Reactant Pickups Should Be Squad Wide

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

If people aren't doing it "the right way" and it's creating inefficiency, why not just change it so they can't do it the "incorrect" way? People are weirdly defending against a QoL buff. 

You are a genius. Let's reward incorrect play. A for Effort.

Edited September 5 by Zakkhar

[vixenpixel]

53 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

You are a genius. Let's reward incorrect play. A for Effort.

Skipped my reasoning around it to claim some sarcasm points. I see where this thread's heading...

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

49 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

You are a genius. Let's reward incorrect play. A for Effort.

Not at all what we'd be doing. We'd be changing the game so there isn't an "incorrect" way to play the mission. If you actually cared about efficiency, you'd be all for that, but it appears that isn't the case. You seem to care about people having to play the way you think they should have to play. 

You are not the decoder of what is correct or incorrect. And the game shouldn't punish you for keeping the void cascade from over flowing by not letting you open your relic bc you had to choose between reactant or getting the needed exolizers for the mission while everyone else gets reactant.

[vixenpixel]

4 hours ago, dwqrf said:

The Void Corrupted needs a overhaul to be more Voidy (Zariman-like) than just Orokined with mind control (too much like Narmer) ; but as much as I like this concept, I'm scared of the twisted result from the minds of DE's artists, as featured in the haunted Zariman. Thrax variations of Corpus and Infested aren't a great sight in my mind 😱

Edit : That would definitely separate Orokin Corrupted and Void Corrupted, both as factions and as skins.

Honestly the whole idea those orokin towers are mind-controlling and turning enemy into new faction that happens to be same faction as those showing in normal missions just doesn't make any sense. What happens if we run a fissure in the void... Are they void corrupted orokin corrupted enemies?

[vixenpixel]

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

The Void Corrupted needs a overhaul to be more Voidy (Zariman-like) than just Orokined with mind control (too much like Narmer) ; but as much as I like this concept, I'm scared of the twisted result from the minds of DE's artists, as featured in the haunted Zariman. Thrax variations of Corpus and Infested aren't a great sight in my mind 😱

Edit : That would definitely separate Orokin Corrupted and Void Corrupted, both as factions and as skins.

I like that idea. But im still confused about the science behind "orokin tower mind-control corruption". It's just abit outside the box. 

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, vixenpixel a dit :

I like that idea. But im still confused about the science behind "orokin tower mind-control corruption". It's just abit outside the box. 

The Corrupted faction (now Orokin) are just poor regular Grineer/Corpus/Infested that stepped onto Void Tower and got mind controlled by its defense systems, so they have the golden thingy on their head. It's pre-Narmer Orokin tech, and Narmer veils are just a pale copy of it ; nothing surprising as it's coming from Ballas, an old Orokin copying stuff right and left.

Void corruption, which can target any enemies can also target the Orokin (ex-Corrupted faction). I think we just need to get the habit of changing the words about it.

As as of recent damage/resistance rework, (ex)Corrupted are now exclusively called Orokin, in game and in codex, letting me think Corrupted will just always mean Void touched now.

[Quest]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

If people aren't doing it "the right way" and it's creating inefficiency, why not just change it so they can't do it the "incorrect" way? People are weirdly defending against a QoL buff. 

Yep

[vixenpixel]

5 hours ago, dwqrf said:

The Corrupted faction (now Orokin) are just poor regular Grineer/Corpus/Infested that stepped onto Void Tower and got mind controlled by its defense systems, so they have the golden thingy on their head. It's pre-Narmer Orokin tech, and Narmer veils are just a pale copy of it ; nothing surprising as it's coming from Ballas, an old Orokin copying stuff right and left.

Void corruption, which can target any enemies can also target the Orokin (ex-Corrupted faction). I think we just need to get the habit of changing the words about it.

As as of recent damage/resistance rework, (ex)Corrupted are now exclusively called Orokin, in game and in codex, letting me think Corrupted will just always mean Void touched now.

So are they corrupted because they are in the void but also mind-controlled by the tower's defenses? I assume that's the case. 

[ChaoticOrderly]

It literally cant be squad-wide, that risks afk/leeching. The only reason Railjack has it because Railjack itself is a very involved gamemode where a player is always doing something and the tileset is massive with other tilesets in the tileset. Only thing you can hope for is more enemies and more fissures happening often or just having enemies in the mission just be the corrupted faction with no fissure animation needed.

[dwqrf]

il y a 46 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

So are they corrupted because they are in the void but also mind-controlled by the tower's defenses? I assume that's the case. 

So I like to adress my thought here :

There is in game a start chart place called the Void. It is, indeed, pocket of Void where Orokins hid their treasured Orokin Towers. Inside the Orokin Towers, which are not corrupted by the Void around them, are Orokinly-Corrupted(Veiled) enemies that were regular star chart factions that got there and got mind-controlled by the Orokin defenses. Veiled enemies are still called Corrupted in mission, wrongfully, even though they belong to the Orokin faction in game and feature golden details.

Meanwhile, the Void, as an entity, only come to the Origin system through Fissures, Tennos, The Man In The Wall, and the Zariman and its monsters. The Void corrupt anything that it come in contact with, but that doesn't make the Void-Corrupted enemies actually Orokinly-Corrupted(Veiled) (Even thought it's the same skin, but it shouldn't). Because as we can see, we can have Corrupted-Corrupted (...) which are actually Void-Corrupted-Veiled enemies of the original Orokin faction but Void touched.

Void-Corrupted enemies should either be their own faction (Void) or retain their original faction modifiers, have different skins which should be Void-Infused of original faction skin and not Orokinly-Veiled skin.

The only "Void-Corrupted but not Orokinly-Veiled" enemy we can face in Orokin Tower is Corrupted Vor, to my knowledge.

I think we should avoid the confusion. Get it ?

Does that make any sense ?

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

14 hours ago, ChaoticOrderly said:

It literally cant be squad-wide, that risks afk/leeching. The only reason Railjack has it because Railjack itself is a very involved gamemode where a player is always doing something and the tileset is massive with other tilesets in the tileset. Only thing you can hope for is more enemies and more fissures happening often or just having enemies in the mission just be the corrupted faction with no fissure animation needed.

People already afk leech by afking until last second to grab reactant and that's rather rare in void fissure missions. Those people who afk leech after this change are the same people doing it now. Let's not use a minority to stop the majority from enjoying QoL. Mind you I've suggested prior those with the afk mode on could not benefit from squad wide pick ups. 

 

Instead of saying no, please add ways it could work to address afkers

Edited September 6 by (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1

[Tsukinoki]

14 hours ago, ChaoticOrderly said:

The only reason Railjack has it because Railjack itself is a very involved gamemode where a player is always doing something and the tileset is massive with other tilesets in the tileset.

The real reason?
Say you get onto a crew ship, get a bunch of reactant drops....and then blow up the crewship like the objective states.
What happens to the reactant?  Oh yeah, they get lost forever....

Now imagine that without reactant being shared with the squad.

They do it in railjack to prevent griefing (both purposeful and accidental).

They don't do it in other missions to prevent AFK leeching.

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Those people who afk leech after this change are the same people doing it now.

Except you are making it massively easier to leech with this change.

Now you don't even need to worry about coming back every so often to collect reactant.  It's already done for you and leeching is now even easier than it was before!

This will increase the number of leechers quite a bit because it will be so much easier to do.

[(PSN)Rainbow_Neos1]

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

The real reason?
Say you get onto a crew ship, get a bunch of reactant drops....and then blow up the crewship like the objective states.
What happens to the reactant?  Oh yeah, they get lost forever....

Now imagine that without reactant being shared with the squad.

They do it in railjack to prevent griefing (both purposeful and accidental).

They don't do it in other missions to prevent AFK leeching.

Except you are making it massively easier to leech with this change.

Now you don't even need to worry about coming back every so often to collect reactant.  It's already done for you and leeching is now even easier than it was before!

This will increase the number of leechers quite a bit because it will be so much easier to do.

But it'll benefit normal players even more. Come up with a way for normal players to benefit while also preventing leeches from benefiting since you care so much about that one guy you probably don't need in your mission not helping. 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

2 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

Those people who afk leech after this change are the same people doing it now.

Except you are making it massively easier to leech with this change.

Now you don't even need to worry about coming back every so often to collect reactant.  It's already done for you and leeching is now even easier than it was before!

This will increase the number of leechers quite a bit because it will be so much easier to do.

When it comes to void relics. Why do you care? Like, unless you are failing, person giving you free choice and potential +5 void traces is contribution.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

When it comes to void relics. Why do you care? Like, unless you are failing, person giving you free choice and potential +5 void traces is contribution.

I can hear the frustration of a person who has wasted a lot of time cracking relics solo in those words. :P

[vFlitz]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

When it comes to void relics. Why do you care? Like, unless you are failing, person giving you free choice and potential +5 void traces is contribution.

Basically this. People don't run public void fissures to have other people contribute anything via gameplay, they do it for more reward options.

These days in non-endless fissures it's always one person doing all the work anyway, because many people want to get it over with asap, the fastest one ends up having all the kills while the others 'leech' whether they like it or not.

Ironically the only ones with any reason to fear this change are the people who want to just stand still doing nothing, on the off chance they'd run into a full squad of their ilk and everyone would waste 2 minutes waiting on spawn before somebody decides to move.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

4 hours ago, quxier said:

When it comes to void relics. Why do you care? Like, unless you are failing, person giving you free choice and potential +5 void traces is contribution.

I can hear the frustration of a person who has wasted a lot of time cracking relics solo in those words. :P

Hahaha. I've used to do it solo (bad pc & stuff). Solo void relics are horrible. I hardly care if I or other carry others, especially for quick missions like capture.

[Tiltskillet]

3 hours ago, vFlitz said:

Ironically the only ones with any reason to fear this change are the people who want to just stand still doing nothing,

Meh.  I'm not the kind of player you describe.   It may not be rational, but running into even more squads with a person or two or three doing nothing would make me want to run public even less than I do. 

This is just conjecture and may reflect my own biases, but I suspect DE still wants to encourage actual public co-op, and discourage 1 person playing solo but with three extra relic slots that happen to have account names. 

Why?  My guess is that they've decided that overall the former results in more players sticking with the game for longer, and/or more likely to make purchases.  Public relic sharing would overall be  a small part of the strategy, but if I'm correct they wouldn't want to get people into the habit anywhere.

 

Edited September 6 by Tiltskillet

[vixenpixel]

22 hours ago, dwqrf said:

So I like to adress my thought here :

There is in game a start chart place called the Void. It is, indeed, pocket of Void where Orokins hid their treasured Orokin Towers. Inside the Orokin Towers, which are not corrupted by the Void around them, are Orokinly-Corrupted(Veiled) enemies that were regular star chart factions that got there and got mind-controlled by the Orokin defenses. Veiled enemies are still called Corrupted in mission, wrongfully, even though they belong to the Orokin faction in game and feature golden details.

Meanwhile, the Void, as an entity, only come to the Origin system through Fissures, Tennos, The Man In The Wall, and the Zariman and its monsters. The Void corrupt anything that it come in contact with, but that doesn't make the Void-Corrupted enemies actually Orokinly-Corrupted(Veiled) (Even thought it's the same skin, but it shouldn't). Because as we can see, we can have Corrupted-Corrupted (...) which are actually Void-Corrupted-Veiled enemies of the original Orokin faction but Void touched.

Void-Corrupted enemies should either be their own faction (Void) or retain their original faction modifiers, have different skins which should be Void-Infused of original faction skin and not Orokinly-Veiled skin.

The only "Void-Corrupted but not Orokinly-Veiled" enemy we can face in Orokin Tower is Corrupted Vor, to my knowledge.

I think we should avoid the confusion. Get it ?

Does that make any sense ?

This made less sense than probably anything ive ever read in my life.

[dwqrf]

il y a 48 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

This made less sense than probably anything ive ever read in my life.

😥

Corrupted enemies (Orokin Faction we can find in Orokin Tower, in the place called Void in the star chart) have the same model as Void touched enemies (From fissures) ; but they shouldn't.
The only difference is the dynamic shining on Void touched enemies using regular Corrupted skins because it's a long due overhaul.

They are not corrupted by the same thing.

The Corrupted (Orokins) are corrupted by the Orokin Tower mind control.
The Corrupted (Fissures) are corrupted by the Void.

 

If they are in game the same enemies, it's because both the Void (Orokin place) and the Fissures (Void missions) were supposed to give us great challenge by letting players face a mix of all factions. But they aren't the same enemies, lore wise. Hence the existing Corrupted-Corrupted.

-

Or you know, you could just simply make all Corrupted in the game Void touched enemies instead of Orokins.

But then, why do we need the Orokin Tower mind control in the lore and golden veiled models in game ?

Edited September 6 by dwqrf

[vixenpixel]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

😥

Corrupted enemies (Orokin Faction we can find in Orokin Tower, in the place called Void in the star chart) have the same model as Void touched enemies (From fissures) ; but they shouldn't.
The only difference is the dynamic shining on Void touched enemies using regular Corrupted skins because it's a long due overhaul.

They are not corrupted by the same thing.

The Corrupted (Orokins) are corrupted by the Orokin Tower mind control.
The Corrupted (Fissures) are corrupted by the Void.

 

If they are in game the same enemies, it's because both the Void (Orokin place) and the Fissures (Void missions) were supposed to give us great challenge by letting players face a mix of all factions. But they aren't the same enemies, lore wise. Hence the existing Corrupted-Corrupted.

-

Or you know, you could just simply make all Corrupted in the game Void touched enemies instead of Orokins.

But then, why do we need the Orokin Tower mind control in the lore and golden veiled models in game ?

Are you certain the enemies we encounter in those orokin towers aren't corrupted by the void but mind-controlled nontheless by the towers? That would make alot more sense

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

Are you certain the enemies we encounter in those orokin towers aren't corrupted by the void but mind-controlled nontheless by the towers? That would make alot more sense

Well, I struggle to find reasons why void fissures transform enemies into veiled orokin enemies ;

Once upon a time in Warframe, we had to go to Orokin Towers in the Void to crack relics.
Design-wise, fighting Orokinly-Corrupted enemies was making us face the three faction at once, making it a dangerous combinaison with Ancient, Nullifier, and Bombards.

Since that changed, we now have to go on Fissures missions on random planets to open relics. They introduced the effect of Void storm corrupting enemies.
Design-wise, going to random planets allowed us to get diverses ressources ; but to keep it a great challenge, we still face there the Corrupted which are a mix of all three factions.

But having Void fissure sending Orokin neural implants onto regular Grineer to transform them into golden shining monsters does not make any sense.

Both are a form of corruption, but they don't happen in the same way and in the same place, and for the same reasons.
Orokin corrupt anyone stepping in their towers because that's an advanced defense mecanism from the Neural Sentry.
Void corrupt things when a fissure break space and time and infuse madness into living lifeforms, probaly from Wally if not the Zariman accident.

They just reused the same skins and made us face the same triple-faction. It wasn't lazy, it was just the easiest approach.

I cannot find any lore anywhere telling me otherwise. Except the only Corrupted which isn't subject to the Orokin mind control, but rather corrupted by the Void : Corrupted Vor ; but maybe that's because he used a Void Key to revive himself.

But since the last update, changing Corrupted from the Void Towers as a Orokin faction makes me believe they should as well change their in game name to Orokin, and to change the models and names of the Void touched in fissures. But that's a lot of work.

[vixenpixel]

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Well, I struggle to find reasons why void fissures transform enemies into veiled orokin enemies ;

Once upon a time in Warframe, we had to go to Orokin Towers in the Void to crack relics.
Design-wise, fighting Orokinly-Corrupted enemies was making us face the three faction at once, making it a dangerous combinaison with Ancient, Nullifier, and Bombards.

Since that changed, we now have to go on Fissures missions on random planets to open relics. They introduced the effect of Void storm corrupting enemies.
Design-wise, going to random planets allowed us to get diverses ressources ; but to keep it a great challenge, we still face there the Corrupted which are a mix of all three factions.

But having Void fissure sending Orokin neural implants onto regular Grineer to transform them into golden shining monsters does not make any sense.

Both are a form of corruption, but they don't happen in the same way and in the same place, and for the same reasons.
Orokin corrupt anyone stepping in their towers because that's an advanced defense mecanism from the Neural Sentry.
Void corrupt things when a fissure break space and time and infuse madness into living lifeforms, probaly from Wally if not the Zariman accident.

They just reused the same skins and made us face the same triple-faction. It wasn't lazy, it was just the easiest approach.

I cannot find any lore anywhere telling me otherwise. Except the only Corrupted which isn't subject to the Orokin mind control, but rather corrupted by the Void : Corrupted Vor ; but maybe that's because he used a Void Key to revive himself.

But since the last update, changing Corrupted from the Void Towers as a Orokin faction makes me believe they should as well change their in game name to Orokin, and to change the models and names of the Void touched in fissures. But that's a lot of work.

The only reason they changed smite corrupted to smite orokin is to not make it weird when some bosses randomly belong to that faction, Im sure. 

The orokin tower corruption effect is just an old lore thing they haven't properly phased out yet, is my guess. The proper interpretation would be that the golden hue is from void corruption but in those orokin towers the enemies are mind controlled to serve as defenses for the towers.

The disconnect clearly happened when the old explanation could no longer account for changes that were implemented in order to improve gameplay. So it's illogical and makes no sense right now. They should probably look into retconning some of that when they get around to it

Edit: i could be wrong. But that's what i think would make sense

Edited September 6 by vixenpixel

[Famecans]

This mechanic only exists because of defense missions that can be significantly accelerated by nuclear warframes.

I've participated in several missions where the entire squad can't complete reactants, this is a connection failure that penalizes all the team's playing time, it's like traveling a long 5-minute path and reaching the end and not receiving any reward.

Possible solution options are:

• 1st Make all defense missions time-based with shared reactants collection (This is horrible, unfortunately I hate non-acceleratable missions)
• 2nd Add a new way to collect reactants, the map spawns random special fissures scattered around the map, this should be indicated on the radar and the player must touch it.
• 3rd Make the amount of reactants affect the chance of the relic dropping. In this case the player can open any relic with Zero reactants, however this will affect the reward luck, the relic will be locked to gaining only common rewards.

 

Edited September 6 by Famecans

[dwqrf]

il y a 27 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

The only reason they changed smite corrupted to smite orokin is to not make it weird when some bosses randomly belong to that faction, Im sure.

What I mean is that now, hovering above the Void give us the Orokin tag faction, hence the modification of smite mods (and resistances/weakness changes). But in Void missions, aiming at enemies still have the Corrupted names. They should be Orokin-Infested, Orokin-Grineer and Orokin-Corpus instead.

Meanwhile, in Fissure missions, enemies transform into Corrupted, righfully so, as they are Corrupted by the Void ; like Vor.
 

il y a 27 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

The orokin tower corruption effect is just an old lore thing they haven't properly phased out yet, is my guess. The proper interpretation would be that the golden hue is from void corruption but in those orokin towers the enemies are mind controlled to serve as defenses for the towers.

I do not think Orokin ever controlled the Void that much to use it as a mind control tool. They used it to hide stuff in another dimension, as the Orokin Towers, Lua, and Prime items obtained using Void Relics which are just keys to reach into that Void dimension and to get something out of it, needing Void power from harvested Fissures to work ; but they are Orokin made.

They never mastered the Void ; one of their best experiment was the Heart of Deimos, to allow Void energy to be somewhat controlled in Origin system, and Tenno use that for Transference. The rest of the vague experiment done by the Orokins... is yet to revealed with Albrecht's story arc, the only one that really studied it.

But Orokin mind control is simple technology, and Ballas used it again for Narmers ; and we have not one single element showing that Ballas used or mastered the Void in any ways.

I think.