DE should address Jade's Design

[NovaLP]

51 minutes ago, Luigispikachu said:

Anyway, you know what using "snowflake" as an insult really means right?

I didn't use it as an insult but as a fact:

A 'Snowflake' is an overly sensitive person and thats what I mostly see here

5 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Please tell me where in my post I used the word "snowflake". Thanks by advance.

He prob meant me :D

[SirKeksalot]

7 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

1- Time spent reworking Jade's skeleton to accommodate the 20 or so people weirded out by a pregnant warframe to match with an entirely different skin is not spent somewhere else

We don't know exactly how many people it is. How many is enough? Playing with numbers like this is kinda missing the point.

8 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

2- Neutering stuff because it might hurt some fragile person is never a good idea

Anyone's insecurities can be written off as "fragile." That doesn't mean those feelings don't matter. If DE released a frame that was just straight-up named the T-word and came with lots of transphobic references, I would personally be upset by this and want it changed even if all of that was unintentional on the devs' part. Am I fragile? In fact, am I fragile because Jade's design gives me solace in some way, and I should just drop my insecurities? You can't stop yourself from having feelings. It's part of being human.

14 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

3- It would be a severe hit on artists and lore people works. "What you invented/wrote/design suck". Consequence ? Next Warframe(s) will be bland with no unique or inventive design. Just a Warframe with 2 legs, 2 arms, one head, named "Warframe 58" that we'll level up and forget immediately, because taking risks would have proven to be "bad" as per all complainers.

The message sent was never "Jade is bad and DE should feel bad," at most it was "Jade makes me uncomfortable and DE should have been more upfront with this." You're drawing consequences from this that don't even make sense. Hell, I've seen people on this very forum who still wanna play her even in spite of this one thing they don't like. This isn't about "taking risks," this is about one very specific design choice out of MANY that some people dislike. What precedent do you have for this being possible in Warframe?

17 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

4- Pandering to all complainers out there, when they have a very easy solution by using another warframe or simply not caring about this one (considering the belly is not even visible when you play her, rofl), will send a very, very bad signal in general.

The signal that...DE is aware when they make people upset and are willing to make small, optional changes to accommodate their players' sensitivities? They've literally done this before with Saryn, formerly Sarin before someone spoke up on that name.

23 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Just because you don't see counter-arguments don't mean they don't exist.

I didn't say counterpoints don't exist. I asked you what yours were after you cited possible claims that we haven't seen and don't need to entertain until someone actually comes forth with them in earnest. Even then, we're talking about THIS issue on THIS Warframe. Whether or not another complaint has merit doesn't impact whether this one does.

27 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

And despite I agree on the "having options is always good" PoV, that doesn't mean we should have a list of one million options to cope with every single person's psychological problem.

Again, who's asking for that? People are asking for ONE toggle on ONE Warframe, not a million.

21 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Just a kind reminder that all this come from people not able to process a pregnant Warframe, MOST OF THEM QUALIFYING THAT AS A FETISH, just to put it back into situation.

The idea that this is just a kink hasn't cropped up once on this forum, unless I just missed a post about it. In any case, that one argument is moot and doesn't matter. Yes, it's someone's fetish. Yes, someone's gonna clem their grakata to Jade, just like every other Warframe because this is the internet. For all you know, some of those people are involved in this very discussion. Who cares?

[Chewarette]

10 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

The message sent was never "Jade is bad and DE should feel bad," at most it was "Jade makes me uncomfortable and DE should have been more upfront with this." You're drawing consequences from this that don't even make sense. Hell, I've seen people on this very forum who still wanna play her even in spite of this one thing they don't like. This isn't about "taking risks," this is about one very specific design choice out of MANY that some people dislike. What precedent do you have for this being possible in Warframe?

Whatever you said - those posts, and most of the complaints about Jade you seem to have missed in the Feedback or General Discussion, are not far from an insult to DE's design. Yo, your warframe and its quest sucked arse, but even the design sucks, please get rid of the very essence of this Warframe and make her a standard woman, thanks.

Because removing Jade's pregnant aspect is just contrary to all what Jade is. That's like removing Excalibur's blade, Valkyr's claws or Hildryn's shields. That's not cosmetic, that's a murder of the very design.

10 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

The signal that...DE is aware when they make people upset and are willing to make small, optional changes to accommodate their players' sensitivities? They've literally done this before with Saryn, formerly Sarin before someone spoke up on that name.

C'mon, don't call the Sarin gas a "player sensitivity"

10 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

Again, who's asking for that? People are asking for ONE toggle on ONE Warframe, not a million.

That's the principle of a precedent. I guarantee, if they do that, the same day you will get "whatabout" topics. "Now you've fixed Jade, what about you fix [insert random warframe that triggers a couple of people]". It will have the same number of upvotes than this topic, then what ? Should DE fall to all the requests to remodel everything against what DE wanted to do ? That's artists' freedom here.

10 minutes ago, SirKeksalot said:

The idea that this is just a kink hasn't cropped up once on this forum, unless I just missed a post about it. In any case, that one argument is moot and doesn't matter. Yes, it's someone's fetish. Yes, someone's gonna clem their grakata to Jade, just like every other Warframe because this is the internet. For all you know, some of those people are involved in this very discussion. Who cares?

Either you have missed 80% of Jade's feedback posts, or they were removed (for good reasons), but most of them were about fetishes, borderline insulting the creators of the quest of writing their own fanfic about a pregnancy fetish.

Edited Wednesday at 05:09 PM by Chewarette

[PopocraftGD]

32 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Because removing Jade's pregnant aspect is just contrary to all what Jade is.

I haven't been reading all of the feedback but most of us want a toggle, not straight up removal.

Edit: and it's not all what Jade is. Jade was promised to be an angelic support frame, instead we get the pregnant part being the main point.

Edited Wednesday at 05:42 PM by PopocraftGD

[p_silveira]

5 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Please stop being fragile.

Or don't be hypocritical and ask for :

- Slim Grendel, because some people also have problems with overweight matters in real life

- Sleek Hildryn, because some people can't succeed in growing muscles in real life and are getting shamed for it

- Non-Skeleton-showing Xaku, because some cultures can't stand watching skeletons

- Crotch-less warframes for quite an important number of them, that's sexual body shaming duh

- Boobless warframes to support women who underwent mastectomy

- A non-religious-looking Harrow for obvious reasons

- An absolute 0 gore elements for obvious reasons

- Drifter/Operator skins with one or 0 arms, same for legs, heh, for representation purposes you know, it should also apply to all Warframes after all

- A wheelchair skin for Drifter/Operator, are you handicap-phobic ?

- Alopecia, Albinism, skin discolorations, ... all that should be taken into account as well

Maybe when you list all the potential "triggering" problems within Warframe's design, you'll realize nobody gives a single damn for a couple of reasons :

- It's a game

- It's not real life

- It's not you you're playing, but an entirely fictional character

- Grineer & Infestation don't exist in real life

- You have 56 other Warframes choice to pick from if playing Jade puts you in such a triggered state

- Psychologists exist in real life, they can help you with your fragility.

The fact you're asking specifically for Jade just shows you simply have a problem with Pregnancy, but none of the other topics above. So, it's simply a "you" problem, don't talk about accounting for people's weaknesses if you don't account for absolutely ALL of them.

It's clear you're trying to make a point about not catering to individual sensitivities, but your argument is filled with false equivalences and misrepresentations. Here are a few points to consider:

1. False Equivalence: Comparing a pregnant Warframe to other body types like overweight or muscular frames isn't equivalent. Pregnancy carries unique connotations and cultural sensitivities that aren't the same as body size or muscle mass.

2. Straw Man Argument: You're setting up exaggerated scenarios (like wheelchair skins or alopecia) that no one is asking for to undermine a more specific and reasonable request. This distracts from the actual discussion.

3. Dismissive Attitude: Saying "nobody gives a single damn" is not only dismissive but also inaccurate. The fact that there's a discussion about it shows that people do care. Dismissing genuine discomfort doesn't help the conversation.

4. It's a Game: Yes, Warframe is a game, but games are a form of media that people engage with deeply. Just because it's fictional doesn't mean players' feelings about the content are invalid. Media can and does impact people in real ways.

5. Psychologists: Suggesting that people need psychological help for feeling uncomfortable with a game's design choice is not only insulting but also trivializes mental health issues. People have the right to express discomfort without being pathologized.

6. 56 Other Warframes: While it's true there are many other Warframes, that doesn't negate the validity of players' feelings about the new addition. Asking for an optional cosmetic change isn't about fragility; it's about making the game enjoyable for as many players as possible.

Your argument boils down to "just deal with it," which isn't constructive. Game developers often strive to create inclusive and enjoyable experiences for their players. Asking for an optional cosmetic change to address a specific concern isn't unreasonable—it's part of the feedback loop that helps games evolve and improve.

[Thanatos9t]

1 hour ago, PopocraftGD said:

I haven't been reading all of the feedback but most of us want a toggle, not straight up removal.

Edit: and it's not all what Jade is. Jade was promised to be an angelic support frame, instead we get the pregnant part being the main point.

What I haven't seen addressed is the fact that a toggle would only affect those Jade players who chose to do that what happens if a Jade with a bump joins your team?

Also it is likely that hiding the appearance of the bump won't stop her wings cradling the bump, which means' she's always going to look pregnant even without the dome and glowing orb as that's part of how she has been designed.

A similar thing to this is how Gara Prime's armor sits differently on her body compared to the base version, as the Gara Prime's Model has a armored look even when using the regular Gara Skin on the Prime Version the position of the armor does not change dynamically due to the way the mounting points and skeleton has been created for Gara Prime.

Which causes the above issues.

Edited Wednesday at 07:27 PM by Thanatos9t

[WanderingJoe]

4 hours ago, Chewarette said:

It would be a severe hit on artists and lore people works. "What you invented/wrote/design suck". Consequence ? Next Warframe(s) will be bland with no unique or inventive design. Just a Warframe with 2 legs, 2 arms, one head, named "Warframe 58" that we'll level up and forget immediately, because taking risks would have proven to be "bad" as per all complainers.

Yeah guys. leave the corperation alone! 

...dealing with the requests of the community and how to handle it is part of thier job. You know what would be bad for thier job? Making warframes that people find boring. whats a perk of working on a game like this? Trying out your ideas. Some work, some dont. I hardly think theyll give up on being paid to think up cool space ninjas just because the community came back and said "Hey, some of us think this one part isn't too kosher. Can we have a toggle?" 

[WanderingJoe]

3 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Yo, your warframe and its quest sucked arse, but even the design sucks, please get rid of the very essence of this Warframe and make her a standard woman, thanks.

Said no one here ever. Most if not all of us were fine with the quest, its having to have her remain pregnant afterwards that we take issue. And before anyone goes on about the appearance not being pregnant again for the thirtieth time, this both is and isn't relevant. Isn't relevant because we're talking about the opinions of people in the real world and is relevant because Ordis tells us this is and isn't (eternalism strikes again) the jade from the questline. Lore doesnt usually have an affect on fashionframe.

Edited Wednesday at 08:45 PM by WanderingJoe

[WanderingJoe]

1 hour ago, Thanatos9t said:

what happens if a Jade with a bump joins your team?

I mentioned earlier that one of my friends has personal reasons to not want to play with a jade. I was told just to play friends only. In a friends only game, we'd be able to use jade without anyone having the bump out of respect for his comfort. thank you for coming to my ted talk.

And I know I made three posts. Anyone who tells me that I need to think more before I make multiple posts one after another... yeah, you're probably right! I didnt properly read all the posts before making my response (I read each properly, just not all of them before posting)

[Luigispikachu]

honestly, and I don't make this statement lightly, we should just add the bad faith trolls to our "ignore" lists so that we can only focus on people willing to talk reasonably with us. like if you only say "dur yur a snowflake" or the like, you aren't willing to understand from our perspective. and that means you don't want to have an actual discussion.

 

it also has them leave the threads bored from lack of interaction so they can bother someone else and they can take their petty gaslighting and guilt-tripping methods with them

 

you don't have to, but I don't have the patience to deal with people who dismiss my perspective outright, I have had those experiences too much in my life to tolerate the intolerant

[Circle_of_Psi]

21 hours ago, Thanatos9t said:

What I haven't seen addressed is the fact that a toggle would only affect those Jade players who chose to do that what happens if a Jade with a bump joins your team?

That is an interesting point, but I'd assume that the skin would work via the Player's toggle, similar to a filter in a chat. I could see swear words but you cannot, sorta thing?

 

Would that even work in WF?

[WanderingJoe]

No, that's not how auxilaries or skins work. You can't have someone with bug phobias turn off Rhino's deluxe skin or even just the wings. Essentially all were asking for is a tool so we can manage it ourselves.

[Black_Cat_Jinx]

I agree. DE should absolutely respond. By telling all the people who don't like that she's pregnant to grow the F up and that if you don't like the frame nobody is making you play her. 

She's fine how she is, design wise, hell I think they should lean heavier into it.  I think it is an incredible point, that pregnant does not mean fragile. or weak. 

[WanderingJoe]

It's interesting how few of the people who are against the toggle are able make posts without disparaging comments. I'll leave it to the reader to decide what that could mean.

Edited Friday at 03:39 AM by WanderingJoe
Sentence structure

[Zalgo]

7 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

It's interesting how few of the people who are against the toggle make posts without disparaging comments. I'll leave it to the reader to decide what that could mean.

Yeah for some reason people wanting an option that doesn't affect them sends them into a frothing rage.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Am 26.6.2024 um 14:40 schrieb Chewarette:

Please stop being fragile.

Or don't be hypocritical and ask for :

- Slim Grendel, because some people also have problems with overweight matters in real life

- Sleek Hildryn, because some people can't succeed in growing muscles in real life and are getting shamed for it

- Non-Skeleton-showing Xaku, because some cultures can't stand watching skeletons

- Crotch-less warframes for quite an important number of them, that's sexual body shaming duh

- Boobless warframes to support women who underwent mastectomy

- A non-religious-looking Harrow for obvious reasons

- An absolute 0 gore elements for obvious reasons

- Drifter/Operator skins with one or 0 arms, same for legs, heh, for representation purposes you know, it should also apply to all Warframes after all

- A wheelchair skin for Drifter/Operator, are you handicap-phobic ?

- Alopecia, Albinism, skin discolorations, ... all that should be taken into account as well

Maybe when you list all the potential "triggering" problems within Warframe's design, you'll realize nobody gives a single damn for a couple of reasons :

- It's a game

- It's not real life

- It's not you you're playing, but an entirely fictional character

- Grineer & Infestation don't exist in real life

- You have 56 other Warframes choice to pick from if playing Jade puts you in such a triggered state

- Psychologists exist in real life, they can help you with your fragility.

The fact you're asking specifically for Jade just shows you simply have a problem with Pregnancy, but none of the other topics above. So, it's simply a "you" problem, don't talk about accounting for people's weaknesses if you don't account for absolutely ALL of them.

Pretty much. And DE thinks so too considering they read the question on stream and moved on without giving a yes or no. It's not that deep for them and it's not that deep for the majority of players.

It's time to move on.

Get help people. DE is not responsible for your fears/traumas/whatever, you agreed to it signing up accepting the terms of service. 

[Harutomata]

7 hours ago, Zalgo said:

Yeah for some reason people wanting an option that doesn't affect them sends them into a frothing rage.

Lots of "if something isn't a problem for me personally then the problem doesn't exist" "arguments", usually backed up with whataboutism and strawman arguments.

On 2024-06-26 at 8:28 PM, p_silveira said:

It's clear you're trying to make a point about not catering to individual sensitivities, but your argument is filled with false equivalences and misrepresentations. Here are a few points to consider:

1. False Equivalence: Comparing a pregnant Warframe to other body types like overweight or muscular frames isn't equivalent. Pregnancy carries unique connotations and cultural sensitivities that aren't the same as body size or muscle mass.

2. Straw Man Argument: You're setting up exaggerated scenarios (like wheelchair skins or alopecia) that no one is asking for to undermine a more specific and reasonable request. This distracts from the actual discussion.

3. Dismissive Attitude: Saying "nobody gives a single damn" is not only dismissive but also inaccurate. The fact that there's a discussion about it shows that people do care. Dismissing genuine discomfort doesn't help the conversation.

4. It's a Game: Yes, Warframe is a game, but games are a form of media that people engage with deeply. Just because it's fictional doesn't mean players' feelings about the content are invalid. Media can and does impact people in real ways.

5. Psychologists: Suggesting that people need psychological help for feeling uncomfortable with a game's design choice is not only insulting but also trivializes mental health issues. People have the right to express discomfort without being pathologized.

6. 56 Other Warframes: While it's true there are many other Warframes, that doesn't negate the validity of players' feelings about the new addition. Asking for an optional cosmetic change isn't about fragility; it's about making the game enjoyable for as many players as possible.

Your argument boils down to "just deal with it," which isn't constructive. Game developers often strive to create inclusive and enjoyable experiences for their players. Asking for an optional cosmetic change to address a specific concern isn't unreasonable—it's part of the feedback loop that helps games evolve and improve.

Well said.

[Cerikus]

Videogames are an artform.

It's the artist who has the creative vision and it's the artist who wants to show something.

I recommend everyone to watch this movie (or at least this clip), which I suspect might've been an inspiration for the quest:

Jade's story and her design is an artistic statement. It's suppose to generate emotional response, it's suppose to make you think and question everything. We humans should be challanged with problematic ideas and concepts. The whole modern approach of hiding from uncomfortable realities of this world is what makes us so weak and pathetic. Stop asking the artists to restrict their work. Not liking what the art displays, doesn't mean the artist should not display it.

Jade was pregnant when she was violated by Ballas and transformed into Warframe. You shouldn't just erase that, you shouldn't forget that. There is no "non-pregnant Jade". The whole point of Jade is to show the brutality of Orokin, of Ballas. She should stay that way to remind you what some people are capable of.

Yes, it's a fictional story, but as an artform it reflects life. Everyday people needlessly die all over the world for stupid reasons and it's the art that can help us remember that and it can, maybe, help us grow.

I am not against people asking for what they want, but I just wanted to express my opinion, which is: It would be a mistake and it would render the meaning of Jade's story null and void. It would change it into something we can just toggle off, remove, forget. Let's not do that. Please.

Edited Friday at 11:45 AM by Cerikus

[_Anise_]

On 2024-06-26 at 5:59 PM, SirKeksalot said:

We don't know exactly how many people it is. How many is enough? Playing with numbers like this is kinda missing the point.

I brought up the same point you were discussing, but in a different thread. Regardless of the team size, resources need to be divided to accommodate it.

For instance, think of a real-world scenario where resources are split, It could be the between releasing 5 skins in a year or releasing 3 skins along with 1 jade skin to cater to both model variations. This resource allocation would be necessary each time a jade skin is created.

  

On 2024-06-26 at 1:40 PM, Chewarette said:

Please stop being fragile.

It's refreshing to find someone with a perspective that I can align with. Those who feel uncomfortable with Jade have the straightforward option of not playing as Jade; it's as simple as that. Not every Warframe is designed to appeal to every individual, and players can choose to either go solo or exit a game upon encountering a Jade frame (a practice I personally follow when faced with a Limbo, as I prefer a more engaging gameplay experience).

I do wish there had been a second frame released alongside Jade, or perhaps the option to collect/play as Stalker, providing players with alternative choices rather than solely expressing discontent over not wanting to engage with a "pregnant" Warframe.

55 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Videogames are an artform.

I made this point in the thread too

"the design choices in Warframe, including various themes and visuals, are a direct reflection of the artistic vision of the game developers. While individual preferences may vary, I believe it important to respect the creative freedom and expression of the designers as they bring their unique ideas to life within the game. "

  

55 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

am not against people asking

It's always fine to inquire, and I'm willing to share my thoughts when they do. However, it's common for individuals to have already formed their opinions and may not be open to listening. Additionally, I don't foresee DE giving in, similar to their decisions not to provide gender options for warframes or release a petite Hildryn. Personally, I believe yielding to this pressure could potentially open the floodgates to a myriad of similar aesthetic complaints.

Edited Friday at 12:39 PM by _Anise_

[_Anise_]

On 2024-06-21 at 6:39 AM, jeandme said:

Pregnancy is part of life, censoring it in a video game won't change the experience that those with trauma have to endure.

These conversations are also not productive at all - Jade has a very underwhelming gameplay design that should be addressed first. Her looks won't matter when no one is even interested in playing with her.

I upvoted your comment, and while I respect your opinion, I personally find her playstyle to be quite engaging. There are numerous nuances to consider, such as strategically juggling her buffs for snapshotting power, tactically placing her 1 and detonating it in conjunction with her 4, the logical reasoning behind her armor strip ability which also enables her to revive ground companions or teammates, her healing ability makes her liked among some tanky characters. In my view, her 4 ability is reminiscent of Mesa's 4, but with a more interactive approach that allows for the utilization of her other skills without the assistance of the aimbot.

Edited Friday at 03:32 PM by _Anise_

[Alpha_Tango]

Even if a toggle or a version of Jade that is more pleasing to the eyes of others materializes, it will never erase the fact that those changes revolved around a symbolic pregnancy story. The effort behind it will definitely be shallow and but skin deep.

By thoroughly playing her pixelized character, I manage to appreciate how her meticulous design demonstrates her strong maternal persona through her aptly named abilities. Her WF is a smorgasbord of amazing synergies that totally eclipses her "uncomfortable belly" by a huge margin with what she brings to the table. It's what makes her fictional videogame character whole.

I do understand those who think otherwise. Just don't look at her, cycle through her abilities and tips tab and call it a day. At least make an effort to understand what makes this unique playable character tick. "Don't judge the book by it's cover"  might be too cliche to make a point, but I am still going to use it. Go play people, she is a real bad @$$ to experience laying down judgements with.

Edited Friday at 01:29 PM by Alpha_Tango

[Luigispikachu]

more people dismissing the whole issue because "my design integrity". I've had about enough of discussing these issues with closed minded individuals. 

 

this is a game, not a movie. yes, both are art. but they are different enough that it's more than just "but the symbolism!" in the ring with this issue.

 

look, if your symbolism gets in the way of people enjoying a part of the game, then you didn't make a game, you made an interactable movie scene.

Edited Friday at 03:30 PM by Luigispikachu
adding an extra point

[_Anise_]

39 minutes ago, Luigispikachu said:

more people dismissing the whole issue because "my design integrity". I've had about enough of discussing these issues with closed minded individuals. 

so you're going to make the assumption that people are closed minded and use that assumption dismiss their arguments ..., I feel like what you want is an echo chamber which might be the norm for social media but not a discussion forum? I am willing to listen but I haven't heard any compelling arguments that don't boil down to "I don't like how it looks" or "I makes me/other feel comfortable"

47 minutes ago, Luigispikachu said:

this is a game, not a movie. yes, both are art. but they are different enough that it's more than just "but the symbolism!" in the ring with this issue.

 

look, if your symbolism gets in the way of people enjoying a part of the game, then you didn't make a game, you made an interactable movie scene.

I don't really get what you are trying to say here, this isn't a team deathmatch game like COD or fortnite, where ironman and characters from the boys show up, this is a narrative driven game like a movie with shooty bits in between, artistic integrity applies especially since the visuals and the story are intertwined.

if they add spiderman as a warframe maybe I would agree. (khora does not count!)

[WanderingJoe]

1 hour ago, _Anise_ said:

I am willing to listen but I haven't heard any compelling arguments that don't boil down to "I don't like how it looks" or "I makes me/other feel comfortable"

Well... Given that that's entirely what these discussion threads are about... I'd say it's understandable that that's what you're running into. If it's about a "need" then there isn't one, any more than people "need" jade to look pregnant in the first place. We are talking about a videogame, superfluous entertainment to begin with. Noone playing this game "needs" it. 

This is pretty much just people telling DE "hey, I want this, it would improve my gameplay experience." It's just kind of part of being a nerd, putting way too much time and effort into the things we enjoy. We're discussing it now, at the begining of it happening, becaus3 it is litterally the best time to discuss it. There's been no talk of "Well why didn't you mention it earlier if it bothered you so much." Warframe isn't my IP, bone of the people in this thread have any control over it but thank all that is intelligent that DE is letting us have the opportunity to put forth our opinion forward as a subset of the community. 

[SirKeksalot]

1 minute ago, WanderingJoe said:

Well... Given that that's entirely what these discussion threads are about... I'd say it's understandable that that's what you're running into. If it's about a "need" then there isn't one, any more than people "need" jade to look pregnant in the first place. We are talking about a videogame, superfluous entertainment to begin with. Noone playing this game "needs" it. 

This is pretty much just people telling DE "hey, I want this, it would improve my gameplay experience." It's just kind of part of being a nerd, putting way too much time and effort into the things we enjoy. We're discussing it now, at the begining of it happening, becaus3 it is litterally the best time to discuss it. There's been no talk of "Well why didn't you mention it earlier if it bothered you so much." Warframe isn't my IP, bone of the people in this thread have any control over it but thank all that is intelligent that DE is letting us have the opportunity to put forth our opinion forward as a subset of the community. 

This. There is no such thing as objective "need," that's just a way we categorize value. I didn't know before now that having a pregnant Warframe would do so much for my mental health by letting me express myself this way. I didn't even think that was on the table. If I did, and if I thought it was a reasonable thing to ask for, I might have spoken up and said that this could do me a lot of good and I'd like the option to have this. But I woulda been laughed out of the playerbase if I had because that was--and still is--a completely insane idea. So of course, you're only seeing threads about the topic now that we know this is a thing that can happen.

And yeah, I guess maybe I didn't "need" a pregnant Warframe. I also didn't "need" to transition. I could very well have silenced my inner turmoil and carried on with my life, and never worked past my sense of longing, and never found a way to express myself that makes me happy, and I could have felt ugly and weird for however long it took until I couldn't take it anymore. The Earth would just keep turning if that happened, the world would barely notice, and no objective "need" would go unmet. But that doesn't factor into my thought process because I don't care whether I "need" something in that way. Doing that is a prerequisite for continuing to live and being healthy, and I want to do that, so I got off my ass and came out to my parents and got on the meds. And, now having Jade after someone very generously gifted me her, I have begun to see clearly. I feel confident. I feel like I can see myself in a game in a way I couldn't before, and that's motivated me to claw my way out of my dark hole faster and harder than before. I didn't "need" that, no...but it sure feels like I did.

Knowing all of this, I can also turn that around and understand how Jade can have the same effect in reverse. We, as a rule, place a lot of emotional stock in birth and child-rearing. That's so much of why I have the dysphoria I do over pregnancy. And that stock can backfire when bad experiences or subjective concerns fire off in our minds without our consent when we see something related to it. That's how our brains work. So, knowing damn well that a pregnant Warframe can have a huge impact on someone's well-being (be it good or bad), I cannot see why it makes sense to write these concerns off on the cynical basis of "needs." You don't "need" to play a game...but it sure helps to have a hobby you love when you're at your lowest point.