Now that there's (MORE!) timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"? Specters of Rails Updated

[Drasiel]

16 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

No, the same game without "lotus" as the controller. And tenno in frames like DE has always suggested.

<snip>

No lotus, no sentients, no space kids, old empire run by the elite warrior class... this idea tastes suspiciously of Rome and it's praetorian guards. That ended well right?

From a story perspective I much prefer where this one is wandering. I rather like the twists this game has taken on the classic "dude in super suit" space odyssey. As far as "as de always suggested" all the current in game lore can actually be taken both ways. Which is either a lucky coincidence or surprisingly good pre planning.

[CriticalFumble]

26 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

Actually we would save our original adoptive mother from execution, slaughter the Orokin Elite, take their place, then Kill Natah and her family while making sure to wipe out the Sentients. Then we can setup reforms that make all factions equal and hopefully stop the issues we have in the current setup.

There's so much bologna in this line of thought that I could start a deli. 

Assume for a moment that your dreams aren't killed in the cradle by the most obvious issue - causality - which would kick in and cancel out everything if any of the things you suggested were done. 

We'd have to cart back all the data, and preferably tons of heavy industrial gear so that we could arm ourselves in an alternate timeline where there was no warframe research.  Then we'd need to go on a nutty genocidal rampage because, lets face it, no one back then liked us.  The to-be Corpus just lost their paychecks and consider us betrayers and would resist us.  The Grineer would likely see no difference between a Tenno empire and an Orokin one, having been slaves before they want to rule - its hardwired into their outlook.  Then there's the Infestation and the Sentient both chipping away at the system.  Winning at all had a lot to do with the Tenno, but would it have worked out with the empire's industrial capacity taken down by a violent regime change? 

Then of course there's the very idea of the Tenno ruling anything.  If you need a historical example of how governments headed by warriors are damned to either failure and/or getting enormous numbers of people killed for no good reason, you could always look up the Teutonic Order, or any other feudal state I've heard of.  Not to mention the complications of trying to manage a government with the paradoxical limitations of being an incredibly powerful void energy conduit. 

[DeMonkey]

I suggest you play Singularity, that's the sort of 'time travel' we'll likely be experiencing.

[Littlerift]

I'm afraid this idea has to go in the bin marked 'stupidest ideas in history'; without the Lotus the Sentients would have wiped out the Tenno and would currently dominate the Origin System.

[Kaotyke]

You know? At this point, I believe this gif applies to this idea.

People just dont reply. Mak is infamous for making any excuse to bring up this topic.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Kao-Snake

[Mcl_Blue]

Yeah, no.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

55 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

I dont want some crazy thing with baby issues as the person in charge.

Lotus isn't in charge. She hasn't been since she had to wake the Tenno up. She's a guide, informant, and organizer. Think of her more like your publicist. She tells you current events and introduces you to some people you might want to work with. Most of it tends to be optional.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by (PS4)Lowk721

[Neofaucheur]

33 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

No, the same game without "lotus" as the controller. And tenno in frames like DE has always suggested.

I can't see where DE ever suggested that Tenno was actually inside the frames. Not as they are at least.

36 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

No "lotus" just didnt choose to kill us. Remember... she was supposed to kill us after bringing down the orokin.

So if we kill her there is nothing to worry about.

The Lotus actually chose to save the Tenno by not follow her father's orders and by hiding them inside the void and out of his reach. If you didn't saw that you missed some important point somewhere.
And aside from the purely morale and ethic issue if we kill her we would have to face at least the Sentients (if not Hunhow, which death is not yet a fact, another will take his place) and the Stalker, and that without any strong backup and intels provided by the Lotus. With that line of thought you should actually try to join the Acolytes of the Stalker and side with him.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

1 hour ago, Kontrollo said:

This is not time travelling.

 

The following would happen if we had a time machine:

Another thing that is theorized that could happen, is that you would simply appear somewhere else in space, because as you travelled back in time, pretty much everything in the universe travelled back to their position (because going back in time means that the universe had "less space" as space is constantly being created) in that specific time where you landed, so you would be somewhere else. Even if it was even just less than a second, you might as well end up inside a wall or inside the earth, or in the moon, or inside the moon, or in space. To properly travel in time you need to travel in space as well which might make the whole theory a whole lot harder. Well, this is when people actual travel in time, not when they rewind or send their consciousness.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Time travelling? Lolwut?

[Archeyef]

Just now, (XB1)A Frikn Grizzly said:

Time travelling? Lolwut?

He's talking about this: https://warframe.com/news/attention-pc-tenno-31

"The time has come to explore both timelines. Your deft spy skills are called upon as you overcome time-bending challenges on new Moon missions."

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, CriticalFumble said:

I know, sheesh.  

Though even more worrysome is how many people think Tenno should get into a position of direct authority over the system.  

Because governments headed by warrior castes are extra magical fun happy and nothing ever bad happens there, right?  RIGHT!?

Huh? This is a videogame. It turns out like whatever the people creating the story wants.

1 hour ago, Archeyef said:

This is just what Mak does. At any opportunity.

Edit: I'm coining the phrase "Mak Attack" for these threads. Don't care if anyone else uses it, I'm gonna use it.

Please discuss the subject rather than the poster.

1 hour ago, ndantony said:

If there is a time machine, why do you think Tenno would be the only one be using it?

Lotus, Sentient, Grineer, Corpus etc... would and can already be ahead of the Tenno. Why would they have to wait for you to use it? Lol.

Never said anything about a time machine.

But if some one can use the time pockets now being introduced in the game, yes, this will become a new weapon all factions will fight over.

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

A terrifying number of people, especially in nerdy circles, really don't seem to get that Empire is a bad idea which causes massive suffering and oppression, no matter how many different times and places it gets tried.

 

Is a fictional universe and people discuss possibilities, what's the issue with that?

Also, Mak, have you ever actually articulated just why you think it would be better if the Tenno were physically inside the Warframes? Using hard in-setting information, rather than just assuming that people should agree that it would be 'cooler' that way?

It's not about better it's just what some people would like to have.

I should say that there would be an option for people keep their digital gamers hanging out in the ships eating Orokitos and drinking Void Dew.

[Littlerift]

9 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

It's not about better it's just what I would like to have.

I should say that there would be an option for people keep their digital gamers hanging out in the ships eating Orokitos and drinking Void Dew.

Fixed. The game has always heavily implied that you aren't inside the Warframe, the fact that people want to pretend to be in a pretend spacesuit rather than pretend to be in a pretend ship controlling a pretend spacesuit is inconsequential.

[Archeyef]

1 minute ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Please discuss the subject rather than the poster.

They asked a direct question. I'm not discussing you, I'm just saying that this is something you do regularly. I bear no ill will toward you for it, though I do strongly disagree.

Now then, the topic. I don't really think there's any point in wanting to kill the lotus. Killing her leaves the Orokin in control, because she did not carry out her mission to eliminate the ruling class and destabilize the enemy. Her attitude toward the Tenno is entirely irrelevant, because if we went back and killed her the gameworld would be entirely different. Her mission was one of desperation, the Sentient were losing, and they had to act fast. Lotus was their operative for that mission. She did not FULLY carry out her mission, but if it were not for her the Orokin would still be in power.

Whatever your opinions, that is a solid fact. Lotus's actions are what destroyed the Orokin empire. The same empire that was keeping everyone, including the player characters, under their heel. Killing Lotus before she carries out the part of her mission that succeeded would completely alter the gameworld. This is one of those times where gameplay and lore mingle. It is not feasible to attempt it, there are far too many things that would need to be changed.

11 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

It's not about better it's just what some people would like to have.

I should say that there would be an option for people keep their digital gamers hanging out in the ships eating Orokitos and drinking Void Dew.

Yes but what you would like to have would directly infringe on what others would like to have. Too many others. This isn't a singleplayer game, killing the lotus kills the lotus for everyone.

[CriticalFumble]

16 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

Huh? This is a videogame. It turns out like whatever the people creating the story wants.

You could argue that the fact that the writer wrote a story a given way legitimizes its existence. 

You also could use that to argument to say that Twilight was a good love story. 

Point being - ego is not a replacement for good writing.  You can draw from peoples' messianic complexes and have them sort everything out for the better (while also being pointlessly vindictive to add in some more ego messaging and ignore any possible consequences).  But then you have Mary Sue vs. The Strawman Menace, which is scrub tier paperback fiction collecting dust in the bargain bin in Wall-Mart on a good day.   Or you have finite characters making the best of a bad situation dealing with issues they can't just brush aside.  Which makes for a much more compelling story - even DC realizes this, why do you think they nerfed Super Man? 

Edited March 1, 2016 by CriticalFumble
forgot "also"

[GordoFreeman]

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

So the tenno end up knowing fully about themselves? We can also get rid or all Sentients in the SS so they dont mess around ever again.

And maybe rule as the new Orokin leaders?

We can also change it so the tenno are inside the frames instead of sitting in some gaming chairs drinking Void Dew and eating Orokitos?

Basically if we go back in time (and we cant, read some of the posts above) and kill the lotus, we are not saved, so there is no one to go back in time to kill the lotus, so lotus lives, so we are saved and alive in the present, and you can loop all the times you want.

Other plausible scenario involves multiple realities (killing the lotus creates a different reality where she is dead in parallel with the auto corrected one i explained above)

Quoting Vay Hek: Did you really believe it would be this easy?!

Edited March 1, 2016 by GordoFreeman

[XtheMATTx]

2 hours ago, ClockworkSpectre said:

if i understand it correctly it was more along the lines of parts of structures still trapped in the void(and preserved) and you enter or exit those pockets, rather than time travel.  At least this is the impression I got from the last devstream, I saw what that news post said, but it doesn't actually imply time travel. 

They clearly stated that There would be traveling from before the collapse of the Orokin empire and after.

 

So yes, its time travel.

 

 

[XtheMATTx]

And I don't think that the OP understands that the Lotus is the one who saved the origin system. She released us from the slavery of the sentient.

 

smh.

[Marksman]

3 minutes ago, XtheMATTx said:

They clearly stated that There would be traveling from before the collapse of the Orokin empire and after.

 

So yes, its time travel.

 

 

I doubt it's time travel, it just sounds as if it's an easier way to explain that you're going to preserved orokin areas in the void.

At least that's how they made it sound on the last devstream o_O

Edited March 1, 2016 by Marksman

[Littlerift]

Just now, XtheMATTx said:

And I don't think that the OP understands that the Lotus is the one who saved the origin system. She released us from the slavery of the sentient.

 

smh.

And she hid the Reservoir in the Void to ensure that the Tenno would always be safe, until Hunhow came along, at which point she was the only character in the universe who knew how to safely drop the Reservoir out of the Void, and thus saved the Tenno again.

[--Q--uaint]

@Drasiel @Neofaucheur @Attley

How do you explain Limbo and Mirage’s deaths in the backstories to their quests? It’s clear from a gameplay and possibly lore standpoint that Tenno can just jumpstart any 'frame they die in 4 times, and that even if they can’t jumpstart the 'frame enough times to succeed, they can just try again.

Limbo, I suppose you could make an argument for… if he encountered something mind-shattering, it’s possible that his Operator just died of shock or whatever.

I don’t see how Lotus would be affected by Mirage’s “death” so much if recovery was as simple as “bruh, just use a revive.”

 

I know this is off-topic, but it’s silly to pretend that the lore of Warframe has always been consistent.

[XtheMATTx]

1 minute ago, Marksman said:

I doubt it's time travel, it just sounds as if it's an easier way to explain that you're going to preserved orokin areas in the void. 

"The Second Dream unveiled the desolate Moon from The Void. But there was once a time when the Orokin ruled over the Solar System from this prestigious satellite, a home full of awe-inspiring architecture.

The time has come to explore both timelines. Your deft spy skills are called upon as you overcome time-bending challenges on new Moon missions"

 

Taken straight from the hub page.

 

Its time travel.

[Marksman]

Just now, XtheMATTx said:

"The Second Dream unveiled the desolate Moon from The Void. But there was once a time when the Orokin ruled over the Solar System from this prestigious satellite, a home full of awe-inspiring architecture.

The time has come to explore both timelines. Your deft spy skills are called upon as you overcome time-bending challenges on new Moon missions"

 

Taken straight from the hub page.

 we

Its time travel.

You don't need to time travel to explore ''timelines'' so long as there are preserved areas from those timelines you would be exploring them, besides if there was timetravel that would present the problem that we would be facing real orokin and not the corrupted mobs that we are used to.

[BansheePrime]

5 minutes ago, XtheMATTx said:

"The Second Dream unveiled the desolate Moon from The Void. But there was once a time when the Orokin ruled over the Solar System from this prestigious satellite, a home full of awe-inspiring architecture.

The time has come to explore both timelines. Your deft spy skills are called upon as you overcome time-bending challenges on new Moon missions"

 

Taken straight from the hub page.

 

Its time travel.

I'm gonna go explore both timelines.. the present and the past in a history book now since thats timetravel, brb.

Edit: also.. its the void... time doesnt exist.

Edited March 1, 2016 by maj.death

[XtheMATTx]

I stand by my statement. Its timetravel.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by XtheMATTx