain, since they’ll have the equivalent of PSF but for invisibility, but that’d be a side effect of having such an option

[stormy505]

11 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Also, this is assuming a lot, mainly that Warframes have a scent in the firstplace. After what the Helminth Mutation did to their bodies to transform them into Warframes, it's a bit of a reach to just assume they'd even have pores for a scent to escape from. In the meantime we can't even be sure they have mouths.

They're infested flesh on the inside. They also require oxygen and will die when they lack it. Made of flesh and needing to breath likely means they're meat sacks, and meat sacks smell.

Beyond that, the amount of blood, guts, oil, and machinery that splashes onto frames as they rip and tear through enemies, I'd lean towards them having some sort of smell.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, stormy505 said:

They're infested flesh on the inside. They also require oxygen and will die when they lack it. Made of flesh and needing to breath likely means they're meat sacks, and meat sacks smell.

Beyond that, the amount of blood, guts, oil, and machinery that splashes onto frames as they rip and tear through enemies, I'd lean towards them having some sort of smell.

You're kind of right but missing quite a lot of lore.

The outer shell/skin of the Warframe is them. It's not some secondary suit they were put into or something to cover them up. When you look at Ash, that's what a naked human being transformed into a warframe looks like. It's in a description in the game, talking about how their skin turned into steel. When you look at Excal Umbras damaged head style, that's not a damaged helmet he's wearing, that's a hole in his face, with one of his human eyes buried under what he mutated into.

As for breathing? Humans can't survive for minutes at a time in the vacuum of space. Warframes can. There are tilesets where ships are damaged and there's no air because of the gaping hole in the side. Yet you could easily just walk from one end to the other without worrying about dying. Warframes "had" human lungs, but the literal evidence presented before your very eyes shows they have something different now. Whether that's Advanced Lungs or something else, we don't know. We do know the majority of frames don't have mouths or noses though, so they're breathing some other way.

As for the last point, I can't imagine our orbiter doesn't decontaminate anything that boards it, including the frames. Thinking your operator is going to run around a place like deimos without a simple decontamination protocol in place is basically painting your operator as fairly naive in a universe like this. They look like kids but have been alive for hundreds of years, if not more. I tend to land on the "they'd know better" side.

Edited May 12 by (PSN)MYKK678
.

[stormy505]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

As for the last point, I can't imagine our orbiter doesn't decontaminate anything that boards it, including the frames. Thinking your operator is going to run around a place like deimos without a simple decontamination protocol in place is basically painting your operator as fairly naive in a universe like this.

I mean, the operator has a body that can't get sick, dying from unnatural causes is just really, really hard to do unless their Oro gets destroyed. So catching illnesses probably isn't a worry. Also specifically for deimos, the infestation is depicted as being very afraid of the void, and tenno/operators so they aren't worried about "catching" the infestation.

They aren't particularly hygenic, otherwise you'd think they'd clean up the helminth room in their own ship to have less leaks and growths everywhere.

Even assuming they do clean after every mission, in mission you'd still go thousands to tens of thousands of dead bodies before the frame gets washed.

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

They look like kids but have been alive for hundreds of years, if not more. I tend to land on the "they'd know better" side.

The teenage operator was put into the dream to stop their aging, so yeah, they're technically centuries old but they haven't been consciously alive that long. And they aren't immortal (normally) otherwise Rell wouldn't have done the permanent transference into his frame. He had to do it cause his mortal body was deteriorating. Drifter is the exception cause of void timey wimey stuff slowing their aging process, but tenno DO age overtime.

Also explains lore actions. Drifter acts mature. The operator acts naive and coked up on hormones, which they are when you look at how long they've been consciously alive.
 

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

As for breathing? Humans can't survive for minutes at a time in the vacuum of space. Warframes can. There are tilesets where ships are damaged and there's no air because of the gaping hole in the side. Yet you could easily just walk from one end to the other without worrying about dying. Warframes "had" human lungs, but the literal evidence presented before your very eyes shows they have something different now. Whether that's Advanced Lungs or something else, we don't know. We do know the majority of frames don't have mouths or noses though, so they're breathing some other way.

Warframes also die within a few minutes without oxygen. When time on a survival mission runs out, the oxygen gets cut off they start dying. The speed depends on game mechanics but your average warframe dies pretty fast. Mag's entry talks about the archwing having life support in it. It's also the game mechanic behind survival, we kill enemies for oxygen to stay alive cause the enemies shut off the oxygen on their ships. 

People die in the vacuum of space without oxygen, lack of temperature, and the pressure difference between the air in their lungs and space would cause it to expand if someone tried to hold their breath to live. If you have an insulated suit for temperature, were in an environment where the pressure difference isn't there (like on a sci-fi ship) you could hold your breath and survive in that situation for a decent period (depends on the person a lot.)

I could totally believe they have improved lungs cause of how they still move well in low oxygen environments, but it's still functionally lungs breathing O-2.

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Wouldn’t say no, but I also would like a mod or something to go along with it to counter the counter. Something I’d have to specifically build for and consider what to swap out if so inclined, for gameplay customisation options.

Also so that people’d not *@##$ so much when they can’t no-brain, since they’ll have the equivalent of PSF but for invisibility, but that’d be a side effect of having such an option

I think one of the pet mods could do that , territorial agression , comes to mind immediately.

3 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

As for the last point, I can't imagine our orbiter doesn't decontaminate anything that boards it, including the frames. Thinking your operator is going to run around a place like deimos without a simple decontamination protocol in place is basically painting your operator as fairly naive in a universe like this. They look like kids but have been alive for hundreds of years, if not more. I tend to land on the "they'd know better" side.

Pretty sure the moment you touch down you start acquiring the smell of where you landed , when you cut open an artery and let the blood cover your weapon that smell is going to stay for some time , when you shoot weapons the gunpowder/ ionized air/ infested farts needed to launch your projectile will have lingering scents. When you slide across a landscape you get stuff stuck into your nooks and cranies , some of them may be smellier than others.

So yes , there are ways and means that frames can still have lingering effects that can alert enemies to their locations if they know what to look/smell/hear for.

That's of course just to highlight it as a possibility , some frames may have their own counters to it , like oberons old passive that just made animals allies. Or silent thrown weapons that leave no trace on the frame itself. 

This is all during a mission , there may if course be various things happening between missions for maintanence and cleanup.