What's The Point Of Sword And Shield Weapons If Their Blocking % Is No Higher Than That Of Other Melee Weapons?

[Caernarvon]

Right now sword and board weapons sit at 85% damage reduction, the same as that of Nikanas, Hammers, Machetes, Scythes and several others.

Gameplay and theme-wise, it makes no damn sense. Either their % needs to be raised, or they need to be given some other perks (wider blocking arc etc.). Pretty sure that similar threads have existed, but clearly DE has ignored them.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Shield weapons definitely need a looking over. Not just in damage or status or crit, but in their mechanics.

[Dillon_J]

for flare. but yea shield should give most damage reduction of all melee.

[NoggDog117]

Harbinger's cool, though. They should be better at blocking, but I'm fine with my Ack & Brunt as it is currently.

 

EDIT: Another thing to take into consideration is that one of the shields is literally made of fire. Fire's not too good at stopping bullets.

Edited October 27, 2015 by NoggDog117

[DarcnyssWolfe]

To answer the post title in the most accurate fashion given DE's history with it: So we can say we have a sword and shield weapon.

[PrimedTrinity]

 

EDIT: Another thing to take into consideration is that one of the shields is literally made of fire. Fire's not too good at stopping bullets.

Erm... burning the bullets? ._.

 

For cropus weapons that fire wouldnt do sht, but for grineer it should be fine.

[(PSN)OfficialAtom]

Because they look cool, DE's to busy trying to figure out how to add a melee Grakata to actually look over this, give em like half a year and maybe they'll consider making a change

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Erm... burning the bullets? ._.

 

For cropus weapons that fire wouldnt do sht, but for grineer it should be fine.

Let's not mention that the fire hold the pieces together xd. How freaking physic breaking that fire is.

I also want a melee that is basically... a shield.. not a weapon or anything just a shield and like you can Bash enemies with it and throw them on the ground while having almost perfect blocking rate when holding it infront of you

[Ninjamander]

Let's not mention that the fire hold the pieces together xd. How freaking physic breaking that fire is.

I also want a melee that is basically... a shield.. not a weapon or anything just a shield and like you can Bash enemies with it and throw them on the ground while having almost perfect blocking rate when holding it infront of you

 

like captain America =p

[bowiespoon]

I think all weapons need a unique trait at this point, because they all feel the same to me.

[Ahcruna]

Harbinger's cool, though. They should be better at blocking, but I'm fine with my Ack & Brunt as it is currently.

 

EDIT: Another thing to take into consideration is that one of the shields is literally made of fire. Fire's not too good at stopping bullets.

 

It doesn't even melt the bullets, it incinerates them to ashes that just softly blow past you. :D

 

On topic though; yes they should block 100% of the damage with an accuracy penalty on reflected projectiles since you are just holding it up and not actually aiming at the reflected projectiles like other weapons.

 

 

 

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There was a hole here, now it's gone. I guess...  (╯°Д°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Edited October 27, 2015 by Ahcruna

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I wholeheartedly agree. There's no point in using them over another melee. Short reach. No added bonus for blocking. One subpar stance. Low attack speed.

They need more oomph to make them stand out. Maybe 95% damage reduction and have reach effect the radius of the shield, giving the melee a team benefit.

And upon clicking the block button, the Tenno bunts anything in front of him/her, knocking the enemy flat on their bums. A page taken directly from the Grineer handbook.

And maybe give certain Sword & Shield melees different "abilities". Maybe have Silva & Aegis light things on fire when you bunt an enemy.

The short reach of these weapons could be justified if they had something else going for them. You know, like actually making use of the shield.

[Caernarvon]

And upon clicking the block button, the Tenno bunts anything in front of him/her, knocking the enemy flat on their bums. A page taken directly from the Grineer handbook.

 

That sound amazing.

[Deadoon]

for flare. but yea shield should give most damage reduction of all melee.

they do at 85%, shared with heavy weapons, nikanas, machetes and scythes.

 

Actually looking at the page, that is a huge benefit to the machete class of weapons I didn't know about.

[HyokaChan]

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the real sin is you press block and the tenno starts deflecting stuff with the sword and not the shield

 

...Which is probably why it's not higher, the tenno's just too stupid.

Edited October 28, 2015 by HyokaChan

[Paradoxbomb]

Seeing as the damage for the shield/sword weapons is pretty meh, complete damage reduction against blocked attacks would be a nice tradeoff and give them something unique compared to other melee weapons. And since the Aegis is an energy shield, maybe it could even use some fancy space magic to absorb the incoming damage and use it to further boost it's own damage/status chance.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Seeing as the damage for the shield/sword weapons is pretty meh, complete damage reduction against blocked attacks would be a nice tradeoff and give them something unique compared to other melee weapons. And since the Aegis is an energy shield, maybe it could even use some fancy space magic to absorb the incoming damage and use it to further boost it's own damage/status chance.

 

100 % damage reduc would, IMO, balance the weapon. I always loved my SaA. My first clantech weapon. At the time, before U17, it's blocking mechanix was a bit more viable (complete dmg reduc, lower stamina consump). But now, it isn't really unique. A 100% dmg reduc is definitely going to make sense. I think adding special effects like paradoxbomb suggested may/not be too much, and the shield lancer butt thing is also an interesting concept. Although it would be better if we sent them flying, rather than back. After all, we are a lot stronger than the Grineer. And it wouldn't really fit with the Space Ninja mojo if we had that annoying animation of the Shield Lancers. Maybe a new animation?

 

Also, I would wait for the shield butt thing. U18 is bringing charging back. For all we know, Shields and Swords type weps may have a shield charge as (one of) their charge attacks.

[Larred]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ everything above is awesome im also a proponent of making a lance type support melee weapon, awful damage but a rampart like shield he can set by blocking and crouching to give the tenno a place to mount a resistance from. just an idea

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

First, shield weapons when equipped should automatically block all the time. Including blocking any knockdown. And while player holds the block button they should enter parry stance where every melee attack will be autoparried.

[Numbsky1]

Weapons with shields should have their quick melee made into a shield bash knockdown combo that can be followed with quick weapons strikes within a limited time frame. Every modern game worth its salt that I know that has 1H weapon + board has a shield bash knock back /knock down CC attack.

[NKDG]

Harbinger's cool, though. They should be better at blocking, but I'm fine with my Ack & Brunt as it is currently.

 

EDIT: Another thing to take into consideration is that one of the shields is literally made of fire. Fire's not too good at stopping bullets.

but it's a shield nontheless

[Epicagemo]

The grineer riot shields are 99999999...% better lol

[DSpite]

Right now sword and board weapons sit at 85% damage reduction, the same as that of Nikanas, Hammers, Machetes, Scythes and several others.

Gameplay and theme-wise, it makes no damn sense. Either their % needs to be raised, or they need to be given some other perks (wider blocking arc etc.). Pretty sure that similar threads have existed, but clearly DE has ignored them.

 

So if they made it 86% Would that please you? 87%? No? Pretty sure you'd want 95% right, because "it's just an extra 10%".

 

You know how damage reduction based on percentages work?

 

If you have a 10000 damage attack, and you block 85%, you only take 2500.

If you have a 10000 damage attack, and you block 95%, you only take 500.

 

That 10% difference makes the blocking FIVE TIMES better on one weapon then the rest of the weapons.

 

Up it by only 5%, make it only 90%? Still TWO AND A HALF TIMES better then the rest of the weapons.

 

Yes, I think we should ask for something other then extra blocking chance.

[Ronyn]

So if they made it 86% Would that please you? 87%? No? Pretty sure you'd want 95% right, because "it's just an extra 10%".

 

You know how damage reduction based on percentages work?

 

If you have a 10000 damage attack, and you block 85%, you only take 2500.

If you have a 10000 damage attack, and you block 95%, you only take 500.

 

That 10% difference makes the blocking FIVE TIMES better on one weapon then the rest of the weapons.

 

Up it by only 5%, make it only 90%? Still TWO AND A HALF TIMES better then the rest of the weapons.

Despite your condescending tone, all you have done is explain the mechanics of how damage reduction works.

You did not actually make a case as to why that higher amount of damage reduction would be bad for the weapon/game.

Considering there is an ongoing debate on whether melee blocking should be far more effective in general since it stops us from attacking and only defends one direction in a game where we are commonly attacked in multiple directions.....

you can't present the "that's a lot more DR" as if one just takes for granted that is a bad thing.

 

Yes, I think we should ask for something other then extra blocking chance.

I don't see a problem with higher blocking effectiveness but I am open to other ideas as well.

[Paradoxbomb]

Considering there is an ongoing debate on whether melee blocking should be far more effective in general since it stops us from attacking and only defends one direction in a game where we are commonly attacked in multiple directions.....

 

Pretty much this. Even if it was 100% damage mitigation blocking would be far from godly. Very rarely is there a scenario where you're not being attacked from all directions, and even then enemies like Heavies with their AoE weaponry can outright ignore the blocking. Not to mention you have to stop blocking to attack, and you can take a surprising amount of damage in the time it takes to bludgeon a single target to death, so unless you plan to stand in the corner, hold the block key, and kill nothing for the duration of the mission I see no harm in a shield excelling in it's job and substantially (if not completely) protecting you from frontal damage.

 

That said, alternative buffs would be welcome as well, but I sincerely doubt improving it's blocking capabilities is going to make all players drop their Scindo Primes and Dragon Nikanas.