Mag Feedback By Einde : A Rework May Be Useful.

[LascarCapable]

When I make a feedback about a frame, I don't usually think about a total rework. But the current state of Mag makes me fell sceptical. I considered Mag as my Starter Frame when I began to play, more than one year ago. I finally ended by not touching her anymore, except to have a bit of fun with Pull, that oftenly make my day (that ragdoll effect is hillarious !). The number of flaws are numerous : too specialised, not so good powers, worst uber/4th power/ult/whatever-you-call-it ever... I am creating that thread in order to suggest how to turn Mag into a Warframe that is both useful, strategic and fun to play.

 

Mags has two big flaws. First, she is too specialized : Mag is considered as a super duper Corpus Annihilator... That's cool, but she just does the work way too easly. By simply using 50 of my energy I can dish out ever more damage than most of those 4th skills that a lot of peole loves to hate, but only to shielded targets. Due to this, she is still okay for void runs, but begin to be lackluster when fighting against Grineers of Infested who does not have shields. Another flaw : she has two skills that are considered useless. Crush is a very good exemple : that skill just became worse due to a nasty bug that appeared at least a year ago and was never fixed. What it does ? Make enemies floating a bit, damage, and everyone is back on their feets before you had the time to finish your animation ! Not only that power is useless, but in higher levels using it is more or less like a suicide. The other one is Bullet Attractor that does not seem to convince a lot of people. There's definitely some interesting ways to use it, but very few people bothers to use it against anything but a boss. You can't recast it, it does not allow you to shoot anything but the primed target until it dies, and the end effect is just... Meh. Those two flaws are pretty much enough to actually discourage player from using Mag, at least outside of Corpus missions.

 

I want to see Mag another way. My Vision of Mag is a "control" Warframe that don't do things like the others. For exemple in defense, while everyone will stick around the pod, Mag will prefer to stay farther, pulling ennemies away. Her powers would really differ from what we can actually see, and it's up to players to find a way to make them as useful as possible. It's like another kind of Loki, but while Loki is the master of tricks and deception, adapted to stealth play, Mag would more affect the state of the Battlefield. A bit like Vauban, without traps.

 

I plan to rework every of Mag's abilities (except pull) in order to make more strategic. Don't hope for a powerhouse : hope for an utility/short CC based frame, where your placing will be the key.

 

 

1) Pull :

 

I absolutely love Pull. That skill is just plain silly : just put yourself on heights and watch the whole crowd fly ! That skill is perfect to clear the Cryopod in Defense mission of just for some short duration CC. Pull is kinda good as it is in my opinion, it just need to get less crasy when you are not the host.

 

 

2) Shield Polarize :

 

Some of you will hate me for that, but I want to get rid of the biggest offensive part of that skill. As said sooner, Shield Polarize is just too strong against the Corpus in my opinion, and gets way less useful against Infested or Grineers. I am more tempted to add a CC effect to that skill with another ally buff. That would be something like this :

- Shield Polarize replenish your allie's shields and your own shields by X% (does not change).

- Your shields can't be depleted for 5 seconds after using the ability. Can't be modified by power duration. However enemies can still attack your health directly with procs or poison damage.

- Enemies around you are briefly stunned. Procs magnetic at nearby enemies.

 

 

3) Bullet Attractor :

 

I think this is a shame to get rid of it. There's plenty of ways to use it intelligently and strategically. But it needs something more to be really... Attractive (I AM SO FUNNY HONHONHONHONHON !!!). What I suggest is to make it attracting enemies toward the primed enemy when the skill is casted. Like this, it could allow some very interesting combos with electric procs, punch through weapons and explosive weapons. The explosion effect at the end when you kill an enemy is also clearly not worth it, so I suggest to make that explosion ragdolling enemies away when it occurs. This would offer to Mag an interesting battlefield control tool to use. Don't make that effect too strong. I want to keep the strong fun ragdoll for crush actually.

 

 

4) Crush :

 

Crush is bad. Crush is the worst. Crush is the ugliest thing you can find as a WF power ! You know what is actually worse than all of those "OP skills" that most of you see as flaws ? A skill that looks like an autodestruct button. Crush desperately need an additional effect, if not two, to be really worth it. Everything is wrong with that skill, especially it's description to begin with. I mean, come on ! I broke the bones of that freaking Heavy Gunner in front of me and he landing gently on his feet like if it was getting up from his own desk chair... Crush shouldn't be gentle. Crush should be fearsome. You should pee you pants when you see Mag do it, and not laught at her and slap her face in return. What I suggest here, is a movement crippling effect. Enemies affected by crush will permanently take more time to wake up from ragdolls (which synergize with Pull and our newly buffed BA) and also move 40% slower. In addition, at the end of crush, all enemies caught in it are STRONGLY ragdolled away. In short, Crush will cripple, and teach your enemies how to fly.

 

 

I am actually doubtful about the way I modified Shield Polarize. While in my opinion it desperately needed a rework, I feel like that 5 seconds virtual invincibility would be kinda exploitable. Anyway, I'll leave you give your opinion now.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Making Mag more powerful whuold be nice

[Llyssa]

Last I checked, you could shoot at anything that wasn't inside of the bullet attractor bubble...

 

I would think, two minor changes might make BA much more interesting:

 

1. allow recast. Let mag put up as many bullet attractors as she can afford.

2. force a radiation proc on any victim of bullet attractor--this causes all enemies to regard the afflicted enemy as a target, thus concentrating more of their fire on it.

 

For crush, it should probably inflict an impact proc or blast proc, forcing KD, as well as corrosive proc(how can you have your armor bent like that and have it still give you 100% protection?).

 

Both skills should also force a magnetic proc, 1: to keep with her theme, and 2: make sure she still has good utility with them against shielded targets.

 

Leave the other skills be, and she'd be great.

[AM-Bunny]

I would make shield polarize weaker. Remove the invulnerability, like you said it's way too much. Also, I'd remove the stun, even if it's a short duration, polarize is so spammable it'd be like a better radial blind that also restores everyone's shields. I do really like the other two changes, 100% magnetic proc in place of damage and restoring ally shields.

I honestly think crush needs even more than what you listed. I think a good change would be to allow Mag to move after her initial "levitate" hand gesture. This way she could actually skeet shoot her targets.

For bullet attractor, another change I'd suggest is have the explosion upon death occur instantly. Even when I try to use it, the explosion doesn't trigger until like, 2 seconds after death, and all the ther enemies are long gone by then.

[Kthal]

In my mind, the best step in reworking her abilities would be to remove Crush, make Shield Polarize her fourth, increasing it to equivalent of +100% power strength, then reworking some of the proposed Crush effects into Bullet Attractor, and give her a new #2.

If her other three abilities are, more or less, equally effective against all factions, then a very specific ultimate seems fine to me.

On the note of a new #2, I'm all for her being given a 25/25/50/100 distribution like Volt, it makes for a very enjoyable ability set.

Also, thinking of unique Warframe perks, what about Mag having the unique trait of armour reduction applying to her shields as well as her health?

Edited February 19, 2015 by Kthal

[LisRestall]

- Your shields can't be depleted for 5 seconds after using the ability. Can't be modified by power duration. However enemies can still attack your health directly with procs or poison damage.

This might cause some complaints about Mag. While she is still vulnerable to poison/slash procs, that is easily solved by Quick Thinking mod and a high energy pool with Primed Flow. Since she will have high energy pool, it makes spamming the way to go so she gets some pseudo-god mode.

 

I do want Mag to be somewhat reworked, I don't mind if Shield Polarize won't scale infinitely anymore, just make her viable on everything while being FUN to play. I'm not against the other ideas but I don't particularly like it either. I would just let DE do what they think is needed to be changed on Mag.

[Eirauden]

I like the suggestions you've made. They're making sense and propose a very good start. Maybe some of the reword seems to be too powerful the way you reword them (like crush with his possibility to crowd control ennemies forever), but are very interessesting.

 

You're right, Mag need a rework.

Nice job

[KingIzek]

Elinde... I share you passion for Mag as a starter frame. She was my starter as well. And I absolutely love your suggestion for the third ability. For some reason I'm just imagining the Pull the Abyss skill from Dragon Age Inquisition. 

 

Also if DE were to ever implement something like this... Please, please, please, please, please, please (x10) don't let it be an augment.

Edited February 19, 2015 by KingIzek

[LascarCapable]

Last I checked, you could shoot at anything that wasn't inside of the bullet attractor bubble...

 

I would think, two minor changes might make BA much more interesting:

 

1. allow recast. Let mag put up as many bullet attractors as she can afford.

2. force a radiation proc on any victim of bullet attractor--this causes all enemies to regard the afflicted enemy as a target, thus concentrating more of their fire on it.

 

For crush, it should probably inflict an impact proc or blast proc, forcing KD, as well as corrosive proc(how can you have your armor bent like that and have it still give you 100% protection?).

 

Both skills should also force a magnetic proc, 1: to keep with her theme, and 2: make sure she still has good utility with them against shielded targets.

 

Leave the other skills be, and she'd be great.

 

I tried it before posting my thread. Actually all shots are redirected towards the primed enemy. So you can't hit another enemy inside the bubble. However, the radiation idea seems kinda good, even if it's a bit out of her theme, and recast is also a nice one. However as far as I know BA costs 75 energy... This may not make recast as interesting, but it can be something.

 

For crush, impact/blast procs are not enough in my opinion. I prefer ragdolling enemies away. It's almost like a blast proc anyway, but funnier... Heh.

 

I really want to touch Shield Polarize because I really find it either too efficient, either not as useful as it should be (or either okay if you play in the void). I want to give it more consistency, while removing that huge cheap cost nuke that really trivialise the Corpus. So far, all frames are more or less doing good againt any factions. Of course, for exemple, Volt will be a bit less powerful against Grineers since heavy grineers are resistant to electric damage, and may have trouble against infested since they'll tend to get you at close range, making Electric Shield less useful. But no Warframe have such a big gap between every factions more than Mag.

[cyrus106]

I like all of this but shield polarize. Its the ONLY scaling damage power in the game, removing it would be terrible

[Llyssa]

I tried it before posting my thread. Actually all shots are redirected towards the primed enemy. So you can't hit another enemy inside the bubble. However, the radiation idea seems kinda good, even if it's a bit out of her theme, and recast is also a nice one. However as far as I know BA costs 75 energy... This may not make recast as interesting, but it can be something.

 

For crush, impact/blast procs are not enough in my opinion. I prefer ragdolling enemies away. It's almost like a blast proc anyway, but funnier... Heh.

 

I really want to touch Shield Polarize because I really find it either too efficient, either not as useful as it should be (or either okay if you play in the void). I want to give it more consistency, while removing that huge cheap cost nuke that really trivialise the Corpus. So far, all frames are more or less doing good againt any factions. Of course, for exemple, Volt will be a bit less powerful against Grineers since heavy grineers are resistant to electric damage, and may have trouble against infested since they'll tend to get you at close range, making Electric Shield less useful. But no Warframe have such a big gap between every factions more than Mag.

I think SP is rather balanced by that fact--it's VERY useful in the VERY situational case where it has an effect. That is the goal DE has stated they want MORE of--things that are fantastic, situationally, rather than the current standard of "blanket pretty-good"ness we have. SP is the gold standard by which such concepts should go.

[LascarCapable]

I like all of this but shield polarize. Its the ONLY scaling damage power in the game, removing it would be terrible

Actually, that damage power would only scale if there are shields around to exploit. You have also Antimatter Drop, Absorb and possibly Peacemaker (not sure about it) that seems to scale pretty well (especially Absorb).

I can find the appeal about scaling damage, but this shouldn't really be a "I win" button. It's okay to have one, but it have to be at least hard to use. For exemple, Antimatter Drop scales like crazy with your own guns damage (and now with enemy's gun damage due to Antimatter Absorb augment), but this is also a slow moving projectile, making it harder to use. You may say "it's already the case with SP, since you need shielded enemies to use it", but I don't mean "hard" that way. It should be hard due to the way you have to use it or reunite the conditions in order to see it working well, not hard in the sense that it would only work so well for one faction.

I think SP is rather balanced by that fact--it's VERY useful in the VERY situational case where it has an effect. That is the goal DE has stated they want MORE of--things that are fantastic, situationally, rather than the current standard of "blanket pretty-good"ness we have. SP is the gold standard by which such concepts should go.

I'll be very based on my own opinion about this, so what I'll say here is not especially revelent.

A bit like I stated sonner in that post, I am really against skills that become almost useless depending of the faction or the tileset. I'm okay with skills working well in some situations (like shock, who would deal more damage if enemies are tightly packed, because electric procs), but I think it should be situations that can be encountered at every kind of missions. After all, what's the point of using shield polarize in an infested missions, unless if it's for replenishing your shields of course ? Here, the usefulness falls very harshly, and it kinda saddens me when I know that I can't use X really good thing because it's the bad faction. I can't list any Warframe that has that kind problem at such a degree but Mag. For exemple, when I use Electric Shield in Infested missions, I know that I won't be allow to block a lot of things, but I can use the bonuses of my shield anyway, and protect myself from Ancient's harpoons and goo shots, so I know that it does not become plainly pointless for the whole mission, and I am happy anyway. But when I bring a Mag on the same mission... Meh. I use it to reload my shields and that's all, which is not the main reason about using that skill. By the way, maybe it should be.

I would make shield polarize weaker. Remove the invulnerability, like you said it's way too much. Also, I'd remove the stun, even if it's a short duration, polarize is so spammable it'd be like a better radial blind that also restores everyone's shields. I do really like the other two changes, 100% magnetic proc in place of damage and restoring ally shields.

I honestly think crush needs even more than what you listed. I think a good change would be to allow Mag to move after her initial "levitate" hand gesture. This way she could actually skeet shoot her targets.

For bullet attractor, another change I'd suggest is have the explosion upon death occur instantly. Even when I try to use it, the explosion doesn't trigger until like, 2 seconds after death, and all the ther enemies are long gone by then.

Well, I think this is pretty enough for crush. A crippling effect that will work very well against less ranged units, big ragdoll effect... There's a lot of 4th powers that can't do that much. Sure, it's not Rhino Stomp or Molecular Prime, but you have also three other abilities that will become pretty handy.

Instant explosion on death seem pretty mandatory. I should add this to my current buff idea.

About removing the stun effect... I dont know. Maybe I should get rid of the shield invincibility effect instead. Now that I am thinking about. Stunning enemies around four players is pretty nice as a panic button. Also, we have already skills like accelerant that can stunlock. So why not that modified shield polarize ?

[DrBorris]

Mag Prime (Mag was starter, farmed Prime as soon as I knew that there was such a thing) is still my most used frame even though I have not touched her in a few months (she carried me through my noob days), well... aside for Alad runs.

 

I would love for Pull to pull enemies to my feet rather than throw them wildly around, but that is just my preference.

 

While I would hate to see Shield Polarize go, I think it must in order to justify her getting a better kit. I am pretty sure you noticed this, but that 5 second pseudo-invulnerability is a bit OP. However, I like the direction. Maybe have it give damage reduction to shields? Shatter Shield and Eclipse both get that Damage reduction, I think giving Mag a version would not be too OP. Well, because it is only 50 energy and effects the team I guess it should cap a bit lower (80%?). Also, Shield Polarize could get a buff to the amount of shield restored, I see no reason why 100% would be OP. Then the mag proc and stun (just like an impact proc) sound nice.

 

I think Bullet Attractor's fix is relatively simple, just use Absorb as a model. The first little change would be to have it so enemies projectiles are redirected (but the enemies do not target the enemy under the effect) to the selected enemy. Then have all damage done to the enemy during the red phase (after the enemy dies) be added into the explosion damage in the end. And throw in a blast proc for fun. Due to the short duration of the red phase, I think this is well balanced and does not impeded on Absorb.

 

Crush... I love the suggestion. However, I disagree that Crush is complete poo, It is still my favorite ability animation after using every frame :)

 

Now if DE would just rework frames rather than just tweak them (looking at you Ember and Nekros)...

[RealPandemonium]

On Crush:

 

 

Mag is truly over-specialized, mostly due to Crush's damage type being mediocre overall and Crush being unusable for anything other than clean-up against Corpus after a SP.  Making BA more useful against crowds (possibly through a spread mechanic or a more damaging explosion based on player interaction?) and making Crush actually useful would go a long way toward round Mag out as a frame.  

 

Toning down Pull's mindless CC factor and putting some of that power into Crush while keeping Pull useful would be ideal.  I would make Pull actually pull enemies to Mag's feet (similar to how it used to but in an AOE and without the teleportation aspect, blending the two versions) while staggering them (ccing them and prepping them for aoe, melee, etc; also allowing effective chain cc without the ridiculous timing window offered by current Pullspam) and give Crush the crazy random ragdoll that Pull does in its current form. I would also make Crush apply a slow and deal some puncture damage over time during that slow with a 100% proc chance so that enemies are actually significantly weakened by the ability.  The Puncture damage would also make it more useful vs Grineer, though that wouldn't be the focus of the ability.  

 

My version of Crush:

Same as now, but after the animation ends enemies are ragdolled similar to how Pull currently works.  After the ragdoll enemies are slowed for 6 seconds (Should this be affected by power duration? I don't see why not.)  Enemies receive 75 Puncture damage with a 100% proc chance for each second that they are slowed.  This would actually disable enemies according to the ability's description and make it more effective against Infested heavy units and Grineer instead of just tickling them damage-wise.  Maybe the base Magnetic damage could be lowered to 900 or 800 to compensate for the extra damage added to the end of the ability, but given how feeble Crush currently is a straight buff wouldn't be unwelcome.  I would certainly approve of a nerf to SP to accompany these revisions.  

 

 

[420degreequicksopeswag]

Only change i can think of for pull:

 

Do enemies take fall damage? 

They need to...

Getting pulled and flung across the room at >200 miles per hour warrants serious trauma...(Including Jat kittag etc)

 

Shield polarize:

-Restore shields as usual

-Shields restored is accumulated into a hand-held grenade type weapon

-Recast tosses said grenade, exploding on contact to deal lotsa damage(probably magnetic)

 

Bullet attractor:

-Please reduce the energy cost drastically

-Still grabs bullets and stuff

-Will also attract the shield polarize grenade to turn it into a homing missile

-Slowly pulls enemies to attracted target, not like vortex

-if target dies, the attraction field persists

-Already Ragdolled enemies will be pulled with greater force

-Using pull on enemies while BA is active will pull towards normal direction, then "sling-shot" the enemy back towards the BA(Bonus physical injury from snapping your neck on a pole etc)

 

Crush:

-Once raising all targets, gain a 3 second interval 

-During these three seconds, reactivate the ability to toss all lifted enemies in the direction of the mouse.

-Keep the damage

-Introduce fall damage(getting tossed into the ceiling would snap a few bones, falling another 200 feet to the floor would shatter whatever's left)

 

Crush(edited version):

-rename ability, maybe... gravity reversal?

-Keep cost of 100, add energy drain(toggle)

-Words associated with mag->Magnetism->gravity

-Therefore...

-activating four will reverse ENEMY GRAVITY 

-All effected enemies get ragdolled and "fall" to the ceiling(or into the sky), taking damage on anything they collide with

-Reactivate to reverse gravity and end toggle

 

 

Reflections:

Crush is made a costly ability that can slam enemies into the floor after lifting them into nigh space

Chain pull with BA to build a human slingshot to kill enemies with ragdolled enemies

Chain SP with BA to decimate a clumped up group

Two BA's close to each other can tear enemies in half under the pressure

 

Conclusion:

Mag becomes CC goddess with kit synergy, team support, and enemy manipulation

No 4 spamming, its too expensive and locks down mag

Edited February 20, 2015 by 420degreequicksopeswag

[Liacu]

What?!? No protests about restoring Pull to its former glory?!? I feel so betrayed Einde...

 

Well, to be on topic, I don't believe Mag needs much of a rework. Bullet Attractor just needs some AoE capability to make it more useful for regular play (and not talking about the completely useless ending explosion). Something like dealing partial damage to everyone inside the globe while dealing full damage to the primary target. Maybe even have the Bullet Attractor sphere last a few seconds after the primed enemy has died.

 

Now for Crush, maybe make it more interesting and have its damage scale with the amount of enemies affected? This would synergize very well with Mag, especially if she ever got her old Pull back. (You know, when enemies were actually pulled to her feet) Maybe if the damage amount is really high, make Crush's range really small to compensate.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Liacu

[Monolake]

good thing DE hardly ever reads forum suggestions

[Azamagon]

I can get behind the nerf of Shield Polarize, but I'd not remove it entirely, just reduce it quite a lot. Why? Because there are ways to make its shield-opportunistic feature useful on ANY faction...

 

From my Warframe tweak thread:

 

Archetype: Reverser (Changing enemy strengths into their weakness, be it their defenses, weaponry or the size of their army)

Mag is not all too bad of a character, but needs a little utility boosting for some abilities, and more emphasis on her "reverser" role.

 

* Pull - Can be used through walls again, angle of effect reduced to only 45 degrees (range unaffected though), enemies are ragdolled more accurately to a meter or so in front of Mag (instead of randomly flinging them). Enemies are magnetically forced to the floor for 0,4/0,6/0,8/1 second after landing. An enemy hitting anything on the way (wall, other enemy etc) causes said enemy to suffer an additional 15/30/45/60 Impact damage.

Power Strength - Affects damage

Power Range - Affects radius

Power Duration - Affects floor duration (NEW!)

 

* Shield Polarize - Could go with some slight toning down in damage scaling (just a tad). A Bullet Attractor target is considered to be "shielded" for the sake of Shield Polarize (with 150/250/350/500 "shields", depending on the rank of Bullet Attractor)! This gives you an offensive CC-use of Shield Polarize even against shieldless enemies, which is particularly useful on melee enemies!

Power Strength - Affects shield potency (offense and defense)

Power Range - Affects range

Power Duration - Affects ????

 

* Bullet Attractor - Energy cost reduced to 50, now gives shots fired on/in the sphere perfect punchthrough all the way towards the target! Projectiles don't need to hit the outer shell to become redirected anymore (they are INSTANTLY redirected to the target). The explosion is now detonated either upon target death, upon BA's expiration, or when/if you cast the ability again midduration (which will instantly remove the attractor-sphere from the target)! (Note: Being able to detonate it at command also means you can refresh/recast it at your own whim!)

The explosion now looks more like a magnetic blastwave (combined with added gory shrapnel if the target dies during it). Damage of the explosion is now 75/150/225/300 Magnetic damage and an additional damage equal to 5/10/15/20% of the target's suffered damage during the ability, dealt as Puncture damage.

Power Strength - Affects the explosion damage (both the flat Magnetic one and the scaling percentage!) (NEW!)

Power Range - Affects size

Power Duration - Affects duration

 

* Crush - First, enemies are crushed, dealing 900/1000/1100/1200 damage, dealt 50/50 as Magnetic and Puncture (Magnetic first). Then, enemies are slammed together in front of Mag (fitting the animation), dealing an additional 10/20/30/40 Impact damage per unit involved in Crush, above 1 target. Enemies are then ragdolled in their squished form for 2/3/4/5 seconds after landing.

Furthermore: Enemies that are being flinged by Pull will always be affected by Crush when they get inside its range, even if they fly into a midcast Crush + Enemies that are affected by Bullet Attractor, and all other enemies inside Bullet Attractor's sphere, will be lifted by Crush, no matter where they are! (Think of Bullet Attractor as a way to extend Crush's range)

Power Strength - Affects damage, including the new slamdamage! (NEW!)

Power Range - Affects radius

Power Duration - Affects ragdoll duration (NEW!)

 

*** Augments ***

Greedy Pull - Also has a 25/50/75/100% chance to steal the magazine from ranged enemies', granting additional ammo drops from affected targets as well as forcing them to reload when they get up!

Shield Transference - Is fine, maybe could affect allies too though?

 

EDIT: And if I'd suggest augments for BA and Crush:

BA - Like you suggested Einde, upon cast, all enemies within range are slammed in towards the main target (with Impact damage upon collisions?). Considering the recastability I proposed (that you can "detonate" it upon recasting) makes it a useful on demand single-instance Vortex. Not bad.

Crush - After all enemies are slammed together, you can Launch this ball of enemies in the direction you aim your crosshair, dealing damage to the launched enemies and anything that gets in the way. That'd be cool, useful and fun :)

Edited February 21, 2015 by Azamagon

[LascarCapable]

What?!? No protests about restoring Pull to its former glory?!? I feel so betrayed Einde...

 

I wasn't sure about suggesting it. When I created the thread, I first though about making pull to ragdoll enemies at Mag's feet, but before that wanted to try pull again. From what I saw, considering enemies at the same "floor" than you, you seem to ragdoll enemies with a "fixed distance", or more explained : a fixed "force". I though it wasn't here by chance : maybe the "V2" version of Pull was a bit too powerful, so I decided to finally not suggest anything about Pull, and just state that it seems fine as it is.

 

 

I can get behind the nerf of Shield Polarize, but I'd not remove it entirely, just reduce it quite a lot. Why? Because there are ways to make its shield-opportunistic feature useful on ANY faction...

 

From my Warframe tweak thread:

 

Archetype: Reverser (Changing enemy strengths into their weakness, be it their defenses, weaponry or the size of their army)

Mag is not all too bad of a character, but needs a little utility boosting for some abilities, and more emphasis on her "reverser" role.

 

* Pull - Can be used through walls again, angle of effect reduced to only 45 degrees (range unaffected though), enemies are ragdolled more accurately to a meter or so in front of Mag (instead of randomly flinging them). Enemies are magnetically forced to the floor for 0,4/0,6/0,8/1 second after landing. An enemy hitting anything on the way (wall, other enemy etc) causes said enemy to suffer an additional 15/30/45/60 Impact damage.

Power Strength - Affects damage

Power Range - Affects radius

Power Duration - Affects floor duration (NEW!)

 

* Shield Polarize - Could go with some slight toning down in damage scaling (just a tad). A Bullet Attractor target is considered to be "shielded" for the sake of Shield Polarize (with 150/250/350/500 "shields", depending on the rank of Bullet Attractor)! This gives you an offensive CC-use of Shield Polarize even against shieldless enemies, which is particularly useful on melee enemies!

Power Strength - Affects shield potency (offense and defense)

Power Range - Affects range

Power Duration - Affects ????

 

* Bullet Attractor - Energy cost reduced to 50, now gives shots fired on/in the sphere perfect punchthrough all the way towards the target! Projectiles don't need to hit the outer shell to become redirected anymore (they are INSTANTLY redirected to the target). The explosion is now detonated either upon target death, upon BA's expiration, or when/if you cast the ability again midduration (which will instantly remove the attractor-sphere from the target)! (Note: Being able to detonate it at command also means you can refresh/recast it at your own whim!)

The explosion now looks more like a magnetic blastwave (combined with added gory shrapnel if the target dies during it). Damage of the explosion is now 75/150/225/300 Magnetic damage and an additional damage equal to 5/10/15/20% of the target's suffered damage during the ability, dealt as Puncture damage.

Power Strength - Affects the explosion damage (both the flat Magnetic one and the scaling percentage!) (NEW!)

Power Range - Affects size

Power Duration - Affects duration

 

* Crush - First, enemies are crushed, dealing 900/1000/1100/1200 damage, dealt 50/50 as Magnetic and Puncture (Magnetic first). Then, enemies are slammed together in front of Mag (fitting the animation), dealing an additional 10/20/30/40 Impact damage per unit involved in Crush, above 1 target. Enemies are then ragdolled in their squished form for 2/3/4/5 seconds after landing.

Furthermore: Enemies that are being flinged by Pull will always be affected by Crush when they get inside its range, even if they fly into a midcast Crush + Enemies that are affected by Bullet Attractor, and all other enemies inside Bullet Attractor's sphere, will be lifted by Crush, no matter where they are! (Think of Bullet Attractor as a way to extend Crush's range)

Power Strength - Affects damage, including the new slamdamage! (NEW!)

Power Range - Affects radius

Power Duration - Affects ragdoll duration (NEW!)

 

*** Augments ***

Greedy Pull - Also has a 25/50/75/100% chance to steal the magazine from ranged enemies', granting additional ammo drops from affected targets as well as forcing them to reload when they get up!

Shield Transference - Is fine, maybe could affect allies too though?

 

EDIT: And if I'd suggest augments for BA and Crush:

BA - Like you suggested Einde, upon cast, all enemies within range are slammed in towards the main target (with Impact damage upon collisions?). Considering the recastability I proposed (that you can "detonate" it upon recasting) makes it a useful on demand single-instance Vortex. Not bad.

Crush - After all enemies are slammed together, you can Launch this ball of enemies in the direction you aim your crosshair, dealing damage to the launched enemies and anything that gets in the way. That'd be cool, useful and fun :)

 

While I do not agree about everything (but I won't argue about it, it's your vision of Mag after all), I really love what you suggested for Greedy Pull. It fits and it's brillant !

[Liacu]

I wasn't sure about suggesting it. When I created the thread, I first though about making pull to ragdoll enemies at Mag's feet, but before that wanted to try pull again. From what I saw, considering enemies at the same "floor" than you, you seem to ragdoll enemies with a "fixed distance", or more explained : a fixed "force". I though it wasn't here by chance : maybe the "V2" version of Pull was a bit too powerful, so I decided to finally not suggest anything about Pull, and just state that it seems fine as it is.

 

Yeah, the fixed distance thing was applied not too long ago so enemies aren't flung a mile away. Still, I feel like the skill could be so much more. It was her signature ability after all until Shield Polarize came around and then she just became the same as everyone else, a Press-a-button-to-win frame. Now we just have a painfully average skill where you would better off with many other kinds of frames if you wanted defense/crowd control.

 

I'm just such a advocate for Pull V2 because it offered such a unique role and playstyle that no other warframe has even now. Manipulating enemy positions, like what's in her description. (lets just forget how utterly useless Ripline and Switch Teleport are for that role)

Edited February 22, 2015 by Liacu

[LascarCapable]

Yeah, the fixed distance thing was applied not too long ago so enemies aren't flung a mile away. Still, I feel like the skill could be so much more. It was her signature ability after all until Shield Polarize came around and then she just became the same as everyone else, a Press-a-button-to-win frame. Now we just have a painfully average skill where you would better off with many other kinds of frames if you wanted defense/crowd control.

 

I'm just such a advocate for Pull V2 because it offered such a unique role and playstyle that no other warframe has even now. Manipulating enemy positions, like what's in her description. (lets just forget how utterly useless Ripline and Switch Teleport are for that role)

 

Well, that's a legit way to see it. I feel like more of Mag's skills should manipulate enemies' position though. That's pretty much why I suggested those changes to Bullet Attractor and Crush. I guess it wouldn't hurt to bring Pull to its former glory.