Prime Time #126: Vandal Reaction Poll

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

7 minutes ago, siralextraffo said:

I totally agree and I don't even think founders' stuff should be exclusive, was just reporting the facts as at the very, very beginning Rebecca posted a faq stating Vandal weapons were not coming back; I think someone posted it here some pages ago. 

It was also in a time when Warframe could have likely lasted less than a year in Dr's mind, we all have to remember that when judging those early choices. 

That said, I'm glad they're reconsidering it now as as you said I don't think they should have been exclusive at all in the first place. 

Damage is done tho and now it wouldn't really be fair to release them again without some sort of compensation, no matter if we think it's deserved or not. 

They just need to make them look noticeably differnt on their return.

I remember when epic faced a similar problem with gears 3, the thrashball Cole skin was a beta reward but it was incredibly popular so they decided to rerelease in a different colour, that way you could tell at a glance who had played beta.

Now obviously colours wouldnt work in Warframe but you could have a mark on the rereleases to differentiate from the originals. That way no compensation needed, those who wish to use the weapons as a badge can do.

[ChaoSoldier1986]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

They just need to make them look noticeably differnt on their return.

I remember when epic faced a similar problem with gears 3, the thrashball Cole skin was a beta reward but it was incredibly popular so they decided to rerelease in a different colour, that way you could tell at a glance who had played beta.

Now obviously colours wouldnt work in Warframe but you could have a mark on the rereleases to differentiate from the originals. That way no compensation needed, those who wish to use the weapons as a badge can do.

Sounds like you're saying Beta/Founder Gear would have an innate sigil on them to stand out amongst others?

[gunslinger20121]

Just now, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Sounds like you're saying Beta/Founder Gear would have an innate sigil on them to stand out amongst others?

Or maybe release some sort of exclusive cosmetic to those people. That way, they can always show off their Beta/Founder status.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

6 minutes ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Sounds like you're saying Beta/Founder Gear would have an innate sigil on them to stand out amongst others?

Yeah, something like that or the new ones have something that clearly show they are copies or second additions. Either way the CBTers keep their exclusivity and can show it off if they so desire.

[Lanadra]

The simplest solution is a new skin for those that had them before, a skin they can put on their Braton/Lato Vandal or even Braton Prime, while the rest of us just get the Vandals.

[Arniox]

7 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

I don't think I do, the IAH Braton skin is the rarest thing I got I think, not counting vaulted primes, that skin was only shortly available and you had to make a new account through IAHGames to get a code for it.

 

 

ah ok, interesting.

5 hours ago, markus230 said:

I think Rixty Aklato Skin might be rarer, It required you to buy plat through Rixty... shame that Rixty didn't work for me

Anyway, I think we've gone slightly offtopic

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that skin. I think one of my friends had that... maybe, it was so long ago. But then that makes the Rixity Aklato skin and the IAHGames the only two skins that are exclusive that I don't have :P I don't really care, but they're probably never coming back because they are from retired promos.

Anyways, back to the subject at hand, my statement is simple: I wouldn't care if they came back or not. It would be really nice if they did, but it doesn't bother me if they don't. It's completely up to DE to decide in the end, so... I leave it up to you DE

Edited July 18, 2016 by Arniox
fixed spelling

[(PSN)Filthy113]

45 pages later what's the final verdict DE YES OR NO?

[Lanadra]

The votes seem to have slowed to a crawl anyhow.

[Noabettiet]

It should have never gave mastery points, i own them and personally am already with it.

However it would be still great if the devs gave something different instead, that isn't a weapon. To avoid things like this.

[Gorila_Azul]

Wish there was a "whatever" button in that poll.

[markus230]

11 hours ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

They just need to make them look noticeably differnt on their return.

I remember when epic faced a similar problem with gears 3, the thrashball Cole skin was a beta reward but it was incredibly popular so they decided to rerelease in a different colour, that way you could tell at a glance who had played beta.

Now obviously colours wouldnt work in Warframe but you could have a mark on the rereleases to differentiate from the originals. That way no compensation needed, those who wish to use the weapons as a badge can do.

I don't think its possible. In order to have two weapons with different default skins DE would have to make them separate weapons and it wouldn't solve the problem since original Braton Vandal mastery would still be limited only to CBT players.

The only way it would work it is either changing the default skin of every Braton and Lato Vandal and then giving CBT players current default as a skin

Or giving everyone the same Braton and Lato as we have now, but giving CBT new skin.

I could get behind that since I could use sweet Vandal skin on Braton Prime.

But again, its up to DE, as long as the skin doesn't look half-assed Im okay with that

Edited July 19, 2016 by markus230

[Abufhad]

Nothing about mastery xp should have been exclusive in the first place DE. DE wake up, exclusive skins or cosmetics for founders? yes, all games do this business and everyone happy.

but with warframe  a small number of people helped you with the game at the beginning  thanks to them, give them skins and never released it again. Why founders ahead of us with ranking up ? oh they have exclusive weapons ! not skins.

Took you 3 years to  vote on returning closed beta weapons ?  what about next time to put a vote on giving founders special perks and return Excalibur prime from Vault? 

so we hardcore players can get mastery xp and be at same level of xp ! 

[markus230]

8 minutes ago, Abufhad said:

but with warframe  a small number of people helped you with the game at the beginning  thanks to them, give them skins and never released it again. Why founders ahead of us with ranking up ? oh they have exclusive weapons ! not skins.

DE expected the game to die after a year, thats why they gave us weapons instead of cosmetics as it wouldn't be a big deal if game failed

Or thats because back then the only cosmetic items were Warframe helmets and weapon skins

[Stormdragon]

9 hours ago, markus230 said:

I don't think its possible. In order to have two weapons with different default skins DE would have to make them separate weapons and it wouldn't solve the problem since original Braton Vandal mastery would still be limited only to CBT players.

The only way it would work it is either changing the default skin of every Braton and Lato Vandal and then giving CBT players current default as a skin

Or giving everyone the same Braton and Lato as we have now, but giving CBT new skin.

I could get behind that since I could use sweet Vandal skin on Braton Prime.

But again, its up to DE, as long as the skin doesn't look half-assed Im okay with that

They can always make a new weapon, give it a similar name (rename original to "legacy X vandal" or something) and lock it away from cbt players. Both weapons would have the same stats, so nobody would care about a different name nor appearance, turning the new gun in a placeholder for non-cbt players and avoiding the so called "mastery issue" which in all honesty I don't care (I haven't even leveled archwing stuff, pre rework because of disliking the gamemode and now because of motion sicknes. I won't complain over 6k mastery I can't get while I don't even care about way more of it)

7 hours ago, markus230 said:

DE expected the game to die after a year, thats why they gave us weapons instead of cosmetics as it wouldn't be a big deal if game failed

I guess that should be reason enough for the devs to fix that mistake now that the game has lived way longer than they expected and for the players "affected" to accept whatever they can come up as a compensation.

Dunno, just some random thoughts anyways.

Edited July 19, 2016 by -----LegioN-----
Woke up and realized some fixes needed

[Lanadra]

3 hours ago, markus230 said:

DE expected the game to die after a year, thats why they gave us weapons instead of cosmetics as it wouldn't be a big deal if game failed

Or thats because back then the only cosmetic items were Warframe helmets and weapon skins

What I find very annoying myself is that despite the fact that the situation has changed that much, to the point where even DE admits the reasoning they used back then, namely the expectation that the game wouldn't last that long, has become invalid, they still are not re-evaluating a decision they made with the expectations they had back then.

The situation has changed, a lot, normally that would require someone to re-evaluate the decisions and choices they made, yet DE still stands by a decision that makes sense to very few now, a decision that gives people with those items an edge in mastery and equipment, considering that by now those very items have also been buffed to be in line with what other primes are, upgrades.

It's especially sour when you realize that by today's mechanics and standards, these founder items would have been weapon and warframe skins, rather then actually usable gear, yet they won't even do something about that.

Edit: My opinion is, if they are that steadfast in holding to their word, is that they should release Excalibur Umbra, obtainable for all, with the same stats as Excalibur Prime, and that the actual Excalibur Prime, should become an alternate skin for Umbra, the 6k mastery from Prime would be retconned and regained via Umbra, the Hunter and up Founders retain their exclusivity, while the rest of us are no longer held back in mastery and gear upgrades.

You could also make it so that those who had Prime, receive Umbra with Reactor installed and no farming required, while the rest of us farm him, as compensation for them losing Excal Prime as a gear piece.

I imagine they'd then do the same with Lato and Skana prime, problem then solved, the founders items will then have become skins, as they should have been.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[Zarozian]

On 7/14/2016 at 8:43 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Interesting point that maintains a meta-signifier of sorts.

You should probably buff them too then. Since meta-players would like something they can use. All the time.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

7 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:

They can always make a new weapon, give it a similar name (rename original to "legacy X vandal" or something) and lock it away from cbt players. Both weapons would have the same stats, so nobody would care about a different name nor appearance, turning the new gun in a placeholder for non-cbt players and avoiding the so called "mastery issue" which in all honesty I don't care (I haven't even leveled archwing stuff, pre rework because of disliking the gamemode and now because of motion sicknes. I won't complain over 6k mastery I can't get while I don't even care about way more of it)

I guess that should be reason enough for the devs to fix that mistake now that the game has lived way longer than they expected and for the players "affected" to accept whatever they can come up as a compensation.

Dunno, just some random thoughts anyways.

You just change the default skin to the new look and give the CBT players the original as an alternate skin.  That way only CBT has the original look.

[-Ryuurei-]

All for it myself, login rewards sounds like a hell of a wait but if I can getthe mastery I guess I can wait... Just add them by the time we're at 400 then... 

[Korion]

I'd love to see Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal return

[Fionntan]

11 hours ago, Abufhad said:

Took you 3 years to  vote on returning closed beta weapons ?  what about next time to put a vote on giving founders special perks and return Excalibur prime from Vault? 

so we hardcore players can get mastery xp and be at same level of xp ! 

Unlikely to happen since they are money tied and if released can result a can of worms(lawsuits) DE rather avoid.

Anyways, at some point we'll cap lvl 30 and xp won't matter as much. Plus we have Umbra Excal around the coner, as loophole to having Excal upgrade, which looks wayy better than Excal Prime imo.

 

As for question I vote yes, CB stuff was "gifted" so no money involved & no harm into release it.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Fionntan
Added my answer to vote

[Lanadra]

15 minutes ago, Fionntan said:

Unlikely to happen since they are money tied and if released can result a can of worms(lawsuits) DE rather avoid.

Anyways, at some point we'll cap lvl 30 and xp won't matter as much. Plus we have Umbra Excal around the coner, as loophole to having Excal upgrade, which looks wayy better than Excal Prime imo.

 

As for question I vote yes, CB stuff was "gifted" so no money involved & no harm into release it.

I can't think of any judge that would take it serious rather then laugh someone out of the courtroom for such a silly thing.

[(PSN)appretice]

8 hours ago, Artorius-Alter said:

What I find very annoying myself is that despite the fact that the situation has changed that much, to the point where even DE admits the reasoning they used back then, namely the expectation that the game wouldn't last that long, has become invalid, they still are not re-evaluating a decision they made with the expectations they had back then.

The situation has changed, a lot, normally that would require someone to re-evaluate the decisions and choices they made, yet DE still stands by a decision that makes sense to very few now, a decision that gives people with those items an edge in mastery and equipment, considering that by now those very items have also been buffed to be in line with what other primes are, upgrades.

It's especially sour when you realize that by today's mechanics and standards, these founder items would have been weapon and warframe skins, rather then actually usable gear, yet they won't even do something about that.

Edit: My opinion is, if they are that steadfast in holding to their word, is that they should release Excalibur Umbra, obtainable for all, with the same stats as Excalibur Prime, and that the actual Excalibur Prime, should become an alternate skin for Umbra, the 6k mastery from Prime would be retconned and regained via Umbra, the Hunter and up Founders retain their exclusivity, while the rest of us are no longer held back in mastery and gear upgrades.

You could also make it so that those who had Prime, receive Umbra with Reactor installed and no farming required, while the rest of us farm him, as compensation for them losing Excal Prime as a gear piece.

I imagine they'd then do the same with Lato and Skana prime, problem then solved, the founders items will then have become skins, as they should have been.

Or simply do for us non-founders what they're doing for global warframe to loophole around China warframe, take the same model and change the default color scheme and rename the frame. We'll be getting Excalibur Umbra while China got Excalibur Umbra Prime. The only difference being the name and the default color scheme. Why not give every non-founder the ability to purchase (not farm in-game because then founders will *@##$) an alternate version of Excalibur Prime and the lato/skana with a different name and default color scheme, loophole found. Pretty sure they just said they wouldn't re-release Excalibur Prime, but Ascendant Excalibur  with his Ascendant Lato/skana sounds like a distinctly different frame to me...

[Fionntan]

8 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

I can't think of any judge that would take it serious rather then laugh someone out of the courtroom for such a silly thing.

Honestly, even if judge laughs, folks have some ground to do it and doubt DE will want burn money on court costs even if it fails.

Better safe than sorry.

Also, I seen sillier cases taken seriously regardless of the topic, especially when money is involved.

To be fair, wanting founder gears is just as more silly; minor stat perks and cosmetic is all there is to it.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Fionntan

[(PSN)appretice]

10 minutes ago, Fionntan said:

Honestly, even judge laughs, folks have some ground to do it and doubt DE will want burn money on court costs even if it fails.

Better safe than sorry.

Also I seen sillier cases taken seriously regardless of the topic, especially when money is involved.

Yes but the only thing I can see a judge ruling against DE for is the return of any moneys paid in the agreement of exclusivity to any individual who argues the case, which even if all the founders filled for a return, it still wouldn't make a scratch in how much money they are pulling.

They would still likey make a ton of money from the whole ordeal if they did, because they would have a huge burst of plat sales or prime access sales for Excal Prime.

Edited July 19, 2016 by (PS4)appretice

[Fionntan]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)appretice said:

Yes but the only thing I can see a judge ruling against DE for is the return of any moneys paid in the agreement of exclusivity to any individual who argues the case, which even if all the founders filled for a return, it still wouldn't make a scratch in how much money they are pulling now.

Doubt DE are willing even it take "dent" in their money pot.

Also that is assuming it won't cost that much or they have lots moneys, which can turn out to be false to either point.

Edit: If does happen, where amount spent $50++, no doubt people will ask refunds; either from greed or need.

It kinda falls same as asking DE to host serves.... they swimming money so I wonder why they never invested in solid servers to host missions... hm....

So in short still same point: "Better safe than sorry"

Edited July 19, 2016 by Fionntan