Nullifier's Bubble Isn't Affected By Damage, And Here's Proof

[Althran]

Nullifier shields are effected by RoF and the power behind those shots hitting it can make it shrink more than a weaker shot.. This seem working as intended. DE never said nullifiers had HP totals, only that damage mattered some now.

 

yeah, but they DID say that it would be affected by damage.

 

Quote, from DE_Adam on Update 15.7:

 

• Corpus Nullifier shields will now decrease in size depending on incoming damage.

Clearly, that isn't the case.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Althran

[GeoffFromAccounting]

DE should not balance to cater towards un-optomized builds. You have your freedom to loadout with whatever you want on intermediate missions, but end-game content needs to be restricted to high-tier builds.

 

It only makes sense to force squads to adapt their builds for end game enemies, it'd be silly to allow any random loadout to succeed in T4.

 

adaptation =/= making only a single loadout viable.

 

I shouldn't HAVE to use *Rhino P, Boltor/Soma P, Marelok/Brakk and whatever the "OP" melee weapon is* in order to kill ONE enemy, Snipers, Casters and other playstyles should be just as viable, not just using all the brokenly powerful weapons all the time.

 

*slight exaggeration

[Althran]

adaptation =/= making only a single loadout viable.

 

I shouldn't HAVE to use *Rhino P, Boltor/Soma P, Marelok/Brakk and whatever the "OP" melee weapon is* in order to kill ONE enemy, Snipers, Casters and other playstyles should be just as viable, not just using all the brokenly powerful weapons all the time.

 

*slight exaggeration

 

My god; a person who gets it

 

bless your soul

[Vallerian]

adaptation =/= making only a single loadout viable.

 

I shouldn't HAVE to use *Rhino P, Boltor/Soma P, Marelok/Brakk and whatever the "OP" melee weapon is* in order to kill ONE enemy, Snipers, Casters and other playstyles should be just as viable, not just using all the brokenly powerful weapons all the time.

 

*slight exaggeration

 

But there certainly are many many viable T4 Loadouts

 

Obviously only 1 loadout can be the best, but T4 in no way forces you into only 1 build.

[DrBorris]

It is now effected by damage, but not solely based on damage like cold eximus enemies. If you noticed, the shield was shrinking more per shot with the Marelok than with the Braton. It just takes damage into account, but is still mostly based on hit count. I can especially tell this with Opticor, it is still very inefficient at popping the bubbles, but the amount the shield decreases per shot is much higher than that of a low damage/high RoF weapon. Unfortunately, low RoF weapons still suck against Nullifies still.

Edited December 25, 2014 by DrBorris

[akira_him]

But there certainly are many many viable T4 Loadouts

 

Obviously only 1 loadout can be the best, but T4 in no way forces you into only 1 build.

I am not sure about anything non-endless

But the reward mechanics in endless force us to use the best build in order to stay long enough

[Althran]

It is now effected by damage, but not solely based on damage like cold eximus enemies. If you noticed, the shield was shrinking more per shot with the Marelok than with the Braton. It just takes damage into account, but is still mostly based on hit count. I can especially tell this with Opticor, it is still very inefficient at popping the bubbles, but the amount the shield decreases per shot is much higher than that of a low damage/high RoF weapon. Unfortunately, low RoF weapons still suck against Nullifies still.

 

you seriously can't tell me that it's affected by damage when I was able to take down the shields of a nullifier FASTER with a fresh off the market level 0 braton than I was with a level 30 twice forma'd potatoed vaykor marelok.  You just can't.  It clearly just depends on your rate of fire, which means anyone who doesn't like boltor p or soma is screwed.  video proof, and you doubt it. my word.

[plznohurtme]

yeah, but they DID say that it would be affected by damage.

 

Quote, from DE_Adam on Update 15.7:

 

• Corpus Nullifier shields will now decrease in size depending on incoming damage.

Clearly, that isn't the case.

 

Clearly you don't understand at all... your own example at the start of this clearly showed using 39 rounds from Braton (which didn't kill the nullifier, just the shield) and 10 from the Marelok (took out both shield and nullifier).  What part of this can you not wrap your head around?  The shield still does scale to some extent from the number of shots it takes, however it also takes into account how much damage each of those shots are doing.  So clearly it is shrinking more when more damage is done, it's just not shrinking purely based on damage which is what you seem to want aka Eximus shields.

 

The thing that really needs to go from the Nullifiers is the slow shrinking animation because right now you can take out the shield completely before the animation shows it's gone which wastes ammo when using an auto and can have reload implications when using a higher damage/single shot weapon.

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

you seriously can't tell me that it's affected by damage when I was able to take down the shields of a nullifier FASTER with a fresh off the market level 0 braton than I was with a level 30 twice forma'd potatoed vaykor marelok.  You just can't.  It clearly just depends on your rate of fire, which means anyone who doesn't like boltor p or soma is screwed.  video proof, and you doubt it. my word.

 

I think what he was saying is that it is dependent on both. Each round that hits the shield reduces it by (X + Y). Where X is a static amount of decrease per hit and Y is the amount of decrease calculated depending on damage of each round.

 

The result is that damage matters but rate of fire is still superior in most situations.

[taiiat]

hmm, Corrupted Nullifiers should be fixed already, but it's entirely possible they haven't been.

[yles9056]

I solo T4E many times. I can confirm this. I use Dread and found that charged and uncharged arrows were the same. Please fix it!

Nullifier crewmen have very high dps against players. They are very dangerous. If we cannot kill them faster, we die faster.

Edited December 25, 2014 by yles9056

[letir]

Burst weapon take down shields even faster than full-auto for some reason. I don't get it.

[Makya]

I solo T4E many times. I can confirm this. I use Dread and found that charged and uncharged arrows were the same. Please fix it!

Nullifier crewmen have very high dps against players. They are very dangerous. If we cannot kill them faster, we die faster.

I think that is actually DE's point. Nullifiers are strong against weapons made to take down heavies, weak against weapons to clear out infantry.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Makya

[yles9056]

I think that is actually DE's point. Nullifiers are strong against weapons made to take down heavies, weak against weapons to clear out infantry.

 

But I tried Dex Furis, it didn't kill Nullifiers faster than Brakk and I have to use a lot of ammo. :(

These guys deals at around 450 damage per shot to Mag and Ash at level 31~33.

Edited December 25, 2014 by yles9056

[Makya]

But I tried Dex Furis, it didn't kill Nullifiers faster than Brakk and I have to use a lot of ammo. :(

These guys deals at around 450 damage per shot to Mag and Ash at level 31~33.

You are comparing it to the Brakk.. High pellet count, high damage per pellet.. A weapon that is unrivaled in Burst DPS(almost 3 times that of the boltor prime depending on the build).. I would be surprised if the Brakk wasn't the best weapon against them.

[DSpite]

So what, are you just anti choice?  I should have to sacrifice a weapon slot for some weapon I don't care about like a boltor just to deal with one enemy?  I like having variety.  I like to use different weapons.  People like you make me doubt that this game isn't just going to be rhinos running around with boltors and somas one day.

 

Not what I'm saying.

 

We did NOT have Tier 4 at one stage, and maybe, even in the future, we might get Tier 5 or even 6.

There is eventually going to a brick wall, that yes, DE has to at least try to make "breakable" to get to the LAST tier of drops, but NOT higher.

 

Right now people can get Rotation C with no major problems in T4. The problems start when units get over well above twice player levels.

 

It's not "real" difficultly. The enemy units have NOT been fine tuned specifically for the level, Endless scales like it does just "for something to do", because "math formulas". In other games, when you get "insane" or "nighmare" difficulty, you can bet someone at least tried to fine tune most of it.

 

Please don't complain you did not leave when the green extraction pointer came up like you were INSTRUCTED to do by the Lotus.

 

You decided to stay because you think you have big macho guns that put out 50K DPS. Yes?

 

So deal with it.

[Sakatchi]

Op, stop giving the bubble attenion you clown, its fine.

 

Whats not fine is the fact they spawn every 2 seconds, have aimbot aim, and have a lanka that can one shot you mid jump. That is what should be angering you.

[DSpite]

Op, stop giving the bubble attenion you clown, its fine.

 

Whats not fine is the fact they spawn every 2 seconds, have aimbot aim, and have a lanka that can one shot you mid jump. That is what should be angering you.

 

I don't disagree with this, actually. They should be a force multiplier unit mostly, and maybe not also a highly offensive unit at the same time, or maybe spawn in packs. Maybe from different angles, but not next to each other.

 

Then again, they only become highly dangerous at levels well above max ours, so really, they are probably scaling correctly.

[V0LK]

Yep, takes me 9 shots from Snipetron Vandal to kill a damned bubble. Not all bosses can take that.

[fatpig84]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing

'Hardened Shields' is probably one of my favorite game mechanics. It lets enemies survive the onslaught of our power-creeped weapons without having the ludicrous armor scaling that Warframe's late-game is notorious for.

 

Power creep weapons are Soma Primes and Boltor Primes.

Absolutely brain dead easy. Just mouse over and the thing pops in 2 to 3 seconds.

In fact Synnoid Gammacor would have being the best anti-Nullifier gun, if not for the short range.

 

 

Oh don't you even dare put Dread and Paris Prime in the same league as those above as "power creep" weapons.

These weapons takes skill and only have 72 ammo, I deserve to hit like a truck.

Not spend 7 arrows doing nothing against a bubble.

 

 

In fact the current mechanic is pushing people towards more main stream power creep weapons.

Edited December 25, 2014 by fatpig84

[TheHourMan]

The nullifier's shield is damaged by both fire rate AND damage per shot. I am sure that if you shot the shield with an unranked lato vs that vaykor marelock, you would notice a drastic difference. You managed to pop that bubble, that right there proves that it is indeed effected by damage. If you had that slow of fire rate back before the update, you would not have been able to break down his shield before it regenerated to full. That seems just fine to me.

[egregiousRac]

Clearly you don't understand at all... your own example at the start of this clearly showed using 39 rounds from Braton (which didn't kill the nullifier, just the shield) and 10 from the Marelok (took out both shield and nullifier).  What part of this can you not wrap your head around?  The shield still does scale to some extent from the number of shots it takes, however it also takes into account how much damage each of those shots are doing.  So clearly it is shrinking more when more damage is done, it's just not shrinking purely based on damage which is what you seem to want aka Eximus shields.

 

The thing that really needs to go from the Nullifiers is the slow shrinking animation because right now you can take out the shield completely before the animation shows it's gone which wastes ammo when using an auto and can have reload implications when using a higher damage/single shot weapon.

 

A fully built secondary should have both Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent on, which would make 10 ammo fire 20-28 projectiles, while an unranked Braton would fire one per ammo. That significantly closes the gap. Damage does affect it, but it is only a small amount.

[fatpig84]

The nullifier's shield is damaged by both fire rate AND damage per shot. I am sure that if you shot the shield with an unranked lato vs that vaykor marelock, you would notice a drastic difference. You managed to pop that bubble, that right there proves that it is indeed effected by damage. If you had that slow of fire rate back before the update, you would not have been able to break down his shield before it regenerated to full. That seems just fine to me.

 

That means DE isn't doing enough.

It takes a Soma prime only 2 seconds to cut open the bubble with an ROF of 15 rounds a second.

Or 30 rounds a second if split chamber procs all the time.

 

A Dread at fastest can only draw and let go 1 arrow in 0.6 of a second (draw speed is 0.526 a second with Vile acceleration which no one uses on a dread anyway and this is presuming i am releasing the moment at full draw). Or 2 arrows at 0.6 a second with split chamber.

 

It is a no brainer the ROF gun will win no matter what.

 

So if DE cannot handle this with a hard cap, just put a straight modifier.

Any bow or sniper rifle will always remove the shield by 50% per shot.

Even unmodded or naked.

 

Given how fast the shield regens, it will still take the bow / sniper users a 3rd shot to pop the shields and 1 more to kill the guy anyway!

 

But it is better than me shooting 7 to 9 arrows.

Edited December 25, 2014 by fatpig84

[Akrocius]

Per the Wiki :

• There are both minimum and maximum caps on the damage the shield can take in a single shot; the maximum amount of shots needed to destroy the shield is 24, and the minimum 6.
• Shots that impact the shield in a very short time are considered to be a single shot, meaning that using Multishot on a very powerful hitscan weapon will not help bring the shield down in less than 6 shots, but using it in a weaker weapon still helps.
• The shield shrinks gradually, meaning that weapons with a high rate of fire are at risk of wasting ammo unless they are fired in controlled bursts.

 

This is spot on with what I've experienced fighting them so far. I can pop their bubbles with my Grinlok in 6 rounds each time, no less.

[DoomFruit]

You can carry more then one weapon. Deal with it.

I hate rapid fire weapons. Before the nullifier came in, I could use single shot, high power weapons and do just as well as Boltor Prime spamming Rhinos. Why should I be required to use an entire class of guns that I hate just to deal with one enemy type?

 

EDIT: you really have no idea what you're talking about, do you.

 

 

Right now people can get Rotation C with no major problems in T4. The problems start when units get over well above twice player levels.

 

It's not "real" difficultly. The enemy units have NOT been fine tuned specifically for the level, Endless scales like it does just "for something to do", because "math formulas". In other games, when you get "insane" or "nighmare" difficulty, you can bet someone at least tried to fine tune most of it.

 

Please don't complain you did not leave when the green extraction pointer came up like you were INSTRUCTED to do by the Lotus.

The "green extraction pointer" comes up at 5 minutes. Only total idiots would leave then and miss out on 2/3 of the drop table.

 

And simply reaching rotation C is worthless. You are aware that the useful parts have a miniscule (5% or lower) drop chance, right? 20 runs of 20 minutes each is a 62% chance of getting this part. And that's T4 survival. Interception is worse, since those keys can't even be obtained through syndicates.

 

No, keys aren't easy to get and I plan to wring all I can get out of them.

Edited December 25, 2014 by DoomFruit