Steam Forums and Pride Month

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 minute ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

With all due respect unstar, i get your point i was persecuted for a long time due to my skin color, the main thing is people weaponise anything they can, nobody cares who you like, what you identify as, what color you are but any slight difference people try to use that to gain an advantage ie in argument, in a social situation etc.

Can you elaborate?  I'm guessing you're trying to make a point but I'm not sure what it is and don't want to misinterpret you, especially with how heated some of this thread has become! ^^

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

answer your query in good faith, every day queer people are persecuted for just for existing.

You said this just here, i’m just saying that there is persecution all over no matter what, my point is that no matter what you say people will take anything they can weaponise and use it to try and win arguments ie (their sexuality, gender, color and so on) hopefully that makes sense, i’m really not the best with wording i’m sorry about that.

i also have to be careful i was told my opinion didn’t fit this thread.

Edited June 2 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[Letter13]

16 minutes ago, Joylesstuna said:

Even evil companies give to charity. It doesn't make up for anything.

Yes, but this counter-argument implies that DE falls into the 'evil company that has to make up for something' category, which I think you'd find it very difficult to prove. DE Donates to these groups not because they want to improve their public image, but because they want to help people. 

There are plenty of companies that celebrate Pride Month who don't donate to nonprofit orgs devoted to helping people.

1 minute ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

As companies who produce tobacco and alcohol also donates to respective AA groups for it. But still make money on it.

You dont want my honest answer. ^^

Yes, DE is a company that aims to make money, certainly, but equating them to tobacco/alcohol companies is a pretty poor equivalency argument. DE doesn't make a product that harms people; they don't have to 'make up for something' or pull PR 'stunts' to garner goodwill to offset bad juju from their business practices. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that DE's supporting Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ community is for selfish/business reasons.

[Letter13]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

i also have to be careful i was told my opinion didn’t fit this thread.

Let me clarify: you were told not to make off-topic or derailing comments that added nothing to the actual discussion taking place... like, and I quote:

"I commented for @Letter13 to sort this thread out before, just attaching this to your post incase my comment gets stealth deleted."

and

"@Letter13 get a grip of this thread, it’s turning into absolute trash."

You wanted me to 'get a grip of this thread'. And I did. And that involved removing a few of your comments (alongside some other users') and issuing you a verbal warning.

 

If you want to discuss this further, feel free to send me a private message.

[MagPrime]

7 hours ago, Silenzeio said:

I'm gonna be Captain Obvious when i say that Steam forums are already a toxic pit. But since the very second of Pride items coming to the in game market, the Steam forums of Warframe have just devolved into a toxic mess of anti-Pride screaming. 

Be interested in seeing if DE or Valve will step in to shut the forums down. 

There's this neat feature a lot of platforms have called "block" Not all of them are as robust as say, Facebooks but, still work enough.  

I don't care which side of the rainbow someone sits on, just stop whining like a child in the cereal isle and use the tools available to curate your online content.  

[Joylesstuna]

16 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

DE Donates to these groups not because they want to improve their public image, but because they want to help people. 

 

That is also difficult to prove. It is about money and image whether you like to admit or not.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

5 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Yes, but this counter-argument implies that DE falls into the 'evil company that has to make up for something' category, which I think you'd find it very difficult to prove. DE Donates to these groups not because they want to improve their public image, but because they want to help people. 

There are plenty of companies that celebrate Pride Month who don't donate to nonprofit orgs devoted to helping people.

Yes, DE is a company that aims to make money, certainly, but equating them to tobacco/alcohol companies is a pretty poor equivalency argument. DE doesn't make a product that harms people; they don't have to 'make up for something' or pull PR 'stunts' to garner goodwill to offset bad juju from their business practices. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that DE's supporting Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ community is for selfish/business reasons.

Any. Sensible buissness from a marketing standpoint would promote pride. Doing the opposite (outside of key countries which pride hopes to work for. We know which countries.) 

Is a substancial financial loss in cheap marketing. 

--So yes. It is a buissness reason.-- Cause if you do not puplicly state or do it. (Go look at V risings steam forums) there was some ppl starting threads demanding to know the companies standpoint on pride it if they should spend money on the game.

Given the rainbow icon they where using. 

I belive i know from what side of the glass they wanted to know.

The more pride i see. As a gay guy. I honestly am starting to dislike it more per year.

I dont wanna touch the subject of how it affects the younger generation. My replies will get me banned. 

[Kaiga]

5 hours ago, Prexades said:

I don't think it is having a net positive effect at this point. People who used to be positive or at least neutral about it, went to having a very negative opinion.

You can thank the ridiculous woke warrior bull from the political right for making that nonsense a major plank of their propaganda for the past few years, for this. Everywhere you look is some bonkers claptrap about LGBT sedition weakening the Christian values of a fictional nation, and this thread and these posts are part of it.

Nobody really cares that much.

 

The actual problem with the steam forums is that stupid, idiotic bait posts are rewarded now with clown awards given to posts, people do this intentionally to farm the free steam points from the awards.

There is something to be said about rainbow capitalism, companies putting on displays of fake solidarity, and also corporations like tencent who, because diversity is censored and LGBT stuff is illegal in many Asian countries, just remove it all together,

But that's probably a better topic for another subforum.

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

--So yes. It is a buissness reason.-- Cause if you do not puplicly state or do it. (Go look at V risings steam forums) there was some ppl starting threads demanding to know the companies standpoint on pride it if they should spend money on the game.

Your phrasing implies people asking these questions aren't to inform the consumer so they can make a choice but rather to force a company into doing something it doesn't like.  

While it being a business choice is accurate, because pretty much anything a company does is a business choice, I can't follow the reasoning that not participating will cause a business to close.  There are numerous small companies in my town that don't participate and are still doing fine.

[Geometries62]

4 минуты назад, MagPrime сказал:

While it being a business choice is accurate, because pretty much anything a company does is a business choice, I can't follow the reasoning that not participating will cause a business to close.  There are numerous small companies in my town that don't participate and are still doing fine.

I have a question. How many big western companies do not participate?

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Your phrasing implies people asking these questions aren't to inform the consumer so they can make a choice but rather to force a company into doing something it doesn't like.  

While it being a business choice is accurate, because pretty much anything a company does is a business choice, I can't follow the reasoning that not participating will cause a business to close.  There are numerous small companies in my town that don't participate and are still doing fine.

Not close. Loose -additional- financial gain by not jumping on the bandwagon.

Instead of a neutral line income curve. Pride month can and will affect if it goes negative or possitive above norm.

Economics 101.

This is what i was taught in college. Its plain easy to see.

 

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Geometries62 said:

I have a question. How many big western companies do not participate?

Not the easiest question to answer.  There are numerous large companies that support LGBTQ+ rights but do not put on a Pride spectacle.  The company that I work for is this way; the employee benefits are inclusive because they're based on civil & human rights but they don't go full rainbow during June and one wouldn't know this unless you worked there.    

 

6 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Not close. Loose -additional- financial gain by not jumping on the bandwagon.

Instead of a neutral line income curve. Pride month can and will affect if it goes negative or possitive above norm.

Economics 101.

This is what i was taught in college. Its plain easy to see.

 

Yeah, "economics 101" in there is a good way to shut down a conversation due to how overused and vague that is.  

Have a good one.

[Pakaku]

You can report the threads, and it's actually really convenient when bigots and trolls out themselves so easily

[Raarsi]

Note to self: add marshmallows to shopping list for next dumpster fire forum thread.

Honestly, I feel like the biggest takeaway should be that people just shouldn't use the Steam forums.  Seems like that's where the greater point of the nonsense here started.

So how dare you OP.  We don't need another game forum that's just a cesspit of humanity at this point to help cause such division here because this is a big boy game forum and we can do that ourselves!

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Raarsi:

Note to self: add marshmallows to shopping list for next dumpster fire forum thread.

Honestly, I feel like the biggest takeaway should be that people just shouldn't use the Steam forums.  Seems like that's where the greater point of the nonsense here started.

So how dare you OP.  We don't need another game forum that's just a cesspit of humanity at this point to help cause such division here because this is a big boy game forum and we can do that ourselves!

There are reviews for games there, even REAL ones. So the platform is important.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Yeah, "economics 101" in there is a good way to shut down a conversation due to how overused and vague that is.  

Have a good one.

If you honestly expect me to start linking to search for specific economics papers for a forum post that would take up 4 pages in itself to begin explaining what you are reading. Yes. That overused 101 will do. I aint got the mental need prove a point. This aint a classroom where economics are taught.

Have a good one!

[Hexerin]

57 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Yes, DE is a company that aims to make money, certainly, but equating them to tobacco/alcohol companies is a pretty poor equivalency argument. DE doesn't make a product that harms people; they don't have to 'make up for something' or pull PR 'stunts' to garner goodwill to offset bad juju from their business practices. I think you'd be hard pressed to prove that DE's supporting Pride Month and the LGBTQ+ community is for selfish/business reasons.

We'll just casually ignore DE's practices on the CN server, as well as DE being owned by the Chinese gov't.

Nothing to see there, nope, not at all.

[Letter13]

5 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

We'll just casually ignore DE's practices on the CN server, as well as DE being owned by the Chinese gov't.

Nothing to see there, nope, not at all.

You really still believe and are trying to peddle this hogwash?

DE doesn't manage the CN server (that's WeGame). Nor are they owned by the Chinese government (DE's parent company being Leyou/Tencent). While you can certainly argue that Leyou & Tencent have ties to the Chinese government (and they probably do, I won't refute that), they've also been hands-off with the development and direction of the international build of Warframe.

But this is an entirely different discussion that should be held elsewhere.

[Genitive]

Just now, Letter13 said:

You really still believe and are trying to peddle this hogwash?

DE doesn't manage the CN server (that's WeGame). Nor are they owned by the Chinese government (DE's parent company being Leyou/Tencent). While you can certainly argue that Leyou & Tencent have ties to the Chinese government (and they probably do, I won't refute that), they've also been hands-off with the development and direction of the international build of Warframe.

But this is an entirely different discussion that should be held elsewhere.

I'll just add to this, that given China's practice of censorship, any LGBT-related announcement would be promptly removed.

[(PSN)Unstar]

51 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

With all due respect unstar, i get your point i was persecuted for a long time due to my skin color, the main thing is people weaponise anything they can, nobody cares who you like, what you identify as, what color you are but any slight difference people try to use that to gain an advantage ie in argument, in a social situation etc,

44 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

You said this just here, i’m just saying that there is persecution all over no matter what, my point is that no matter what you say people will take anything they can weaponise and use it to try and win arguments ie (their sexuality, gender, color and so on) hopefully that makes sense, i’m really not the best with wording i’m sorry about that.

I think I get what you're saying; thanks for clarifying!  If I hear you right, you're saying that nobody actually cares about race or sex or gender, etc, and that what they really care about is "winning" or "getting an advantage" over others; that the aspects of people that get marginalized are simply interchangeable excuses to treat someone worse.  Hopefully I'm understanding you properly, because that's what I'll be replying to. ^^;

(I'm trying to spend less time at the computer today, so my wording may not be perfect; but hopefully the overall ideas I'm trying to communicate get through!)

On one hand, I can kind of see that.  I do think a non-trivial aspect of discrimination can often be a desire to feel better than others and to have more than others.  And it's without a doubt that the foundation of a lot of marginalization (for example, the slave trade) was in part due to that.  But from my personal experiences, while I do think that's an aspect of what's going on, I don't think that fully explains it.  I've met people who are totally fine with queer people but not fine with people of color.  And I've met people who are fine with people of color but not fine with other groups.  I've met people who are fine with some PoC but not others, etc.  So my experiences show me that these aren't simply interchangeable means to an end; people actually have different biases against different groups.

And I've had some of those biases myself.  Socialization is complex, but I received a lot of messaging during my formative years from a variety of sources that taught me some nasty falsehoods about various kinds of people.  It took me decades to realize they were there, it's taken me a long time to correct them to the extent that I have, and I assume I'll be putting intentional effort into weeding out the finer aspects of those biases for my entire life.  So it's no surprise to me that there are genuinely people who believe that people with a certain skin color or romantic preference are in some way lesser.

And I guess I'll also add that I do think some of this is evolutionary.  If you've got a small insular tribe and out of nowhere you see someone different than you, there's an evolutionary advantage to recognizing that they are different and being wary, because if you welcome them with open arms and then they kill you, your genes don't make it to the next round.  Unfortunately, such superficial instincts no longer benefit us in a post-melting pot society; they only hurt others.  Things will be better if we strive to be overcome this aspect of our natures, but I think it can be helpful to recognize that these instincts aren't entirely social phenomenon.

Now, are there some jerks who will use any leverage they can to get a leg up?  Almost certainly.  But my experience suggests to me that they're the minority. I think it's far more common that people have complex relationships with biases that they've accumulated for a variety of reasons.  I've seen people unlearn biases.  I've seen people grow.  And sometimes I've seen them shed some biases while keeping others.  People are complex.

To be clear, I won't pretend that I fully understand these phenomenon, but I think if we don't recognize their complexity we risk oversimplifying our understanding of them, and a lesser understanding of the problem mitigates our ability to solve it.

[Voltage]

This thread still isn't providing any value to the actual game or its playerbase. People just need to move on and keep to themselves. This is going the same direction as that one BLM thread DE made once on these Forums. It's completely off-topic.

1 hour ago, Letter13 said:

they don't have to 'make up for something' or pull PR 'stunts' to garner goodwill to offset bad juju from their business practices.

My guy, they just made an Heirlooms "correction" 2 days ago... which is also 11 years after their Founders program. You can't plead "oopsie-daisy" forever lol.

Edited June 2 by Voltage

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

7 hours ago, Prexades said:

People gotten tired of companies celebrating a pride month that usually lasts a full year.

Most people don't care what consenting adults do in their bedroom together. But it gets really, really tiresome that some have to put their preferences into everyones face.

One note you should be very careful of is that trolls and "conservative" people tend to flood their view on the month than anyone else. This means that, from a reader's perspective, "everybody" is tired of it. I've always hated that strategy but it is so well embedded that very few groups can counter it excepts by showing support for whatever cause it is. 

Another point to consider is that special civil celebrations, like Pride month, Black History month, etc, are celebrated specifically because some people still can't/won't accept equality. If you want to see a change, talk to the groups who campaign against these causes.

Edited June 2 by (PSN)GEN-Son_17
Grammar error

[Nekomian]

I'm a bit late here but, one thing I didn't really see discussed was also that pride celebrates inclusion of aromantic & asexual individuals; it's inherently not a sexual thing whatsoever, and even includes people who may actively avoid or dislike sexual themes. This kind of visibility of different perspectives in life is important to people of all ages, especially to those who may not know if how they express things is valid or a shared sentiment among others. It helps to know that there are others like you, and you're not alone if you feel a certain way, and that it's perfectly OK to talk about it and discuss these topics.

There's a ton of examples people could give of acting in either good or bad faith, both for and against certain aspects of pride month, and many have been discussed here (i.e. some businesses using celebration as a means of profit, oversexualization from some individuals in parades, great casting and inclusion of gay actors in media, visibility and awareness for individuals who may be confused or questioning, as well as funding resources and groups to assist individuals who may be facing discrimination or harm).

Ultimately though, pride month still exists for a reason - despite all of the good that's occurred surrounding inclusiveness and accessibility to rights, many individuals who identify as LGBTQIA+ (GSRM for people who prefer that term too) still face discrimination and persecution today, in 2024. This isn't discounting other groups that face these similar issues as well, nor should there be some comparison of "who has it worse" or something of that nature, but rather awareness and support to these topics is important to resolve them. This issue affects many members of the Warframe community deeply as well, though it is not limited to it by any means.

People just want to live in a world where they can respectfully be themselves without unnecessary burden or intentionally unfair laws or regulations that are strictly enforced to spite them, and pride month is a visible and tangible reminder that these issues still exist and affect people globally, but also that despite that people have a community to turn to when it does happen that shows acceptance and love.

[Hyroncore]

8 hours ago, Silenzeio said:

I'm gonna be Captain Obvious when i say that Steam forums are already a toxic pit. But since the very second of Pride items coming to the in game market, the Steam forums of Warframe have just devolved into a toxic mess of anti-Pride screaming. 

Be interested in seeing if DE or Valve will step in to shut the forums down. 

There is a solution to that report every post or thread with content of concern. Given how steam users are trying to review bomb Valve is likely already aware and DE arent Blizzard yet so have limited resources to manage socials/forums etc. Each year this is the same cycle and as hate becomes more prevalent be it anti-LGBTQI or race based each seasonal event gets worse. Frankly there is sadly only so much DE can do and while I am loathe to say it we community members have a part to play. While this is an important step like I said before we can take steps to report and ensure the people breaking Valve forum ToS are handled appropriately.

7 hours ago, Genitive said:

We witness the same song and dance every ear. Just ignore the idiots until they get bored.

DE do seem to moderate the steam forums, I saw several threads locked and a few users banned, but you have only that much time in the day.

This is only possible in part when people actively report the threads in question. Given how EXPLOSIVE the reaction was this year and all the related review bombing etc its a wonder any locks and bans are occuring. Hate is a vile insidious thing do what you can to help and remember DE isn't sitting idle.

7 hours ago, C11H22O1 said:

Well it would be good to not give them attention, no? Let them waste their time hating while regular people move on with their day

Sadly thats why history is littered by acts both horrific and unimaginable. To do nothing is to enable that behaviour and while each of us can only do so much our voices DO matter. Even if the vile bigotry isnt removed speaking out against it and being an ally at this time is a good thing.

7 hours ago, Zimzala said:

People have also gotten tired of being discriminated against for being non-cis-gendered and having cis people to tell them to be quiet while they produce far more cis oriented media that is in everyone's face, all the time.

It has nothing to do with what happens in the bedroom and everything to do with what happens in the boardroom.

Pride month is about having the courage to be who we are in the face of a group of people that want to silence us, if not outright kill us.

If it makes people think about the topic, that's the point. There are new people everyday who have to learn new things.

If you are already aware of these things, great, but you might want to try and understand that knowledge is not universal and that hate and bigotry are alive and well in 2024.

Welll HELL. The first time (First of MANY in this thread) where I agree with no reservation or concern. Absolutely well said. Perhaps just perhaps I misjudged. I will see how things play out but perhaps I did. 

6 hours ago, Prexades said:

I don't think it is having a net positive effect at this point. People who used to be positive or at least neutral about it, went to having a very negative opinion.

Prex again defending the indefensible and this time on a topic with real impact to humans not just snark over issues in a game. I genuinely wonder how you wrote that and hit submit? I mean at least Zimzala in their responses as far as I saw just on the first page were genuine in their conviction. This is......something else. And as insidious as the hate connected to it (NOT from you but the hate you tacitly support by diminishing the reality of how people are engaging with this topic)

6 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

I don't think you have a large enough sample size to determine that. There's a 100% guarantee that certain people will react like that, It absolutely should not be stopped on account of them.

Welcome to forums and the internet. Be skeptical but able to adjust your view BUT never accept people throwing numbers without a shred of supporting evidence (in reference to whom you reply to). That said I agree evemt like Pride existed for a very long time and people often forget Pride was never just about the sex or acts of private individuals. Its about being seen for who you are and as you said stopping or disconnecting from any valuable movement be it Pride or related issues is nothing but a resounding victory for those who spread the fear and hate.

5 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Why do you want to control what others see? If you feel discomfort, don't visit the forums. Same way I wouldn't watch a horror movie at night then complain to the studio that I had a nightmare or something. I don't have a problem with it as I'm an adult now so I have no problem seeing it, but others might. This community is all a bout inclusivity after all, why not be inclusive to those who find discomfort?

Agreed, it's a celebration that is sexual in nature. It's about peoples sexual preferences and not everyone wants to see themes about sexual preferences plastered all over the game they play and in their gaming news feeds. And what about the younger audience that play the game? I used to play this game on my Xbox in my early teens (for legal reasons since it's rated M, under my parents supervision in the living room), I don't think it's appropriate to advertise peoples sexual preference and what they do in their bedroom to legally speaking, children.

LMAO. This same argument was used in a freaking thread about MR30+ blasting away maps with low levels in a public run. That is to say its a worthless utterly disengenous one. I mean there are aspects of fairness like mr30+ can run lower content or that there are solo/invite/friend only but like that version this one ignores the utter arrogance involved in making the argument that one side shouldnt act in the way they do yet your side can and should. That is the worst and laziest form of argument and leads to an outcome designed not to create a resolution but cause more drama.

Also yay good for you your parents took their job of looking after you seriously (ALLEGEDLY). BUT thats irrelevant. The game is M+ and if you actually understood ratings AND looked at how lax most parents are when it comes to providing entertainment to kids it would SHOCK you. Like genuinely horrify you. Best example I can give is from personal experience not anecdote. I was not with my parents growing up (Ward of State) and during that time I was allowed not prevented from accessing material be it video or game that legally shouldnt have been available to me in that situation. Just because your situation was ideal does not immediately justify your "How dare you force other people to behave X" while at the same time saying something you disagree with is objectionable and shouldn't be allowed.

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Studies? Statistics? Actual good polling?

Or just 'what you read on gamer forums'?

There has always been a loud percentage of the population that does not like/enjoy/condone being told the same stuff each year that think they are 'above having to see', from Black History/Rights, to Women's History/Rights, to Non-cis History/Rights, to Valentines day, to Christmas.

As the general population grows, so do those numbers because they are based on percentages of the general population.

Right now, the percentage of the population that 'feels' anything in the media is the equivalent of them 'being told what to do' has been very vocal, because they see a world in which their influence and power has continued to erode.

So, while there may be a lot of whining and kvetching by people that have no tools to understand there are new people each year that need to learn the things a lot of people already know, I cannot see any real evidence that promoting non-cis respect and rights is having a non-net positive impact, with the exception of those who think just because they read a thing that someone is lecturing at them.

Again agreeing. Gods help me. And very VERY well said too this quote. One more like this and regardless of the prior exchanges you are due an absolute unreserved apology. One can hope I have that chance cause damn if you playing you are more devious than I expected if not well.....

5 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

Oh no the colors /o\ they so sexy :o

Dont be so excited. Some here and on Steam might be angry for you liking colors!

5 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

How is it bigoted? I'm very happy people are no longer being persecuted for having the freedom to be who they are, but as I mentioned before, this celebration involves sexual themes and I don't think it's appropriate advertising it, especially when minors can be exposed to it.

Lets be honest, it's not just about colours though, it's what they represent. I'm not saying they're representing something negative. As I have already said, I'm very happy society progressed and is no longer persecuting innocent people, it's just the sexual nature of this celebration isn't very appropriate, especially when minors can be exposed to it.

This is so uninformed I can't even begin to explain how narrow this is. And as before you are posing issues saying they are agreeable while clearly AND intentionally at this point missing the reasons for your issues. Damn dude don't want to learn how you manage the mental gymnastics and frankly the only comparison I can make would get me banned so well guess I cant enlighten you with the reality of how you are coming across.

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

We are already to "What about the children" I see.

What about the non-cis children that need to understand they are not alone?

What about the fact the human body is beautiful and sexuality is beautiful and should not be stigmatized?

What about teaching children the truth about the world over the delusions held by their parents?

What about the simple fact this is an M-rated game, so I should not have to worry about your children?

Sex is not Evil or Bad. Learning about different sexual orientations is not Evil or Bad.

Stigmatizing things because parents are too scared to talk about them is Evil and Bad.

Welcome to religious and cultural indoctrination. I suffered both as a kid and thankfully all my challenges aside never became another broken husk as a result. And gods damnit. I submit that our previous exchanges clearly hid something. While I am wary this is some ploy no genuine troll would dive THIS deep and honestly into topics like this. That said I really owe you that unreserved apology for now I am skeptical but very hopeful I am just misreading you (AND to be fair given the topic before I can hindsight being 20/20 and all appreciate that as challenging as I was I hope you can accept that apology in the honest way its meant to be)

5 hours ago, C11H22O1 said:

Minors shouldn't even be playing this game in the first place and I don't think there's anything sexual about it or at least it's not the focus, people loving each other isn't sexual at all.

I don't think you would ban kisses or love interests in media that kids consume would you?

Given the posts in this thread there are some who are likely hardcore baiting and pushing the line with their replies here. As per forum rules I can't wont directly name the one above you but a simple read is likely to show who I refer to.

Sadly this like some other topics have become a torch point at times and society is sadly being impacted by it as a result. Alot of the negative here so far appears to be either genuinely naieve and misinformed OR genuine hate. Sadly the latter NOT the former seems more prevalent so far.

5 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

In this case, I think it's the parents place to decide whether or not their child is exposed to it though considering they're minors. There's nothing wrong if a child identifies as non-cis, but morally speaking, why should strangers have the right to expose a minor to sexual themes? Same reason the age of consent is 18.

Same could be said of how dare people expose a 13 year old child to Facebook/Twitter/Instagram where they can consume far worse than a few items and color that they get in this game at this time. Not to forget you condemn sexuality it seems despite your failed protests to the contrary YET forget the visuals of the female form in WARFRAME. The duality you present is mindbogglingly painful/

5 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

I mean you're not wrong, but unless the company takes steps to verify age such as sending in their photo ID like YouTube does (which isn't entirely fool proof) then they should be a little more cautious since there's still that risk of a child lying about their age.

And here we go how dare you create a game that isnt perfectly protecting children. An argument as old as time itself. THE PARENTS are responsible for the actions of their child/ren. Just like that mother being convicted for enabling her child to cause loss of life in the US a couple years ago (conviction was more recent). Don't strawman and yell like this. Its unbecoming.

5 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:

you do realise we're talking about a M rated game here...?

They do and they also realise the game is disabled unless that child knows how to view the store page with their birthday and they ALSO know the sheer hypocrisy of their argument..

5 hours ago, FiveN9ne said:

Bro, there's literal p0rn on twitch, which used to be a gaming streaming site. Literally has a 13 year old age limit but they blur explicit content on the main page while at the same time not wanting to admit that the content is inappropriate... Money moves everything. As long as there is money involved, everyone will do whatever they want. 

And Twitch and Warframe relate how? And man you sure are naive I aint playing today because this topic is too important to be nice. Other threads warned of assumptions but sadly this whataboutism argument is something that is so readily used but rarely sustainable when under fire. Back up and clarify the comparison if you wish but dont spit out random things as though they are connected.

5 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Expose to what, exactly? If they are allowed to play WF, they are already exposed to sexualized content.

It's simply information.

Do you actually think parents OWN their children to the point they have a right to totally curate all data the children get?

That's called brainwashing.

I do not condone the idea that children are property to be brainwashed by their parents. The parents have an obligation to society to raised cortical thinkers that move society forward and the only way to do that is through education of reality, not stigmatizing things that make them uncomfortable.

Again simple. True. And clear.

5 hours ago, _Eclips3_ said:

True, but as I've said, there haven't been any steps taken to ensure a minor doesn't lie about their age. Not only that, but if this is an M rated game, why are people getting punished for using M rated language in the game? It's not very consistent. If it's to prevent other members from being uncomfortable, then that's a bit hypocritical here.

That's not an excuse though, porn is very harmful to young peoples development and can breed many insecurities and harmful perceptions against women. 

Again now we are transitioning to porn. The usual crux of the anti LGBTQI argument. Took you a fair bit longer than anticipated. And frankly that is the worst point to make and research has plenty of evidence to show that connection is far more vague than you claim. Care to provide counters? Given your recent responses I dont feel like digging out quotes AGAIN for debunking this ignorance but want to see the numbers that show porn impacts developement and creates the other scenarios mentioned. Side note what creates harm is saying that people can't express themselves in their way (INB4 You say what about that steam forums comment about requesting people be silenced that is NOT socialy acceptable behaviour AND Valve AND DE have rules against hatespeech.).

5 hours ago, FiveN9ne said:

I'm not giving an excuse, i'm agreeing with you and providing a similar example of logical inconsistency. 

Also, M rated game where you can't say a$$. That's laughable as all hell.

Facepalm. That arrogance is palpable from here. You would just as quickly complain if DE disabled the chat filter and got to see how COLORFUL region has been since Pride began. And if you werent your entire argument against the LGBTQI support DE has shown would be shown as the failed horror it is.

[Hyroncore]

41 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

You really still believe and are trying to peddle this hogwash?

DE doesn't manage the CN server (that's WeGame). Nor are they owned by the Chinese government (DE's parent company being Leyou/Tencent). While you can certainly argue that Leyou & Tencent have ties to the Chinese government (and they probably do, I won't refute that), they've also been hands-off with the development and direction of the international build of Warframe.

But this is an entirely different discussion that should be held elsewhere.

I chose not to engage that reply out of respect to the rules. Have to question how ignorant people are. Same issue when Tencent got involved in whichever game dev it was. Oh wait IIRC that was either Blizzard or DE cant recall which either way point is moot the only concern I have in ANY case is Chinas law that forces state owned companies to give personal info to the gov (the whole TikTok being banned in America trigger regarding Bytedance divestment) Letting it go though given your last sentence.