Female/male Warframe Change

[thebrainbrain]

I would absolutly love to choose the gender of some of my frames. Mostly for S#&$ and giggles. On the serious side however I think it would support the idea that the warframe is a suti of armor and can be worn by any tenno that can wield it regardless of gender.

 

When the now dead idea of Focus first came up Steve described it as "improving your tenno" rather then a warframe which raised the question how a single tenno could both be in a male and female warframe.

 

if DE is not willing to define the actual looks of the tenno yet I think it would make a hloe lot of sende to make them genderswapable.

 

But then again ... we are daydreaming here. The workload would be unbearable

Edited May 17, 2015 by thebrainbrain

[Morec0]

I think it's hypocritical that the argument against this is: "If we made an opposite gender variant of every Warframe, that opposite gender would have to have its own unique powers because it'd be a unique model and would have to be a new Warframe,"

 

If that's true, why aren't proto-skins their own unique Warframes? They obviously took effort to make or update the models and to update the textures, and yet it's just a remodel of an existing Warframe, which is essentially what an opposite gender would be. Don't you see how hypocritical that is?

 

The Dark Sector skins are now only 4/10-points canon, meaning they're probably more reference than actual lore - though I continue to contend that certain elements of Dark Sector (at least in terms of a character named "Hayden Tenno" existing and inspiring the creation of the Tenno later on) are still noteworthy for the canon - and as such they are, logically, more inclined to be the same thing as bunny ears - a visual piece for the players, but not actually something that exists in the game-world.

[(XBOX)GeediJunior]

There's one fairly glaring piece of evidence if you cast your eye down to the crotch region.

As someone who 90% of the time prefers to play as male characters I'd welcome more options, I'd like to see a male Mesa in particular.

Messa looks already like a male she is underdevolpt(in other words she is a pettanko) if u know what i mean

[RoboDoge]

Creating different body model for each frame would take the same time as creating new frame. So ill rather have them as they are now.

[Hypernaut1]

Their time would be much better spent on better things. It wouldnt be "just" a skin- as if they can open up photoshop, erase some boobs, and call it a day. They would have to redesign the frame, redo the hit boxes, rework the cosmetics to fit properly, etc. 

 

I'd much rather them work on new frames, primes and cosmetics than gender swapping. Whats wrong with the gender anyway?

[Nervegrowthfactor]

I would definitely like the option for a different gender skin. It is a worthy concept and it will make the game extraordinary diversified. Lets hope sometimes DE will try to implement it. Also the idea of similarly themed warframes sounds nice. 

[Krion112]

-snip-

That's still not an argument for not allowing Gender changing as an aesthetic. If DE is going to invest in making new models only for existing Warframes that's just a prototype version of that version, that seems contradictory to their statement as to why they don't make alternate genders, which was because of all the work on modelling the alternate gender they would rather make a new Warframe.

[Sorez]

The only female from male I'd support:

 

 

If only they kept Ash female :p

[Morec0]

That's still not an argument for not allowing Gender changing as an aesthetic. If DE is going to invest in making new models only for existing Warframes that's just a prototype version of that version, that seems contradictory to their statement as to why they don't make alternate genders, which was because of all the work on modelling the alternate gender they would rather make a new Warframe.

 

Because those are two skins - maybe more, but all in all they've already got a fairly simple layout to them, and plenty of concept are already in place to show what they look like and how hint to how they should be mapped onto the current frame body. What your suggesting will require large amounts of conceptualizing and work to put into effect, all of which would have to be done FROM SCRATCH.

 

Plus, it's also a simple matter of the fact that: they don't want to.

 

To be a TRULY accurate representation of Nemesis from Dark Sector, Nyx would have needed to become male, and have the types of physical changes to her silhouette that your gender swaps would. But what did we get? We got her with still both her arms and in a VERY more feminine body than he is in Dark Sector - yeah, say what you will about Nadia being the one inside the suit, but the Nemesis itself was VERY much male in appearance, that's kinda the whole point of that twist: to not even hint that Nadia might be within the suit through its physical form.

 

Cut to the warframe Nemesis skin, sure it's got a altered helmet, a little tail thing, but it is still a MUCH more feminine form than Nemesis from Dark Sector. Why? Because that maps onto the ALREADY EXISTING female Nyx.

 

To alter the current Warframe genders means you have to remap ALL of those current textures, all of those designs onto a new base mesh, and as someone who's looked into 3D modeling and texture design, I can tell you that's not as easy as it looks. You need to be pretty spot-on with the skin you're going to put onto the 3D mesh or else it'll clip over itself, do all sorts of weird things, and generally just look UGLY.

 

So, you have to go in and edit the 3D mesh, you have to go in and remake the entire skin to fit over the new 3D mesh - plus do this for ALL skins that Warframe currently has (immortal and the like) - and then you have to go through and manually fit all of the armor pieces and weapon settings onto gender-swapped skins manually, as is their way.

 

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR 20+ FRAMES!

 

The Proto-skins come out once a year, that's not a problem. This? This would eat up SO much time we wouldn't see U17 'til the END OF NEXT YEAR. If EVEN that early!

[Dhrekr]

This thread.

 

Again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

 

And again.

[BETAOPTICS]

Why does the gender matter so much? I mean I typically play with males since I am a male but I do not care either way.

[arch111]

Zephyr has objections to that codpiece reference ;)

[Morec0]

Zephyr has objections to that codpiece reference ;)

 

Oooooooooooooh.

 

*finally gets a certain gmod joke image*

[arch111]

Like Morec0 said, a comitted team tasked with creating alt genders would be needed for this, and so far DE have not needed our money from this.

If they had seen a great source of income I think they would have done it a while ago.

Lets say DE wanted to try this with the starters.

Take Mag. The plainest and easiest to convert.

Use the closest model to her, what about Ash? Modify it to follow Mag's design.

Next comes textures and such, have to be done from scratch of course but reuse Mag as much as possible.

Then come the animations that need to translate, from the fact stances can move around I see no real problem besides time.

Bottom line: if they wanted to they could do this pretty easy with their skills and resources. ZBrush can do amazing stuff these days.

But they have to Want To give us the Option.

But hey, anyone with good 3dskills here, feel free to make a female Nekros, a male Ember or a male Valkyr. Prove to DE it can look amazing.

[Katinka]

Wow.  Reading through this thread and I find 10 posts I want to reference.  Now, can I remember what I was going to say to each one...

 

 

Well, the main problem is that creating such appearance would require lots of work, and even if it's not a bad idea, i think there's really more important thing to work on for the devs. 

 

Yeah, more important things such as making proto skins.  ;P  (That was an easy one to start off.)

 

"Male Mirage Skin" using Mirage's Noble Idle by default..... yep, not going to occur.

 

Ummm... It would use 'Default' by default, not 'Noble'.  Just like every other frame.  Anyway, I can already use that on Rhino, Volt, Excalibur etc.  You get the picture.  If you don't, there's a video on youtube of every frame using Mirage Noble.  Probably not as disturbing as the video of every frame using Limbo Agile.

 

Additionally a 'Snow Queen' frame? Why can't a female Ice Frame be a badass warrior who spits and wipes her mouth in her noble animations?

 

Because her spit would probably be icicles?  That and Warframes don't have exposed mouths so she'd be spitting into her helmet which would be a bit silly of her.

 

Do you want a female Rhino?

 

Yes!  Male one is already wearing a corset anyway...

 

Who says Rhino is even "male" in the first place?

 

The 'Male Helmet Pack'.  It contains his Vanguard Helmet.

 

There's one fairly glaring piece of evidence if you cast your eye down to the crotch region.

 

Zephyr would dispute that 'evidence'.

 

When the now dead idea of Focus first came up Steve described it as "improving your tenno" rather then a warframe which raised the question how a single tenno could both be in a male and female warframe.

 

While I don't actually disagree, my inner Devil's Advocate makes me want to point out the the plural of 'tenno' is 'tenno' so Steve saying that Focus is "improving your tenno" doesn't technically confirm that we each have one.  It's still possible that we would be improving our stable of tenno.  Actually, that reminds me, the achievement for having 2 Warframes is even called "Building a Stable".

 

Messa looks already like a male she is underdevolpt(in other words she is a pettanko) if u know what i mean

 

It's just her bad posture.  Mesa's animation are damn cool and I use them a lot now but she does slouch.

 

Their time would be much better spent on better things. It wouldnt be "just" a skin- as if they can open up photoshop, erase some boobs, and call it a day. They would have to redesign the frame, redo the hit boxes, rework the cosmetics to fit properly, etc.

 

As per reply to first quote plus:  You'd think they'd need to redo cosmetics to fit but that hasn't stopped them from adding alternate animation sets as Pt purchases or the Nemesis Nyx skin which both have issues with cosmetics.  Shoulder armour sticks out too far if using Mesa Noble on Mag or Valkyr and chest arnour sinks into Nyx's chest.  They move to correct position when walking but then go weird when standing still on the liset.  If these issues didn't stand in the way before why are they valid excuses now?

 

Because those are two skins - maybe more, but all in all they've already got a fairly simple layout to them, and plenty of concept are already in place to show what they look like and how hint to how they should be mapped onto the current frame body. What your suggesting will require large amounts of conceptualizing and work to put into effect, all of which would have to be done FROM SCRATCH.

 

Plus, it's also a simple matter of the fact that: they don't want to.

 

To be a TRULY accurate representation of Nemesis from Dark Sector, Nyx would have needed to become male, and have the types of physical changes to her silhouette that your gender swaps would. But what did we get? We got her with still both her arms and in a VERY more feminine body than he is in Dark Sector - yeah, say what you will about Nadia being the one inside the suit, but the Nemesis itself was VERY much male in appearance, that's kinda the whole point of that twist: to not even hint that Nadia might be within the suit through its physical form.

 

Cut to the warframe Nemesis skin, sure it's got a altered helmet, a little tail thing, but it is still a MUCH more feminine form than Nemesis from Dark Sector. Why? Because that maps onto the ALREADY EXISTING female Nyx.

 

To alter the current Warframe genders means you have to remap ALL of those current textures, all of those designs onto a new base mesh, and as someone who's looked into 3D modeling and texture design, I can tell you that's not as easy as it looks. You need to be pretty spot-on with the skin you're going to put onto the 3D mesh or else it'll clip over itself, do all sorts of weird things, and generally just look UGLY.

 

So, you have to go in and edit the 3D mesh, you have to go in and remake the entire skin to fit over the new 3D mesh - plus do this for ALL skins that Warframe currently has (immortal and the like) - and then you have to go through and manually fit all of the armor pieces and weapon settings onto gender-swapped skins manually, as is their way.

 

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR 20+ FRAMES!

 

The Proto-skins come out once a year, that's not a problem. This? This would eat up SO much time we wouldn't see U17 'til the END OF NEXT YEAR. If EVEN that early!

 

While doing it for every frame would be a large task, I think it would be easier than you suggest to do it for the first 8 frames.  Why?  Because we already know that some of the work was done.  Allowing us to use Excalibur and Nyx bodies with each other shouldn't be any more difficult than the animations we can already swap.  We know there is a male Ember body as it was used in early promotional material.  We know work began on a female Ash design as the picture is already in this thread.  We know there was a male Mag started.  Might not be much, but it was started.  Also, I'm pretty sure the Nemesis Nyx model is not the same as the Nyx model with a new skin over it.  It's not like an Immortal skin, it's mapped to a new model.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Katinka

[VampirePirate]

Bottom line is, DE does not (for whatever reason they have) want to make gender variants.  That's a fact that's not going to change.

 

There's no real reason for discussing this further.   Now if they decide to change up and actually make this a reality, that's a different story.

[Morec0]

While doing it for every frame would be a large task, I think it would be easier than you suggest to do it for the first 8 frames.  Why?  Because we already know that some of the work was done.  Allowing us to use Excalibur and Nyx bodies with each other shouldn't be any more difficult than the animations we can already swap.  We know there is a male Ember body as it was used in early promotional material.  We know work began on a female Ash design as the picture is already in this thread.  We know there was a male Mag started.  Might not be much, but it was started.  Also, I'm pretty sure the Nemesis Nyx model is not the same as the Nyx model with a new skin over it.  It's not like an Immortal skin, it's mapped to a new model.

 

But then you set a precedent, and then you have people whining and complaining and crying about "where's my male Zephyr" (which will cause even MORE havoc if it's not exactly like the original concept, and no one wants a repeat of that) or "where's my female Chroma". And that would then mean more time would have to go into making these skins over other content to try and keep them - and us, the other forum-goers - from having to deal with the threads demanding that endlessly, and we all know they WILL come.

 

It would be the Trinity Immortal Skin problem there once was, turned up to 11.

 

As for the Nyx Skin, there are slight changes made, but all in all it's still much more the Nyx body than it is the Nemesis body or any other body.

 

In the end, it all comes down to exactly what I and others have said:

 

Bottom line is, DE does not (for whatever reason they have) want to make gender variants.  That's a fact that's not going to change.

 

There's no real reason for discussing this further.   Now if they decide to change up and actually make this a reality, that's a different story.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Morec0

[Hisophonic]

You know.. i tried to imagine a Female Chroma..

I kinda regret it.

[Katinka]

As for the Nyx Skin, there are slight changes made, but all in all it's still much more the Nyx body than it is the Nemesis body or any other body.

 

The point is that it's not the Nyx body or any other pre-existing body.  No matter how close it is to Nyx compared to anything else it is still not Nyx and is new.  Work was done to make it.  Just as much work as would be needed to make female Ash and more work than would be needed to make female Excalibur or male Ember.

 

Bottom line is, DE does not (for whatever reason they have) want to make gender variants.  That's a fact that's not going to change.

 

There's no real reason for discussing this further.   Now if they decide to change up and actually make this a reality, that's a different story.

 

Sadly this is true.  The only point to these threads is for those who think it'd be nice idea to continue saying 'Hey, remember us?  We still think that thing would be cool.  Y'know, just in case you've changed your mind.'

[SilentMobius]

To be a TRULY accurate representation of Nemesis from Dark Sector, Nyx would have needed to become male, and have the types of physical changes to her silhouette that your gender swaps would. But what did we get? We got her with still both her arms and in a VERY more feminine body than he is in Dark Sector - yeah, say what you will about Nadia being the one inside the suit, but the Nemesis itself was VERY much male in appearance, that's kinda the whole point of that twist: to not even hint that Nadia might be within the suit through its physical form.

 

Cut to the warframe Nemesis skin, sure it's got a altered helmet, a little tail thing, but it is still a MUCH more feminine form than Nemesis from Dark Sector. Why? Because that maps onto the ALREADY EXISTING female Nyx.

 

While I agree that alternate gender Warframe would require a resculpt and as DE said if they are doing a sculpt they would rather make a new Warframe, I need to take issues with this statement from a technical perspective.

 

The Nemesis Nyx "Skin" is a full remesh, there is nothing of the Warframe Nyx to that model, It was not "mapped" to Nyx at all. Why DE put in the work to make the Dark Sector Model Female, I do not know, (It's possible they had already made a female version during the development of DS, maybe they only decided to make the suit look male later on, I don't know) It's possible that the DS normal and detail maps were reused (Obviously tint maps were made but that is really easy to do) EDIT: I'm convinced the normal and diffuse maps are identical, which means the mesh is simply a slightly deformed DS mesh, not a natural "female" Warframe mesh.

 

To be honest, I think all that really happened was that the proportions were adjusted slightly (Pull in waist, enlarge helmet, copy paste non-blade arm) and the "pockets" were added for pistols to attach to.

Edited May 17, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Damuranashi]

Oh man this again.

[Cubewano]

Bottom line is, DE does not (for whatever reason they have) want to make gender variants.  That's a fact that's not going to change.

 

There's no real reason for discussing this further.   Now if they decide to change up and actually make this a reality, that's a different story.

It is by no means factual that alternate genders for frames will never be a thing, heck it was even mentioned in streams before that perhaps in the future it could become a thing if that's the direction they went. It was planned to be a thing at the start, but one of the developers (steve i think??) didn't agree with it because it lessened the impact of each frame and made them less of a distinct character/thing, which is typical of a person used to making console games and not a mmo sort of thing, so it was halted. But then through the development the staffers realized more that they can't exactly treat an mmo the same as a normal non-multiplayer game, and that maybe the past logic was spotty and that perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to offer gender options, of course that hasn't arrived yet but who's to say it never can? It isn't like this game isn't all about constantly changing and adding on new things. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Cubewano

[Ded_man]

They should allow a choice between the gender type of the frame as it's only logical. It gives more appeal to the idea of the frame simply being a suit to the tenno wearing it. A knights armor does not reshape to its wearer, it is crafted to fit. Since we are constructing the suit in our foundry, it should be crafted to fit the wearers gender preference.

[Cubewano]

They should allow a choice between the gender type of the frame as it's only logical. It gives more appeal to the idea of the frame simply being a suit to the tenno wearing it. A knights armor does not reshape to its wearer, it is crafted to fit. Since we are constructing the suit in our foundry, it should be crafted to fit the wearers gender preference.

well we don't really know the shape of the tenno wearing the suits nor if gender preference is even a thing for them, so this logic doesn't really work for the situation. 

 

it's really more of an extra for us currently, which is by no means a wrong reason to provide it. players like for characters to be expressive of themselves, and I always sort of saw that as a strong point of mmo type games, they almost always provide character customization / creation options that allow a character to be your own, and it'd be nice for warframe to harness more of that. of course if they don't that's perfectly fine, at least warframe unlike most games with gender locks, has some potential lore related logic to it, but it certainly would be a pleasant option none the less. 

[arch111]

In all honesty, DE painted themselves into a corner when they locked a gender to a frame.

Why? Because once it was unsure if we were one or mono Tenno. Now we know we are one player wearing many suits.

That led to the genderswitching in the game, that still give ua headaches to make it an avtual Lore part of the game, and not a Game Mechanic.

If Steve went and said:

"Originally we wanted every warframe to be a unique Hero character. That meant a story and gender. But we realized that this led to a problem when we as Tenno change gender when we change from Excalibur to Nova.

To adress this, and to increase player choice and immersion, we will release an alternative model for all warframes starting with Excalibur, since honestly Nyx is very different from his powerset and will be remodelled into a more unique warframe.

This will finally allow players to determine who their Tenno is and put all the speculation and debate to rest."

It would be SO much simpler than explaining the switch. I suspect thats why we still don't know how it works. Because if done wrong it will be really bad and hurt the game.