Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[Kaotyke]

8 hours ago, Sonorum said:

As good, as Lunaro is, we need a form of punishment for people who hit someone over and over, so we can't play.
I get 8 goals, we have 10 in total, the other team has 2 points and a Rhino just starts going at me like a psycho with a baseball bat, so I can't even move, even tho I don't have the ball. Anyone else gets that?

Try to play as a goalie, someone will come to stunlock you.

[Arlayn]

Can we get a fix for Lunaro's BIGGEST GLARING PROBLEM. Its unplayable whatever is going on with staggers, or knock downs. Now we just get knocked down and kept down. We NEED a cool down on that knock down. Make it so a knock down can only be done every so often. As it is now its insane. I was kept down through most of the game stuck on the ground. I just got fed up and decided... SCREW IT if they are going to ruin Lunaro for me might as well do it right back. So I just pinned the guy who pinned me on the ground forever. Kept knocking him down because the knock down with E is broken to hell its unfair, and its as bad as camping. No sportsmanship whatsoever, and it doesn't encourage/promote teamwork, friendliness, or whatever Teshin said it just enrages us, and makes us want to play Warframe less just knowing people like this EXIST. This is the exact reason I don't play PVP because the worst in humanity just comes out. This knock down with E is by far the worst I have seen, and NEEDS TO STOP if you want Lunaro to grow. It needs to be a good sportsmanship game even if it means placing restrictions on certain actions, and adding fouls, and penalties allowing free shots/points for garbage like this.

 

edit: I will admit people who troll bring out the worst in me. Happened with Limbo, and it definitely happened with Lunaro knock downs.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Arlayn
Trolling brings out the worst in us

[Kaotyke]

13 minutes ago, Arlayn said:

edit: I will admit people who troll bring out the worst in me. Happened with Limbo, and it definitely happened with Lunaro knock downs.

Now be a Limbo in Lunaro.

Never again.

[Sc10n0fD4rksp0r3]

The biggest problems I have with Lunaro is: No one has any incentive to pass to their teammates, and people are checked (tackled) even when they don't have the ball. This is my biggest problems.

[BlackVortex]

5 minutes ago, Sc10n0fD4rksp0r3 said:

The biggest problems I have with Lunaro is: No one has any incentive to pass to their teammates, and people are checked (tackled) even when they don't have the ball. This is my biggest problems.

I remember in deathball, you would die if you were attacked with the ball and then had to respawn at your goal, you were also a lot slower with the ball and passing had a different button which was also a sort of lockon shot so fairly easy to use.

in Lunaro they could add passing spree conclave standing or something

then again, we will have to see how it turns out when playing in an organized team

[Kaotyke]

6 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

I remember in deathball, you would die if you were attacked with the ball and then had to respawn at your goal, you were also a lot slower with the ball and passing had a different button which was also a sort of lockon shot so fairly easy to use.

in Lunaro they could add passing spree conclave standing or something

then again, we will have to see how it turns out when playing in an organized team

I dont have hopes for an organized team if the stunslocks remains.

I tried to stay away from my team's defensive area, so I was being an attacker, I just kept counting the minutes each of them kept trying to pass the ball forward so I could get it. They couldnt, because they were being stunlocked and they in turn had to stunlock them to keep the ball off their hands and had a worse time because they had one less player to help (me).

Edited June 18, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[SirSpudicus]

I've played some Lunaro (although not since Lunaro 3 came out but my post shouldn't go into those changes anyways) so I thought I'd input my thoughts.

First off, I find the overall game of Lunaro quite a fun experience.  It is the only PvP mode I've played (not big of PvP in any game) but find playing a "game" more fun.  I find the movement to be pretty good, the general gameplay pretty good, and the overall entertainment to be pretty good.  I do have some criticisms though.

As a lot of people have said, stunlocking seems like an issue.  I have not personally be effected by it (I think a few times some people tried maybe) but I could see it as a big issue.  Being constantly knocked down is just plain annoying and is often something that (I would think at least) would be a form of rage.  A few things could fix this in my opinion.

1. add a cooldown to tackles:  this is the most obvious choice for fixing stunlocking but I do see a bit of an issue.  If you are playing in Lunaro, knocking a dangerous opponent down in your zone is a tactical thing to do.  If a player is scoring on you, why wouldn't you want to stop them with more than a stagger?  If a cooldown was added, it would require multiple players to do the same tactic which then leads the other 2 opponents free to run around and score themselves.  Obviously this would stop stunlocking (which is the purpose) but it could take away from the game (in my opinion).
2. Add energy pickups and make tackles cost energy: I'm not going to lie, I only read about this one.  This could be a good fix but once again it takes from the game because you need to tackled to defend some of the time.  If you can only tackle four times before you need energy, for example, you are now a pretty bad defender unless you are a goalie.  It would stop the problem though.
3. Add invincibility after being knocked down: This is something I think would work great.  Rather than taking away a single player's tackling ability or making tackles cost something, you could just add a time when you can no longer be knocked down once you have been knocked down.  What I imagine would be maybe 4-7 seconds where you can't be staggered or knocked down if you were just knocked down.  This would make stunlocking useless because if they keep hitting you, you can stand up and run away (or bullet jump or something).  I like this idea over a cooldown personally because cooldowns would have a more drastic effect on the game while an invincibility time would fix the stunlocking without changing too much else.
4. punish people for stunlocking: maybe?

 

I personally think that movement speed could be bumped up a little bit.  I do generally like the pacing of Lunaro but adding a little more speed would make it slightly more exciting.  It wouldn't be a big change but I do think that it might help.

I still think that the indication that you have the ball should be a little more clear.  When I played this morning, it was a little easier to tell but not by much.  I think adding a flash of white light around the screen border (like when you take health or shield damage in game) could help.  Once again it is a little thing but I often find myself with the ball when I didn't know it and have to throw it right away so the Lunaro didn't explode in my face.

In the area of the tutorial, I would like to be able to practice some of the other skills.  Right now you can practice movement and shooting but I think adding a practice tutorial on curve shots (which I think should be explained a little more because the mechanics are bit confusing), passing, tackling, and defense would be helpful rather than just Teshin talking about them while the player is distracted with the shiny bright ball and throwing said ball into the goal from 5 feet away (yes, I did that. A lot)

Team balance was an issue I saw a lot today (before the Lunaro 3 update).  I ended up being on a team of 3 against 1 two game in a row, and on a team of 4 against 2 in another.  It eventually fixed itself when we reached two teams of three before one game (the problem seemed to happen when people joined the game after it had started (as a note in this note, the scoreboard would also only show it as 2v1 or 3v2 so maybe it was a scoreboard error as well and team balance?)).  In both cases, I basically ran around on defense a bit and at one point quit doing that too because it felt so unfair to have a 2 person advantage.  Basically, that needs to be fixed (and maybe it has been already, I'm not sure).

 

I believe those are all my criticisms.  As an added note, I'm glad that stats are normalized in the gamemode.  It makes it so that certain warframes are not straight up better than others (Loki and Zephyr most notably) and makes Lunaro a sport of competition and FashionFrame (I enjoy seeing how people decorate their warframes).  :D

All in all, Lunaro is really fun but has a few issues that need addressing.  Either way, I'm going to play a lot more in the future!

If any of this has been addressed before or fixed/changed already, sorry about that.

 

[Arlayn]

1 hour ago, Sc10n0fD4rksp0r3 said:

The biggest problems I have with Lunaro is: No one has any incentive to pass to their teammates, and people are checked (tackled) even when they don't have the ball. This is my biggest problems.

 

1 hour ago, Venom-Snake said:

I dont have hopes for an organized team if the stunslocks remains.

I tried to stay away from my team's defensive area, so I was being an attacker, I just kept counting the minutes each of them kept trying to pass the ball forward so I could get it. They couldnt, because they were being stunlocked and they in turn had to stunlock them to keep the ball off their hands and had a worse time because they had one less player to help (me).

We should push for stunlock fix ideas rather than passing right now(not that passing incentives is bad, but stunlock makes passing kind of a terrifying ordeal). The main gripe making people stop is the stunlocks. The never ending stun locks could keep players out of the game indefinitely at times if the tackle is timed just right. It makes NPC stunlocks at their worst bearable. If we could fix it with a penalty if done at certain points, or maybe you slow down right after a tackle making a tackle a last ditch move to save your allies, or get the ball out of the other team's hands. Could even make a penalty for pinning the same person more than 3 times in a row like say give said team who had teammate pinned after three tackles in a row they get a speed boost. This will really turn off pinning. Now I can understand if they have a ball say they get the ball three times in a row and are knocked down that's ok your stopping the ball the ticker for pinning resets every time that person being pinned gets the ball. However with someone who doesn't have a ball this should be a penalty.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Arlayn
grammar

[Mak_Gohae]

we really need to have the targeting reticle change to show when you have the ball.

And maybe automatically turn off bullet twirling when you have the ball.

[Monchopin]

And some more!

It would be nice if the ball didn't instantly drop if you intercepted it during a bullet jump - i can get not bullet jumping while holding the ball, but i shouldn't be punished for intercepting it on the fly

Also, something really needs to be done to the shoulder stun thing, there are players who do nothing but spam that and it's not a fun thing to do or receive - maybe having the same movement without the stun and straight up stealing the ball would be enough

Holding the ball and instantly losing it without any chance of defense or play also really sucks, it quickly becomes a mosh pit of people mashing E

Regarding movement: I'd like to see some side-rolls both on the ground and in flight like in PvE, it really hurts the flow of movement if you can only move alongside a straight line

Also, i'd suggest adding a glow to the poles, because they're really dark and get lost with the background when seen from the opposing side, while they're fairly lit with the goal's light from the inner side - thus making it kinda hard to aim

 

On the ball itself, I'd like to see a less floaty feel to it: faster movement, heavier fall, and maybe a more prominent bounce than the sad, deflated soccer ball we have right now - could make for some nice pole or ground bounce goals and some neat passes 

Last suggestions were here:

 

[MillbrookWest]

Un-link the menu from your Character please.

It's annoying when people perma-stunlock you. It's doubly annoying when you try and quit but you can't get to the 'abort mission' button cause you are constantly getting knocked over.

Almost needed to alt-F4 my way out of a match.

Edited June 18, 2016 by MillbrookWest

[Shifted]

So I just played my first game.
I absolutely hated it.

The enemy team had a guy who just sat in the goal 24/7, preventing anyone from scoring.
So you know what I did? I sat right next to him punching the **** out of him 24/7.
Was definitely not fun for neither of us.

Now the obvious thing to fix that is to add the "three second rule" from NBA, where you can't "camp the hoop" unless there's an opponent right next to you.
There is a problem with that though.

You know why Rocket League is so fun?
Because it's simple.

Lunaro is already overcomplicated with the 5 second hold rule, the zone clearing, etc etc.
You start adding more rules to try to balance it out, it's gonna become a headache.

I had really high hopes for this mode because I love rocket league.
It's one of the few games that don't make me angry when I lose.
Lunaro is the exact opposite.

Drop the match halves, make it a single thing. Matches are too long anyway.
Remove the "zone clearing", just teleport everyone out.
Remove the ball holding completely, just make players pass/shoot to the direction they're aiming as long as they're near the ball.
Change the right click "magnet" to a weak repulsion aoe instead so it can be used to defend or dribble.
Tackling can pretty much be removed because players can't hold the ball anymore. If not, make a tackled player be pushed away, not knocked down.

Oh and last but not least:
FULL TEAMS BEFORE MATCH STARTS.
3v1 sucks.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Shifted

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, Shifted said:

The enemy team had a guy who just sat in the goal 24/7, preventing anyone from scoring.
So you know what I did? I sat right next to him punching the **** out of him 24/7.

Oh, so you combat a person playing a goalie by being a poor sport instead of just trying to outplay them?

I guess I must have just imagined all of those games where we scored 10+ times on the enemy team while they had a goalie and were on Sun team so they had host advantage.

[Arlayn]

8 minutes ago, Shifted said:

So I just played my first game.
I absolutely hated it.

The enemy team had a guy who just sat in the goal 24/7, preventing anyone from scoring.
So you know what I did? I sat right next to him punching the **** out of him 24/7.
Was definitely not fun for neither of us.

Now the obvious thing to fix that is to add the "three second rule" from NBA, where you can't "camp the hoop" unless there's an opponent right next to you.
There is a problem with that though.

You know why Rocket League is so fun?
Because it's simple.

Lunaro is already overcomplicated with the 5 second hold rule, the zone clearing, etc etc.
You start adding more rules to try to balance it out, it's gonna become a headache.

I had really high hopes for this mode because I love rocket league.
It's one of the few games that don't make me angry when I lose.
Lunaro is the exact opposite.

Remove the "zone clearing", just teleport everyone out.
Remove the ball holding completely, just make players pass/shoot to the direction they're aiming as long as they're near the ball.
Change the right click "magnet" to a weak repulsion aoe instead so it can be used to defend or dribble.
Tackling can pretty much be removed because players can't hold the ball anymore.

If you can't make conclave points scoring, and its almost impossible to get an assist. Next best thing... saves. If conclave points weren't such a pain to obtain there wouldn't be a need for defenders. Its all about that rep farming. If there were other task that gave us conclave rep while playing Lunaro I would be doing those instead... Sometimes the opposing team is too organized and too good to score against. Kinda harsh to blame goalies for just wanting to make a few points towards rep before game over.

edit: also zone clearing teleportation would make it easier for scoring just means we can fly in grab the ball and slam dunk that ring again... and again... and again... make it easier to torture the losing team...

Edited June 18, 2016 by Arlayn

[Shifted]

6 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Oh, so you combat a person playing a goalie by being a poor sport instead of just trying to outplay them?

I guess I must have just imagined all of those games where we scored 10+ times on the enemy team while they had a goalie and were on Sun team so they had host advantage.

How is what I did relevant to balance discussion?

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean everyone won't.
You don't balance by wishful thinking.
You balance by making rules.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Shifted

[CrankyYoda]

just another ping  wins all

being in aus   im always behind  the flow and  i can collect and  throw  in one click and still get  a steal

like most pvp things  not something worth my time

[GreatThanos]

Hi.
Personaly I like the game.

For the "ping", bellow 180ms you play normal.

Bugs :
Visual bug on the game match screen (before the match), the palyers that join are not positioned on the right side (their team side).
If the game ends because of no opponnent players you win 50-0.
Need some team ballance, 1 more player on the team with the most players is not needed.
Unwanted pass inside the small gold safe zone (just outside the goalpost) you pass on the person behind you.
Players inside safe zone after a goal can stand on the ball spawn point and hit the ball when spawn.
Sometimes friendly players with the ball have no indicator, so you end up wandering where is the ball.
Sometimes not all enemies have their team color.
Halftime spawn sometimes spawn you heading the other way.
While knoked donw you can still "magnet" the lunaro and get the ball.

Ideas :
- For the "spamming E" problem, maybe every time someone throw you down u get a buff with 10% possibility to resist the next one, and this buff should stuck on its shelf.
- When ball spawn on the safe zone after a goal, opponents can't touch it unless some more seconds pass (5-6 sec) or a player get it, or, you cant score if the ball dont exit the safe zone (unless you steal it).
- For the loser team maybe a small speed boost (+0.1% for every goal difference) if the difference is +5 goals.
- Maybe a defence stance like parry can help the players deffence.

Practice :
Needs some more info with maybe a virtual figure showing moves and basic tactics. Like :
- Protect the ball carier by hitting nearby opponents.
- Presing E while having the ball can dash you so you can avoid an opponent and score (or trick the goalkeaper and score).


Very nice game, keep up the good work.
Haters are going to hate anyway, if you dont like it dont play it.

Edited June 18, 2016 by GreatThanos

[CrudShuzKong]

I palyed a bunch of Lunaro, jsut now and heres what i found:

+ The game is super fun in theory

- "e" spamming completely destroys that

-> Made a party with clanmates where we completely banned "e"

=> most fun i ever had in warframe.

So what im trying to say here is that thanks to the time limit on holding the Lunaro, the game actually works super well even if its super hard to take away the ball from other players. Intercepting passes and shots on the goal is a lot more fun then trying to bash the heck out of other players.

My suggestion would be to try and disable the Tackle part of "e" and just make it a positioning tool and a way to make an "angry" Lunaro shot. This could also be an even more pacifist version of lunaro (seperate matchmaking) where staggering doesnt exist, and only the ball is important.

Edited June 18, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[Xsoskeleton]

Should have added something like knockdown resist (checkable with shoulder charge etc, but resists knockdown) on the goal area (the gold floor) for the respective team so enemy's hulk smash spammer wont be able to takedown people trying to guard their goal, srsly spammed lunaro match and there always some people raping the one who acts as goalkeeper making them unable to move at all (apparently shoulder smash thingy knocks you down despite you have already knocked down, some people spammed it on the goalkeeper to prevent them defending their goal).

I had to pin them down with their own way sometimes, lunaro should have been a conclave that is not supposed to hurt each other except trying to take the ball, but some people really have a high rate 1st class bloodthirst

Edited June 18, 2016 by Xsoskeleton

[Need_A_Shave]

6 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Oh, so you combat a person playing a goalie by being a poor sport instead of just trying to outplay them?

I guess I must have just imagined all of those games where we scored 10+ times on the enemy team while they had a goalie and were on Sun team so they had host advantage.

That is the only current way to "outplay" them, the goalie you were against obviously had no idea what he was doing, against a decent goalie there's nothing stopping him from blocking every shot, the goal is so small. Then again making the goal bigger makes shooting too easy, there needs to be a way to stop people permanently camping the goal and checking needs to be drastically restricted.

Edited June 18, 2016 by GoldenSamurai

[Ocaz]

I don't understand why you added this game mode anyway. it has nothing to do with the rest of the game. It is basically rocket league done poorly. The joy of rocket league is how difficult it is to control and yet satisfying when a goal is scored. This is just not even fun whatsoever. If one person is lagging they are immediately the most powerful player in Lunaro. They glitch around and lag compensation made by the host server gives priority to the player lagging the hardest. So many times i have gotten the ball stolen by an imaginary player that was not nearby either the ball or me. I've only done one match of this crap and i will never play it again. Its super broken and frustrating to play. Its a downhill slope once a goal is scored on you. All the opposing players make a fence around your "Defender zone" and catch the ball or the player with it and score back immediately. My team did it, the enemy team did it. Stop focusing on conclave. Not many people play it anyway, if it is good enough for whomever plays it, leave it be and focus on the other parts of the game. Warframe is not going to be an e-sport, stop trying extremely hard to make it one.

[Need_A_Shave]

9 minutes ago, Ocaz said:

I don't understand why you added this game mode anyway. it has nothing to do with the rest of the game. It is basically rocket league done poorly. The joy of rocket league is how difficult it is to control and yet satisfying when a goal is scored. This is just not even fun whatsoever. If one person is lagging they are immediately the most powerful player in Lunaro. They glitch around and lag compensation made by the host server gives priority to the player lagging the hardest. So many times i have gotten the ball stolen by an imaginary player that was not nearby either the ball or me. I've only done one match of this crap and i will never play it again. Its super broken and frustrating to play. Its a downhill slope once a goal is scored on you. All the opposing players make a fence around your "Defender zone" and catch the ball or the player with it and score back immediately. My team did it, the enemy team did it. Stop focusing on conclave. Not many people play it anyway, if it is good enough for whomever plays it, leave it be and focus on the other parts of the game. Warframe is not going to be an e-sport, stop trying extremely hard to make it one.

Hah, if they intended this to be an e-sport, then it wouldn't have turned out like this, at the very least there would be spectator mode. It's just meant to be a bit of fun, which it has the potential to be when they fix the problems with it. I personally find it much more enjoyable than PVP conclave and a good addition to Warframe in general. Having played a lot of Rocket League, this is fairly different although admittedly still a 3rd person game with a ball and two goals.

[Xsoskeleton]

20 minutes ago, Ocaz said:

I don't understand why you added this game mode anyway. it has nothing to do with the rest of the game. It is basically rocket league done poorly. The joy of rocket league is how difficult it is to control and yet satisfying when a goal is scored. This is just not even fun whatsoever. If one person is lagging they are immediately the most powerful player in Lunaro. They glitch around and lag compensation made by the host server gives priority to the player lagging the hardest. So many times i have gotten the ball stolen by an imaginary player that was not nearby either the ball or me. I've only done one match of this crap and i will never play it again. Its super broken and frustrating to play. Its a downhill slope once a goal is scored on you. All the opposing players make a fence around your "Defender zone" and catch the ball or the player with it and score back immediately. My team did it, the enemy team did it. Stop focusing on conclave. Not many people play it anyway, if it is good enough for whomever plays it, leave it be and focus on the other parts of the game. Warframe is not going to be an e-sport, stop trying extremely hard to make it one.

"For you tenno who denies the blood of the conclave"

[Poppin_Fresh]

So I've played some more, and I enjoy the change to the checking so it just knocks people down. I agree with other's suggestions, it needs a cool down of some sort. If you have the ball you just spam it to dash forward, there needs to be a way stop this. Maybe only give the ball carrier a cool down.

Playing with a lagging host is makes it almost unplayable, so probably dedicated servers. 

Give us more time to get a full group before starting the match. I would suggest a minute.

The conclave challenges don't really fit with the idea of team play. people play to complete the challenges, and not to play as a team.

Make the people glow their team colors all the time.

Make it only one half long 5 Minutes total. It seems most of the time the game is over by half time, and if it's not we can always play again for a rematch.

Weird things I've had happen during Lunaro

• The host migrates at the intro screen, it immediately throws the players into the match.
• The host migrates after half time it resets the clock, and you don't get any rewards at the end.
• The host migrated at half time, and I spawned in the ceiling.

I also had a weird situation where I was on sun, and one of my team mates was glowing like they were on moon. See the team mate w/ Ball

I'm still having fun playing it, and learning some of the neat things you can do in it.

[Ax0r]

6 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

I palyed a bunch of Lunaro, jsut now and heres what i found:

+ The game is super fun in theory

- "e" spamming completely destroys that

-> Made a party with clanmates where we completely banned "e"

=> most fun i ever had in warframe.

So what im trying to say here is that thanks to the time limit on holding the Lunaro, the game actually works super well even if its super hard to take away the ball from other players. Intercepting passes and shots on the goal is a lot more fun then trying to bash the heck out of other players.

My suggestion would be to try and disable the Tackle part of "e" and just make it a positioning tool and a way to make an "angry" Lunaro shot. This could also be an even more pacifist version of lunaro (seperate matchmaking) where staggering doesnt exist, and only the ball is important.

I agree with you and like the idea. As long as there is a way to harm opponents some people will always abuse that and spoil the game for everyone else. Intercepting passes is actually not that hard. At the moment checking is not only annoying when spammed but it disrupts the whole concept of teamwork in general since whenever you hold the lunaro you are forced to just throw it away quickly before somebody completely rams you down making passing impossible, or just all your teammates get locked down in pointless fights.

I don't know why DE is so obsessed with checking that even after 20 pages and several youtube videos of negative feedback couldn't convince them to remove it, just make tiny irrelevant changes to it, but please finally spare us from this horrible feature because at the moment Lunaro is nearly unenjoyable .