Proposed Multishot Change Mentioned In Devstream 59 [Megathread]

[saltygr33n]

I feel it's not really just the community though.

 

We wanted an extra mod slot where we could use to put augment mod, DE gave us an extra slot........ but wait............. It's not for augment, it's for a diversity build to help improve our mobility and such..... Maybe in time they'll finally add another slot, but, honestly......... I only feel disappointment as to where warframe is headed, as they add new features or content into the game.

 

They're just my opinions and thoughts, not facts.

[ranks21]

all these whining started when a few newbs didnt understand the games mechanics and how stuff worked so here we are today with a never ending cycle of back and forth nerf rebuff/ balancing/ qol bs with no end and the original whiners have long moved on but the followers are still around spreading the disease.. tsk tsk. what a shame.

Edited September 9, 2015 by ranks21

[Mac2492]

To those who suggest "buffing all other mods to be just as viable", please give concrete examples. Name some underpowered mods and how you would adjust them in such a way that you would trade base damage, elemental damage, or multishot for them. I understand that this sounds nice, but it's simply not a solution.

 

1) Even if you made the status chance mod 200% status chance for 0 capacity, you STILL wouldn't use it over damage mods. There is no amount of (reasonable) balancing that can bring other mods up to par with these mods because doubling your damage/shots will always be superior.

 

2) Raising the power level of mods that are already balanced to match overly powerful mods is absurd. We don't need more power. We need a better power curve, and we need enemies that suit this better power curve.

 

I understand that feels better to gain than to lose, and also that DE tends to overreact when addressing overly powerful weapons/abilities, but realize that the goal here is to smooth out the game. This can be accomplished by leveling the mountains or filling in the valleys. If you want to do the latter here you'll need a hell of a lot of dirt.

 

 

Well I already changed my mind, reading that now sounds stupid.
I changed my opinion after playing a lot of Archwing and realized we don't need a lot of damage mods because we don't need to fight against lvl 70 enemies to have fun, Caelus is a lvl 30 mission and even that is challenging, because we dont do 30K damage per second( except Velocitus but it has his downsides) we dont need a 90% multishot or a 165% damage bonus to enjoy play the game.

Now I am thinking it will be a welcome change, just curious to see how DE will handle it.

Now imagine this change paired with reduced enemy scaling, increased base weapon damage, the removal of base damage mods, and elemental mods tweaked to convert damage rather than add it. It's not perfect but right now people feel like they need multishot to keep up (and since it doubles damage, they kind of do).

 

If they only make enemies weaker, our weapons will be far too powerful. If they only nerf multishot, enemies will be far too powerful. They did start on the end that has more potential to make the game harder/tedious rather than easier/trivial, but at least they started somewhere.

 

Not so much looking forward to the multishot nerf as I am what it will almost surely lead to. People like to criticize DE for "bandaid" fixes but then they go and suggest equally narrow solutions. It's not just enemy scaling. It's not just multishot. It's not just press 4. All these little problems build on each other. You can't fix the game just by correcting any single mechanic, problem, or bug. No real life problem is that simple. Sometimes you need to knock down a few walls before you can truly renovate your home.

[DJ_Redwire]

And to my fellow Tenno, stop complaining about everything.

 

You first.

[Campaigner]

Nerf Multishot, change the optimal build for most weapons= more forma grinding and some new "best" build will simply replace the old one. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by Campaigner

[Archistopheles]

First off: The proposed multishot change would not lower damage, nor remove multishot as a required mod, it would simply nerf our ammo. It doesn't fix the problem, it just moves it.

 

Second: Scott n team know they gotta rework the whole system if they go after multishot. I remain confident as their recent reworks have all been spot-on.

[gizol333]

There will always be combination of mods which will be better than others possible combinations. People will always want to play more efficiently, because they want to do things faster. If you could kill more enemies faster because you are using specific combination of mods, would you not start to think that playing with a weaker combination is less profitable ? Changing multishot, serration or anything that is "mandatory" will not improve current situation with "Mandatory mods". People will always find a replacement.

 

Also, saying that multishot not using additional ammo was a bug for 2 years is cheap as hell. It is like Doctor is telling patient that he/she knew about cancer for past two years but he/she didn't said or do anything about it, because he/she didn't thought it was important.

[-Ozymandias-]

You first.

how is this a complaint

[-Ozymandias-]

Nerf Multishot, change the optimal build for most weapons= more forma grinding and some new "best" build will simply replace the old one. 

this exactly

 

complaints were about no build diversity

but when mogamu or some other youtuber comes up with a new "the best build" then everyone is going to use said build

bye bye diversity

[-skimmer-]

it will be fun when they finally decide to review serration

[Apocalypse_Later]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

[-Ozymandias-]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

thank you sir

[EetNotErn]

Do we need yet another multi-shot whine thread? 

[Chaosdreamer]

Wait ... 

 

To DE, i do not agree with this whole rework because 

 

then 

 

And to my fellow Tenno, stop complaining about everything.

 

But you also said : So guys...remember that time when you complained about "mandatory" mods?

Well it seems you don't like the idea of multishot getting a rework huh?

 

 you need to apply to yourself before posting stuff like that you know bro?

[Kuestenjung]

how is this a complaint

 

Metacomplaint. You are actually complaining about people that are complaining.

 

You all should just sit back and see what will happen, cause they can´t change the ammo efficency of multishot easily.

 

 

Do we need yet another multi-shot whine thread? 

 

Then stop bumping such threads with your post.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Kuestenjung

[Mac2492]

There will always be combination of mods which will be better than others possible combinations. People will always want to play more efficiently, because they want to do things faster. If you could kill more enemies faster because you are using specific combination of mods, would you not start to think that playing with a weaker combination is less profitable ? Changing multishot, serration or anything that is "mandatory" will not improve current situation with "Mandatory mods". People will always find a replacement.

 

Also, saying that multishot not using additional ammo was a bug for 2 years is cheap as hell. It is like Doctor is telling patient that he/she knew about cancer for past two years but he/she didn't said or do anything about it, because he/she didn't thought it was important.

People will always min-max, yes. The problem is not so much that damage mods are optimal, but moreso how much more optimal they are. Think about how much you can improve your effective DPS by using mods that aren't base damage, elemental damage, or multishot. Without question, a good combination of mods will make your weapon *much* more effective. But can you make your weapon more 8x more effective with zero downside? No.

 

Fire rate and reload rate decrease ammo efficiency. Ammo mods improve sustained damage by provide nothing to burst. Zoom and recoil mods are pure utility. Corrupted mods have inherent penalties. Status and crit are luck-based, and 100% builds typically require several mods to function effectively. There is a push and pull going on with all these utility mods, even ones that increase DPS.

 

In the end, people will find the "best mods" for specific weapons but right now these builds are completely uninteresting. Give me any rifle in the game and I can tell you half the optimal build. Serration, Split Chamber, two elements. Now try the same exercise without using Serration, Split Chamber, or elemental mods. You'd say "it depends on the weapon". This is an improvement.

 

Pure damage is the most important stat in a game that revolves around damage. Doubling damage is, for the most part, always superior to doubling any other stat. This is why damage without drawback should not be pitted against utility.

 

You're right. The meta will shift. But every weapon will have different optimal builds because each weapon has different characteristics.

Right now, optimal builds are completely stale because every weapon needs damage.

 

I'm impartial on the "multishot was a bug" debate because it distracts people from the actual issue.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Mac2492

[Mak_Gohae]

are you sure that the people that cry "nerf" are the same people that cry "don't nerf"?

 

This is something some people dont seem to understand.

The people here posting dont all agree 100% with everything.

One group throws an idea they like but guess what? Only a certain number of people like it and when DE picks it up then you will see the group of folks that didnt like it become more visible.

 

There were people that were fine with old Ex but the people complaining got heard, on top of DE not being able to nerf him properly, so one group got their wish but the other, of course, didnt.

[Buzkyl]

 

Well it certainly does appear the forum is getting what we've always wanted. Even if multishot it nerfed it is going to lead into  a much deeper change regarding weapon levels and our current mandatory mods, i.e serration/elemental mods.

 

 

Should also note how he said it's going to be a nuke, likely a 3.0 of our damage system.

[Hypernaut1]

It would be nice if mods could start getting aggressive with merging these multi-shot whine threads.

[Lykaios_Xenidis]

we can complain... or we can just wait until theres som REAL info on the matter and then discuss how it's good or bad for the game. Oh wait it's easier open a million threads preaching about how the lastest change that we have almost no info of will completely and utterly destroy the game forever.

[Valiant]

 

Well it certainly does appear the forum is getting what we've always wanted. Even if multishot it nerfed it is going to lead into  a much deeper change regarding weapon levels and our current mandatory mods, i.e serration/elemental mods.

 

 

Should also note how he said it's going to be a nuke, likely a 3.0 of our damage system.

I'm kind of glad.

 

I wasn't wholly impressed with damage 2.0 as it borked a lot of things and ruined stats for a few weapons in my opinion.

 

Though this should really be going hand in hand with a rework of how the enemies scale and operate. Furthermore a proper armour 2.0 would be nice, to give it more of an effect in game.

 

It's nice that they seem to be taking feedback on board but the question is how much and what are they actually going to do? Little or big, think I'd prefer the latter just for something more groundbreaking and 'beta' like.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Naith

[Deshiel]

Turns out it was just another multi shot thread in disguise.

[Feallike]

DAMAGE 3.0 HYPE!

 

ENEMY SCALING 2.0 HYPE

 

#nerftheTenno

[EetNotErn]

 

Then stop bumping such threads with your post.

 

Except that the OP disguised his multishot whine thread with the topic name. I have every right to point out that he's spamming the forums with repeat threads. Your statement is just plain asinine.

[jfhsanseiIII]

To be honest things like multi shot, heavy caliber, pressure point, and so on are part of the problem. If we remove all of the excess damage and energy reduction mods, balance the weapon and frame abilities, and make more interesting active and challenging enemies then all our problems will be solved. All those mods could easily be changed into something that would alter the performance or function of a weapon like Ruinous Extension. It doesn't necessarily increase the damage of the weapon but it does give it more damage potential or functionality.