Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[Sci_Ant]

Thats exactly my point. So if the new system was created with a huge part of that being to get players to address the content, then I dare say thats a huge waste of time and money and resources that could have been MUCH better spent fixing some bugs that need REAL attention. Realistically you can simply slide jump past everything even now. There really is no difference in ignoring enemies then, or now which only makes the concept of addressing content all the more absurd.

 

My friend, how is it absurd that they fixed glaring issues with Stamina bugging out on almost every movement interaction in the game from slide attacking to wall running? How is it absurd that they they gave us a completely controllable and customisable movement experience, while removing things that launched one into walls or any object, only for one to get stuck on them and then drop like a fly, then continue to do the same thing again and again?

[Faulcun]

My friend, how is it absurd that they fixed glaring issues with Stamina bugging out on almost every movement interaction in the game from slide attacking to wall running? How is it absurd that they they gave us a completely controllable and customisable movement experience, while removing things that launched one into walls or any object, only for one to get stuck on them and then drop like a fly, then continue to do the same thing again and again?

 

I didnt have as much trouble with that as other people. But my comment wasnt about that. Those are all reasonable goals. Let me clarify again.

 

Somebody suggested that a reason for this new system is so that players dont ignore content. I am suggesting that that argument is absurd because of the massive amount of other already available ways to ignore content, not short of which still being parkour regardless of the changes.

 

And to further that point, if it was a legit reason, then I would be supremely disappointed in the waste of resources and money to attempt something so futile when the entirety of the rest of the game is counter productive to that goal.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Faulcun

[StonedMakak]

You know what my real complaint is.... I think im just tired of being "punished" in this game, and others, because of other people's short comings. I will excel in whatever situation im given whether its this parkour or the old, or whatever else. I just feel like we're forced to wear floaties in a lazy river because god forbid anybody learns how to swim.

 

Maybe I enjoy driving my nascar car in a parking lot. Our only limits should be our own.

 

Hmm, I don't follow, this game has very low skill-ceiling, it's mostly a numbers game - you either have that maxed Serration and Fleeting or you don't. Ironically, a guy who tries to be ninja with parkour is gonna have a harder time than a guy who plays this game like CoD (indestructible cover FTW!). If you ask me, we've been in the lazy river for a long time now.

 

So, you don't like the fact that parkour became easier to use for everyone instead everyone becoming better to use a flawed, buggy system? Because you deemed it challenging in a game that lacks challenge by design? Strange for me, because I knew how to use the old parkour and never felt like doing something special. I could make it work well enough but it always felt like something taken from a much slower game than Warframe. If you played Splinter Cell series, that game had some pretty cool parkour/acrobatics that were fitting it's theme and pace, and they were sloooooow. The 1.0 was just too slow (sans copter, wallfling etc.), and it put combat in the back sit if you know what I mean, as in, combat and movement didn't flow together at all. 

 

See, I'm on the other end of the stick, so to speak. I think that simplicity and accessibility of the new system is it's greatest strength. It's easy to use, people use it. It used to be that a wallrun mid-combat could kill you or seriously screw up your S#&$, provided it didn't bug out and leave you hugging the wall. Now it's as natural as sprinting, even more so for me personally (looks aside, animators didn't bring their A-game to wallhop). The main focus of Warframe is combat, not parkour, hence it should supplement combat.

 

Titanfall for all of it's shortcomings had great parkour, it was intuitive, easy to get into and most importantly, "skill" didn't depend on knowing the kinks/complexity and little bugs/exploits of the system, it was all about getting creative with simple tools and using them perfectly and consistently, getting the most out of environment. 2.0 seems to follow the same general idea.

 

Limitations force you to get creative with what you can do. Pretty skillful if you ask me.

 

Speaking of Titanfall, they had the perfect wallrun - jump on the wall, do a fast run and then hop off. Here I agree with the naysayers that it would look/feel better. Link to gameplay trailer if anyone's interested

. The wallruns start around 1:00 mark.

 

 

And to further that point, if it was a legit reason, then I would be supremely disappointed in the waste of resources and money to attempt something so futile when the entirety of the rest of the game is counter productive to that goal.

 

Gotta start somewhere. 

[Justin_Case001]

I absolutely love parkour 2.0.  For the first time in WF history, I'm actually on board and excited about a change from the get-go.  Who'da thunk?  Most changes were good in the long run, but were annoying to get used to.  (Artifacts to auras, Liset UI, integrated frame abilities, etc.)  But wow, I'm instantly a fan of parkour 2.0.  Almost nothing bad to say about it.  It's amazing.  It's the bees knees, baby.  The only thing I miss is being able to tap the horizontal wall run and go shooting off across the map.  I loved being able to run up to a little box or something and just tap the wall run off of it and fly across the map.  But this is pretty much completely negated by the ballet jump.  That manuever is so amazing and so versatile, I quickly forgot about the old wall jump.  Removing stamina was a long time coming.  Thank goodness for that.  'Bout time.

[Faulcun]

 

Hmm, I don't follow, this game has very low skill-ceiling, it's mostly a numbers game - you either have that maxed Serration and Fleeting or you don't. Ironically, a guy who tries to be ninja with parkour is gonna have a harder time than a guy who plays this game like CoD (indestructible cover FTW!). If you ask me, we've been in the lazy river for a long time now.

 

So, you don't like the fact that parkour became easier to use for everyone instead everyone becoming better to use a flawed, buggy system? Because you deemed it challenging in a game that lacks challenge by design? Strange for me, because I knew how to use the old parkour and never felt like doing something special. I could make it work well enough but it always felt like something taken from a much slower game than Warframe. If you played Splinter Cell series, that game had some pretty cool parkour/acrobatics that were fitting it's theme and pace, and they were sloooooow. The 1.0 was just too slow (sans copter, wallfling etc.), and it put combat in the back sit if you know what I mean, as in, combat and movement didn't flow together at all. 

 

See, I'm on the other end of the stick, so to speak. I think that simplicity and accessibility of the new system is it's greatest strength. It's easy to use, people use it. It used to be that a wallrun mid-combat could kill you or seriously screw up your S#&$, provided it didn't bug out and leave you hugging the wall. Now it's as natural as sprinting, even more so for me personally (looks aside, animators didn't bring their A-game to wallhop). The main focus of Warframe is combat, not parkour, hence it should supplement combat.

 

Titanfall for all of it's shortcomings had great parkour, it was intuitive, easy to get into and most importantly, "skill" didn't depend on knowing the kinks/complexity and little bugs/exploits of the system, it was all about getting creative with simple tools and using them perfectly and consistently, getting the most out of environment. 2.0 seems to follow the same general idea.

 

Limitations force you to get creative with what you can do. Pretty skillful if you ask me.

 

Speaking of Titanfall, they had the perfect wallrun - jump on the wall, do a fast run and then hop off. Here I agree with the naysayers that it would look/feel better. Link to gameplay trailer if anyone's interested

. The wallruns start around 1:00 mark.

 

 

 

i agree, this game has a VERY low skill ceiling, and we've been on the lazy river for quite a few years. This is a problem that stems from something beyond the scope of warframe and DE. But it doesnt help when the developers contribute to the problem by coddling and pandering the children. Id hate to break it to you, but this new system only brings a new set of bugs and flaws. j

 

The A-game has been missing for many years by a great many development teams. They are all on a deadline and the only thing that concerns them is getting the product out to generate more revenue. And we as a playerbase accept that as the norm now. So when was it ok to pay extra for DLC on LAUNCH day.....  I mean we get crap because of a lack of testing, rushing, or whatever.... and we just roll over and say "ok, next time will be better".

 

Getting creative usually results in finding bugs and exploits... just like in the first system which people took advantage of and are now known to be unintended. How much of these tips and tricks for this new system are unintended too? Nothing has really changed here.

 

 

 

Gotta start somewhere. 

 

No matter what the justification here, the concept is still unfeasible. Even with just addressing powers, you would have to render them completely useless. You wouldnt be starting somewhere, you would have to START OVER. There is a HUGE difference between the two, which would cost so much time, money, and resources.... it therefore still makes that goal absurd.

[HurpadurpusRex]

After the initial wave of actual feedback (be it positive of negative) this thread predictably devolved into whine-fest, but this takes the cake. Like, have you stopped to think about the point you made? What you are saying contradicts itself. If the old system was more complex and skill-oriented than the new one then naturally any half decent player will be just as good, if not better, with the simpler version. They might miss the complexity of the old system, but do significantly worse? By your own admission it's simpler and easier to use and allows bad players to do better, how is a skilled player doing worse all of a sudden? It's like saying that a professional NASCAR racer can't drive a normal car. Pure nonsense. 

 

Unless we're talking about a "skilled" player who grew accustomed to a mechanic so much that it became a crutch for him, and now he is unable to adapt. Incidentally, that makes him the opposite of skilled. 

Because it raised the skill floor and lowered the skill celing. Its not a hard concept to grasp that hes talking about, stop trying not to grasp it so hard.

Edited August 16, 2015 by HurpadurpusRex

[StonedMakak]

 

i agree, this game has a VERY low skill ceiling, and we've been on the lazy river for quite a few years. This is a problem that stems from something beyond the scope of warframe and DE. But it doesnt help when the developers contribute to the problem by coddling and pandering the children. Id hate to break it to you, but this new system only brings a new set of bugs and flaws. j

 

The A-game has been missing for many years by a great many development teams. They are all on a deadline and the only thing that concerns them is getting the product out to generate more revenue. And we as a playerbase accept that as the norm now. So when was it ok to pay extra for DLC on LAUNCH day.....  I mean we get crap because of a lack of testing, rushing, or whatever.... and we just roll over and say "ok, next time will be better".

 

Getting creative usually results in finding bugs and exploits... just like in the first system which people took advantage of and are now known to be unintended. How much of these tips and tricks for this new system are unintended too? Nothing has really changed here.

 

 

 

No matter what the justification here, the concept is still unfeasible. Even with just addressing powers, you would have to render them completely useless. You wouldnt be starting somewhere, you would have to START OVER. There is a HUGE difference between the two, which would cost so much time, money, and resources.... it therefore still makes that goal absurd.

 

 

You don't have to break anything to me, I know it does. I see that you have much higher expectations of Warframe than me, that seems to be the crux of our disagreement. Still, thanks for being civil with that.   

 

Because it raised the skill floor and lowered the skill celing. Its not a hard concept to grasp that hes talking about, stop trying not to grasp it so hard.

 

Skill-ceiling was 10 inches above the floor. Now it's around 8. Coptering was laughably easy, Directional melee was laughably easy, the only thing that required some skill was chaining wall-flings, and even that was easy. No other parkour move was worth doing in actual gameplay, apart form a handful of designated areas that could have been bypassed with the aforementioned tools. Wanna pretend we went from the complexity of chess to playing hide&seek with 5 year olds, be my guest. Doesn't make it true. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by tisdfogg

[HurpadurpusRex]

The devs and many users felt it not only looked silly, but that it was also quite impractical.

 

Let's make something clear, coptering and aerial slashes were not part of the previous iteration of parkour, the only reason we could achieve insane speeds before was because of bugs. They were welcome bugs for a while, but they were unintended.

Parkour 2.0 is completely intended (except air-glide-sliding probably) and the game can now properly work with it. It is still fast and there are people who are good and people who are bad at making the most out of it, just like with any other system.

 

And those introduced with the game. Maybe the devs decided zooming past a whole tile at MACH 4 without even looking at the enemies kind of went against their intentions.

I bet if we both had all the time in the world we could both find plenty of live streams where they talked for and against coptering. We dont know what they like. We don't know them. They aren't a hive mind. Even if they didn't like it and were forced to do it just to sell movment slot unlocks and forma blueprints by the 58% chinese owned partner would they publicly admit it? If they didn't like it for any other reason would they bother publicly advertising they don't like the thing they are making? Possible, but i wouldn't call it probable.

Many users feel parkour 2.0 looks impractical by the same logic you have used it should also not exist.

 

Those bugs in later updates were given coded speed values and their own integers. They were systemized movment for nearly a year now. Thats why some weapons coptered further than others, or swung you further than others. Also how wall launches were reduced in speed, and how less momentum could be built in later renditions of warframe. They patched those systems.They were used for navigating obstacles in the enviroment and for movment. Their existence since near hotfix 8.1.3 (where they were adjusting slide timers) has been intentional. Maps have been made to recieve chain jumps that are only possible in the old system.

They do not intend you to fall off surfaces you would not have in prior implements of wall running. They stated the hop animation was designed to hurdle inconsistencys in the wall textures. Best case senario when you hit a small pipe running across a wall is you run up it. Mostly you just hit it and fall. The system is rank with glitches. All of them unintended, and sadly none of them have the benifit of being useful.

Edited August 16, 2015 by HurpadurpusRex

[HurpadurpusRex]

Its been mentioned but I want to say it myself as well. Can we get a poll on the new systems for players to vote in? Idealy for rank 10+ as they would have likely and largely been able to experience both systems properly.

Or whatever ranking deemed apropriate as DE has access to actual stats since patch release.

[Faulcun]

 

 

 

 

You don't have to break anything to me, I know it does. I see that you have much higher expectations of Warframe than me, that seems to be the crux of our disagreement. Still, thanks for being civil with that.   

 

 

Skill-ceiling was 10 inches above the floor. Now it's around 8. Coptering was laughably easy, Directional melee was laughably easy, the only thing that required some skill was chaining wall-flings, and even that was easy. No other parkour move was worth doing in actual gameplay, apart form a handful of designated areas that could have been bypassed with the aforementioned tools. Wanna pretend we went from the complexity of chess to playing hide&seek with 5 year olds, be my guest. Doesn't make it true. 

 

 

Well yes, I agree I more than likely do have higher expectations. But I wonder why that is... Is it because I grew up with standards that were much higher 16 years ago? I see you mentioning CS:GO. I was in competitive gaming when the original Counter Strike was merely a mod for half life before valve bought the creators. I can tell you right now that games like COD, battlefield, titan fall, and halo (I acknowledge SOME of them are decent games) have destroyed the gaming industry.

 

The problem is companies like EA have beaten down the industry so hard, this new generation of gamers dont know any better when they are served crap on a silver plate. Notice how we dont have demos for games anymore. Now you have to pay for something in some way to access a beta, if even that. Before, your demo had to be GOOD, or people wouldnt buy your product. Now thats gone, and the same bugs and crap that you see in the beta is still in the final product. GAME BREAKING stuff. And now we pay for pre-orders for expensive DLC... BEFORE THE GAME IS RELEASED!!!! How does that make any sense? To top it off... its still a disaster at launch, the game flops, and the consumer is still out $100.  Colonial marines, avp 2010, Mortal kombat x, sims online, half the cod games, BF4.... i mean the lists go on and on..

 

So now, when things are released, the "acceptable amount of error" has dropped so low, its hilarious. its all about "is it good enough to ship, and make money from it". Arguably, in most cases, it shouldnt be.

 

So yeah, my expectations are higher because I came from an era of higher expectations. Have you shared similar experiences?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Faulcun

[Sci_Ant]

Colonial marines, avp 2010, Mortal kombat x, sims online, half the cod games, BF4.... i mean the lists go on and on..

 

So yeah, my expectations are higher because I came from an era of higher expectations. Have you shared similar experiences?

 

And don't forget Batman Arkham Knight on the PC. Ugh. They still haven't relaunched that one. XD

 

I agree completely with what you are saying here, but since I have also played those games you mentioned (maybe not so many years ago but still) I feel that the quality of this game in comparison with those titles from EA or any other paid title, is far ahead of the curve when it comes to overall player satisfaction and taking player feedback and improving the game based on that.

 

I haven't forayed much into online gaming other than CS, Crysis 2 MP, Mass Effect 3 MP, Source Deathmatch, HAWKEN and maybe I tried TF2 and L4D once, so I can't claim to be very experienced with the online gaming industry, but I still feel Warframe is the best online game as of today, in the Sci-fi and TPS genre.

 

How do you feel that Warframe is like or becoming like those games you mentioned?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[StonedMakak]

Well yes, I agree I more than likely do have higher expectations. But I wonder why that is... Is it because I grew up with standards that were much higher 16 years ago? I see you mentioning CS:GO. I was in competitive gaming when the original Counter Strike was merely a mod for half life before valve bought the creators. I can tell you right now that games like COD, battlefield, titan fall, and halo (I acknowledge SOME of them are decent games) have destroyed the gaming industry.

 

The problem is companies like EA have beaten down the industry so hard, this new generation of gamers dont know any better when they are served crap on a silver plate. Notice how we dont have demos for games anymore. Now you have to pay for something in some way to access a beta, if even that. Before, your demo had to be GOOD, or people wouldnt buy your product. Now thats gone, and the same bugs and crap that you see in the beta is still in the final product. GAME BREAKING stuff. And now we pay for pre-orders for expensive DLC... BEFORE THE GAME IS RELEASED!!!! How does that make any sense? To top it off... its still a disaster at launch, the game flops, and the consumer is still out $100.  Colonial marines, avp 2010, Mortal kombat x, sims online, half the cod games, BF4.... i mean the lists go on and on..

 

So now, when things are released, the "acceptable amount of error" has dropped so low, its hilarious. its all about "is it good enough to ship, and make money from it". Arguably, in most cases, it shouldnt be.

 

So yeah, my expectations are higher because I came from an era of higher expectations. Have you shared similar experiences?

 

You could say that I do have similar experiences. Speaking of demos, I remember playing the Baldur's Gate 2 demo as a kid, over and over again. Got it from a gaming magazine, those were the times... Anyway, I see your point. Back in the day, more games were passion projects in small studios, today corporations set the rules, and for them it's all about the fluff, not the meat. Although we should factor nostalgia into it too, I suppose. But I agree with what you say. By the way, I was more of a Enemy Territory kinda a guy.  

 

Thanks, now I feel old :/.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[Liminal]

Somebody suggested that a reason for this new system is so that players dont ignore content. I am suggesting that that argument is absurd because of the massive amount of other already available ways to ignore content, not short of which still being parkour regardless of the changes.

Yet you ignored the fact that I mentioned "content" isn't only enemies. Now the movement system the devs built is used to traverse the environments, unlike the previous one, and there are mods that tie into it (and you can jump on enemies for procs and impulse). I wouldn't be surprised if new tiles make even more use of it.

 

I myself have done 24 seconds by skipping the pillars with the new system. I have also managed 28.03 with Loki with a full legit run through the course without skipping anything with the OLD system. Everybody wants to skip as much as possible with the new system, which is understandable. They are testing the limits. However ive yet to see a legit run that addresses each section of the course yet. Im curious to see what youve found.

So skipping parts of it isn't legit? Then I'd dare to say the new systems is just as fast as the old one, without "wall flinging", since it would constitute skipping something surely.

In addition to that the new system removed auto rolls and stamina (which was a limiting factor before) so, if we are leaving skipping parts of the course aside (despite the fact that almost everyone would take shortcuts during regular gameplay) ... speed is not really that different now, is it? And getting a low time surely requires the same amount of skill as it did before.

[Kefirno]

This is not «new parkour», this is «no more parkour». Removing stamina is the only good idea here.

Killing parkour was very insulting action towards best part of Warframe's community: players who played Warframe aesthetically, guys who were turning autistic farm into the art of elegant speedrunning. But now we are all limited to the same low speed.

Warframe is slow and boring now, RIP, uninstall. I regret about my money wasted on this game so much. It's even worse than preorder of Alien Colonial Marines.

[Sci_Ant]

PSA : There is a small quirk in Aim Gliding where if you press and hold the Sprint/Roll key and the W (forward) key while in an Aim glide it will allow you to 'Float Glide' and not zoom in with the weapon. Some weapons can be shot with without zooming in, but most weapons will zoom in again, if shot. This also works with Snipers.

 

This may not be a great solution, but it's something for those who don't like to Zoom in while Aim Gliding.

 

EDIT: Snipers won't aim in at all, even for that split second, when you do a Roll while in the air and then hold Sprint/Roll and W while also holding Aim.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Faulcun]

Yet you ignored the fact that I mentioned "content" isn't only enemies. Now the movement system the devs built is used to traverse the environments, unlike the previous one, and there are mods that tie into it (and you can jump on enemies for procs and impulse). I wouldn't be surprised if new tiles make even more use of it.

 

So skipping parts of it isn't legit? Then I'd dare to say the new systems is just as fast as the old one, without "wall flinging", since it would constitute skipping something surely.

In addition to that the new system removed auto rolls and stamina (which was a limiting factor before) so, if we are leaving skipping parts of the course aside (despite the fact that almost everyone would take shortcuts during regular gameplay) ... speed is not really that different now, is it? And getting a low time surely requires the same amount of skill as it did before.

 

Because apples to apples. There are far less options in an actual tileset to skip something than there are in the course. If everything was played in an open void, then sure. But its not. Most of the tiles still require you to follow a predetermined path regardless of how far or high you can jump. So in order to compare properly, then you must still follow the predetermined path in the course too.

[Faulcun]

And don't forget Batman Arkham Knight on the PC. Ugh. They still haven't relaunched that one. XD

I agree completely with what you are saying here, but since I have also played those games you mentioned (maybe not so many years ago but still) I feel that the quality of this game in comparison with those titles from EA or any other paid title, is far ahead of the curve when it comes to overall player satisfaction and taking player feedback and improving the game based on that.

I haven't forayed much into online gaming other than CS, Crysis 2 MP, Mass Effect 3 MP, Source Deathmatch, HAWKEN and maybe I tried TF2 and L4D once, so I can't claim to be very experienced with the online gaming industry, but I still feel Warframe is the best online game as of today, in the Sci-fi and TPS genre.

How do you feel that Warframe is like or becoming like those games you mentioned?

It isnt ahead of the curve... It IS the curve. It is literally apart of the business model. Without player satisfaction, there is no income and the game dies. I have no issue with this. However, in this process, you have one problem feeding off and into itself. Its like using a battery to operate a motor to operate a generator to recharge the battery. The generator cannot output what is required to operate. What we've done is delay the process of running on a pure battery. But we've just delayed the inevitable. Eventually the battery will die, and everything stops.

DE has just opened the chinese market. There arent any significant cans left to open. And im sure you've noticed some blatant choices to focus more on quantity rather than quality. However, ill admit that U17 wasnt nearly as bad as some of the others. But today's generation of players are greedy and see nothing past their own instant gratification. Ultimately they will destroy themselves if allowed to. I believe the bulk of the suggested player satisfaction is derived from feeding their instant gratification.

Now this is purely my own opinion. But I feel like DE has broken great ground with their product. They have created a new path for companies to take.... and its something that companies like EA could never reproduce. But thats it..... i feel like instead of setting an example how a game can really be developed, they've only shown other companies how to make money off of this new generation's greed and self entitled nature.

Im actually excited about the way EPIC is developing the new unreal tournament. Google it and check it out. THAT is setting an example!

Aside from all that, your question to me is difficult to answer without using specific examples of events that have taken place and how they were handled that I have witnessed or been involved in. Anywhere from buggy servers and resulting support tickets (which i have lost actual players from), to toxicity in this community not limited to situations involving Eclipse, the abandonment of dark sectors, and even now the closure of Crescent Moon. I could list a dozen examples, all of which details dont belong in this thread. What I can say is these events and experiences have done nothing but provide more disappointment resulting in less faith. I have purchased a founder's pack because I saw potential. I have yet to spend another penny since until my faith is restored. At this point, perhaps its possible, perhaps not. Edited August 17, 2015 by Faulcun

[NickBoay]

my laundry list:

 

- add stick to ceiling (like tenchu just without falling off, and adding stealth or w/e would be nice to else ud get swapped off the ceiling in a sec by npc's with magic eyes

 

- abilities usable on zip lines , oyeah also fix those few broken zip lines in phobos , not sure if there are more.

[Sci_Ant]

-snip-

 

Thanks for that response! It might take me more experience to understand but I do certainly get the gist of what you mean. I'm still ready to give some leeway to DE for the way they're handling the progress of this game, there are mistakes in their methods but not as many as so many other gaming companies, so I feel DE is ahead of them in that way.

 

Anyway, since this topic pertains more to the bigger picture and not to the topic at hand, I guess we should leave it at that. :)

[Revel72]

Parkour 2.0 has had been big "Git gud" thing to me in game. In case of parkour challenges of Void and spy vaults. Also just in overall in the game.

[Liminal]

Because apples to apples. There are far less options in an actual tileset to skip something than there are in the course. If everything was played in an open void, then sure. But its not. Most of the tiles still require you to follow a predetermined path regardless of how far or high you can jump. So in order to compare properly, then you must still follow the predetermined path in the course too.

Apart from some spy missions, almost every tile has stuff you can skip, and in many cases the things you jump past are the size of an obstacle from the course. Sure, not every tile has that much to bypass, but that's because tiles are smaller and often not positioned in a way that makes you fully traverse them.

In a full mission you will normally skip a lot more than 4 areas.

 

Anyway, I don't even know what the argument is anymore. I only remember it starting with something about lowering the skill ceiling.

[Zybeer]

I like most of the new changes. Mostly miss the aesthetics of doing frontflips instead of bulletjumps. Moving mobility away from certain weapons and giving it to 'frames directly (although not as much) feels quite good. Had no big issues with 'coptering before, though.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

I'll mention the removal of zoom when AimGliding once again, but now, that I'm back in the game again...

This game feels sluggish.

 

I'm not even comparing it to old coptering, moving around the map in Warframe just feels slow and heavy but without any momentum.

 

This game feels sluggish when compared to a damn Battlefield 4 or Witcher 3 (and Witcher 3 has really wonky movement controls but at least running feels rather fast).

 

Running and sprinting around is terribly slow, bulletjumps are inconsistent in distance travelled, AimGlide zooms in and lowers sensitivity unnecessarily.

 

 

On top of that, wallhop is limited to strict vertical or horizontal movement, without the ability to smoothly transition between two (diagonal movements on walls).

 

 

Either buff all Warframes speed by ~50% or get some work in "feel fast" department (delayed camera like archwing boost, increased fovs and whatnot).

Edited August 18, 2015 by Mofixil

[Wakeoflove]

I would personally recommend sprint moved to space, left-ctrl to jump and shift to crouch. You can easily press all three or any combination with your pinkie or thumb. The new system still sucks massive balls but at least you can spaz-move by mashing those three easy buttons.

 

 

I dunno. Since I started playing Warframe, I've bound C as an extra button for Hold to Crouch and it works seamlessly since the end of my thumb is on C and the first joint in my thumb is on space. So I just push downwards while pulling my thumb slightly backwards and it always put me into a sliding jump, with Shift as Sprint.

 

Now it always puts me into a Bullet Jump when I want, so nothing much has changed. I automatically hit Crouch before Jump as I always have, now I just don't need to worry about Sprinting too. Seems like less buttons to me.

Actually, I just played around some more and I think I found some bindings that work for me. I moved the "item popup" i.e. "the gear wheel" to ctrl and moved crouch to q so I can tap that for bullet jumps and kept v as the crouch toggle, so now everything seems to be working quite nicely at the moment, now my only problem is that I have discovered that aimglide turns off toggled on sprint, so if that gets fixed, I think I"m good to go... for now... with the exception that I do agree this new wall hop seems more difficult for me to control than the old wall run. My frame seems rather eager to get off the wall and it's quite annoying, I really would have preferred that "living on the walls" wall run they demoed for parkour 2.0, at this point I think that really is my only disappointment in parkour 2.0

[Wakeoflove]

Change from wall hop forward to hop up is too sudden. 

 

I expect as a mobility thing to be able to just point up or down to go slanted in the wall and t ochange back and forth between those two as many times as I want. It seems to lose connection to the wall too easily. 

 

It does not seem to work well (or at all?) in changing the diagonality of the wallhopping depending on mouse/camera vertical angle. I feel it should, or should be more noticeable. 

This, I find myself suddenly jumping up the wall instead of going at an angle or anything like that, and in particular, and it may only really be an issue in the dojo, though I encountered something similar in the new tyl tileset, if I encounter a protrusion, not some odd wonky thing but like the walls in the dojo that are uneven in that the middle section is separated from the main wall by about 2 feet of "mini wall," the hop wants to send me up that 2 foot section instead of intuitively letting me navigate around/past it, it lets me hop from the extension to the normal wall fine enough, it's just that getting onto that protrusion from the wall proper that has difficulties. In tyl's tileset it was some sort of pipe/support beam looking thing that I was hoping I would just hop around in some ninja way that was basically a dead stop. So I'm not quite sure how this new parkour actually navigates uneven terrain better than the "on a track" version.