Let's talk Blast and Gas status.

[Traumtulpe]

So far Blast seems to only be good on sniper rifles, from what I've tried. I dunno if it benefits from sniper combo or what, but it does >50% health damage to surrounding targets if I kill the main target with a headshot, >100% with viral procs.

Other than that, it seems completely pointless. Like 100% useless. It does nothing on a primer, and on most weapons it does like 12% of the hit to surrounding enemies (and to the main target if it's still alive). For comparison, Electricity does 50% of the initial damage instantly, and then another 50% every second. So it's literally dealing 10 times the damage of Blast until the Blast proc explodes, and then Electricity does more than the same amount of damage again afterwards.

So as it stands Electricity is like 20-30 times stronger than Blast on most weapons, that can't be right, can it??

And yeah Gas... well, its usable I guess. Not pumped to put Gas damage on my weapons at all to be honest.

[Joezone619]

I'm just waiting for the wiki to be updated, no offence to DE but the info is too scrambled and scattered to be readable.

[Agall]

58 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

So far Blast seems to only be good on sniper rifles, from what I've tried. I dunno if it benefits from sniper combo or what, but it does >50% health damage to surrounding targets if I kill the main target with a headshot, >100% with viral procs.

Other than that, it seems completely pointless. Like 100% useless. It does nothing on a primer, and on most weapons it does like 12% of the hit to surrounding enemies (and to the main target if it's still alive). For comparison, Electricity does 50% of the initial damage instantly, and then another 50% every second. So it's literally dealing 10 times the damage of Blast until the Blast proc explodes, and then Electricity does more than the same amount of damage again afterwards.

So as it stands Electricity is like 20-30 times stronger than Blast on most weapons, that can't be right, can it??

And yeah Gas... well, its usable I guess. Not pumped to put Gas damage on my weapons at all to be honest.

But have you tried it on Furax with its Amalgam mod?

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

So far Blast seems to only be good on sniper rifles, from what I've tried. I dunno if it benefits from sniper combo or what, but it does >50% health damage to surrounding targets if I kill the main target with a headshot, >100% with viral procs.

It always has benefited from sniper combo.    Although sometimes I've seen odd behavior on  ongoing DoTs (not just gas) when unscoping after a scoped shot.

[Traumtulpe]

19 minutes ago, Agall said:

But have you tried it on Furax with its Amalgam mod?

It does nothing. Blast procs appear to deal ~12% damage of the hit, and the Amalgam Furax mod causes Blast procs with no damage. Like I said, Blast does nothing at all on a primer.

[Traumtulpe]

I'll state this a bit more precise to make it easier to understand:

Blast procs cause ~12% damage of the hit that procced Blast, once, after 1.5 seconds. That's it. Everything else is fluff and can be ignored.

Electricity procs cause ~50% of the damage of the hit that procced Electricity, 6 times, for a total of 300% damage. And it can benefit from headshot multipliers.

But then again, that's *so* terrible it shouldn't be right. Maybe it's also bugged in the Simulacrum right now.

Edited June 18 by Traumtulpe

[Merkranire]

Anyone have a feel for the simplified damage system and what it brings to the table?

[Traumtulpe]

4 hours ago, Merkranire said:

Anyone have a feel for the simplified damage system and what it brings to the table?

Honestly, it feels too "gamey" to me. Kinda makes every damage type the same. Before, the damage types had an identity, now the game just tells you to "equip blue/green/red", depending on mission.

[Xzorn]

Comically the Blast change was exactly what I mentioned. It's pretty much Explosive Arrow from Path of Exile.

Though my version allowed max stacks to knock down enemies again within the radius. Limiting one knock down per explosion.

If they stop putting armor of enemies other than Grineer then I could see more value in Gas but I still miss old Gas. The simplified damage doesn't do what it should long as Armor is in every faction IMO. I get the need to tweak Alloy Vs Ferrite but don't get to point behind HP types other than them really wanting Gas to work for Infested since it was still better to use Corrosive. Impact and Puncture seem totally backwards too. Esp since it's been like that since beta.

[_4shes]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Honestly, it feels too "gamey" to me. Kinda makes every damage type the same. Before, the damage types had an identity, now the game just tells you to "equip blue/green/red", depending on mission.

Eh, they had identity and no one bothered to use them. There's a reason why viral/slash was dominating the meta for a very long time. Also Cold and Magnetic do have more of a pronounced identity. Magnetic can tackle nullifiers, overguard and shields more effectively and Cold can straight up halt enemies and give a crit damage buff. Gas remains unchanged in this update and Blast changes are relatively new so who knows what will become of them, but I'd say some damage types still retain an identity.

[TARINunit9]

11 minutes ago, _4shes said:

Gas remains unchanged in this update and Blast changes are relatively new so who knows what will become of them, but I'd say some damage types still retain an identity.

There was a devblog where they heavily implied (though did not state) they're afraid to buff Gas at all because their number crunching shows a theoretical buffed form of Gas would immediately run away to God tier

Blast is just stuck in an eternal paradox. The weapon itself already causes a "blast" effect when it explodes and deals damage -- so what's left over for the Blast proc to do? They're on attempted answer number three now

[Merkranire]

37 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Honestly, it feels too "gamey" to me. Kinda makes every damage type the same. Before, the damage types had an identity, now the game just tells you to "equip blue/green/red", depending on mission.

Hmmm… pretty much what I was afraid of.

So far I’ve been switching between weapons for their archetypes, whereas before there was an extra layer of build and fighting consideration on top of archetype consideration due to how one weapon would be the ideal archetype for a situation (like a long-range sniper and playing keepaway) and ideal for some types of enemies within that scenario but also not so ideal for others due to what its damage was built for, which threw curveballs at me at times and the fight progressed in surprising ways and encouraged me to intertwine my weapons and abilities even more.

And players still aren’t going to care so long as they can just overpower everything regardless of how much DE want to try and entice uninterested players into making different builds, so the nuanced stuff gets lost while nothing gets solved

Edited June 19 by Merkranire

[_4shes]

6 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

There was a devblog where they heavily implied (though did not state) they're afraid to buff Gas at all because their number crunching shows a theoretical buffed form of Gas would immediately run away to God tier

Blast is just stuck in an eternal paradox. The weapon itself already causes a "blast" effect when it explodes and deals damage -- so what's left over for the Blast proc to do? They're on attempted answer number three now

Gas I can understand D.E. not wanting to touch it too much. It's an AOE Damage over time that can be nuts if numbers were skewed in the wrong direction. Blast on the other hand, since the update is fresh and people are putting builds together and experimenting in the simulacrum, I'm guessing their waiting to see what the community comes up with and will probably adjust accordingly. I personally think because of how it is now, it's not worth building around on most weapons since how low the damage is. Blast could have been a nice clean up option for explosive weapons if the initially hit didn't kill.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

48 minutes ago, _4shes said:

Gas I can understand D.E. not wanting to touch it too much. It's an AOE Damage over time that can be nuts if numbers were skewed in the wrong direction. Blast on the other hand, since the update is fresh and people are putting builds together and experimenting in the simulacrum, I'm guessing their waiting to see what the community comes up with and will probably adjust accordingly. I personally think because of how it is now, it's not worth building around on most weapons since how low the damage is. Blast could have been a nice clean up option for explosive weapons if the initially hit didn't kill.

Gas is a monster and DE is trying really hard to not piss of "those in the know" by changing it. Personally, I love it on melee, especially with heavy attacks. If that one hit procs, the damage spread is insane!

As for blast, it shines most when you target heavies. Their hp would trigger quite a bit of damage and it looks like it scales with name mods. Still playing with it but, so far,  I like it!

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Gas is a monster and DE is trying really hard to not piss of "those in the know" by changing it. Personally, I love it on melee, especially with heavy attacks. If that one hit procs, the damage spread is insane!

As for blast, it shines most when you target heavies. Their hp would trigger quite a bit of damage and it looks like it scales with name mods. Still playing with it but, so far,  I like it!

I completely, 100% disagree with everything you said, and I believe you have no basis for making those claims at all.

The damage done by Blast is based on your weapon damage, not on the target being heavy or not. And that fictional story about Gas being insane on melee weapons is just fancyful.

Edited June 19 by Traumtulpe

[Merkranire]

2 hours ago, _4shes said:

Eh, they had identity and no one bothered to use them. There's a reason why viral/slash was dominating the meta for a very long time. Also Cold and Magnetic do have more of a pronounced identity. Magnetic can tackle nullifiers, overguard and shields more effectively and Cold can straight up halt enemies and give a crit damage buff. Gas remains unchanged in this update and Blast changes are relatively new so who knows what will become of them, but I'd say some damage types still retain an identity.

Seriously feels like the community got hold of the steering wheel, and they’re terrible game designers if the simplicity they strive for is any indicator.

The main thing I’m hoping for now is that now that DE have reset to a simplified form of damage, they can re-introduce more engaging combat in a more controlled manner, doing things like introducing enemies that throw a wrench into the works and multi-faction missions where we’re facing more than one type of faction and thus need to be more considerate how we build and how to swap between our brought gear.

I like the clarity of the changes, but they excised gameplay experiences in doing so and would like to see those scenarios brought back in a more-understandable way

[_4shes]

11 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Seriously feels like the community got hold of the steering wheel, and they’re terrible game designers if the simplicity they strive for is any indicator.

The main thing I’m hoping for now is that now that DE have reset to a simplified form of damage, they can re-introduce more engaging combat in a more controlled manner, doing things like introducing enemies that throw a wrench into the works and multi-faction missions where we’re facing more than one type of faction and thus need to be more considerate how we build and how to swap between our brought gear.

I like the clarity of the changes, but they excised gameplay experiences in doing so and would like to see those scenarios brought back in a more-understandable way

Multi-Factional missions would be an interesting idea ngl, but an idea like that would have us put a lot of faith in D.E.'s design choices and their ability to avoid creating a rigid meta.

[Traumtulpe]

24 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Seriously feels like the community got hold of the steering wheel, and they’re terrible game designers if the simplicity they strive for is any indicator.

Right, because the "community" told DE to make all factions a uniform mass as far as damage types are concerned. Not.

Edited June 19 by Traumtulpe

[Merkranire]

5 minutes ago, _4shes said:

Multi-Factional missions would be an interesting idea ngl, but an idea like that would have us put a lot of faith in D.E.'s design choices and their ability to avoid creating a rigid meta.

Doesn’t seem too big an ask. Players stick to the meta in order to simplify their build and gameplay considerations and avoid having to deal with the damage type system in the first place, so engaging with the system automatically entails a… non-rigid meta with shifting builds, as opposed to when someone tries to overpower everything and shoehorns themselves into a few options

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Right, because the "community" told DE to make all factions a uniform mass as far as damage types are concerned. Not.

Community wanted simplicity, seems that DE listened and gave them what they wanted. I’m not so thrilled either, but as has been pointed out by others, people just aren’t interested in engaging with the system

[Traumtulpe]

9 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Community wanted simplicity, seems that DE listened and gave them what they wanted

I don't think anyone but some youtubers have said that the damage types were too confusing for poor new baby Tenno. Anyhow, can we all agree that there are some good changes in this update, and some bad ones, and that "equip blue damage against this faction, and red against that one, and don't think to much about it because it's all the same apart from that arbitrary distinction" wasn't a hit?

Edited June 19 by Traumtulpe

[Joylesstuna]

45 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

Seriously feels like the community got hold of the steering wheel, and they’re terrible game designers if the simplicity they strive for is any indicator.

I really have not seen this in the community, ever.

[Merkranire]

14 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I don't think anyone but some youtubers have said that the damage types were too confusing for poor new baby Tenno. Anyhow, can we all agree that there are some good changes in this update, and some bad ones, and that "equip blue damage against this faction, and red against that one, and don't think to much about it because it's all the same apart from that arbitrary distinction" wasn't a hit?

I can agree to that. I’m honestly surprised ( 🤔 though I guess at the same time not surprised?) how the game is still quite enjoyable despite the loss of those extra layers of fighting, but the moment they said they were going per faction, I had a bad feeling

edit: I also found it kind of weird because people were already building for per-faction anyways when they weren’t building for the one faction and squashing all the others with the build?

Edited June 19 by Merkranire

[Berzerkules]

2 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

And that fictional story about Gas being insane on melee weapons is just fancyful.

Gas + electric daggers are really good right now.

They have had their niche for a while but the addition of melee arcanes and tennokai pushed them to another level. 

[Traumtulpe]

8 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Gas + electric daggers are really good right now.

You can remove the Gas and it does the same thing. The only thing Gas even is for in that build is to provide extra "hits" for Amalgam Argonak.

Edited June 19 by Traumtulpe

[Berzerkules]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You can remove the Gas and it does the same thing. The only thing Gas even is for in that build is to provide extra "hits" for Amalgam Argonak.

No it doesn't work the same. No other damage types leave a lingering dot aoe armor strip.